User talk:Pentawing

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Thanks. Pentawing 18:34, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Discussion archives: 1

U of M

I've looked at the opening. Please see my invisible comments in the edit box—claims need to be strengthened with harder evidence, although you might get away with presenting most of this evidence in a subsequent section. Can you avoid repetition of 'Ann Arbor' in the first sentence? Is there a neater abbreviation, such as UAA? Would be nice to use after first occurrence. I'll look at the rest when I get time. Tony 02:14, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

This article looks good, and you have fully addressed my comments on the peer review. The new photos are especially good, except for Image:UMHillResidenceHalls.jpg, which seems to actually be a picture of a field, with the halls almost impossible to make out in the thumb nail. I know little about the school, so I can't say much about accuracy, but it seems comprehensive. The article has a somewhat positive tone, which is almost unavoidable in school articles. One suggestion is to reduce the use of the word over. Rather than saying "over 24,800 undergraduates" say "about 24,800 undergraduates," it is more neutral, and also more accurate as "over 24,800" is an extremely imprecise statement. Maybe think of one or two negative things to say in the intro. - SimonP 03:41, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

A negative? Hmm... Maybe Michigan is too liberal? =p About Michigan as one of the top Us in the world, check this out. Another list is The Times Higher Education Supplement. Both lists have Michigan of Ppl Republic of A2 at Top 50. __earth 04:04, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm sure Univ Michigan is actually our UM. First, the word Univ Michigan there hyperlinks to UM A2. Secondly, it states Univ Michigan - Ann Arbor. There's only one U in Ann Arbor proper. About UM being too leftwing, maybe student life or student government. In 2004/05, it seems to me that the almost all of the Michigan Student Assembly were either democrat sympathizers or more left than that. __earth 04:48, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

I've no problem with 'over 24,800 undergraduates'—the numbers must fluctuate from semester to semester anyway. But don't write 'over'; write 'more than'.

In the opening sentence, I suppose you can't write 'The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor is a public coeducational university in Michigan, United States', can you? The name of the town could be linked on its next occurrence. It's quite clear that AA refers to its location, I'd have thought. Tony 07:07, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Alright, I gave it a once-over. Cheers. Tlogmer 06:36, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

About the image, I donno. I thought I placed it under CC-by-2.0. In any case, I've changed it to CC attribution. __earth 04:13, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Really pressed for time at the moment (editing jobs). Will try to fine time on the weekend. Tony 16:14, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I've done the lead and the history section; I'll do the rest later. A few points:

• The University's own websites seem to use 'U-M' with 'the'.
• There's slight confusion in my mind between 'the University of Michigan', the 'University of Michigan, Ann Arbor', and 'U-M'. Having introduced the abbreviation right at the top, it should be used wherever possible subsequently.
• 'faculty'—that may not be understood outside the US, so I've substituted 'members of staff'. Would 'academics' be better?
• You announce 'coeducational' at the opening, but then becomes clear that only men were allowed to enrol in the early stages. Can you make that clear? When were women first admitted? Perhaps at the top: 'and, since ?1879, has been coed...'.
• 'school' vs 'university' might confuse non-US readers.

See my inline comments.

Click here to leave me a message.

Tony 09:03, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Calling a university a 'school' is prevalent in North America and uncommon elsewhere. School is sometimes used to refer to a collection of departments in a field, e.g., School of Chemistry at the University of ..., comprising Departments of Inorganic, Organic, Theoretical Chemistry, etc. Tony 02:08, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have clarified it: I replaced the word with 'university'. Tony 02:19, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Pentawing, I've changed the ambiguous title 'Academics' to 'Teaching and learning'. The next title is no good, IMV: University activities include teaching and learning/academics. I think 'Research' deserves its own category (not subcategory) immediately after Teaching and learning, since research is prominent in the lead, and is a university's primary claim to high status. Then 'Libraries and museums' as a title. Kill off the 'University activities' title? Tony 03:23, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

The number refers to all members of the faculty, including non-tenured members. How should I word this?—Just say 'members of faculty', without 'regular' or 'tenured' as a qualifier.

