Talk:International recognition of Kosovo

PLEASE, DON'T ARCHIVE AS ARCHIVING IS AUTOMATICALLY DONE BY A BOT!

Solomon Islands

What can we deduce from this? [2] (Solomon Islands immigration requirements.) Kosovo is listed as a country (or territory) whose nationals require approval before entering the Solomon Islands. Is this de facto recognition? Interestingly, Serbia isn't mentioned at all. Bazonka (talk) 16:14, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Like you said it also includes other territories. So it won`t say us anything interesting.Max Mux (talk) 16:58, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

But the non-sovereign territories listed are those that (I believe) issue their own passports. If anything, I think that this indicates recognition of Kosovo's passport. Bazonka (talk) 17:04, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Could be. But kosovothanksyou.com has nothing yet about it.Max Mux (talk) 17:09, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Solomon Islands voted for the Serbian resolution at the UN. I'd expect Palau to recognise but I don't understand what happened with that.--Avala (talk) 18:10, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

That doesn't mean anything. Norway voted for it, but recognized Kosovo early on. Montenegro voted for it, but recognized Kosovo the very next day. --alchaemia (talk) 18:22, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Odd as it may sound, it's fairly common practice for countries to accept passports from states that they don't recognise, as we've seen with Kosovar passports in the case of Morocco, Georgia, Thailand, etc. The Republic of China passport is almost universally accepted even though only 23 countries recognise the ROC. That the Solomon Islands lists Kosovars as requiring a visa indicates tacit recognition of their documents but not of the Republic of Kosovo, per se. It's all legal hairsplitting, but diplomats love this sort of stuff. I wouldn't read any more into it than is on the webpage. All the same, I have sent an email to the Solomon Islands authorities enquiring whether they have recognised the passport or not. Yes, I know that "original research" is considered evil and heretical on wikipedia, but I'd like to know! I will share any reply I receive. Canadian Bobby (talk) 19:17, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Bobby, I also sent them an email. So as this means that your research is not "original", we should be OK. :) Bazonka (talk) 19:41, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I think I have a scoop! I've received a response to my email from the Solomon Islands Director of Immigration, Jeffrey Deve. It reads:

Dan,

In response to your email:

1. Solomon Islands recognizes the independence of Kosovo

2. SI recognizes the passports of Kosovo

3. SI Govt recognizes the political status of Kosovo

4. but unlike other independent states, Kosovo Nationals would still need approval prior to their departures to SI, unless the Minister responsible for Immigration removes Kosovo from the restricted list by an Order under the appropriate Immigration Act.

We hope this answers your questions.

Thanks.

Kind regards

Director of Immigration

So there we are. Of course, some would consider this to be original research. However I can forward the email to anyone who wants to see it. Bobby, did you receive a response too? Bazonka (talk) 19:53, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Sadly, they did not answer me. I detect rank favouritism ;-) Canadian Bobby (talk) 23:41, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

When did they supposedly recognise Kosovo? If it wasn't in the last few days (and news still traveling) then this sounds like some confused public servant. Anyway we need an accessible source and a date in order to list SI. --Avala (talk) 22:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree that we definitely need an official confirmation and some more details. I am energetically pursuing this through my own source. Canadian Bobby (talk) 23:30, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

We need a reliable reference if we are to update the article. Ijanderson (talk) 00:08, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

That's interesting. I haven't heard anything in Kosovo media about possible recognition from the Solomon Islands. --alchaemia (talk) 00:38, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

It wouldn't surprise me if they recognised ages ago, but just didn't tell anyone. Bazonka (talk) 07:11, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Did you email him back and ask if they're going to make an official statement? Did you hear anything from the kosovothanksyou guys? Canadian Bobby (talk) 11:45, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

No, I'll reply to the email tonight. Nothing on the Kosovothanksyou website yet. I'm at work (slacking) and can't check emails at the moment so I don't know if they've replied. I'll let you know. Bazonka (talk) 11:58, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Please solve that soon. We should write to other embassies as well, especially those who have not yet issued any statement.Max Mux (talk) 20:08, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Kosovothanksyou have sent me an email:

Thank you for this information.

We contacted the Mission of Solomon Islands to UN in New York, but they rejected these claims by saying that "Solomon Islands don't have a formal position about Kosovo yet..", and that ".. we are waiting on ICJ decision".

Howver we are still trying to confirm this by their authorities.

