Talk:America (disambiguation)

Pointless Question Already Answered In A Recent Debate But Which Wikipedia Requires Me To Ask Anyway

FDrom Wiktionary:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/América

AMERICA IS A CONTINENT. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.12.14.66 (talk) 17:05, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Is the United States the most common usage of the term America. This is not an attempt to move or redirect this page. I thought we all agreed America most commonly refers to the US in the move/redirect now in archive two. However I am asking this again anyway because needs consensus for any moves, "should the United States" and not "The Americas" be on the top?

In fact, more pointedly: Can anyone cite one published instance where the term America alone is used to mean the same thing as the Americas without further explanation (which excludes reference works)? The point of this question is to get at whether English speakers actually can and do understand America to refer to the Americas without any additional explanation. I'd like to see an example of that. --Tkynerd 14:54, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, "Columbus discovered America" returns 76000 gHits [1] and the first unambigious use of "America" to mean "the Americas" I get off JSTOR is here [Stable URL: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0361-5413%281990%2917%3C113%3ACFGTA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-2] Columbus from Guinea to America P. E. H. Hair History in Africa, Vol. 17 (1990) pp. 113 - 129

Look, I detest the use of "America" to mean "the Americas" as much as the next guy (probably more) - but it is real. For what it's worth, I'd prefer to see the States listed first, the Americas listed second here as well. WilyD 15:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Though published recently, isn't that a historic usage? (i.e. in reference to a historic voyage termed that way hundreds of years ago) Joie de Vivre 15:13, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Although I should be studying for my qualifier, I'm a nice guy so I dug up this: [2] Additional Neotropical Tremellales B. Lowy Mycologia, Vol. 67, No. 5. (Sep. - Oct., 1975), pp. 991-1000. and this: A Key to the Nymphs of the Families of Hemiptera (Heteroptera) of America North of Mexico Jon L. Herring; Peter D. Ashlock, The Florida Entomologist, Vol. 54, No. 3. (Sep., 1971), pp. 207-212. [3]

For which one is this an example? It seems they wanted to say North America minus Mexico, but that would be too awkward... In any case, I'd also agree that the US reference should probably be on top. --Cheers, Komdori 15:41, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

For which what is this an example? These are two examples of "America" used without explanation to mean "the Americas" in modern literature which avoid the suggested problem of Joie de Vivre that it might just be a preserved archaic usage. WilyD 15:55, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I wasn't sure if you meant the America North of Mexico as an example for it or not... I understand your point now, although I still suggest it's because the term "North America without Mexico" or "Continental US plus Alaska and Canada" sounds too awkward, not because they used America alone. The other example has other issues--even though it's Brazilian/Venezuelan in origin, they still qualify America not with the traditional North or South, but "tropical," as a way to clearly show it's not referring the US. --Cheers, Komdori 16:26, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know that that's true. United States and Canada is hardly as awkward as "America North of Mexico" - I doubt Bermuda or Greenland really entered into it. And I think you're also wrong about the "tropical" qualifier. In the "America = United States" model, "Central America" = Costa Rica et al, "central America" = Nebraska et al, "South America" = Bolivia et al, "south America" = Alabama et al. It clearly thinks Venezuala and such are part of "America". WilyD 16:47, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't want to be seen as being overly picky, but it seems the authors did not use US and Canada since that might imply Hawaii, Puerto Rico, etc., and the article wants to focus on the region of North America sans Mexico. Since there are no "tropics" in the US, "tropical America" serves as qualifier enough; the word America doesn't appear anywhere without such qualifier. I'd be more comfortable with saying the word "America" is used in the English speaking word alone to refer to the Americas about as often as it is used to refer to the US if we could find even a few clear-cut cases, rather than the millions that were pointed out in the rm for the other usage ("God bless America", "America online," "Amercia the beautiful," or even "American flags," "American government," "American history," "American literature," etc.) --Cheers, Komdori 18:03, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I might add the corresponding "American" disambig page which suggests the equality of usage of American to mean "resident of the Americas" as "resident of the US" is at least as dubious as the suggestion that America is used for Americas as often as the US. --Cheers, Komdori 18:06, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

The second point is definitely false. American = of the Americas is a more common usage (AFAIC) than America = the Americas is. The latter has obvious modern usages all over the place - Organization of American States - the Office of American Imperialism not the least among them. WilyD 18:15, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, you are probably right that there are many more cases of American meaning of the Americas than America meaning the Americas. In any case, my fault for bringing up something knid of off topic--I guess I should have brought it up over there; if people have thoughts on it, maybe they should check that article out, too. --Cheers, Komdori 18:57, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, I think everyone should take a look at American History. BH (T|C) 16:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

No worries - it's not particularly off topic - and a more global understanding is always worthwhile - in the end, don't worry quite so much about being on topic

