User talk:Moonriddengirl

edit count | edit summary usage Wikipedia ads file info – #178 Welcome If you are here with questions about an article I have deleted or a copyright concern, please consider first reading my personal policies with regards to deletion and copyright, as these may provide your answer. While you can email me to reach me in my volunteer capacity, I don't recommend it. I very seldom check that email account. If you do email me, please leave a note here telling me so or I may never see it. I hardly ever check that account. To leave a message for me, press the "new section" or "+" tab at the top of the page, or simply click here. Remember to sign your message with ~~~~. I will respond to all civil messages. I attempt to keep conversations in one location, as I find it easier to follow them that way when they are archived. If you open a new conversation here, I will respond to you here. Please watchlist this page or check back for my reply; I will leave you a "talkback" notice if you request one and will generally try to trigger your automatic notification even if you don't. (I sometimes fail to be consistent there; please excuse me if I overlook it.) If I have already left a message at your talk page, unless I've requested follow-up here or it is a standard template message, I am watching it, but I would nevertheless appreciate it you could trigger my automatic notification. {{Ping}} works well for that. If you leave your reply here, I may respond at your talk page if it seems better for context. If you aren't sure if I'm watching your page, feel free to approach me here. Admins, if you see that I've made a mistake, please fix it. Hours of Operation In general, I check in with Wikipedia frequently between 12:00 and 23:00 Coordinated Universal Time. When you loaded this page, it was 08:09, 14 August 2024 UTC [refresh]. Refresh your page to see what time it is now. Jack Lord#Filmography Hi. Care to review this? There are threads related to it on the article talk page, User talk:Viriditas, User talk:Maile66, and User talk:Wildhartlivie. Jack Merridew 18:03, 24 June 2010 (UTC) Hi, Jack. I'm not quite sure what's going on there, I'm afraid. While I can read consensus, I'm not so good with coding. :/ Is the template in use the one agreed upon and the font the proper size? With the color question, we can really stand to move forward with the RfC, but so far nobody has responded to the questions I left on June 18th. If we don't have some kind of concrete goal, I'm afraid it won't settle much. :( --Moonriddengirl (talk) 18:20, 24 June 2010 (UTC) I just answered a similar query at F&W's talk. I fixed the coding mess; I'm a professional at that. The issues I have with what I noticed are WHL attacking the sortability, and characterizing her way as "standard". The only point of that template is the colour, and that's still an open question. I've been really busy, but will get back to your questions later today. I'll prolly post a pretty detailed statement of what I see as the issues. Clearly, this need doing. Cheers, Jack Merridew 18:32, 24 June 2010 (UTC) And while you're at it, maybe you could get Jack to stop wikistalking me and trying to stir up crap that is not an issue, or make an issue of it. The filmography table begin template most certainly DID have consensus at the RfC at WT:ACTOR, and really all he's doing here is complaining because these days, he's NOT using it and leaving in the mark-up he complained so viciously about before, even recently editing one page that I didn't put it on to add it and then is busily going about pushing his person POV preference of sortable tables. He's wearing out his welcome with me, oh no, he did that a long time ago. I'm really SICK of him popping up places where he has never edited before as soon as he sees that I have edited on the page. It's persistent and it seems to me it is done just to "announce" that he's stalking me. He has posted the same post as the one he did here to many talk pages, [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] and this one in what I would consider yet another violation of WP:CANVASSING, trying to cause me problems. This is OLD behavior and it needs to stop, really. I was of the impression that such conduct is not acceptable under the terms of Jack's being allowed to return to editing and factually, he bends over backwards to follow my edits, post such posts, incite things and endeavor to get rid of people who don't agree with his "seriouz-clue" folks. Wikistalking is defined as "Wiki-hounding is the singling out of one or more editors, and joining discussions on pages or topics they may edit or debates where they contribute, in order to repeatedly confront or inhibit their work, with an apparent aim of creating irritation, annoyance or distress to the other editor." That is precisely what he is doing. This Jack Lord filmography thing is an attempt to try and make something out of a response to a request for assessment and his efforts at cross posting most certainly are an attempt to create irritation, annoyance and distress to me and to inhibit my work here. The links he posted here do not indicate anything improper since consensus was to use the template and the rest is his own POV. Wildhartlivie (talk) 18:37, 24 June 2010 (UTC) I didn't know that Jack had ever been barred from editing, actually. I tend to keep my head down and focus on my copyright work most of the time, with occasional breaks for a change of scenery. Sometimes I later wish I hadn't. :/ My only involvement in actors and films (except occasional copyvio work and probably some vandalism or BLP reversion) is the RfC. If consensus is violated for the RfC, I'm happy to drop a friendly word in somebody's ear to point out what consensus was, although as time goes on there's always the whole aspect of WP:CCC. I'm also happy to try to help pull together an RfC on color use, because I can see that it is a difficult and contentious issue, and I am neutral on the subject and generally try to be helpful. :) (Truly: for a couple of years I