Talk:Samuel de Champlain

Yeah GO SAMUELFile:Ship1 ---

Maybe add some info about how he founded Acadia? --142.166.97.10 17:31, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

All i know is that it was the first fortified colony, and it was in a triangle shape. ~U will never know

Redundancy and odd formatting ( tiny notes )

Firstly, it is stated that, "No period portrait of Champlain exists." Soon thereafter is a second picture, captioned with "No authentic portrait of Champlain exists." Seems kind of redundant and unprofessional to me... Secondly, under the Early Travels subsection, "he lived before the end of the XVI^th century." Is there any particular reason that this is stated in Roman numerals? It's a bit inconsistent with the rest of the article, so far's I can find, and I'm not familiar with any standards of writing in which this would be needed... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.127.76.3 (talk) 17:45, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Vandalization

Someone just vandalized the page

AxyJo 21:07, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Never mind, I fixed it

AxyJothis was one of the forent contryes

and again, twice. I. raining girl 00:59, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

• Vandals to this page from April 1, 2007 through April 16, 2007. Refs after names are links to the change edits that support the vandal claim (I skipped at least one that was complicated that resulted in a date change 1567->1580 or visa versa)
  • four by 142.161.208.7 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) [1] [2] [3]
  • one by 63.117.244.62 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) [4] who also vandalized Bigfoot and Stockmarket
  • two by 208.114.180.244 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) [5] [6] who also only has done vandalism
  • one by 68.149.111.232 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) [7] who also only did vandalism
  • 216.8.139.39 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) [8] [9]
  • 65.94.249.169 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) [10]
  • 74.116.178.225 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
  • a three piece deceptive vandalism changing 1608 ot 1607 to appear as a revision by 74.112.168.48 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) [11] 3:[12] 2:[.org/w/index.php?title=Samuel_de_Champlain&diff=prev&oldid=120620421] [13] [14]
  • 65.95.141.171 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) [15]
  • 71.233.97.147 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) [16] [17]
  • 169.244.172.3 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) [18]
  • 74.116.254.133 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) [19] [20]
  • 72.1.206.114 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) [21]
  • 75.161.195.85 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) [22]
  • 24.71.124.178 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) [23] [24]
  • 72.137.219.43 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) [25]
  • 75.117.228.19 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) [26] [27] [28] [29] [30]
  • 68.145.177.79 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) [31] [32] [33]
  • and then we get into MARCH 2007 Jethero^Talk 03:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
• Reported to Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection#Current_requests_for_protection Jethero^Talk 04:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
• Made sure everyone listed above was welcomed with {{ip}} and warned with {{subst:uw-vandalism|Samuel de Champlain}} (or level 2 or 3 as appropriate). Jethero^Talk 04:54, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup

The overall content of the article is good, and the references at the bottom are nicely laid out. However, the article is largely just body with no clear introduction, it needs to be divided into some subjects. Ben Babcock 21:53, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks to Woohookitty for wikifying it. The sections make the page easier to read, and make it easier to find specific information about Champlain. Ben Babcock 23:42, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Father of New France

Samuel de Champlain is known as the Father of New France. I think this should be bolded in the lead section. Phoenix2 16:03, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Question

• Can someone please explain why this relatively innocuous page attracts so many bad edits? CJCurrie 00:31, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Much of the article looks like it was written by someone who is not entirely fluent in English. Could certainly do with some clean-up of its style. By the way, this is a terrible sub-heading title. --Iacobus 01:18, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment

I heard that Louis Aubert (I don't know the spelling) or someone from his family travelled with Champlain to Quebec. I just want to verify if this is true with someone. Rijaman 01:30, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

His name is Louis Hébert. The Hébert family is still with us today, so there must be something true about that story. ;-) -- Mathieugp 04:45, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Champlain's Date of Birth

There exists no documentation for Champlain's date of birth. Circumstantial evidence, however, indicates that he was born about 1580, not 1567 or 1570, as stated in the literature before 1978. Thus his achievements were those of a younger man than has been suggested in the literature, including the Doictionary of Canadian Biography.