The problem with 'Academics' as a title is that in the rest of the English-speaking world this term is widely used as the plural of the noun 'academic' (= university teacher/researcher); but you're referring to everything that the staff do (minus admin and research) and surely what the students do too. I guess 'Academic profile', if you really don't like 'Teaching and learning'. ('Academic activities' sounds bad).

It would be better not to nominate it until I've finished. Tony 05:08, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Structure much better (see above). I've finished; it's pretty good. One last matter: I'd LOVE you to delink all those low-value chronological item—see Wikipedia:Make_only_links_relevant_to_the_context. Then your readers will be more likely to hit the ones that DO count. Tony 06:57, 18 October 2005 (UTC) Click here to leave me a message.

I just want to say the UM article looks great, you've improved it a lot. I saw the message you left for me in September but I have been too busy with school to do anything with the article. Maybe next term I'll have more spare time. commonbrick 00:44, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

City infoboxes

Creating a standard template would probably be a good idea. It seems to me like the majority of city wiki pages want to include the city skyline image at the top of the page, and if the image is separate from the infobox, this can cause some pages to render rather weird, such as putting text from the first paragraph between the image and the infobox (depending on the width of someone's individual browser). So if the image is within the infobox, that would alleviate the problem.

One other thing about the Template:Infobox City that I'm not too satisfied with, is the text used. The size of the text is a bit smaller, compared with the other infoboxes used on some cities (see Louisville, Kentucky's infobox as an example of text size). I think increasing the text size a bit would also help the display as well. Dr. Cash 18:13, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Adminship?

Hi, you seem like the kind of editor we need as an admin. Level headed and well thought out. There is a fad currently on WP:RFA that a number of editors think people need a large number of Wikipedia space edits too, but I think you have enough to show involvement and demonstrate you can be trusted. You may get some opposition based on WP space edits, but don't stress it, I think your record will carry you well. If you're interested, spend some time reading through the Wikipedia:Administrator's reading list and let me know. I'll follow this, so you can reply right here if you like. - Taxman ^Talk 11:54, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Great Blue Heron

Hey, a non-WP question.

Hey, are you still in A2? If you are, do you usually passby School of Music? If you do, have you ever noticed a huge bird by the SoM's pond? If you have, is that bird is actually Great Blue Heron?

Just curious. Was browsing WP and I thought, I've seen this bird before at SoM's little pond.

Boston

Well the article content is ok, but there are some issues that need to be fixed. I would strongly recommend you to cut down on the text, the size of the city does not make a difference. I do not blindly apply the 30kb limit, but actually review it on a case to case basis, and in this case I will ask you to cut it down to under 30 kb before I review by summarising sections. I assure you the size will be more than 30 by the time you finish. If you don't cut it down now, it will shoot to 50kb plus. I'll review tommorow. Yeah, I'm mostly inactive, though I check my watchlist daily. I am more or less free on weekends though. User:Nichalp/sg 19:35, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

I hope you don't mind me using your user page for the review. You can move it to PR if you like.