hosted a subpage on Race and intelligence in my userspace because contributors couldn't agree on a neutral place to put it, and though I kind of cringe at the whole topic I figured I might as well.) Other than that, I'm afraid I have no special insight into this situation. But it seems very much as though issues here go beyond this specific situation. It feels personal. I cringe to ask, but have the two of you tried mediation? Or an RfC? I'd really hate to see you come to metaphoric blows and one of you to wind up leaving. :( --Moonriddengirl (talk) 18:51, 24 June 2010 (UTC) Thanks for letting me comment, though, I find you very helpful, a lot. And have said so. I have no real hope that mediation will help, and I made a long post on AN/I about his conduct toward me, which died a natural death when people stopped commenting and it was archived. However, the complaint has been around for quite a while and no one seems to care enough to stop him from stalking me. In fact, I have greatly curtailed my activities during the week when he is around because I am weary of the stalking and attacks. I am frequently hesitant to even log in for fear something else (like this today) will have reared its ugly head. The issue besides his conduct toward and about me, is his sudden interest in deprecating the prior consensus on the template and his actions to subvert it. Wildhartlivie (talk) 20:12, 24 June 2010 (UTC) I'm drafting a reply, but it's slow-going. Let me get to the copyright question that's popped up below, and I'll get back to it. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:35, 24 June 2010 (UTC) Okay. You're welcome to comment, and I appreciate that (your statement that you find me helpful, that is), but I do wish I could offer some concrete assistance. It took me forever just to read through the ANI thread. I'm not sure if mediation would help, but I do kind of wonder if the ANI thread you link might not have suffered with a bit of sprawl, just like the actor RfC. If you feel like Jack is not giving you enough breathing room and the two of you can't negotiate some comfortable terms to make things more pleasant for both of you (seems from reading the whole ANI thread that you both feel frustrated), then outside intervention might be really a good idea. I am hesitant to suggest a Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User conduct since it is by nature kind of adversarial (while mediation tries to bring you together). Really, it would be great if you could negotiate some parameters of interaction that would work for you. But you know better than I do what you two have tried and what has or hasn't worked. Beyond RfC I don't know what to suggest. Arbitration? Yikes. I'd go for the RfC first. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:47, 24 June 2010 (UTC) This is about how the whole ACTOR:RFC went. I've considered an RFC/U and mediation; F&W urged me away from that approach as 'escalation'. WHL's "seriouz-clue" folks comment above is a reference to a comment I made the other day concerning some editors I agreed with: User:Newyorkbrad, User:Risker, and User:John Vandenberg, all of whom have a pretty firm grasp on the clue-stick; see: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Houston McCoy for my comment and her reaction to it. I've had a lot of discussion with the arbitration committee; honest dialogue is key to returning from an indef. If you're unfamiliar with my history, have a read and ask me to fill in any gaps. It's all out there and is constantly thrown back at me by users who don't like my views; it's a well understood tactic: "change the subject". WHL has placed her talk page off limits to me; she refuses to engage in genuine dialogue with folks who disagree with her; note all the criticism she removes from her talk pages. The real core issues are her ownership attitude towards her actor bios, and her appalling belligerence and bad faith. I don't give a hoot about her personally; I'm concerned about a huge amount of really poor markup that she's the source of. Cheers, Jack Merridew 00:03, 25 June 2010 (UTC) That's okay, Jack, I don't need to know your history; I'd forget it anyway. I'm good at that. :) I'm not offering to mediate; I'm just offering suggestions to help you two interact peaceably. Whatever the source of conflict, it seems intense. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 00:13, 25 June 2010 (UTC) My history is there; it's what is. I'm all for dialogue with whomever. WHL needs to learn to collaboratively engage in dialogue with those who have legitimate criticisms and not go ballistic at the sight of my user name. I've been attacked by a lot of editors here and her attacks don't bother me. Her obstruction of efforts to improve things is another matter. I'm in the middle of a longish post on the /RfC page, so look for that in a bit. The Jack Lord page has brought this to a head and I'll be posting a lot more. When I first made a clean-up WHL didn't like I was called before WP:ACTOR with a reference to it as a "governing body"; I called it a "club" and have been on her shite-list ever since. Beyond the colour issue, is the whole issue of the authority of wikiprojects (which is nill). I'm sure some do good work, but I see a lot of empire-building here; a route for a small group to exercise a fabricated authority over large swaths of articles. This is what Chickenmonkey is getting at. Cheers, Jack Merridew 01:12, 25 June 2010 (UTC) p.s. real name is David: see Jack Merridew ;) what I was re-reading when I was renamed. Jack, there is no point in talking to you simply because every time your username pops up, it is there with the intent to create conflict, just as your inappropriately canvassing your buddies with your cross posting the note that started this section. And don't overlook the demeaning way you have referred to the WP:ACTOR project and have repeatedly said the same thing in the conflict preceeded that, as did your snarky comments. You have given no good reason to doubt your motives on this. Witness your blaming