Talk:27 Club

People Who Should Be Added

These are Celebs who died at 27 who should be added, given the peramiters of the page: Aaron Hernandez Thuy Trang Pat Tillman Harry Hains 2600:1702:1931:2420:5CB4:E43F:BA17:2B5E (talk) 02:26, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Mac Miller 69.130.1.204 (talk) 04:28, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes. Please, someone add this, please. I cannot update the graph properly!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Johnson 2001:5B0:235C:3F38:3903:6212:CE9C:BA38 (talk) 21:17, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Robert Johnson 86.1.0.214 (talk) 15:08, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

– Muboshgu (talk) 15:16, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

@86.1.0.214 He's fourth on the list. Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 22:18, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps King Alexander of Greece? I know his a king and not a creative celebrity but there is another king on this list, Ghazi of Iraq 2A02:C7C:7B32:1B00:4844:CF83:9C99:572C (talk) 08:58, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Can someone please add Li Tobler? She was an artist and the partner or HR Giger when they were young. She committed suicide at 27 2601:400:C380:280:499E:998C:7166:1F38 (talk) 19:29, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

The only source connecting Tobler to the 27 Club are a medium.com blog article we can't use because of WP:MEDIUM, and a comedy podcast called Y'All Heard which admits that she is not well known. Not reliable enough to list here. Binksternet (talk) 21:57, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Can you add Jacob Miller, lead singer of the reggae band Inner Circle? He has a page here at Wikipedia and died in a car accident when 27 years and 324 days old in 1980.

Can Paola Luz be added? She was a Filipina rock singer and photographer. She died due to adrenal gland tumor on August 28, 1991 which is 27 years and 168 days. https://www.philstar.com/lifestyle/sunday-life/2016/08/21/1615566/paolas-story — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ghostpurple (talk • contribs) 03:16, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 January 2024

I would like to suggest Paul Hunter is added to this list. Thank you. 92.3.252.49 (talk) 20:31, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 20:41, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 February 2024

Adding another member to the 27 Club bracket, specifically Pete ham - lead vocalist and guitarist of the band "Bad Finger". He died at 27 on the 24th of April, 1975, just 3 days shy of his 28th birthday. I just think because they're at least a prominent band, be should be here. Zombillions (talk) 18:35, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:42, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Actually, Pete Ham is already listed in the table of identified members. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 22:45, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Spelling should matter in an encyclopedia

Further to my belief that the tone of an encyclopedia should not be that of people sitting around a fire, drinking, and mulling over ideas and recollections, I believe that in the text QUOTE: Daughtry's song "Long Live Rock & Roll" from their 2013 album Baptized references the club with the lyrics "they're forever 27 – Jimmy, Janis, Brian Jones" UNQUOTE (which exists in this article at the date and time I'm typing this talk-page comment) should have the phrase 'Jimmy, Janis' changed to 'Jimi, Janis' if there's no basis for the opinion that the official lyrics really are 'Jimmy' there, and should be changed to 'Jimmy" [sic] ", Janis' if there IS a basis for asserting that the lyrics, despite 'Jimi' being correct, are officially 'Jimmy'.2600:1700:6759:B000:E894:BFCC:705D:880 (talk) 05:56, 9 February 2024 (UTC)Christopher Lawrence Simpson

@2600:1700:6759:B000:E894:BFCC:705D:880 Good point. The source used was from a unreliable source (user generated content), so the spelling was entirely unofficial and would appear incorrect. I've fixed it. It still needs a source cited though. Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 06:29, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Total Days

Because we reach 10,000 days in our lives at 27 years and 138 days (depending on leap years) I think it would be an interesting column to add. For example: Walkie made it to 9,991 and Kami made it to 10,002 and Dickie Pride made 10,018… I don’t know how to calculate that or how to add a column to achieve that. Torturella (talk) 19:41, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Not unless WP:Reliable sources discuss it that way. Binksternet (talk) 19:55, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 April 2024

Anton Yelchin (actor) - 1989 - 2016 should be included on this list. 2A04:4A43:4B8F:C54A:0:0:DE6:2162 (talk) 06:57, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

He already is.--Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 09:42, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Tone and fan-like tags

The reason I added the tags which were reverted is that the tone of this article is not encyclopaedic. For one thing there is numerous repetition of the term cultural phenomenon, it is even used as a section title but is not a suitable term for a serious article. The Identified Members section has a peculiar unserious tone such as "Because the 27 Club is entirely notional, there is no official membership." Overall this article promotes an urban myth that has been disproved by scientific research and therefore I'm tempted to nominate it for AfD based on WP:NOT despite it passing WP:GNG, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 20:38, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