I don't think specialized scientific usage qualifies for what I was looking for when I posted my question. This isn't an encyclopedia for specialists; it's for general readers. If someone can post an example of this usage in English in a publication intended for a general audience, that will be much more relevant. --Tkynerd 17:25, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

It seems to me the whole people proposing the United States to be on top for "America" are the US Americans themselves. Have you heard about Amerigo Vespucci? Sometimes it even seems like "North America" is for US Americans the US without Canada and most of Mexico. --Periergeia 10:22, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

This definitely isn't the case. North America in it's most restrictive is Canada + America (and probably unstated but including Bermuda, St. Pete and Mickey and Greenland, provided the speaker knows they exist). And as a denizen of Soviet Canuckistan, I'd rather see related to America above related to the Americas - I just can't be bothered to care much. WilyD 13:10, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

The Monroe Doctrine has often been summarized as "America for the Americans". And it is clear that America means the whole continent in that phrase (what is sometimes debated is the intended meaning of "Americans" in the same phrase). Calin99 18:21, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

-- 82.123.140.167 12:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC) The term America refers to the United States in English languages only, and is not very NPOV; just a matter of tradition.

This is an English Website. Why would it not suit the reader to see United States when they type in America? This seems like pushing an agenda with a childish attack on very common colloquial speech. Anyone who speaks English uses the term "America" for the United States of America. Otherwise they would type in Canada or Mexico and such. Come on now. The very NPOV you attempt to address here is being reversed and becoming more NPOVish with this stupid argument.

America = United States in most people's speech. Enough said. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.187.250.74 (talk) 04:32, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

The term "America" is used (in my experience) interchangeably in both some forms of UK and Hiberno-English to refer to the continent of North America and the United States. It is rarely used to refer exclusively to the United States Of America outside of North America. When debating this point, please bear in mind that while the English Language is used in numerous places around the world, American coloquiallisms are not. Has anyone agreed to what dialect of English we're supposed to be using? Is it in the style guide? :) Caspiankilkelly (talk) 17:24, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

If America doesn't mostly refer to the Americas by a large margin (and it doesn't - to the contrary, it mostly refers to the U.S. in modern English usage), then it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to guess that the U.S. link here is clicked more often than the Americas link, as the U.S. article is enormously more popular than the Americas article. The traffic stats for the last month give 1424430 views for the United States and 73775 views for the Americas. There would have to be a reason why a much higher proportion of those who look for the Americas come here than of those who look for the U.S. to make the Americas link get more clicks. Such reasons may exist though - there are more links to the U.S. article than to the Americas article, for instance. But still, this looks like a safer guess than the other way around. -- Coffee2theorems (talk) 16:57, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Listing the two American continents

Joie de Vivre asked in that editor's last edit summary if listing the division of "the Americas" into North America and South America was necessary on this disambiguation page. I think that it is: as some users may not be familiar with the term Americas or with the use of America to describe both North America and South America. -Acjelen 14:30, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I think it's misleading without the inclusion of the alternate subdivision into North America, Central America, and South America (and sometimes the Carribean), so it probably should be left out. Perhaps the recently added Western hemisphere gives adequate context. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 14:37, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Which would just open the floodgates to transporting a whole article into a disambiguation page. "Western Hemisphere" seems like a good qualifier - although I'd listen to alternatives. WilyD 14:45, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Hello. I agree with Acjelen. I also believe we should keep it as simple as possible, i.e., Western hemisphere, with just North and South America; otherwise, we open the floodgates to adding any number of other Americas to this entry. Quizimodo 16:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

As I pointed out, I believe that adding North and South America "opens the floodgates". Western hemisphere seems adequate. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 17:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

North and South America are continents - and those are what is referred to together as the Americas. I believe they should--Keerllston 02:34, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Quizimodo and Acjelen that North and South America should be left in, as not everyone outside of North- and Southamerica knows what The Americas means. Central America could be added, but I'm not 100% sure, as it is not a continent on its own. --Mdebets (talk) 12:54, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

America is America

Typing in the word "America" should automatically send you to this page United States of America. What is up with the Americas and all that other stuff? If they type in "Americas" then that one can go the continent, but America is America. I've never heard anyone in English saying "I'm from America" if they are not from the US. Please make the neccessary arrangements so that Wikipedians may find what they're looking for faster and easier. Thank you, (209.7.171.66 15:33, 16 August 2007 (UTC))

Typing in "America" should NOT send you to the United States of America page. America is the whole continent. A person from Manaos, Brazil is as American as one from Atlanta, USA. The fact that there are very many English-speakers who call America only the USA, it does not make it right at all. This problem has to do with the unfortunate lack of education in the USA towards the rest of the world. So, to make it short. America is the entire continent, from Alaska all the way down to Chile and Argentina. Keep in mind that by the time the name was given, it was actually focused on the southern lands, given that the British colonies arrived some time later than the Spanish and Portuguese conquerors. 00:16, 21 October 2008 (GMT+1) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whoffmannm (talk • contribs)