me alone and personally for the filmography code being use, despite your having been told countless times that that code was already in existence and widely being used long before I ever touched actor articles, the only thing that changed from what it was before me was the change of color and a slight reduction in font size. And let's not overlook that I specifically asked you to explain what was a problem in the extant coding and you replied I was too stupid to understand. So why would discussion with you over any of this be productive? Oh, and the specifics on your "seriouz-clue" was stated in a way that denigrated the editors who didn't agree with the opinion, once again belittling other editors because you don't agree with them. How is any of that congenial or "collaboratively engaging" in anything? And let's not overlook the many times you've signed to me "Jeers, Jack Merridew". Not quite collaboratively inclined, is it? And yet you complain that I don't want you on my talk page. Small wonder. What I want is for you to stop following me around. You do it and you know it. Fences and Windows has suggested that you stop stalking my edits. Wildhartlivie (talk) 03:34, 25 June 2010 (UTC) I've not called WHL 'stupid' — I believe she's referring to this, where I stated: You really want an explanation of what's wrong with the code? That would be a technical explanation and I don't see you as a technical person and would expect the details of poor markup to be outside your domain; most of the WP:ACTOR crowd's, too, I expect, as they seem to have promoted invalid code for years and have burdened the project with several hundred thousand tables that are malformed. Sigh; it's a wiki; they let anyone edit, regardless of competence. See these [7] [8], too. I gave a technical explanation to Equazcion, and he agreed with the nuts and bolts code issues. WHL later claimed I did this because Equazcion is a man. Wow. Equazcion understands code, and I guess is a guy. Anyhoo, I'm certainly not a sexist and have worked with a fair number of sharp people who are women. This all highlights another major issue; people unskilled in technical matters wading into deep water. WP:RANDY ;) This is where the invalid markup was introduced, and from there it's spread to some huge number of articles. From these, further copies have been made to non-actor bios using other colours; a gift that keeps on giving. Cheers, Jack Merridew 04:36, 25 June 2010 (UTC) I don't plan to step into the middle of this, but since conversation is ongoing.... Jack, in the quote above, perhaps consider the emotional impact of your language? Had I introduced those tables (malformed or not), it would certainly not make me happy to have it characterized as "burdening the project". Presumably, we all want to make it better and hope that we are doing so. Also, with that "sigh" of yours, you rather imply that those of us who introduce invalid code may not quite be competent enough to edit. :) Perfection is not required and all. But, no, if that's the point in contention, it's really not the same thing as calling somebody stupid. I consider myself technologically impaired (almost technophobic), but I'm not stupid. I'm crackerjack with copyright work. We have different strengths, and ideally we pull together towards perfection. OTOH, if Wildhartlivie does see herself as a technical person, she might well feel substantially more denigrated by that than I would. If I asked you for an explanation on a point of copyright difference and you said "I don't see you as a legally-minded person" or "I don't see you as a logical person" or "I don't see you as somebody with any experience in this area" or suchlike, I'd be insulted. (Yes, there are certainly plenty of people who know more than I do, but I'm not ineducable.) From my work with copyright, I do know that even if people are introducing something invalid, they can frequently be brought not to; that whole "spoon full of sugar" really helps. :) (And I'm not saying that the code is or is not valid--I don't know, and I don't really want to learn. I don't have time to push past my knee-jerk technophobia. :) I will make tables the way I am told to make tables, but I will leave conversations about the proper methods of table-making to people with a more global understanding of the issues.) Still and all, I'm not at all sure that the conversation about it needs to be emotionally fraught. While you may not realize it, you both sound pretty intractable and unfriendly when you talk to one another. I suspect that there are some conflicts here that are not going to go away until and unless we get a definitive answer, but maybe we could keep conversation about it - if not friendly - as unemotional as possible? If you ever do seek mediation for your underlying conflict, it would if nothing else help people who are looking at a huge tangled mess and seeing what looks like hostility on both sides. Otherwise, it comes down to a "s/he started it", and even though I've got a singleton, I've been around enough to know what a headache it is trying to resolve that kind of thing. There are nuances that make it very hard for somebody who wasn't there in the beginning to figure out who is right. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:15, 25 June 2010 (UTC) I've got only two comments here. A separate discussion on another talk page has occurred concurrent to this one, which, like this one, sprang from Jack's inappropriately canvassing support, which also has occurred like this one. Please see User talk:Fences and windows#Jack Lord#Filmography, where the wikistalking and harassment was addressed by Fences and windows and by Rossrs as well diffs of those conclusions. Also see my post regarding the claims that exist that blame me for everything and do not represent what is contended on WP:Filmographies at User talk:Moonriddengirl/RfC. Perhaps looking at others' opinions on this issue will hopefully reduce the monster-shouting about me. Thanks for trying to help, MRG. Again, I appreciate it. I would still appreciate any thoughts you have on this. Wildhartlivie (talk) 17:50, 25 June 2010 (UTC) I see that at User talk:Fences and windows#Jack Lord#Filmography, Jack is not closed to the idea of mediation or an RfC. It might be a good idea. Frankly, I think it would be great if you could sort of avoid one another pending the result of the RfC (which I'll go to next; forget the CP listings), but I suspect that's unrealistic. You are both very passionate about your work. Jack, Wildhartlivie, any chance you could just sort of agree not to edit the same articles/talk pages for a bit? I don't mean stay off of ANI or off of the RfC subpage or what have you. But if you could avoid talking about or to one another on other people's talk pages and avoid each other in article space while this sorts out, it might help relax some of the tension around here. Even if you only accidentally arrive at the same place? --Moonriddengirl (talk) 19:33, 25 June 2010 (UTC) I'll agree to this, in a general sense, at least. There will prolly be exceptions but I'll try. No demonizing and reverting would be a good start. Cheers, Jack Merridew 20:15, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Thanks, Jack. :) Wildhartlivie, if you can agree to that, maybe we can at least diminish these issues while the matter is settled. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:39, 25 June 2010 (UTC) I'm not a meek fellow, I know, but people without expert knowledge are not the best people to be determining what's appropriate in whatever area. I'm comfortable with the basic rules of the road re copyright, but I'd defer to your opinion if you strongly expressed one contrary to mine regarding a copyright issue. One of my first encounters with WHL involved an image of Mary Pickford; I pinged Durova, who didn't agree with me (and I dropped it;). WHL is not adept at code; that's obvious and she's said as much. The term 'incompetent' is not a blanket insult; I used it to refer to myself at User talk:Jack Merridew#Um... (re brain surgery). I 'am' adept at a variety of 'code' and no one is really disputing that or that code I've identified as invalid is in fact bad code. If you need advice re coding (say a table) ping me. From the recent comments on your RfC subpage, I'm coming to the view the the crux of the issue at hand is really about the authority of wikiprojects; a view that the members of a wikiproject have the right to declare what shall be in the articles under their provenance, a term used by WHL and Malke. This directly contravenes WP:CONLIMITED and WHL seems to be saying that's what she wishes to see changed. The ACTOR:RFC went all sprawling because there were a lot of issue involved (and some came up later, such as sorting and rowspan). These issues are all intertwined and while addressing them individually is a fine theory, it is less practical to do so; they're intertwined. I suggested on F&W's page that Rossrs might serve as an informal mediator; no reply, yet. He's a friend of WHL's with whom I've had productive dialogue and he's seen a lot of this. I'm all for sorting this civilly. If WHL will cease attacking me, I'll respond to reasonable queries. Cheers, Jack Merridew 20:10, 25 June 2010 (UTC) (I've replied on Jack Merridew's talk page that I am willing. Rossrs (talk) 14:32, 26 June 2010 (UTC)) With respect to the core issue, I think I am coming to a similar conclusion. I look forward to feedback to my latest note at the RfC page. I hope you guys find a good mediator, and I hope you don't regret your statement: "If you need advice re coding (say a table) ping me." I am not known for shyness in asking for help. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:39, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Glad to hear it; I'll opine in the subpage later, as I'm going out for a bit. My offer re tables and other techie bits stands. I do this a lot and am not without facility; see here and just scroll through it slowly; lots of hard-coded markup... which is ok, on a user page ;) Cheers, Jack Merridew 21:14, 25 June 2010 (UTC) boink; you have new posts on da subpage. Cheers, Jack Merridew 02:25, 27 June 2010 (UTC) Thanks. :) It may be morning before I get to it; it's past my bedtime and I'm trying to finish a copyvio replacement article. But I'll put it next on my to-do list (after also putting out whatever urgent fires may rise during the night!) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 02:34, 27 June 2010 (UTC) This is why I wasn't going to be active at the RFC. I've watched this going on and have been called a meat puppet of WHL and more because of my open acknkowledgement of us being friends. I try to help keep WHL calm when she gets upset and/or is baited. She gets sick if she gets stressed out and as you know, I understand this so I try to help. I do it 'off' site via email where I feel more comfortable talking to her about the good, the bad and the ugly. I console her when things are bad for her but I also tell her what she should do differently to help the situation. It was actually working and she reached out to Jack for some coding help which he kindly did. That was a huge step from WHL to try and calm down the controversy. Unfortunately it didn't last. I still continue to talk to WHL when things get going which is how I found the thread at Fences and windows. I didn't have time to comment there but now I see Jack has again canvassed a bunch of editors, which I will also note are mostly administrators. Why did he put the same note on so many editors talk page, why so many administrators? Jack, why, what's the purpose? I am trying real hard to assume goo faith here but I have to admit I am have trouble doing so. WHL is an excellent editor. I admire the hard work she has done for the project. I wish I was half the editor she is and I mean this. Yet you accuse her of ownership issues and a slew of other things. You know if you keep saying this, do you think it makes it true? You also accuse her of having too many reverts even after she told you multiple times that she does recent patrol duty