So perhaps the Director of Immigration was wrong. Bazonka (talk) 23:07, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Well that's certainly odd. I guess the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing (saying). --alchaemia (talk) 03:25, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

We should try to get informations about other countries over themMax Mux (talk) 19:12, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

It's clear that we can't use the Solomon Islands source as evidence that they have/haven't recognised, but I think it's safe to use it as evidence that they accept the Kosovan passport; and this has been confirmed by the Director of Immigration who ought to know about that sort of thing - if not about official recognition. Verifiability not truth. I've therefore added something to the article. Bazonka (talk) 09:57, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Czech Republic to de-recognise?

According to Serbianna (which can hardly be classed as the home of unbiased journalism), Czech Republic is to initiate de-recognition of Kosovo. [3] Is there any truth to this, and if so, how can we record it in the article? If true, it certainly should be mentioned, but there is currently no facility in the article for adding notes to the countries that have recognised. (A suggestion - rename the "Status of reciprocal diplomatic relations" column to "notes" and use that.) Bazonka (talk) 19:01, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

It's not true. Canadian Bobby (talk) 21:29, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Funny how no other portal/newspaper/ has picked up the alleged words of Voitech Filip. Serbianna is alleging that he says this, but there's no mention of where, how, and for what reason. --alchaemia (talk) 22:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

They have not yet learned the Five Wss:-)Balkanian`s word (talk) 22:52, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

It does not say that Czech Republic will initiate derecognition, it says that Vojtěch Filip (whom they misspell in the usual Serbian custom) will initiate it. This is just the Bolsheviks seeking attention in their usual way. Any MP can propose anything they want, that does not mean that the proposal will get anywhere. As for veracity of the source, I did not find it reported in any Czech media, but that does not necessarily mean that it is bogus. Czechs generally don't give a damn about Kosovo or its recognition, so it could be unreported simply because of lack of interest (and it is also possible that Filip gave interview directly to Serbianna, though I would find that a bit odd). — Emil J. 11:06, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Apparently the report may have come from Tanjug[4], and was also reported by International Radio of Serbia[5]. Considering that Klaus was against the recognition of Kosovo, and it was basically only Topolánek (and co) who were in support of it, this indeed may become a hot potato in Prague in the future. --Russavia ^Dialogue 15:24, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

the Vice President told a Frankfurt daily paper − solid journalism indeed... --DaQuirin (talk) 17:19, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

OK, so this may well be speculation or propaganda, but if a reliable source is found for this (or for similar future situations), how do we report it in the article? (It is not something to be ignored.) As I said in my original post, there is no place in the article's current structure to record notes about countries that have recognised. Bazonka (talk) 17:52, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

We should wait until a government official of one of the 56 or so states comments on the issue of "de-recognition". --DaQuirin (talk) 18:04, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Obviously that would be best, but we have reported news of recognition or refusal to recognise based on lesser sources. Why should de-recognition be any different? (Of course any source needs to be reliable though.) Bazonka (talk) 18:26, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, you are forgetting that these are Serbian sources, so their original language of publication is likely to have been Serbian and then translated into English, when words can be lost in translation. It's a common occurrence in all media. --Russavia ^Dialogue 18:54, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

You miss my point. I accept that these sources are not usable. But hypothetically, if they were usable, how would we record the information in the article? Bazonka (talk) 19:11, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

My comment above was actually to DaQuirin. But anyway, as to these sources, they may be usable, but perhaps not in this article, but perhaps within Czech Republic–Kosovo relations? --Russavia ^Dialogue 19:47, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

One could (theoretically) open up a section on the whole "de-recognition" debate. Do we have any relevant material so far? I don't think so. --DaQuirin (talk) 17:26, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Unless Czech R. actually makes such a move any information regarding de-recognition should go to Czech Republic–Kosovo relations. The main opposition party made such statements during the recognition times, that they would de-recognise and the communists endorsed the idea but unless it actually happens it has no place in this article. If it happens it should be dealt like Taiwan or Sahara articles by adding a section for countries that once recognised but no longer do so.--Avala (talk) 20:46, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

