Talk:Arab Christians

Edits

This is sourced and the edit is unjustified and May Murr is not in the source Deletion of a sourced statement Deletion of a sourced statement POV Edit Arab to Arabist Addition of content should be checked against source Should be checked for consistency against source Should be checked Should be checked Should be checked Possible Synthesis of Sources Link to cedarguards.org (possible reliability issue) (WP:SYN) "Phoenician Cultural Revival Movement" --Qvxz9173 (talk) 23:51, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Remember this is not a forum, you're clutering up this talk page. The above is to keep track of all your edits for my benefit and others. Some, if not most of your edits should be reverted, but I have better things to do than to get into some pointless edit war (all you're doing is making wikipedia look bad in writing such a factually inaccurate and biased article). --Qvxz9173 (talk) 00:58, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Post war Lebanon is Lebanon after the Taef Agreement. That is the meaning. like I keep stating your a very simple minded person. dont worry I knew my edits which I did source and were actually reveleant to the article would put your pan-arab knickers in a twist. May Murr is considered the leading poetess of the Lebanese nationalist movement [source has now been added]. The statements you put were purseposely put out of context to deflect from the article using which is part of a huge chunk of information and were half quotes used only to discredit the claim of Phoenicianism however the section isnt abotu rejecting phoenicisim but the rejection of Arabism. You want to put discredits on that go to the Phoenicianism article. ♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 00:17, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

If you are complaining about then I will respond.I am not the one who keeps complaining or accused people falsely of being socks.I have the right to give an explaination when questioned.It's your own bias that discredit my sources. ♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 01:00, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

0001

[1] Where in the following source does it say that May Murr was a notable figure in promotion of Phoenicianism: [2]. This is what the source says: "The Phoenician narrative never developed into an integrated ideology led by key thinkers. There were, however, a few Lebanese who stood out more than others in their support of the Phoenician view of the past. ...For social and political reasons, these three writers developed different interpretations of the Lebanese identity; the following discussion sheds light not only on their different views but also on the dissemeination of the Phoenicianism in Lebanon and its many hues." Page 141 Read the names the source provides --Qvxz9173 (talk) 07:00, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

0002

[3] Where in the following sources: [4] or [5] does it say "Phoenician genetic marker was found in all sects in Lebanon (including Maronites) and that it was equally distributed among sects,showing a common genetic link among most Lebanese. The study also showed that Lebanese people from the coast of Lebanon and Syria were more likely to carry the Phoenician gene". However, the source does say what was removed: "The research team analyzed the Y chromosome of 1,330 men from historic Phoenician trading centers in the Mediterranean regions of Syria, Palestine, Tunisia, Morocco, Cyprus, and Malta." and "Groves also cautions that one should not interpret the findings as suggesting the Phoenicians were restricted to a certain place." and "The researchers estimate that as many as one in 17 men from the Mediterranean may have Phoenician ancestry." --Qvxz9173 (talk) 07:30, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Seriously even 3rd parties who you whined at to look at the sources and section, told you there was no problem now you continue to still bark months later? Ive stated this before If you want to argue over the authenicity of Phoenicianism than go do that in the Phoenicianism article, This section is about the REJECTION of Arabism.I will not waste much time arguing with you since I've learned that arguing with brainwashed fanatic racist arabists is futile. May Murr was one of the key writers to inspire the Phoenician movement in Lebanon read some of poems, she was also one of the ideological thinkers that inspired the Guardians of the Cedars.♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 10:45, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

You FAILED to provide where in [6] states May Murr was a promonent promoter of Phoenicianism. Second, this is WP:SYN since [7] provides only three names. This is not a forum, provide what is being asked for, otherwise I conclude your edit is vandalism and POV pushing. --Qvxz9173 (talk) 18:04, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

What forum? the official website of a Political movement is NOT a forum. It's you that is vandalizing I doubt you even know who May Murr was or else you wouldnt even dare make this false complaint and its your arabist racist POV wont give up. http://books.google.co.uk/books?lr=&cd=1&id=RH5tAAAAMAAJ&dq=inauthor%3A%22Claremont+Research+and+Publications%22&q=May+Murr#search_anchor http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=1bgCAzR5V68C&pg=PA20&dq=May+Murr+Lebanon&lr=&cd=6#v=onepage&q=May%20Murr%20&f=false