• "Commonwealth of Massachusetts" this is something new to me and it initially didn't make sense. Is it possible to rephrase it to capital of the state, or more appropriately the commonwealth...?
• region known as New England --> add location: NE U.S.
• Encompassing parts of New Hampshire, parts of the states…
• have a variety of origins --> odd sentence try "Boston has a variety of nicknames" instead
• Same problem with AA on people's designations. John Winthrop's etc. Who were they? William Tudor might have been the king of England ;)
• Don't start a para with a left-aligned image
• you can move the BW history image a bit lower.
• "Boston is named after Boston, England, a town in Lincolnshire." modifiy to: "Boston in Linconshire county in England".
• 'Revolution (such as, text in parenthesis diverges from the topic. Embed in text instead
• rum, fish, salt and tobacco. unwikify
• Greater Boston, unbold, italicise instead
• Cambridge, and Charlestown are wikified multiple times in ==Geography==
• Under ==Demographics== again, do not begin with a left image. keep the image on the right, and move the table a little lower,
• The image on the Beacon Hill houses are in the wrong place, move it lower, after List of Mayors of Boston, Massachusetts
• A one line description on plurality voting?
• Sister Cities International, Inc. (SCI), avoid linking using this style. wikify instead.
• place the state-house image just after =State and federal agencies= right align.
• are footnotes 4,5,6 all necessary?
• See also: Major companies in Greater Boston, this should come at the end of the section. In general, {{main| comes after the title, and
  See also: explain-inote
  under the ==Reference== section.
• There's a category All-America city. Perhaps you could mention that award under culture.
• I've checked the content page size, its reduced and I don't have a problem with it. (31 kb raw content.). If there is a need to cut down text, look at the ==demographics== section. Some unnecessary figures can be pushed into a main article.
• There are nine red links, consider filling them up.

If you can fix these, I don't see any problem in getting past FAC. User:Nichalp/sg 11:30, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

• Convention centers, excellent addition to Boston. The national political convention in Boston (for the Democrats?) in 2004? Worth mentioning, for sure. Fg2 07:07, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I meant "blue" in the literal sense --- lots of blue links. Fg2 02:06, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

• You're right that MIT is no longer located in Boston. But the fact that it was founded there and was origianlly called the "BOSTON Society of Natural History" leads me to believe that it deserves at least a brief mention in that paragraph. --18.95.1.21 04:40, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I've fixed some issues: Three things need to be addressed:

1. Convert those gif images to png
2. See alsos have to be at the end of the section, not the beginning. Use main in the beginning of a section. Please fix.
3. That sports table makes the page look ugly, It should be converted to prose. User:Nichalp/sg 07:57, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

The addition is fine, but to compensate for this, the second paragraph of ==demographics== needs to be clipped. Consider having a Demographics of.... Well, a featured article should have prose, this is an encyclopedia, and the such kinds of tables are not used in any of the best articles of WP. FYI, I'd objected to Seattle during its FAC nom. AA was the only city I'd ever supported. User:Nichalp/sg 19:59, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• I'll do what I can, though I'm pretty busy. Anything that you'd specifically like me to work on?--AaronS 02:13, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• I've fixed a lot of grammar on the Boston page, and added a lot of information. 'Tis good. I appreciate your work on the page, and I agree that the 'History' should be a summary. In this case, the summary gave one no feel for the town. It was just a hodge-podge of facts. Now there is a narrative. The grammar has been improved. It is well on it's way becoming a featured article. Please, do everyone a favor, and do not not revert it. LuMas 04:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Very well-done, Pentawing. LuMas 18:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Yeah, give it a shot at FAC. User:Nichalp/sg 11:33, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Cleveland FAC concerns

Thanks for all your help so far. I'll fix that one external link as soon as I finish this note. Two things, though: (1) Do you think the neighborhoods section would be OK without a heading? and (2) When you refer to a "cityscape", though, I'm not sure I follow what you're thinking about. Do you mean a blanket profile of the city, or something else? Thanks -- PacknCanes 03:27, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

• Actually, as long as it doesn't substantially make the article longer (which I don't think it will), the cityscape section you describe is something that I was looking to include but couldn't find a good place for it. I'll edit it in, and remove the neighborhood heading to make the TOC look a little better. Thanks again -- PacknCanes 03:38, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

• Thanks for the kind words. And I greatly appreciate your thoughts on making things run smoother in the article -- maybe now I can get back on a regular sleep cycle. I won't be making Raleigh a FAC anytime soon (it's a long way from even being peer reviewed), but I'll start laying the groundwork for it and the Cities project will certainly help. Again, I thank you for all your help on getting Cleveland to featured status. Take care -- PacknCanes | say something! 12:37, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Boston, Mass.-Map request