There are rumours about de-recognition since the first recognition. We should stop paying attention to this pure propaganda lies. These are people who lost connection with reality long time ago and not worth to be mentioned. --84.56.237.2 (talk) 08:00, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Well websites like Kosovothanksyou.com are used on this article so there is no reason why Serbianna.com couldn't. But right now this is all speculation. I have been saying this for a long time... the first nation to withdraw recognition will be the Czech Republic, but this will come after the Social Democrats and Communists win the next election, which looks like it will take place in October. So until then we can't really add anything about the Czech Republic to this article. --Tocino 22:16, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Kosovathanksyou.com has sources, Serbianna does not. That's about it, really. As for the Social Democrats and the commies winning the election... they're not a coalition, so that's not going to happen. They may win a slim majority of votes, but the commies are shunned and avoided by every party in the Czech Republic so good luck with that. --alchaemia (talk) 05:36, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

You are factually incorrect on multiple fronts. Serbianna has sources as evidenced by the article just posted. It doesn't simply make up things out of thin air. Secondly it's not only the Czech Communists who fiercely oppose independence. The Social Democrats do, junior partners of current governing coalition do, even part of the main governing party itself does. Finally the Communists don't have pariah status in Czech. The right wing government will try to play the red card, but like in Cyprus, it's doomed for failure. The Social Democrats realize that getting into government will be the most important objective after watching this disastrous Topolanek administration, and this time they won't turn down a party which gets 10-15% of the vote. --Tocino 06:08, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Serbianna had even a headline "Turkey hints at de-recognition" [6]. That's of course just desinformation, by distorting a comment from the Turkish ambassador. It's simply not to be taken very seriously as a news site. Kosovothanksyou.com is an opinionated website, but gives some useful links. --DaQuirin (talk) 10:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

The Communists pretty much do have "pariah status" so far in Czech politics. All other parties refuse to form government with them, and it's no wonder given that the Czech Communists are hard-line Stalinist bastards. However, it cannot be excluded that Paroubek, in his infinite lust for power, will change this policy. In any case, the point is that the minor parties in the Parliament are not really tied to the Civic Democrats, they can easily go to coalition with the Social Democrats after the next election. (The Christian Democrats for sure as they have participated in all but one government since Czech independence, no matter left or right. The Greens will probably do the same, as they have essentially no other chance than to go with the flow if they want to influence the politics at all, and they do not consider themselves right or left either.)

So, all in all I agree that there is a good chance that the Social Democrats will indeed form a government after the October election, and then it's perfectly possible that they will de-recognize Kosovo. It is unlikely to happen before the election, but it cannot be excluded either. (The responsibility to recognize countries is solely with the government, and the government will not de-recognize on its own will. It is, I guess, possible, though quite nonstandard, that the Parliament would pass a bill ordering the government to de-recognize, indeed the intention of doing just that is the only way of interpreting the alleged Filip statement which makes any sense of it. Whether such a thing would go through in the Chamber of Deputies is impossible to tell in advance, almost any vote is pure lottery in the current 94:97:1:1:1:1:1:1:1:2 situation in the house. However, IIUIC it would also have to be passed by the Senate, where the Civic Democrats are very strong, and therefore likely to reject it.)

Back to the point, I agree that we should not update the article based only on such vague speculations. If the government derecognizes Kosovo, or if the Parliament orders it to do so, rest assured that we will learn it immediately from solid reliable sources.

I also mention that I still did not find the Filip quote on Kosovo mentioned in Czech press, despite other recent Communist press releases like [7], [8]. This is, I think, quite telling of its (un)importance. — Emil J. 12:49, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

A slight aside - does anyone know what's happened to New Kosova Report? Their homepage is blank and all links to other pages are dead. It's been like that for a few days now. Have they gone bust/been shut down? Bazonka (talk) 11:27, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

It seems to be back up now. — Emil J. 11:59, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

For the record, the reference I listed was the Ministry for Kosovo and Metohija of the Republic of Serbia, NOT some portal called Serbianna. New Kosova Report used to write all sorts of lies, such as "Greece will recognize Kosovo", while Greece was repeating that they will never recognize Kosovo, and you seem to consider that portal "reliable". But when it's a government Ministry in Serbia, then it has to be "desinformation" or "propaganda". Is any source that suggests something countering the mainstream thought on Kosovo really worthless? --Cinéma C 19:23, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Might I add, if policy suggests that Embassy openings are to be announced before they are open or officially approved (for example, the "Embassy of Kosovo in Prague, to open." is listed in the article, while it is common knowledge that the President of the Czech Republic refuses to send a Czech Ambassador to Kosovo, meaning that it's very questionable how an Embassy can function without an Ambassador) I ask why is it "heresy" to simply list that de-recognition has been suggested, not by some portal or news agency, but by a very high-ranking government official, the Vice President of the Czech parliament. --Cinéma C 19:32, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