I'm from Mexico, wich is in America, the continent.--81.37.148.27 14:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

That's not the point. The point is whether fluent English speakers would ever say "I'm from America," and ever mean anything other than "I'm from the United States." For a fluent English speaker, "America" without any further qualification, DOES equal the United States.65.77.101.63 (talk) 22:04, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

No, that's the point, the word "America" is not only used in that stupid sentence "I am from America", that's why a regular U.S. citizen perhaps thinks... America is a continent, that's why there are 5 circles in the Olimpics game logo morons... Because there are 5 continents, one of them named America. If you want to say that you are from the U.S. say it like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.196.126.189 (talk) 23:21, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Two Words- "I agree" New England ^{Review Me!} 15:39, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

"America is America" is a statement both sides could make. How would I know if the anonymous user meant the United States or meant North and South America when he or she stated "America is America"? I half suspected someone asking for Americas to be a redirect and that article here, but I see it is the counter position. All the more reason in my mind to keep the status quo. -Acjelen 18:15, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

"America is America" is a statement both sides could make. But in English, only one of them would be right. In English, "America" in the singular unambiguously refers to the USA. Even though dictionaries offer "the Americas" as an alternative definition of "America," I am fairly widely read in English and I have never seen "America" used that way in English (although see the thread above where I ask for a published example -- but then, see my comments in that thread as well). The English Wikipedia should reflect actual English usage, not what some people think English usage ought to be. At the absolute very least, the "USA" meaning should be first on this dab page. --Tkynerd 00:27, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

you should read this article WP:BIAS 200.74.80.18 17:49, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

You waste your time. This same discussion was made several times. This article will be left unchanged in the end. Oh, and I personally disagree with the America is USA thing. --Shadowy Crafter 00:27, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

If it is brought up several times, that should show you that there is something wrong with it. If you are a native English speaker, you know what "America" is. And this Wikipedia is written for English speakers so put 1 and 1 together, and please make the neccessary changes. (74.134.127.92 00:05, 29 August 2007 (UTC))

Maybe the fact that this is being discussed should show you that something is wrong with your assumption that America is USA. I may agree that most English speakers think in US when they read/hear the word America but, as somebody wrote earlier, America is America, and its north, south, and central areas are (respectively) North America, South America, and Central America. Calin99 14:45, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

The United States of America are only The united states of America, its not America. America is North and South America together. Can you be more selfcentered? Chandlertalk 10:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

That's the way to talk, dude. Xhandler --190.40.72.137 01:25, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm English & I'm not slow to complain about the American bias of Wikipedia.

Wait! Did you see what I did there? I meant US, didn't I? But because I'm speaking English I didn't need to explain.

An article I read today: [4] It interested me because it shows just how natural it is for (native) English speakers to use America meaning US. Eg US is used 4 times & America 23 times.

This says to me that this debate is political & not about NPOV.

Dyaimz 22:03, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I asked about this matter to 3 of my university teachers: My political science teacher, my history teacher and my philosophy teacher. They ALL agree that calling "America" to the USA is wrong. And I agree with them. America is America. And America is the ENTIRE western hemisphere.--Shadowy Crafter 16:12, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

It really seems that there are certain people in the Wikipedia community who don't have a clear understanding of English. The Americas refers to the continent, but in singular, the word America is shorthand for the US. Please let's not make this an issue of where you live, or what you would like the page to be. On a pure factual basis, in the English language, America only refers to the US. This is universally accepted by all major media, including CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, BBC, Deutsche Welle, TV5, TV Africa etc. Many of these networks are based in different countries, but they all have programs in English and they all use America interchangably with the United States. Please consider it without a bias. Thank you, (209.7.171.66 21:47, 25 October 2007 (UTC))

I think that when people say "Columbus discovered America", they do not mean "Columbus discovered USA", they really mean whole continent. Or "The American continent", it does not mean to USA. I really wonder why US people call USA to America and how this began. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.148.100.50 (talk) 09:25, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's not quite the case that "America" in English refers only to the English-speaking areas south of Canada. After all, Columbus "discovered America", didn't he? However, I agree with your basic point, since in almost any other context I can think of, "America" is not ambiguous. I don't really understand why "The United States of America, a country in the Americas" is listed second on this dab page, since it is clearly the dominant usage. However, it doesn't seem terribly important, either.—Nat Krause^{(Talk!·What have I done?)} 15:59, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

America was the name given to the New continent discovered by Columbus, after some years the name was taken by the USA because they couldn't take a name of their own. I think it is good that both options are open at wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.166.136.118 (talk) 19:21, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

America was the name given to the New continent discovered by Cristopher Columbus, after some years the name was taken by the USA because they couldn't take a name of their own. I think it is good that both options are open at wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.166.136.118 (talk) 19:18, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

America the Continent

America was considered one continent. Before the Panama Canal the Americas, North America and South America, were actually just "America" - If you look at the naming of the Country - you'll see an alternative was calling it the "United States of Columbia" - Which also refers to the continent discovered by Columbus or Vespucci.--Keerllston 18:27, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Email opinion : in Costa Rica, America doesn't mean US

Here's an email from someone who believes strongly that "America" should not be construed as [globally] referring to the US. I've encouraged him to respond here directly.