Boston was on my list of to-do's, but I didnt know if the regulars would be territorial about it. One favor I'd like to ask, though- Please take a look at Minneapolis, Minnesota and St. Paul, Minnesota and add your two cents to the improvements page. I'd like to get them featured at some time. How did Ann Arbor fare? SoundGod3 14:53, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

• Yeah, I know it's Suffolk county. I did a map of Newark, NJ recently, which is in Essex county, and the name stuck in my head. Sorry. SoundGod3 16:02, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

moon

OK; it just looked a little forced—shouldn't need to brag about it to gain authority—but no big deal. Tony 04:34, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

How is it now? Tony 04:42, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Can I get your vote?

I have been nominated for an adminship and I was wondering if I could get your vote. If you feel inclined, please go to Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Alabamaboy and cast your "yes" or "not in a million years." Many thanks.--Alabamaboy 02:28, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

• Yes, I'm aware of the internal politics that are at work here at Wikipedia. Heck, that stuff happens everywhere. As I've become more involved in Wiki, the more I've wanted to be involved in the inner going ons here and I must admit that when someone approached me about being an admin this seemed like a good time for this to happen. Basically, I love Wikipedia and want to make sure that it has a secure future. Still, I don't think I'll get carried away with the politics here (that's not in my nature). However, I won't shrink from it either. Best,--Alabamaboy 19:28, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Pan Am

Hey, just wanted to let you know that I nominated Pan am for the frontpage. I hope you're ok with it. Being an airline enthusiast, and PanAm being my favorite Airline, I thought it'd be great on the frontpage. PRueda29 07:21, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Bounty Board

Greetings. You've recently been involved with working on get articles up to featured status, so I wanted to let you know about a new page, Wikipedia:Bounty board. People have put up monetary bounties for certain articles reaching featured status - if the article makes it, the bounty lister donates the stated amount of money to the Wikimedia Foundation. So you can work on making articles featured, and donate other people's money at the same time. If this sounds interesting, I hope you stop by. – Quadell ^{(talk) (bounties)} 22:21, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

RfA

Hi Penta

I thought I'd alert you to the fact that User Redwolf nominated me for adminship last week, which I accepted. Regrettably, this has coincided with a stouch with several huge egos whose FAC I helped on and then critiqued after my they'd trashed my entire contribution. I normally shun conflict, but here, I'm emersed in it, and I feel utterly destroyed. One of the protagonists appears to be drumming up support for his cause on other people's talk pages.

If the nomination fails, which appears likely now since the voting balance is borderline, I'll be trashing my personal page and not returning: it's just too embarrassing and unpleasant to go on.

So, if you have the inclination, the war zone is at: [1]

Thanks

Drumming up support

Hello, Pentawing. I'm not here to take issue in any way with Tony's message above, but I couldn't help noticing your response, where you refer to "The fact that one of your antagonists is going about convincing others of their case against you". When you make that assumption, I do feel I have to appeal to you: please take a moment to click on my contributions, Gianos contributions, and Tony1's contributions, and a glance will show you which of those three people is actually going about drumming up support on talk pages. I'm not trying to drag you into this conflict, please don't be uneasy, don't even feel you have to reply. Bishonen | talk 03:01, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Response to you

Hi Pentawing,

I see that Bishonen has interceded. She's regrettably one of the chief protagonists, flying over me like a vulture. I don't quite know why she bears such a strong grudge, but geez it's some kind of sport for her, I think. The vote is not looking good, so I'm already arranging to kill off my user page after Monday, in the probable event of rejection. Funny thing is, admin duties are really inconsequential in the larger scheme; now, the issue is that WP is going to lose a valuable and hard-working contributor (he boasts) - I couldn't possibly stay after the public pillorying I've received: it's all too embarrassing and unpleasant. What was fun has turned into utter distress.

So, vote if you please, or not; maybe it won't make a difference.

Thanks, nice to communicate with you.

Tony 03:56, 29 October 2005 (UTC)