The Vice President of the Czech parliament is not a very high-ranking government official. He is not a government official at all, he is just a member of parliament, representing the Communist Party of Bohemia and Moravia. Colchicum (talk) 22:03, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

You are totally confused. The embassy to open is the embassy of Kosovo in Prague. Klaus has nothing to do with it. On the other hand, the embassy of the Czech Republic in Priština is already open (since July 2008), despite Klaus's refusal to authorize an ambassador (more precisely, the government did not even try to name her to preempt Klaus's refusal). The embassy is lead by Janina Hřebíčková as a chargé d'affaires, which does not require Klaus's approval.

Second, as Colchicum already pointed out, Vice-president (orig. místopředseda, more usually translated as Vice-speaker or Vice-chairman[9]) of the Chamber of Deputies is a rather phony title with no real power. (There are five of them, by the way.) The only real function of Filip is that he is the leader (formally, Chairman of the Central Committee) of the Communist Party of Bohemia and Moravia. What he says can be taken as the position of the Communist party, not of the government. — Emil J. 10:57, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

The head of an embassy doesn't have to be an ambassador, it can be lead by a chargé d’affaires, e.g. the Austrian embassy in Pristina (which opened months ago). Gugganij (talk) 20:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I am aware of that, I was trying to simplify my argument by saying "Ambassador". The noted President's stance is for any Czech official going to Kosovo, not just an Ambassador, and it is the President who approves that. --Cinéma C 21:53, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

You don't have an argument to simplify, as the charge d'affais is in Kosovo already, and no approval was needed from Klaus. And might you admit that you're dead wrong when you say that Filip is a "very high-ranking government official"? alchaemia (talk) 00:23, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

First of all, the Czech liaison office in Pristina was upgraded to an Embassy because Kosovo was recognized as a country by the Czech Republic. The head of the liaison office is not a charge d'affairs, as there is a diplomatic procedure by which a charge d'affairs is sent to a country, but was given that name because the Czech government had no other way to go around the President who would not appoint someone from the Czech Republic to be sent there, as the procedure requires. If you don't believe me, read Article 63, section e, of the Czech constitution in which it states that the President "accredits and recalls heads of diplomatic missions". Technically, as the President does not accept Kosovo as an independent state, the Czech charge d'affairs is only that according to those who like to call it that, not according to the Constitution of the Czech Republic.

Second of all, even if you personally don't consider Filip Voitech to be of any importance, I'm sure you'll accept that the President and the Constitution of the Czech Republic are of great importance to the issue. --Cinéma C 01:34, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I think we have a case of failed reading comprehension here. A charge d'affairs is a semi-temporary person in charge of the Embassy until a leader for the Embassy is found/sent/accredited to the country he/she is being sent. As such, a charge d'affairs is very much a charge d'affairs as no accreditation is required for staff who are not Ambassadors. Second, Klaus can keep talking all he wants, but he has no say in who, where, why, when, how the government recognizes. To recognize a state means to recognize its status as a sovereign state and to act as such in relation to that state. To establish diplomatic relations - weather at embassy level or not - is purely an administrative thing, and many states recognize each other while not having diplomatic relations or not having representation of any sort in most of the states they recognize. For example, Canada does not have an embassy or consulate in Kosovo, but that doesn't mean that Canada doesn't recognize Kosovo. It is this small, but crucial detail that you fail to grasp leading thus to baseless "arguments" that make no sense. As for Filip, he's merely an MP from a pariah party that everyone shuns - and one that has a pretty small number of MPs to begin with. It's precisely Filip and his party that cried wolf when the government recognized and so far we haven't seen mighty Filip do anything about it.

