Talk:Assassination of Sokratis Giolias

Assassination

I am unfamiliar with the policy regarding incidents like these. Would it be better to complete the bio over time, or to change the article to the story of the assassination itself? Cwill151 (talk) 18:53, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I would support moving the article to Assassination of Sokratis Giolias, as that is what he is most notable for. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:18, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

That was my thinking, plus this would qualify under WP:ONEEVENT. So, should we move it? I think consensus might come down to you, me and User:Rebecca. Cwill151 (talk) 19:40, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

MickMackMee clearly supports moving it to Assassination of Sokratis Giolias. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:42, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Moved as HJ Mitchell also agrees. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:48, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Second, All in favor?...All opposed?...Motion carried. Cwill151 (talk) 19:55, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Was it actually an assassination? it could have been a pissed off husband or something. 15 shots is rather personnel. A hit is usually one or two shots, or so i heard.--71.162.248.240 (talk) 17:52, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Age

In most of the sources I've read it lists his age as 35. Am I mistaken? Cwill151 (talk) 20:02, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes I was. I was looking at sources in Hungarian... silly me. Cwill151 (talk) 20:04, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Bombing

I re-read several of the sources, and they all agree that the attack on Alter TV was actually a bombing, though still with no casualties. Is the article relevant to more categories with that addition? Cwill151 (talk) 20:53, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't have thought so - that's only a one line addition, the WikiProjects are more for the content of the article as a whole. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:00, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Most critical part of the debate is failed to be mentioned.

All major Greek media covering the story report the (obviously true) clash between blogs such as troktiko (of which he was the founder) and athens indymedia. --Leladax (talk) 02:28, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

More details on the matter: The claim is (which is in my opinion obviously true) that athens indymedia is a far left area while blogs such as this (troktiko) are considered by it (and by themselves) less leaning towards the far left. Sources on the 'debate clash' can be easily found on Greek major channels and perhaps papers. Also, last night's news had extensive coverage (notably on MEGA channel but also ALTER if I recall correctly) that athens indymedia server is located in Athens Polytechnio University which has political asylum from prosecution due to historical reasons (as other educational institutions). This was opposed by some commentators and centrist and centrist-right politicians live on the news. --Leladax (talk) 02:33, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

It can be safely said that Media were hostile towards athens indymedia. --Leladax (talk) 02:36, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

(I adjusted your indentation above). Yes, this makes no sense to me, from my perspective as a American. It seems to imply that a left revolutionary group would have something to hide/fear from an investigative journalist investigating, presumably corruption and/or other defalcations of the existing order, which is what left revolutionaries are supposed to be trying to overthrow. Please provide some explication of this. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 02:43, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

The claim of anonymous posters on indymedia is that he was 'part of the system' (when they are hostile towards him). The claim of many Popular Media in Greece (notably MEGA channel and ALTER) is that indymedia harbors very hostile comments that can be potentially be instigators. --Leladax (talk) 02:46, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I see that now. Apparently he was considered to be an agent of MSM for his blog and an enemy of the radicalization current in Greece. In fact a comment in the article linked from The Independent, mentioning English translations of some of the titles on his blog indicates an exceedingly reactionary perspective. Maybe someone who speaks Greek can make this clearer. The other MSM seem to completely miss and/or purposefully obfuscate this so that the only implication that can be drawn by an outsider is that these left revolutionary terrorist groups are implicated in some corruption he was about to uncover which makes no sense. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 03:19, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

as a person interested in indymedia's i have a note here, they are often spammed by anonymous posters , plenty of wich apparently perform the task for or through a government agency. next : revolutionairy and sect is an oxymoron, definitily also in greece, thirdly no anarchists ever went after a journalist , altho they might get behind a magnate. next the socalled smoking gun, occured a couple times before, afaik the usual terror suspect is taken in before even lighting as much as a candle, these guys roam free and kill, to get to their victims and implicate others, they use their own familiar tools, ballistic reports and saying there's been a cartheft (that will make him ome out), as an anarchist i would be interested to see a more nuanced opinion on oxymoronic deathsquad names etc. however suit it yourself, history is written by victors and not in truth. this will probs soon get deleted, so i add the deaths in the bank appear also planned from, 'some' side.80.57.43.99 (talk) 08:49, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

"Provocateurs did it" doesn't apply here. MEGA channel and others talked about "hostile" messages that the administrators of the site actively allowed to exist. In fact it's pretty obvious and nothing abnormal. Simply Athens Indymedia being comprised primarily by the far left it is normal for it to not be very loving of "established" journalists. i.e. It's nothing they would deny and there isn't much that the popular Media call as source that seems fake. The main disagreement between the two is clearly ideological. i.e. Popular Media think that it's dangerous to say "negatives" about victims and Athens Indymedia culture calls that 'establishment bs'. It's not really unclear there and no "provocateurs" are needed in either side to have it. --Leladax (talk) 09:23, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Well it appears the objective facts will have to await a distant historical perspective, which is ultimately, I believe, because there can only be one victor in the common historical perspective of mankind, in fact objective. Since the English wiki content appears to be currently far larger than the Greek, no resolution seems forthcoming here at this time, some degree of English-Greek bilingualism apparently being insufficient in and of itself without the proper analytical skills and perspective. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 11:58, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Transliteration quibble - should he be "Socrates"?

According to the article, the victim's name in Greek is Σωκράτης. This is a name with a familiar established English form, "Socrates". Shouldn't the article call him "Socrates" rather than "Sokratis"? - Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 14:13, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Some Greeks write their name - when they write it in English - in funny ways to distinguish it from (a particular) ancient philosopher(s) but also to denote they like to hear greek pronunciation. e.g. Sokratis could be closer to greek pronounciation (it'd still be wrong) than Socrates which has an english pronunciation --194.219.163.170 (talk) 15:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC).

Modern Greek names are usually translated phonetically, not with their latinized forms, and that quasi-rule is also the norm in Wikipedia. THat is why we have Eleftherios Venizelos instead of Eleutherios Venizelos, etc Constantine ✍ 17:14, 21 July 2010 (UTC)