> Hi Wiki...
> 
> While looking for America, i encounter this:
> 
> "Use of the term America may be ambiguous, as it can
> refer to either this entire landmass or just the
> United States of America." -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas
> 
> I do not agree with that since, i live in Costa Rica -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_rica - Wich is a
> Country in central America. and here in my country and
> most of the rest of America Excluding the U.S.A and
> CANADA, we call america as a CONTINENT not a country.
> 
> Please can you change a part of that paragraph, since
> not all ppl consider America as a Country...
> 
> indeed its important to us to remeber and know AMERICA
> just as a continent, giving the term the flexibility
> to also refer to U.S.A, is to desacredit the others
> nations living in the continent.
> 
> so please i will fell happier if you could change that
> part of the article to:
> 
> "Use of the term America may be ambiguous, as it can
> refer to either this entire landmass"
> 
> it will give to all of us, residents of AMERICA more
> neutrality :D
> 
> THX

-- +sj + 23:04, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

"Pronounciation"

You must include the proper IPA:pronounciation of "America" in your Articles including that/and "Ah"-merica pertains to it's Continent and/that "A"-merica pertains to the "U.S.A." Intuitionz 01:17, 21 September 2007 (UTC) Что не понимаете?? ну и я вас тоже —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.186.171.6 (talk) 13:25, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Also, The Americas are "in" the Western hemisphere and not "of". Intuitionz (talk) 03:48, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

america is my one of the best country thankyou —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.201.83.188 (talk) 10:00, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Sources for Definition of America

The CIA Factbook is a reliable source for many things, but it is not an authoritative source for English language use. English is descriptive rather than prescriptive language meaning that there is no academy that decides what is and isn't correct. Most authorities that write books "describe" common usage as guidelines for grammar and usage. I am reverting the recent edit that states that America often incorrectly refers to the United States. You cannot make an edit and say that any changes are considered vandalism. Here are my two sources:

American Heritage Dictionary: 1. The United States. 2. also the Americas, The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America

Random House Unabridged Dictionary: 1. United States 2. North America 3. South America 4. Also called the Americas. North and South America, considered together.

The most common use in the English language for the term America refers to the United States, and that is the reason that both dictionaries give the United States as the first definition. This is not just American English, as people in the UK refer to The U.S. as America as well. This is hundreds of years of English usage whether it's right or wrong; it just is. Kman543210 (talk) 11:45, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a dictionary, and (per disambiguation guidelines) sources do not need to be added to each disambiguation entry. The linked articles fully elaborate on the topic matter. 69.158.146.81 (talk) 01:30, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

You are correct; however, when people constantly dispute the simple definition of "America" referring to the United State and change the disambiguation page, I felt it necessary. People continually added "incorrectly" refers to the United States. Kman543210 (talk) 01:35, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

That still doesn't justify nonconsensual addition of references to what is essentially a placeholder, contrary to guidelines. As it is now, the second entry (for the US) refers back to the former (for the Americas); conversely, adding "mostly in North America" to the 2nd entry (while not factually incorrect) introduces yet another notion. Thus, keep it simple. The articles Americas, American, etc. expand on the issue: I've added some. And if various editors disagree with what is arguably common knowledge regarding this, they should be and will be reverted on the spot. Thanks. 69.158.146.81 (talk) 01:41, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

It looks like we both can agree that adding "mostly" to the North American part was unnecessary (the editor that added this did so on the basis that Hawaii wasn't on the mainland). I do think putting in "North America" is more specific than just "the Americas". I was the one who personally put in the references, not because I thought they needed to be there, but because there was an editor who insisted on a certain version stating that any reverting would be vandalism. By putting in the references, it seemed to stop the controversy...apparently not though. Kman543210 (talk) 02:53, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, if we were to note that the U.S. is in North America, the rationale to include "mostly" is sound and I would support it. However, despite the truism of the assertion (which a glance at the article 'United States' will reveal), it is probably better to not note that it is in North America for a similar reason: a glance at the archives reveals endless back-and-forthing about what the Americas entry should indicate also: North/Central/South America, etc. As well, the U.S. is also a part of Anglo-America, and by saying it is in the Americas covers off any number of interpretations. Keep it simple, and not be so specific as to re-open a can of worms: relevant articles elaborate adequately. And if someone is going to believe that it is incorrect to equate America with the US (and, despite it being common in English, it may cause offence to some -- see Americas), they are probably not reasoned enough to edit in a balanced way anyway. (If we must include 'mostly in North America', though, we don't need the references.) 69.158.146.81 (talk) 03:32, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