And to top it off, today the Czechs reiterated that recognition is done and over with and that there's no turning back. I'm sure you know how to use Google Translate, so here you go[10][11] --alchaemia (talk) 01:52, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

First of all, I don't need to use Google Translate, I get the gist of it (I can understand Albanian), and second of all, we were not debating here whether the Czech Republic has recognized Kosovo or not. Everybody knows that the Czech Republic has recognized Kosovo, so please stop presenting the debate as if you're trying to convince me of that. What I was trying to point out is that the Czech Republic has not established full diplomatic relations with Kosovo, and that it is possible to de-recognize it, as a government official has pointed out. Since most parliamentary parties are against the recognition of Kosovo, if someone, who has the power to do it, says he or she will initiate de-recognition in parliament, that's a pretty significant thing. If you'd like me to respect your Albanian news sources, I'd really appreciate it if you respected non-Albanian sources, be they Czech or Serbian or whatever.. That's all. --Cinéma C 04:38, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

1). You don't have Czech sources. 2). Your Serbian source is a propaganda website that is pretty worthless (Serbianna? Come on). 3). I wonder why Vreme or B92 or even Danas haven't carried this piece of fine "journalism". 4). The establishment of full diplomatic relations is not conditional upon the accreditation of an ambassador. Diplomatic relations between Kosovo and Estonia were established a long time ago, yet neither Kosovo nor Estonia have ambassadors or diplomatic representations in each others countries. 5). Please learn the difference between a) recognition, b) diplomatic relations, c) diplomatic relations at an ambassadorial level d) what a charge d'affairs really is. Until then, this conversation is pretty much over. --alchaemia (talk) 05:28, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Do you have me confused with someone else? I didn't post a Serbianna source. I believe I posted a source called the Ministry for Kosovo and Metohija of the Republic of Serbia. You're really violating WP:AGF here, as I'm expressing my concerns about what is happening in this article, and you're closing the conversation because I do not share your point of view. I don't even think you understand what I'm saying here, and merely twisting my words and making me sound like some imbecile who doesn't know anything about international relations. If there is a source, that claims the following: "Filip said that he will initiate the withdrawal of recognition of Kosovo, which is, according to him, legally possible because the procedure of its full recognition in Czech has not yet been formally completed", you can add that "However, on March 31, 2009, the spokesperson of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Czech Republic, Zuzana Opletalova, denied any such "de-recognition" moves and reiterated the official Czech position that the recognition of Kosovo is a finished and irreversible act" (which you did), but that doesn't make the first sentence go away, now does it? There are different opinions on this issue and the moment someone raises a voice against the mainstream pro-independent-Kosovo thought, everyone jumps and screams "Propaganda!" and "Lies!"... Well, just calm down, and try to understand that I don't want this article to promote anti-independent-Kosovo though, but I do want every article on Wikipedia to be neutral, and present all views equally. Assume good faith, Alchaemia, nobody here is your enemy or bent on propagating anything, OK? --Cinéma C 06:42, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

CinemaC has a point - this is notable, and we do have a Serbian government source reporting it [12] (NB it uses exactly the same words as this other source [13] that references Tanjug). Obviously this is not as good as a Czech government statement, but we have used more tenuous sources in the past. I do not see any harm in saying that this has been reported, particularly if balanced by the Opletalova quote as above. My original question of how we actually record this information in the current structure of the article remains unanswered though. Bazonka (talk) 07:26, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

People why are you still discussing it here when there is no section of this article that could deal with this information? Please take it to the Kosovo - Czech R. relations article.--Avala (talk) 09:50, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Because there should be scope for recording this information - it's certainly relevant to the subject matter. It is not unthinkable to alter the structure of the article. Bazonka (talk) 10:35, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Once we have "something" - what about the mysterious "Frankfurt daily" being the source according to the Serbian government (!?) - we can go on with the discussion. Up to now, it's just baseless speculation. --DaQuirin (talk) 14:16, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention that a mere MP cannot initiate de-recognition procedures at all, as, once again, the government is in charge of recognizing or de-recognizing, not a small opposition party. That's like saying the Green Party in the US will initiate the de-recognition of Kosovo. --alchaemia (talk) 16:21, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Avala on this matter, take the discussion to Czech Republic–Kosovo relations please Ijanderson (talk) 15:05, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Hyseni believes more recognitions are to come

Balkan Insight 30 March '09 He has said this many times before and he has rarely been correct, for example a Banana Republic recognised Kosovo after Hyseni said that more recognitions are coming. Please note the word "optimistic". Can we update the article with this source? Or just keep it in mind. Ijanderson (talk) 11:57, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I think that Hyseni states this in every press conference, or whenever talks to a journalist. Its better to wait.Balkanian`s word (talk) 12:05, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Argentina has recognised! (HOAX)