@Atlantic306: Gee, I dunno. It seems pretty encyclopedic to me. And it describes an urban myth, it doesn't promote it. The Scientific Studies section explicitly refutes the idea that rock musicians and others are more likely to die at age 27, a refutation also mentioned in the lead section. And the statement about there not being an official membership is also sober-minded -- since the 27 Club is a "notion", the membership list in the article is based on third-party references. If the phrase "cultural phenomenon" is overused, feel free to improve the prose, or suggest how it might be improved. As for WP:NOT, I don't see how that would apply to the article. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 21:17, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

I won't bother with the AfD but I think it needs a rewrite imv Atlantic306 (talk) 22:33, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

@Atlantic306 What would you suggest instead of "cultural phenomenon"? If seems an accurate description to me, I also don't see what's unserious about the sentence. The very fact you're suggesting AfD makes me concerned that you've a misplaced idea about the purpose of Wikipedia. Just because something is a disproven myth does not mean it should not be in an encyclopedia. Notability is the criteria for inclusion.

The article is far from perfect, and does have issues (particularly list cruft), but I don't see anything particularly fan-like about it. Do you have any particular examples of anything being written from the POV of a fan? And a fan of who/what? Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 06:25, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Notability is not the only reason for inclusion otherwise we would just copy newspapers, which to some extent is happening here, see WP:NOT which lists many reasons for exclusion including Not Newspapers. I disagree with you about the tone of the article, the constant use of cultural phenomenon is promotional wording. Also the reason I came to this page is because it was being linked to the age of death of Chance Perdomo who has recently died which myself and other editors consider inappropriate. Also the references used to justify his entry are weak - a sensationalist story from a sports tabloid, and TV Insider, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 13:23, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

@Atlantic306 Are you sure you understand what phenomenon means? Also what occurs on the Chance Perdomo article is not the responsibility of this article.

The source used to this may be weak, and I have argued a number of times that creation of a list of "members" is not the purpose of this article. It should limit itself itself to pertinent and prominent examples only to illustrate the meaning of "the club". But this has been discussed a number of times here already, and we always end up with a list that grows over time. But that list is at least factual, not promotional. Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 20:37, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

From your link: "In popular usage, a phenomenon often refers to an extraordinary event. The term is most commonly used to refer to occurrences that at first defy explanation or baffle the observer." Considering the debunking of this myth by science it no longer should be considered extraordinary so a description of urban myth rather than cultural phenomenon would be more appropriate in my view, Atlantic306 (talk) 21:17, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

The cultural phenomenon is not that rock musicians (and other figures of popular culture) are more likely to die at age 27, or that a lot of rock musicians have died at age 27. The cultural phenomenon is that people often talk and write about the people who died at age 27, and refer to them as the 27 Club. And that sometimes they erroneously think that something strange is going on. With that being said, it is an urban myth -- or urban legend, perhaps? -- and the article does already say that. Still, it should be possible to improve some of the wording of the article. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 22:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

@Atlantic306 So you don't understand its use here. From the lead of that article: "A phenomenon , sometimes spelled phaenomenon, is an observable event". In this case, in western culture of recent times. I also note that the bit you're quoting is not supported by the source it quotes, which says nothing about cultural phenomena defying explanation or being baffling. The Cambridge Dictionary has real life examples here, this includes describing schools and the invention of pottery as cultural phenomena. There's nothing baffling about them.

It's not a perfect description, but you are mistaken in thinking it is promotional or suggesting it's unexplained. As far as "urban myth" goes, may want to read previous discussion on this. Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 00:12, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

I think this article is a mess and I don't like it

I'm really not a big fan of this article and how it's set up and what people's criteria for the 27 club is. The problem is, it's all up to people's interpretation what makes them part of the 27 club and I think that's a terrible bar to set for eager Wikipedia editors that just wanna validate their favorite artist, band, musician, whatever.

You've got artists on the list now that don't even have wikipedia pages. Four of them. That would be "Murda Killa," "Yoo-ju-eun," "Yung Trappa," and "Julian Figeroa." I'm terribly sorry that those people died so young and I'm sure they had their fanbases, but clearly they aren't even notable enough to have a wikipedia page or even a verifiable source confirming that they even died to begin with.

Also, the criteria for what makes someone part of the 27 Club is to me just backwards. You've got the king of Iraq (Ghazi of Iraq), a person who only even mattered to anyone because of nepotism and political hegemony and was by all means a tyrant (I've never heard a positive "spin" put on this guy by anyone, not even Iraqis). Then you've got on here a guy who was an "artist" named Dash Snow that, according to his article, made "collages with his own semen."

Do the right thing guys. Absolutely annihilate this article and only leave like, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Amy Winehouse, etc...Household names, not literal jagoffs that make collages with their own semen and get called an artist somehow. Emandudeguyperson (talk) 22:17, 11 April 2024 (UTC)