This page is so politicized. That's the only explanation I can think of why "America" doesn't lead to USA. I wish Wikipedia would release stats on how many people click on the USA link when they get to this ridiculous placeholder. --149.159.3.161 (talk) 15:51, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, and your commentary doesn't help: consult any reputable English compendium (an encyclopedia or dictionary, like here) and they invariably indicate that 'America' may be used to refer to the 'Americas' or the 'United States'. 216.234.60.106 (talk) 16:01, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with the disambiguation page because it truly does have two meanings. Two different dictionaries I consulted both have the U.S. listed as the primary definition of the word which means that is the meaning that is used most. I do think it's weird how people who are not native English-speakers object so much to it. I personally never use America in place of the U.S., but people from other English-speaking countries such as the UK and Australia also use America for the U.S. (not sure about Canadians). The thing I object to is putting "incorrectly used to refer to the U.S." on the disambiguation page, which is why I originally added the two citations that have been removed. Kman543210 (talk) 16:12, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

The disambiguation page is fine as is, I think. I also object to the 'incorrect[ly]' text, and will remove that if I see it again: it is not 'incorrect' because someone believes it to be. The above dictionary (Merriam-Webster) lists 'the Americas' sense before the U.S. one, but I wonder if it lists entries in chronological order. Anyhow, this doesn't necessitate addition of any citations to this page (since we would also have to add the M-W one above, and maybe others): articles (should) already do that.

As well, regarding Canadians, see this section and first subsection. 216.234.60.106 (talk) 16:23, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Description of United States

OK, I'll admit this seems like a stupid topic to require a discussion of, but there has been persistent edit-warring by certain editors over it, so we need to try to reach a consensus and stick with it. The issue is the wording of the second bullet-point on this page: editors have gone back and forth between versions 1, 2, and 3 below; versions 4 and 5 are additional alternatives. Please state one preference and give reasons in the appropriate section below, and add any further comments in the Discussion section. --Russ (talk) 10:00, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Prefer Version 1

Version 1: The United States of America, a country in North America

• Ambivalent: more specific, but neglects that the state of Hawaii is not in North America, but in the Pacific Ocean in Oceania (viz. Polynesia). Also fails to consider that the U.S. may be reckoned in Anglo-America, Northern America, or whatever other region of the Americas. 69.158.144.108 (talk) 14:00, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
• Hawaii isn't in "the Americas" either, so most other versions lose information without adding accuracy. So why? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:34, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Arguably, Hawaii is in Anglo-America, since one of its official languages is English. 69.158.144.108 (talk) 02:00, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
    • By that argument, so is New Zealand. But Hawaii is not by any useful definition, part of the American continents. We can add mostly if it helps. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 02:39, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
      • There's a difference: one is a part of the U.S. of America (politically), the other isn't and part of the wider Anglosphere. The addition of 'mostly' may work. 69.158.144.108 (talk) 08:31, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
• I like this Version, despite Hawaii is not located in the Americas, however the United States article says that The United States of America are situated mostly in central North America, and such description avoid the Hawaii location problem. JC 19:34, 8 October 2008 (PST)
• Support-gives the long-form name of the country and a very short, specific, and accurate description. Kman543210 (talk) 01:28, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Prefer Version 2

Version 2: The United States of America, a country in the Americas

• Preferred, as it circles back to first entry (the Americas) without introducing another notion regarding (a region of) America (i.e. North America). More inclusive, as it allows for inclusion of U.S. in Anglo-America etc. Arguably, also neglects that Hawaii is not in North America but in the Pacific Ocean in Oceania (viz. Polynesia). 69.158.144.108 (talk) 14:00, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Prefer Version 3