See:

• Jean Liebel. <<On a vieilli Champlain.>> Revue d’histoire de l’Amérique française 32, 2 (septembre 1978): 629-39.
• Champlain: the birth of French America / edited by Raymonde LItalien and Denis Vaugeois. (McGill-Queen's University Press, 2004) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gemery (talk • contribs)

That's fine... sorry, anonymous IPs changing dates without any edit summaries sometimes get caught in a vandalism revert... please be sure to cite those sources in the article... - Adolphus79 15:50, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

There is now strong evidence that Champlain was born as late as about 1580. This is based on the now known year of birth of François Gravé, said Dupont or Pont-Gravé, 1560, and on what Champlain wrote for 1619 events about this Gravé-Dupont : (free translation) "His age would have given him to me as my father." — See the french version of this page for exact references, and for the table giving details about the military service of Samuel Champlain. As some other people, I will keep contributing before next July to the french version of Samuel Champlain page. Daubert (in french) 02:03, 5 December 2007 (UTC) — Daubert (talk) 17:18, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

This is rather flimsy "evidence". Why somebody must be 20 years older to be old enough to be respected as a father (that is what is written in the original French edition), but could not be 15 or even less years older but have an imposing appearance? Or did Gravé always wave his baptism certificate around? Besides, in the French Wikipedia somebody tries to ascertain that he was a sergeant in the French Army at age 15, but had already studied extensively navigation and cartography, rather precocious, I think, even considering that his uncle was a ship captain. I don't think it impossible he was a little older, maybe even 10 or more years, after an early seafaring childhood and youth trying a military career. Anyway, where are the sources for the 1580 birthyear? Or is it Original research? And what is the original source for the "ca. 1567"? which is given almost everywhere? Kraxler (talk) 21:10, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

The first source of Samuel Champlain "1567 birthyear" is l'abbé Pierre-Damien Rainguet's 1851 Biographie Saintongeaise (ou Dictionnaire historique de tous les personnages qui se sont illustrés […] : see pp. 140-141, or pp. 148-149 of these digital photocopies). This "1567" was very flimsy.

Despite Léopold Delayant (member, secretary, then president of l'Académie des belles-lettres, sciences et arts de La Rochelle) wrote (in 1867) that Rainguet "1567" year was proofless and wrong, l'abbé Charles-Honoré Laverdière, in his Notice biographique of the Œuvres de Champlain (1870), tome 1, pages ix à xj, uses a bad mathematical proof to agree with l'abbé Rainguet on the "1567": Laverdière affords only 10 to 12 years as age difference between Samuel Champlain et François Gravé (instead of 18 to 20 years), and he uses "1554" (instead of 1560) as Gravé birthyear, according to the de visu bad age estimate provided by the recollet brother Gabriel Sagard in 1623.

Everywhere, after, the "1567" was engraved or carved on every monument dedicated to Champlain, and written in every book containing the word Champlain.

In 1978, Jean Liebel wrote On a vieilli Champlain (They made Champlain older), in the Revue d'histoire de l'Amérique française (RHAF, number XXXII, pages 229 to 237), after a full examination of all the old and new sources, concluding that "1580" is a much better approximated year.

Nowadays, most of the historians agree with Liebel on the "1580". - 66.36.139.84 (talk) 19:43, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

You should add that Rainguet, Laverdière, and all their parrots, were wrong when evaluating the jobs of Samuel Champlain into the King Army (in 1595-1598): these jobs (fourrier, then maréchal des logis) are "horse caring jobs" at that time, not "nowadays sergeant jobs", and it was not requested to be major (aged 25 or more, at that time) to do these jobs; Laverdière wrote that Champlain began to be maréchal des logis in 1592, and that he had to be 25 years old at that time, thus being born in 1567 (1592 - 25 = 1567), what was to be proven !!

And you should also add that there was no public school at that time and that Samuel Champlain did not study latin neither old greek (unlike Marc Lescarbot did), thus having time, when young, to learn navigating, drawing maps,,, - 66.36.132.6 (talk) 03:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Intro. paragraph

"His travels have had the most lasting importance to World History." This last sentence in the intro paragraph makes little sense (especially if taken literally). Perhaps it was written by someone without English as their first language. Anyhow, I have deleted it. --Iacobus 01:14, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Portrait

If, as the article says, there are no authentic portraits of Champlain, why does it feature a picture which is ostensibly of him?

--Tex 19:18, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

It appears everywhere on the Internet. The Wikipedia reader is subtly alerted that it's an inauthentic portrait of him. Just trying to keep Wikiinformation better than the average, without stirring up loyal local reproaches. --Wetman 05:23,

4th desember 1612(UTC)

Legacy

I did add also that there is Champlain College in Burlington, Vermont as part of his legacy. Illuminati 10:59, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

His history

most likely he was born in the year 1570. In Brough, France. His dad and uncle are sea captions

His history

most likely he was born in the year 1570. In Brough, France. His dad and uncle are sea captions —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.170.198.80 (talk) 15:28, 18 October 2007 (UTC)