Argentina has recognised. Foreign Ministry spokesman Paolo Fril stated that Argentina "extends it warmest congratulations to the Republic of Kosovo on achieving its independence. The Republic of Argentina has formally recognized Kosovo as an independent sovereign state". [14]

Hehe you should have chosen something more possible.--Avala (talk) 09:47, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I forgot to say that President Kirchner then asked the Foreign Minister to nip out to the local hardware store to buy a tin of tartan paint and some left-handed nails. Bazonka (talk) 10:24, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

No jokes please! This is not fun. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Max Mux (talk • contribs) 16:27, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I am not amused. This is not the place for stupid "April Fools" tripe. Canadian Bobby (talk) 17:48, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

This is quite minor considering the fact that the Main Page has been an AF joke for the whole day.--Avala (talk) 19:10, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Indonesia

To recognise soon? Crude English translation, but very interesting news Bernerd (talk) 10:10, 2 April 2009 (UTC) Edit - eh can't get the link to work, here's the Albanian orginal [15]

Is this for April Fools Day too? I would like to see more sources. The only explanation for this is that loads of Muslim Countries want to have the same position on Kosovo. Indonesia has many separatist movements, so if this is true, its really unexpected. Ijanderson (talk) 11:13, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Express newspaper in Kosovo is also reporting that Indonesia will recognise Kosovo as quoted in Balkan Insight [16] Ijanderson (talk) 11:18, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Um pretty sure that Express and Gazetta Express are the same newspaper... I agree though, I think another source would be handy before we edit the article Bernerd (talk) 11:25, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Telegrafi is reporting it, too [17]. Canadian Bobby (talk) 11:49, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

[18], [19], [20], the source says President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono said in London School of Economics that it's possible that we will recognize soon. Kosova2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.187.141.179 (talk) 12:22, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

http://www.newkosovareport.com/200904021696/Politics/Indonesia-to-recognize-Kosovo-soon.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.173.217.226 (talk) 14:01, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I have updated that article, but if Indonesia is "imminent", it will probably be like Saudi Arabia and been imminent for ages Ijanderson (talk) 15:02, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Always so negative, Ian. Canadian Bobby (talk) 17:59, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

We have two more links now [21] and the speech itself on video [22] --alchaemia (talk) 19:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Some new information

http://glassrbije.org/E/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6761&Itemid=26

http://www.emportal.rs/en/news/serbia/84069.html

http://www.write-about-property.com/articles/eu-and-un-meetings-with-kosovo-give-fm-fresh-hope-of-recognition-289.php

http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n176278Max Mux (talk) 18:01, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Estonian Ambassador

The Ambassador of Estonia to Kosovo presented her credentials on Thursday, April 2. She is based in Brussels. This should be added to the article [23] - Canadian Bobby (talk) 18:40, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Done. Also found - and used - the official link from the Estonian Ministry of Foreign Affairs[24] --alchaemia (talk) 23:00, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Canadian Ambassador presents his credentials to Kosovar President

The Ambassador of Canada to Kosovo presented his credentials on Tuesday, April 7. He's also ambassador to Croatia as well. This should be added to the article.

http://www.telegrafi.com/?id=2&a=3989 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.70.140.157 (talk) 13:41, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Duly updated. --alchaemia (talk) 22:52, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Gambia recognises Kosovo

[25]. [26]. I already updated it. Please check my work and make sure I didn't mess it up. Thanks. Canadian Bobby (talk) 17:29, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

In English it's here: [27] --DaQuirin (talk) 18:14, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Tagging for pov-title tried to explain

Discussion was started by User:Biblbroks ("my" "account") some month ago. Tried to explain my POV that the term recognition could be regarded as a process and as such the term might not be appropriate for the title. The definitions in wiktionary were massively used to illustrate this point and the discussion was/is very long. Tried to use method of asking questions (many questions ) to illustrate this POV. Socratic method :-) . All the best, 78.30.153.144 (talk) 00:17, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

We also told you that your point was asinine, pedantic and tedious. Your tagging the article because we didn't agree with you is vandalism. Canadian Bobby (talk) 01:43, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