Version 3: The United States of America

• Anyone with enough education to be able to read Wikipedia in English is certain to know what the United States of America is; the purpose of a disambiguation page is to direct the reader to the relevant article, and this version is all that is necessary to achieve that purpose. --Russ (talk) 10:00, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
• Mild preference: too minimalist, perhaps indicating a degree of Americentrism; if this version holds, then 'The Americas' must also be as simple. 69.158.144.108 (talk) 14:06, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
  • However, is acceptable if 'The Americas' is also simplified. 69.158.144.108 (talk) 01:57, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
• Strong support. This version is more than enough to disambiguate between the two senses of America, and moreover, is the earliest version used at Wikipedia.--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:38, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
• The version is sufficient to identify the thing in question. For what it's worth, I think The Americas would be sufficient for the Americas, since it identifies the item in question to any reader. WilyD 15:52, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
• Strong support, and echoing Russ that no one arriving at this page could conceivably need it further explained to them what the United States is. Regarding the Americas, my mild preference would be to leave it with the brief explanation of the term as it seems conceivable that a non-native English speaker could arrive here and not know the term. I don't really see the point of insisting that further description be used for neither or both but not just one, unless someone hopes to thereby symbolically achieve parity of meaning. Also FWIW, I would leave the present order on the grounds that simply alphabetizing the list is better than arguing over primary meaning. CAVincent (talk) 01:20, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
• This description is sufficient for any reader, matches the name of the country as well as the article linked to, has no correctness problems, contains the word "America" (the title of this page), and the relevant information stands out well so you can find or disregard the link at a glance depending on what you came looking for. Quite the obvious choice. -- Coffee2theorems (talk) 16:03, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Prefer Version 4

Version 4: America (country) or the United States of America

• There are adequate redirects that match the disambiguation phrase that should be used, with no description needed. America (US), America (USA), and America (United States) are also available. -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:36, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
• I'm inclined toward this version, as it uses the dab term in the bluelink. As a matter of style, I think I would prefer America (country), the United States of America, but I'm not that hung up on it. :) --Tkynerd (talk) 12:39, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

  When using redirect X with target Y, I usually use "[[X]] or Y, a thing of this description", with the description optional. But I'm also not hung up on it, just not hung up on the other side. -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:59, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

  If it were America (country) or the United States of America, a country in North America or something similar (I like those appositives!), I would have absolutely no objection. Is that sort of thing what you were thinking? --Tkynerd (talk) 01:16, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

• Object: unclear, and many common publications indicate the multiple uses of America (see talk page) 69.158.144.108 (talk) 14:06, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

  What's unclear about it? There's one article linked (clear), it's identified as the United States of America (clear), and no claim that there aren't multiple uses of "America" is made -- indeed, this would be an entry on the disambiguation page, so it's clear there are multiple uses (clear). Also, please don't add new option in the middle of the list. If you have another suggestion, add it to the end of the list. -- JHunterJ (talk) 17:15, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

  Why even have this option, as opposed to option 3? By indicating X or Y, there's a possibility it can be misconstrued, as if they were different and mutually exclusive. If someone hasn't browsed Wikipedia before or does so infrequently, this rendition would probably lead to confusion. So, unclear, unclear, and unclear.

  As well regarding the addition of options, I concede moving it only out of amity: but, it has been placed in the article before. Nonetheless, given that this poll was concocted by one person without demonstrated input, its results may not be inviolable. 69.158.144.108 (talk) 01:56, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

  This option instead of option 3 because the linked redirect matches the disambiguation; see WP:MOSDAB, esp. WP:PIPING. I'm unaware of anyone ever misconstruing the synonym construct on dab pages as a mutual exclusivity, but if that's the issue, we can use Tkynerd's suggestion America (country), the United States of America. -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:04, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Prefer Version 5

Version 5: The United States of America, a country of the Americas

• More preferred, as it circles back to first entry without introducing another notion. Doesn't necessarily deal with notion of Hawaii (e.g., 'of' as opposed to 'in'). 69.158.144.108 (talk) 14:00, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

• If Version 4 is preferred, I would suggest changing the first bullet-point to "America (continent)" for consistency. --Russ (talk) 13:02, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

  Since the Americas are not a continent, and America (continent) is likely to be confusing to English readers, that suggestion is not acceptable. WilyD 15:53, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

  I agree -- Americas would be preferable to either America (continent) or Americas (continent). If really desired, America (supercontinent) might be created to fill that niche, but I think Americas is suitable enough. -- JHunterJ (talk) 17:17, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I mostly prefer and voted for version 1 (The United States of America, a country in North America) because I've noticed that most entries in disambiguation pages have a short description; however, I am not opposed to version 3 (The United States of America). I do oppose any description that just says in or of the Americas, as the U.S. is not located anywhere in South America. So version 1 is my first choice; version 3 is my 2nd choice. Kman543210 (talk) 01:36, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I find this a difficult point of view to understand. After all, saying that "Louisiana is in the United States" does not imply that Louisiana is in all parts of the United States, saying that "France is a country of Europe" doesn't mean that it's necessarily in Eastern Europe, and saying that I'm in my house doesn't imply that I'm in all rooms of my house at once. Thus, the United States can be said to be "in [or of] the Americas" just as Argentina can be said to be "in [or of] the Americas." --Tkynerd (talk) 02:35, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Linguistic Reasoning

