Talk:Paul Ray Smith

Medal Picture

I was just wondering why the MOH image beside his photograph shows the Navy MOH and not the Army MOH? I'm not familiar with HTML or even wikipedia for that matter, but I think it needs to be changed to reflect the actual medal he was awarded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.144.196.195 (talk) 06:06, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

You're right, it was the wrong medal. I've replaced it with an image of the Army version. jwillbur 21:34, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Photos

Hey yall, I found a photo we can use on the article: http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/OCPA-2005-03-29-152933.jpg

A whole group of images from the Army can be found at http://www4.army.mil/armyimages/index.php?range=all&search=paulmith&pageNum_Images=1&totalRows_rsArmyImages=35&search=paul+smith&btn=Search+Army+Images&range=all. Zscout370 (talk) 21:24, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This article is great and well merited. Why does it's formatting differ? There seems to be a lot of HTML code which changes the appearance, and it looks awful on my browser.Manning 04:58, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Quote Source

I added a quote from Smith, and other material, based on "this source", which I also added to the external links. - Bert 171.159.64.10 00:47, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Question

What is meant by allegiance? The oath is to the uS Constitution not the Army. Maybe, instead of allegiance, it should be "Military Branch." Use Country to identify, well, the uS.

Not most recent?

The medal of honor page indicates that there has been a more recent awarding of the medal..

You're right, a Korean War veteran (Tibor Rubin) belatedly received the Medal in 2005. Smith's is still the most recent Medal of Honor action, though. I have updated the article to reflect that. Jwillbur 17:55, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Bronze or Silver Star?

The link about the simulation centre named in his honour mentions that he was awarded the Silver Star posthumously and was nominated for the Medal of Honor. Can someone check if the Bronze Star mentioned in this article is actually Silver? I'm not an expert, it just seems like as a direct combat award it would be the one he would have gotten prior to the Medal of Honor. 142.177.126.249 17:25, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

It ain't necessary to discuss how many times he got shot, all you need to say is he was fatally wounded

How he died

When the event first occured, I read in numerous places he was shot in the abdomen and died half an hour later from abdominal bullet wounds. Two years later this was changed to a instantly fatal shot to the head. Did anyone else realise this? --Staples11 05:30, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008

Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 18:28, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

"Enemy"

It seems a bit biased to the United States viewpoint to use the term "enemy" in the narrative instead of "Iraqi soldiers" or some such term. My only problem is I'm not sure if they were Iraqi soldiers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.175.69.98 (talk) 01:48, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Enemy is fine in this context - it is a simple descriptive word. Whoever he was fighting against were his enemies regardless of their race, alliegence or creed: it is a factual statement, not an ideaogical one.--Jackyd101 (talk) 01:42, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

It may be factual, but it's also biased, absolutely breaks NPOV. Were his enemies a bunch of girl scouts or Iraqi army regulars or Saddam Hussein's sons or Shia militia or Darth Vader's personal guard? It makes a huge difference. Painting them as anonymous cardboard cutouts, without even giving an approximate number as to how many people were involved (did this man die confronting two people or two hundred?) is to create a recruiting poster picture, not tell us exactly what happened, why, and involving whom. --talk 14 May 2010

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Paul Ray Smith/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jackyd101 (talk) 02:12, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi there, I have reviewed this article against the Wikipedia:good article criteria and I am not quite prepared to pass the article for GA at this stage. I have listed below the principle problems which prevent this article from achieving GA status. The article now has seven days to address these issues, and should the contributors disagree with my comments then please indicate below why you disagree and suggest a solution, compromise or explanation. Further time will be granted if a concerted effort is being made to address the problems, and as long as somebody is genuinely trying to deal with the issues raised then I will not fail the article. I am aware that my standards are quite high, but I feel that an article deserves as thorough a review as possible when applying for GA and that a tough review process here is an important stepping stone to future FAC attempts. Please do not take offence at anything I have said, nothing is meant maliciously and if anyone feels aggrieved then please notify me at once and I will attempt to clarify the comments in question. Finally, should anyone disagree with my review or eventual decision then please take the article to WP:GAR to allow a wider selection of editors to comment on the issues discussed here.

I have to say that I am not impressed and came close to failing this outright. Large swathes are copy and pasted directly from the US Army website here complete with typographical and grammar errors. This plagarisim is not only unethical but it is also lazy (and I really hope that you haven't done the same thing with the book sources or it is illegal as well). A lot of work needs doing before this article can be promoted.--Jackyd101 (talk) 02:12, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Issues preventing promotion

• It is reasonably well written.

  a (prose): b (MoS):

• In the lead, name the President (I know it was Bush, but future readers may not know that automatically).

• Done --Kumioko (talk) 11:23, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

• "as a child enjoyed sports especially football, cats, skateboarding, riding bicycles, and playing pranks with friends and his younger sister Lisa" - A 2 second google search revealed that this is copied straight off the US Army website. While not a copyright violation, this is plagarism and lazy writing - It doesn't even make sense for goodness sake! "Cats" are not a sport! Neither are playing pranks. Rephrase this so that it is a)

not a copy and paste and b) actually makes sense. Also link the terms, particularly football, which means different things on different continents.

• Done --Kumioko (talk) 11:30, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

• "He was sent" - Don't call Smith "he" or "him" or "his" the first time he is mentioned in a paragraph. Name him.
• The list of awards has been copied from the army website complete with typographical errors. Tidy it up.

• Done - I think its ok now. --Kumioko (talk) 03:29, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

• Link middle school: non-Americans won't know what this is (I don't).

• Done --Kumioko (talk) 03:29, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

• The USS Freedom information is in twice. Cut one mention but make sure all of the detail is retained.

• Done --Kumioko (talk) 03:29, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

• It is factually accurate and verifiable.

  a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

• "Later, he served during the Persian Gulf War." - How did he do that five years after the war ended?

• It is broad in its coverage.

  a (major aspects): b (focused):

• Expand the lead a bit - where was he fighting and in what capacity when he won the MoH (i.e. near airport and defending a field hospital)?
• "He liked to collect things from the sea such as rocks and marbles." - Again, this is a copy and paste job. So what? What possible bearing on his future notability did this have? Why are marbles in the sea? Explain this sentence and rephrase the ones above it so they aren't so repetative (even . . . even).

• Done --Kumioko (talk) 11:23, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

• What really irritates me, is that there are actually some nice quotes about him on the page you have copy and pasted from that you have failed to include at all. Take a look and see if they can be partially incorporated into the article in some way.

• It follows the neutral point of view policy.

  a (fair representation): b (all significant views):

• You use the word "enemy" a lot - although it is fine within context, perhaps try replacing it with other terms (i.e. Iraqi) where appropriate.

• It is stable.

  

• It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.

  a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):

• Overall:

  a Pass/Fail:

Leave a note here when this is ready for reassessment.--Jackyd101 (talk) 23:45, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Is this ready or not? I note that the Persian Gulf War problem has still not been addressed. You have until Monday 26 April to address any remaining issues or I will fail this article. Regards--Jackyd101 (talk) 16:04, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

No further action since I posted the above warning, so I am afraid that this article has failed its GA review. If you feel I was in any way unfair, please take your complaints to WP:GAR. --Jackyd101 (talk) 17:48, 27 April 2010 (UTC)