which is usually a lot of reverting of vandals. I do recent patrol too and I also do a lot of reverting. Why does this matter? What I would love to see is polite conversation without assuming someone has more or less knowledge in any area. I too reverted you a few times when you changed tables because it was under discussion and you said you wouldn't touch any tables, yet you did. I'm not going to get into any more of the accusation flying around. Basically what I would like to say is that if I can help either of you at least be polite and civil with each, something I think I am really good at, I am available. I talk with WHL via email because then we are free to say what we want and hash things out. Jack if you want to do this too, I am more then welcoming you to. I would really love this whole thing to stop already since it's gotten really old for all of us. So if you or anyone wants to chat with me please feel free to first ping my talk page. If things need to go to email then fine I'll say if it's ok to do so. I hope my long babble helps a little. :) MRG, I haven't commented much on the RFC but I promise to take a look at what your question is and give you a reply hopefully tomorrow (I'm going to lie down after I save this). Jack, please if you wouldn't mind, would you go to the others that you posted to about this and kill the postings as a gester of wanting to calm the waters. That would be appreciated I'm sure. We don't need more conversations like this one and the one at Fences and windows. Thanks in advance to you all, --CrohnieGalTalk 23:58, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Crohnie, just an observation that I must make in fairness. I think highly of Wildhartlivie too. I don't know why Jack Merridew left that message on the talk pages of various editors, who they are, or why he chose them but the message was neutral and was the exact same message left on my page. Although Jack hasn't done so, some editors have commented that I have a long history of agreeing with Wildhartlivie so for anyone to draw my attention to a disagreement they're having with her, well .... they kind of run the risk of me sticking to tradition. Please take my comment in good humour as it's intended in that spirit. Rossrs (talk) 14:32, 26 June 2010 (UTC) Don't worry Rossr, I am in no way stressed or upset by what you said. I read what you wrote to Wildhartlivie and I think you would be a good mediator since Jack approves and I think Wildhartlivie has respect for you also. I understand your confusion about the message being left by Jack at multiple pages, as I too am confused by it. Yes it was neutral, well I guess it was, but I still see no reason for him to have left it at so many pages of editors. But anyways, going to go now, be well and don't worry about me.  :) --CrohnieGalTalk 22:59, 26 June 2010 (UTC) Comment - On the surface of it, I am willing to let Rossrs try, if he is agreeable to it. I don't want, however, his friendship with me to end up being used against him, or me for that matter. Beyond the filmography controversy, my main issues are with being wikistalked, snarky and harassing comments to and about me, and Jack's tendency to canvass responses to RfCs or just discussion, whether they are appropriate instances of canvassing or the more troublesome inappropriate instances. That's as simplistic as my issues get. Wildhartlivie (talk) 20:31, 27 June 2010 (UTC) Possible set of copyvio images on commons Hi, I received an email today from Ed Pegg complaining that many of the graph drawings in Commons:User:Koko90 are copied from MathWorld. (I don't think the files themselves have been copied, but the images have the same vertex layout and the same visual stylings, far more closely than would be likely by coincidence. In most cases one can find the corresponding images on MathWorld just by searching for the name of the graph depicted in each image.) Is there an equivalent of WP:CCI for commons? Or, if not, what is the best way to deal with an issue like this? I left a message on Koko90's Wikipedia page about this, but he hasn't edited for a month. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:27, 24 June 2010 (UTC) Hi, and yes! :) It's not exactly the same, but in some ways simpler. I've done it several times in similar situations: Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Mass deletion request. It's a bit tedious in having to tag each image, but it clumps them nicely for discussion and review. The only real downside is that Commons has so few active admins that deletion debates can take quite a long time to close. Alternatively, you might want to broach the subject at Commons:Commons talk:Licensing. If there is general agreement that the problem rises to the level of copyright infringement, an admin might instead want to speedily delete them as derivatives. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:39, 24 June 2010 (UTC) Thanks. I'll try giving Koko a chance to respond first, then probably try the mass deletion request if necessary. —David Eppstein (talk) 22:54, 24 June 2010 (UTC) (talk page stalker) As a Commons admin (and editor of graph theory articles): there may be a serious question here of whether these images reach the threshold of originality to be copyrightable, if they're very simple in their arrangement/layout. I think the images may have to be examined on an individual basis. Dcoetzee 18:31, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Only 27 more CCIs to go... The Barnstar of Fine Arts For taking the time to not only remove copyrighted content but to provide well-written and well-sourced replacements, for the oh so many Renaissance and Baroque painting articles I've sent your direction over the past couple of months. VernoWhitney (talk) 21:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC) Whoot! A new pretty picture! :D Thank you, but you do me too much credit. You did the hard haul there. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 22:12, 24 June 2010 (UTC) I don't know about that. If I could have rewritten them I wouldn't have been blanking them to let other people do that part. Of course I think there are something like 21 more art pieces and a couple of biographies coming down the pipeline over the next week before the CCI is really complete, but I figured that the closing of it was a good enough occasion for merriment. VernoWhitney (talk) 13:46, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Is there a reason this CCI hasn't been closed yet? VernoWhitney (talk) 14:49, 28 June 2010 (UTC) Alas, because it has 13 subpages. :/ Only the first is complete. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 14:51, 28 June 2010 (UTC) Ah, clearly I'm still not entirely awake yet. VernoWhitney (talk) 14:56, 28 June 2010 (UTC) But, you know, it raises a good point: if you didn't notice that, why would others? I wonder if we can figure out a way to indicate that CCIs like this are not complete under the CCI. Maybe we should make subpages a subsection of investigation? (P.S. I'm still working to earn that barnstar. :D) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 14:58, 28 June 2010 (UTC) Usually I notice them (I've been working off and on from the tail end of Paknur), and I am pretty out of it today. Maybe something to revisit another day, though. And yeah, I think I knew that if I gave you the barnstar ahead of time you'd feel obligated to spend time on the last of the paintings that are headed your way. :-P VernoWhitney (talk) 15:05, 28 June 2010 (UTC) Since I already turned this into a generic CCI thread, I figure I may as well continue: I just wrapped up the last little bit of another CCI and pursuant to our conversation at Wikipedia talk:Contributor copyright investigations#Confidentiality questions, I was trying to place it in the archive under the contributors name instead of the date, as far as I can tell, though, there isn't a way to specify a different subpage and title for the archive link (I've just put in a clunky substituted workaround for now). Do you know of a way to do it with the current template or should I look into adapting {{CCI-closed}} to take an extra parameter? VernoWhitney (talk) 16:28, 28 June 2010 (UTC) Hmm. Guess this is the first anonymous one we're closing. :) I don't know of a way to do it; if you can adapt it, that would be awesome. The date started will be next to useless if we need to refer to an archived CCI later. :/ --Moonriddengirl (talk) 16:41, 28 June 2010 (UTC) Since my last bot-related question to you got archived and this is somewhat CCI related, I'm shoehorning it in here: The way VWBot is currently running it thinks that articles from a CCI which were blanked on the day a CCI gets closed need to have their contributor notified (see User:VWBot/Trial#29 June 2010 for two examples from yesterday). I know that it isn't required to notify contributors about a CCI blanking, but is it a problem if the bot does it for whichever articles are blanked on the day their CCI is closed? I haven't been able to think of an easy way to account for closed CCIs yet, so I guess I just want your take on if it's a big enough problem to worry about for later. VernoWhitney (talk) 03:38, 29 June 2010 (UTC) Feel free to bump me any time I miss something. :) I remind myself periodically that I should not rely on the new messages" bar but should look at every section on my talk page, but sadly I never seem to do that in spite of my good intentions. :/ Hmm. What if we delay closure of CCIs until the full seven day investigation period is completed? I think of people like Derek Bullamore; he's a good guy, and he's been working really hard on cleaning up issues. Even if no harm is intended, I'm sure that the copyright problem notices are embarrassing and (new contributor or not) may seem a bit bitey. (Even outside of CCI, I seldom leave more than one on a contributor's page; I usually will leave a CP notice and follow it up with a subsection saying something like, "I've also found issues in This other article which need to be addressed." That said, I make clear note in edit summary that I am listing another problem, because I rely on such edit summary notes as an admin when investigating copyright concerns.) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 11:27, 29 June 2010 (UTC) Something like that would work, although as far as the bot is concerned it would only need to delay closure of the CCIs by one day, at which time the blanked pages are no longer new and it doesn't care about them (assuming people don't unblank them one day and reblank them the next, which we can't really control). VernoWhitney (talk) 11:58, 29 June 2010 (UTC) No, we can't, but frequently it's the creator who in that case is asking for it. :) (Not always, but alas.) If a day delay works, then perhaps we should just unofficially adopt that practice for now and encode it if we start to get regulated enough to need it. At the moment, it seems to be mostly you closing them. And good job, btw. :D It had been my business plan to pass out barnstars when CCIs closed as a kind of general "carrot", but you have well surpassed that point. :D --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:07, 29 June 2010 (UTC) Ok, we can just leave them unblanked for one more day and use the "completed=yes" flag again. And I've been focusing on the easy to close ones, it gives me a sense of progress. I can't say I'd be opposed to more "carrots", though. :-P VernoWhitney (talk) 12:26, 29 June 2010 (UTC) I'll remember that. :D Last time I gave you a carrot, I got the idea I might be overloading you. You may not have encountered this yet, but some people don't care that much for carrots. I like them myself and will periodically update my userpage to record them, though I try to do batches because they make me blush. Why? I don't know. Even confessing that makes me blush. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:38, 29 June 2010 (UTC) the archive bot Won't archive anything unless there are about six five threads on the talk page. First time users who config with a short archive time, have only a few threads on their talk page and then wait for it to do its thing often think it's not working at all. Gwen Gale (talk) 15:57, 25 June 2010 (UTC) For MiszaBot, this behaviour can be changed with the |minthreadstoarchive= setting. –xenotalk 16:00, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Ooh! I didn't know about that setting, thanks Xeno :) Gwen Gale (talk) 16:08, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Ah, thank you both! This is a problem I've never encountered. :D Could save me some head scratching. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 16:01, 25 June 2010 (UTC) So, people who know stuff, did I do it right? :D ([9]) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 16:27, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Looks ok to me, it should work. Gwen Gale (talk) 16:32, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Thanks! J.Delanoy could tell you how many times I've come to him with archiving issues, but he's probably blocked the memory. LOL! Oi. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 16:33, 25 June 2010 (UTC) The only thing that ever daunted me were the defaults on minimum threads handled, would that I'd ever bothered to look at User:MiszaBot/Archive_HowTo#Parameters_explained Oo Gwen Gale (talk) 16:38, 25 June 2010 (UTC) I've never really understood what I'm doing or where things were going wrong. I think this was my first run to J. I've been back at least once. I'm willing to bet he's seen me on the issue a good handful of other times. :/ --Moonriddengirl (talk) 16:45, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Yep, he spotted the glitch back then, you somehow added brackets to the value bucket, which the bot took as meaning "0Kb" (pls don't ask me why I spent 10 minutes of my life tracking that down :) Gwen Gale (talk) 16:59, 25 June 2010 (UTC) LOL. We Wikipedians. We're thorough. :D --Moonriddengirl (talk) 17:00, 25 June 2010 (UTC) We're crazy, the lot of us, which is what makes it so cool :D Gwen Gale (talk) 17:04, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Interesting group on the help desk today. :D Malke2010 17:05, 25 June 2010 (UTC) One of the things I like best about Wikipedia, we have people with a lot of different talents around here. And that's a good thing, because it means I can spread my help requests around. Poor J. For a while there, I didn't know who else to turn to about this stuff. (Ha, Gwen! Now I have another resource!) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 17:08, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Maybe I'm (kinda) handy with groking configs and scripts, but I've spent my life fleeing from programming... fleeing :) Gwen Gale (talk) 17:23, 25 June 2010 (UTC) I will give you a break, then. :) But if it makes you feel any better, this is about as complex as I usually get. I stay in the shallow end! --Moonriddengirl (talk) 17:25, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Oh, please don't be shy about asking me about tech stuff here, truth be told, what I don't know, I know how to look up, I learn too and I like bein' nudged. Sometimes, I need to be nudged! Gwen Gale (talk) 17:34, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Thank you. You are now on my mental list of "go to" folk for stuff like this. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 17:41, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Hey, the update I did yesterday on my talk page to the minthreads parameters for MiszaBot seems to have worked great. Gwen Gale (talk) 17:15, 26 June 2010 (UTC) Great! Maybe it'll work for Malke. :) We should find out in two days. :D --Moonriddengirl (talk) 17:21, 26 June 2010 (UTC) Copyright of Mrs. Anton Haardt info I am sorry about this oversight, I am learning how to publish a new page, and trying to help a well deserving artist friend who is well known and should be included in Wikipedia. You may be able to verify this by looking at her Website that I was trying to paste part of the biography here in Wikipedia. I Understand what the problem is now, even so she would be delighted to be in Wikipedia. I know she will grant permission, what and how do I get this to you so that it can be published? Please do not band me from been able to publish pages permanently. I wasn't sure this material was copyrighted. I made several attempts to publish this not knowing what was happening. It would be very helpful for all people involved (Editors & Yourself) if a very visible pop-up warning came about the first time one accidentally violates a rule, rather that stumbling across the sea of information and small links a person not knowing has to look for. This will allow an editor from getting banned while trying to find out what is preventing them from publishing. I am not sure I got banned all ready as I made several attempts before finding your message. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Louis De Pena (talk • contribs) 19:39, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Question for you.. Hi Moonriddengirl, I see you are mentoring here. I only read this partially but I think I read enough because I was watching bits and pieces of the AN/i. Now to my question, I've not had any contact with this editor but have seen him/her postings at a couple of talk pages I watch. Would you and him/she like some extra eyes to help with the mentoring? I've never done a mentoring before but have always wanted to be second fiddle so I could learn how to help editors that need it. If not a good idea just let me know. I promise my feelings won't be hurt. :) On a different note, how are you feeling? I hope you are better now, your edits seem to show you are feeling better and have a bit more energy but I'd still like to check in with you. :) Take care and be well, --CrohnieGalTalk 22:45, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Hi. I'm feeling much better thanks. :) Frazzled as usual, but not lacking energy and air! And I'll check with User:Malke 2010. If nothing else, you could be a big help to her and to me if you point out any issues you see to me. She's active. :D I wouldn't want to overlook something that needs discussion. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 22:49, 25 June 2010 (UTC) I've become familiar with her. Please feel free to guide anything to me, also. Wildhartlivie (talk) 23:16, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Thanks CrohnieGal and Wildhartlivie. Appreciate the support. Also, Moonriddengirl, I've sent you an email. :D Malke2010 22:33, 26 June 2010 (UTC) subpage I've sent you an email. I'm also planning a post on the subpage today. If you're too busy or want to take a break, I'm not expecting an immediate reply. :D Malke2010 16:46, 27 June 2010 (UTC) It will probably be a break for me. :) Yesterday was rather frantically about writing articles to replace copyvio problems. I can't save them all, but I can't stand to see us lose our article on, say, Sistine Madonna. :( Anyway, I'll check the e-mail. And if I'm on Wiki, I will respond to your note there when I see it. :) (More art articles to replace! Oi!) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 16:50, 27 June 2010 (UTC) Okay, good. And by all means, please save Sistine Madonna. Malke2010 17:22, 27 June 2010 (UTC) Discussion on ELs to a site with lots of copyvio You might want to see [10]. Dougweller (talk) 20:09, 27 June 2010 (UTC) Help with OTRS Hi MrG. Can you look into this and maybe add an OTRS template to the talk page? Thanks, Theleftorium (talk) 10:24, 28 June 2010 (UTC) Looks like the article has been nominated for AfD. Still might be worth adding the template, though, if the content has been licensed correctly. Theleftorium (talk) 10:27, 28 June 2010 (UTC) Good morning, newly minted admin! (Mmm, fresh! and hopefully not dangerous :() I am on it. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 11:46, 28 June 2010 (UTC) I have some concerns about the release which I am addressing with the OTRS agent who handled the ticket. I think we may need a clearer statement of license. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 11:53, 28 June 2010 (UTC) Ok, much appreciated! I just made my first selective deletion this morning: The Valkyrians. Not too difficult. ^^, Theleftorium (talk) 12:33, 28 June 2010 (UTC) Well done. :D You may know this, but if the history is extensive, it's probably best to move it to a subpage for storage (as recommended, I use Article title/deleted revisions 2010-06-28). That way if there's ever need to selectively delete something else, there's less confusion about what to restore. With that one, I'd have done it just that way. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:36, 28 June 2010 (UTC) Yeah, I read about that at Wikipedia:Selective deletion. :) I just realized that I probably should have used revision deletion in this case though. Theleftorium (talk) 12:51, 28 June 2010 (UTC) Unless they're allowing us to do more than one at a time now, it's not a huge time-saver. But, yes, with two edits, it could still be good. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:53, 28 June 2010 (UTC) Even though people are deleting more than one revision at a time, last I checked you're probably still not supposed to. VernoWhitney (talk) 14:06, 28 June 2010 (UTC) Possible copyright mess Raised here, it seems that our first edit for Tryton copied some content from the copyrighted web page for the software. How do we fix this? –xenotalk 16:37, 28 June 2010 (UTC) LOL! In spite of telling somebody this morning I need to stop relying on the last message in "you have new messages" I did just that last night. You were masked by somebody cleaning up trolling. Sorry. :( The article is a clear derivative. Sometimes when content is completely overwritten, we can just remove older versions from history or even place a {{cclean}} on the article's talk page, but I'm afraid that this one remains a substantial copyright concern. It's no longer a G12 candidate, obviously. I've blanked and listed it, and it will resolve in about a week, probably with the deletion of all of his contribs to that article, since it's all problematic. The Userpage is a copyvio, too, obviously. By the time this is resolved, I think there will be no edits from that account to be retained. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:15, 29 June 2010 (UTC) No problem! I must admit, I was surprised that your usual SLA wasn't adhered to ;p. Thanks for your help on this. –xenotalk 14:50, 29 June 2010 (UTC) I'm not sure what a SLA is, but context gives me an idea. I have a bad habit of that one. Please feel free to drop an impatient "Well?" on my talk page if I'm not responding to. I always mean to, even if my answer must come down to "beats me." :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 14:59, 29 June 2010 (UTC) Service level agreement =) –xenotalk 15:05, 29 June 2010 (UTC) Ah, yes. We have willing spirit, sometimes shoddy execution. :D --Moonriddengirl (talk) 15:06, 29 June 2010 (UTC) User:Arpanmehra Hello! :-) Do you agree that an indefinite block is needed for Arpanmehra (talk · contribs)? Theleftorium (talk) 13:07, 29 June 2010 (UTC) Yes. This contributor isn't getting it. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:10, 29 June 2010 (UTC)  Done But isn't there a template for copyright blocks? Theleftorium (talk) 13:20, 29 June 2010 (UTC) Nope. I use User:Moonriddengirl/cblock, and you are welcome to join me, but I never did get around to outfitting it for indef-blocks. I usually copy it and tweak it when that happens. Heads up if you do use it: in spite of what it says, time is not optional. Omit it, and you get a mess. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:22, 29 June 2010 (UTC) Great, thank you! Theleftorium (talk) 13:26, 29 June 2010 (UTC) Thanks I wanted to extend my deep appreciation for your help, in "how to" vis-a-vis avoiding copying copyrigted material. My qeustion would then be, is it now, [with my last version AND your "fixing" part added] impossible, already, to revive the deleted al-Muthanna_club?Sallese (talk) 16:56, 29 June 2010 (UTC)