I am new to Wikipedia, but as a linguist, I think I can shed some light on the subject. Indeed, America was the name originally applied to all the lands of the New World because they were considered a single continent. However, in the 21st century most of the world (minus many latin cultures such as the Spanish and the Portuguese) consider North America and South America separate continents. From a practical stand point, it would be quite strange to refer to two continents by a single name, principally "America," and their inhabitants by a single denonym, "Americans." Also, considering ambiguity, the United States of America is not the only country to have been called the United States. In fact, in Spanish the official name of Mexico is Estados Unidos Mexicanos yet they refer to their northern neighbor as Estados Unidos. Is their not inconsistency? I must also point out that the word "America" does not exist in every language, either refering to the USA (not the Union of South Africa:-]) or the New World. In Chinese the US is Meiguo, meaning "Beautiful country." Are there not other countries that are beautiful? And in Vietnamese, Hoa Ky, meaning "Flower Flag." Does the Stars and Stripes look like a flower? My point is that regardless of antiquity or definitions in other languages, America in its unqualified self is indubitably the USA in the English language around the world. Just consult Fowlers.Usonano85 (talk) 00:36, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I might add that The United States of America is the only country that carries America in its official name. Or is there another one? Well the Confederate States of America, but that's history--Ratzer (talk) 10:12, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

A continent has more importance than a country, it doesn't matter if 50% of wikipedia lives in the US

When I think of America, the only thing that pops up in my head is the continent. Why is that? Because I don't live in the United States. In most of the world (and in all if America, except for the US) the word America call a continent, not a country. Until I stumpled on this page, I had never heared the term The Americas, that just doesn't sound good.. Its not only more important to call America the continent instead of a country, but far more important. I think the Americas should be moved to America, with maybe a notice on top for possible the US. --Fixman^{Praise me} 18:19, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

This argument has come up many times, and suffers from the fatal flaw of being demonstratably false. It might behoove you to review the archives of this talk page. WilyD 18:50, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

It's not false, and it's in the name "The United states of America", all the other un-unified states and countries on the continents are also on america. I was at least taught in school (and I'm guessing many others) that the landmass on the western hemisphere is called America, and it can be divided into the two continents North and South America. It might be the custom in north america that "America" only means those 50 united states and other territories, but in other places it can differ. — chandler — 21:07, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

It is false. In most of the world, America is unambigiously the United States of America. Among anglophones, this is probably universal. This is simply the English-language name, it's no different than en:London and fr:Londres. WilyD 21:10, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sitting here making things up just so you know. The only reason people have started to call the USA for only America is because the country doesn't have a "real" own name, it has only taken "United states" of "the only continent we currently exist on" If they had had states in Asia or Africa as well it would probably be called the "United states of America and Africa". I don't think the London/Londres example makes any sense in what you're trying to get through, I'd say a better is what have started to happen sometimes with Europe/EU, I've seen mistakes when people refer to "Europe" when they mean the EU. Which is a similar case imo — chandler — 21:23, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but WilyD is correct. In English, "America" refers almost universally to the United States. --Tkynerd (talk) 05:10, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

It might be if you're from North America, but not all over the world. — chandler — 10:45, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Most anglophones live in North America, of course, but "I am from America" as an unqualified statement in English is known to be identical to "I am from the United States" everywhere in the world. The point seems to be confused a bit by native Spanish speakers with incomplete grasps of English and probably deliberately confused by American Imperialists, but this is a fairly minor subset. WilyD 11:53, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

It also apparently is the case, per earlier discussion, that scientists sometimes use "America" to refer to the Americas. This usage is very limited in scope and is not the way the term is generally understood by English speakers. --Tkynerd (talk) 15:52, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

However, America refers to the Americas in most other languages. --Fixman^{Praise me} 21:59, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

True or not, that has zero relevance for the English Wikipedia. --Tkynerd (talk) 00:33, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Is this serious Wikipedia? America is NOT the usa, no matter how much you would like to believe it.

And the continent is not called "The Americas". It's called America, period. That's why you say "United states of America". Of America. They are in America, just part of it.

I have a high respect for the Wikipedia, but this kind of usa-centristic articles makes me loose my confidence in it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.12.101.154 (talk) 20:53, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9800E3D81539E433A25753C1A9629C946196D6CF

You want more proof?

In that link you'll find information on WHY America (The Continent) was named America.

This article should go to America(The Continent). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.12.101.154 (talk) 01:30, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

This is the English Wikipedia. In English, there is no continent called "America." There are two continents, "North America" and "South America." America in English refers to the United States. --Tkynerd (talk) 16:15, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I have to agree that in English there is no continent called America, it is always split in two. Its the same in Britain, America, Canada, Australia and India - which covers most of the world's english speakers. In all these countries America is almost always used for the country. This isn't a case of Anglo-American nationalism, its just a convention in English.