It is quite clear that User:Biblbroks/IP:78.30.153.144 is a one-man-army and has no support for his cause, therefore we should leave it at that because his argument is unable to get a consensus. Ijanderson (talk) 12:09, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Besides, what's POV about the word "recognition"? Either a country recognizes Kosovo as independent or as a Serbian province; there is always a recognition. Húsönd 17:34, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I think Biblbroks is actually concerned about the word's ambiguity. It could be considered POV that the article's title assumes that we mean recognition of Kosovo as independent, not recognition as a Serbian province. I think there is a valid case for renaming the article to "International recognition of the Republic of Kosovo" to remove this ambiguity. But this is pedantic semantics - I don't think that anyone (other than Biblbroks) would even consider that it means anything other than recognition as an independent state. Bazonka (talk) 18:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Don't mind Canadian Bobby, he's a pretty moody guy. But there is nothing factually wrong with the title. The fact is that there is some international recognition of Kosovo – it's minimal, only a small minority of nations recognize it, but there is some recognition and this article documents it. Look at the article International recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia for precedent. --Tocino 20:01, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Very poor choice of words. Firstly, recognition of the Republic of Kosovo is far from "minimal": it's quite a considerable minority of countries, not just one or two like those that recognize the independence of Abkhazia ("minimal" would be appropriate for this case). Secondly, it sounds quite in-denial and unrealistic to refer to the majority of the world's democracies and greatest economies with words such as "some recognition", "small minority of nations". Húsönd 14:09, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Less than 25% of the world recognizes Kosovo, so yes it's pretty minimal. And who cares if they are democracies or not, that doesn't make them better, or more important than other peoples. You don't believe that Western Europeans are superior to the rest of the world do you? I thought Western Europeans would've gotten rid of this imperialist attitude long ago considering the amount of problems they created in Africa, Asia, and Latin America, but I guess I am mistaken. --Tocino 18:43, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

We obviously have different interpretations of the words "minimal" and "better". And who said anything about Western Europeans? Anyway, this is not a forum, so please spare our eyes of your well-known pushy POV Tocino. Húsönd 18:45, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I reckon it's only about 18% in terms of population - but population is irrelevant, it's UN seats that count. 57 out of 192 is about 30%. Bazonka (talk) 18:18, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm moody? Here I thought we were above ad hominem attacks. Ijanderson is my good mate and that's all the support I need :-P. - Canadian Bobby (talk) 20:32, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

It would be a laugh if we all met in person some time. It would be interesting to meet the people behind the online personalities. :) OK back to the article. --Tocino 21:21, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

HaHa I've actually met Bazonka. It would be funny meeting everyone else, you'd all have weird accents :p Ijanderson (talk) 21:30, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Maybe we should all fly to Prishtina for a convention of Wikipedians =p. I feel involved in this whole thing because I watch the talk pages dilligently, even though I rarely actually provide input into the article. I wish I knew how I could help more =p --Astrofreak92 (talk) 22:18, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Comoros recognises/to recognise Kosovo (?)

Express is quoting Mr. Pacolli as reporting that the Comoros will recognise Kosovo very soon [28]. The translation is somewhat clouded on whether he's saying that they have recognised and haven't communicated it to the Kosovar Ministry of Foreign Affairs or that they've decided to recognise and now have to go through the process. Any Albanian speakers/readers who can clear this up? -- Canadian Bobby (talk) 17:57, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

He says that Commoros have recognized Kosovo and that will inform the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Kosovo very soon about this decision.Balkanian`s word (talk) 18:01, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Very interesting. Thank you for your help. Sadly, we can't act on this article. We have to wait for official confirmation, lest we have the heads of our resident drama queens explode ;-). Canadian Bobby (talk) 18:12, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Yep, but at least we know that Pacolli wont make us wait too long:-)Balkanian`s word (talk) 18:16, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Kosovothanksyou.com is working to confirm the news. Canadian Bobby (talk) 18:47, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

• Maybe we should expand the article Behgjet Pacolli. Anybody? Colchicum (talk) 18:51, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

He always says that, attempting to make his efforts appear more than what they are. If he's always fighting this "great pressure" and, in his eyes, "winning", then this will certainly make him look more "effective." --alchaemia (talk) 00:58, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

According to Jeremic this is a pressure regarding the April 17 when the ICJ proceedings shall begin. Not that it sounds reasonable that The Gambia and Comoros can influence the ICJ but he did say something along those lines.--Avala (talk) 23:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

You really think ICJ is gonna bring back Kosova to Serbia? None and nothing can bring back Kosova and I guess Serbia knows that and all it can is try to make live miserable for Kosova. There is nothing constructive in Serbias behaviour. Inat? --84.56.237.2 (talk) 07:59, 11 April 2009 (UTC)