I definetly think this should stay as a disambuguation page, though - I came here looking for a battleship. Lord Cornwallis (talk) 20:15, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

The fact that other meanings for a term exist doesn't necessarily mean that the main page for a topic should be a disambiguation page. If there is a primary topic, as I would assert there is here (the United States), then either the article on that topic should be here, or this page should redirect to the article on that topic. Other meanings would be handled with hatnotes. --Tkynerd (talk) 17:53, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

This is a somewhat "diplomatic" solution to the issue, but United States is probably where it ought to be (or United States of America, but not here), Americas is where it ought to be. A slightly less preferred solution according to the MOS for what ought to be a redirect but where we can't really prove it conclusively or anything, and where it's not totally bizarre, is not the end of the world. WilyD 18:35, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

If you want to blame someone for the ambiguity, it's George Washington

The first President of the United States gave that name to the country. This is why, inevitably, America is referred by US citizens as the United States; now, how do I know that, you ask? Remember, he drafted the first Constitution for the US. I think this would be included in the article, (or in this one, on the section about the term's usage). It's just a recommendation of mine, it's OK if you don't find it useful.--201.210.55.128 (talk) 18:28, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

"Americans"(stateans/unitedians) are very arrogants

The terms America and american not is exclusivity only of ONE country, because pertence of all americans(south americans and north americans)!!! The USA is arrogant and geocentrist/etnocentrist!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.71.77.13 (talk) 08:11, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

• Blatant appeals to racism are perhaps not the most convincing argument. I've known some Americans, and they can be quite nice people, eh? (At least, they probably exhibit the field rate of being arrogant and ethnocentrist.) WilyD 18:37, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

In English, an American is a citizen of the United States of America, a North American is a citizen of North America, and so on. Thus, a Chilean is not an American, but a South American. Ejnogarb (talk) 04:14, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Not true. Look in any good English dictionary/enciclopedia. And note that America is the name of the landmass in the Western Hemisphere (regardless of the question whether is one or two continents). So any South American is also an American. Calin99 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:18, 4 March 2009 (UTC).

Not true. Live in an English-speaking community and you'll find that "America" universally refers to the United States. There are occasional exceptions, primarily in scholarly use (which is why dictionaries cover that usage), but in general usage America=United States and American=related to the U.S./from the U.S., period. PS "Stateans" and "Unitedians" are not English words. --Tkynerd (talk) 04:13, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Summary of America = United States of America

"America" should be directed to the "United States of America" and "Americas" should be directed towards the continents. The only country whose name contains the word "America" is the United States of America. Furthermore, its citizens are called Americans. The worldwide consensus is that an American is a person from the United States of America. Ejnogarb (talk) 04:11, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Way to take things into your own hands without seeking a consensus... People from the USA are US Americans, the world doesn't circle around the USA, so go ahead and revert your move — CHANDLER#10 — 04:39, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Nobody in English-speaking countries thinks an American is from anywhere but the United States of America. The majority of people who read this English article will be from these countries. Stop pushing your own agenda. Ejnogarb (talk) 15:06, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Whether you like it or not, there are people who use the term "America" to mean the continents; it is not the primary or most common usage, but it does exist. It is used fairly commonly in biological literature, for example. The term is ambiguous and the disambiguation page is appropriate. Editors should refrain from trying to make other people's usage of a word fit their personal predilections. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 16:12, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

America usually means either:

America usually means either:

1) The Americas

YES: Lawfully, The Americas are recognized Continent-Wide through every government in America and worldwide as "The Continent".

2) The United States of America

CORRECTION: "America" is slang for The United States of America, and does not posses any legal doctrine stating The United States of America is "America". Please refer to "United States" in shortform.

There is no lawfull country named "America" recognized by any government in the world, even in the U.S.A.

Therefore, The United States of America is merely just slang and complete disambiguation to the article and should be removed by lawfull terms of "America" worldwide and local.

American(Can) (talk) 13:25, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia has little interest "legal doctrine", but is rather more concerned with actual usage. What you are refering to as "slang" is the single most common usage in the entire world, therefore its inclusion here is not only appropriate, but absolutely necessary. Doc Tropics 17:14, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

If Wikipedia has little interest in legalities, then it is subject to criminal activity in misleading the public.

American(Can) (talk) 19:03, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Please review our policy regarding legal threats. While your last comment wasn't an explicit legal threat, it certainly leans in that direction. Doc Tropics 19:11, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) -- SEWilco (talk) 19:15, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

My point is, if it's not legal why add it? I'm not making any legal threats, i'm just emphasizing the fact that why should we include something that is not legal into Wikipedia? I say this for the protection of Wikipedia and not to harm Wikipedia!

American(Can) (talk) 20:01, 22 March 2009 (UTC)