You have obviously never heard of May Murr, since your NOT Lebanese have you read any of her work? The One Who Restored the Empire of the World to the Phoenicians? or Lebanon and Phoenicia? seriously have you not heard of her or something? or just looking for attention? Also She was part of the Guardians of the Cedars like Said Aql a right wing PHOENICIANIST Lebanese nationalist movement.♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 01:12, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

0003

[8] Revert of lower portion of this edit is explained above 0002. The source [9] states the following: "Myths seem to be an indispensible part of the creation of the modern state... And Lebanon was no exception... The myth, of course, was the distinctiveness, uniqueness and superiority of the Maronite sect, its mythical past in Mount Lebanon and even its different ancestry to its neighbours [being part of this myth]." --Qvxz9173 (talk) 02:27, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

This Wikipedia talk page is not a forum. Directly answer the issues presented with reliable sources and not with empty talk or random sources that just happen to contain key words but do not back you up at all. Your 2 links above are of no use. --Qvxz9173 (talk) 02:27, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

You didnt answer me Have you even heard of May Murr? if you did you would know she is NOT a Maronite. Said Aql is recognized as one of Lebanon's greatest poets and philosophers. You know how this is your whining about POV when your only adding the POV of a station itself that is unsourced in their claims only to attack (quite clearly) the Christians of Lebanon as racists. Al-Jazeera is a Pan-Arab nationalist station of course they will deny the existance of Lebanon and it's run by Islamist Khaleeji muslims ofcourse they are going to try and demonize the Lebanese christians who they sent billions in weapons for Arabs to fight against, it's the station's own bias and POV however the SCIENTIFIC study Pierre Zalloua has proven truths to the Phoenician traces in Lebanon. As I stated before the books who call it a myth were written before the study.Seriously if you want to reject the authencity of Phoenicianism do it on the Pheonicianism article that section is about the . However Al-Jazeera acknowledges despite it's common pan-arab rhetoric that christians feel indifferent to the arab label so that should be added not it's hateful ranting against christians.♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 02:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

0004

[10] Already responded to why a good portion of this should reverted above (see sections 0001-0003) (but will emphasize you can't just delete sourced attributed content just because you disagree with it). Your source [11] was added with paraphrase. Your two links [12] and [13] have been removed because it is nothing more than a May Murr keyword search with no substance. --Qvxz9173 (talk) 04:38, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

It is irrelevant who May Murr is, she is not one of the 3 mentioned in the source (the 3 who stood out the most in their promotion of Phoenicianism) in this source: Read the names the source provides. --Qvxz9173 (talk) 04:51, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

It's not Paraphraseed CIA web book clearly states that it's subjective to use the Arab term with christians since many consider themselves Phoenicians instead wikipedia is not against paraprhasing infact it's encouraged isntead of copying and pasting which is borderline plagiarism. You are adding UN-HiSTOrICAL WP:Soapbox by Al-Jazeera against Christians it's their POV demonizing a community merely for rejectinng Arabism.May Murr is mentioned in the book and being linked to the Guardians of the Cedars and the sources I provided stated she is linked with the group. Also it is revlevant who may Murr is since she is well known for her poems that romanticize Phoenicianism. Seriously about the politics of Lebanon concerning the fact the source was from 2004 when Pan-Arab Syria was ruling Lebanon with an iron fist and many of the Christian parties were banned until 2005 ♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 05:16, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Yasmina I didn't remove your paragraph, but please don't remove Q's paragraph, because he/she is using the same source you are using.George Al-Shami (talk) 23:08, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

If "miss-simworld" removes my paragraph it would be vandalism because the source actually says what I paraphrased. "Miss-simworld" is just dishonest and "In Lebanon many Maronites and other Lebanese Christians sects,feel a stronger link and cultural identification with Phoenicians and show pride in the belief that their ancestry is linked to the Phoenicians" is unattributed original research that is justified to be replaced with what the source actually says in [14]. There's a limit to how far appeasement works. --Qvxz9173 (talk) 01:06, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Because it's Al-Jazeera's WP:Soapbox theories and slander against Christians calling them racists for rejecting Arabism and thinking themselves superior to muslims, that POV have no place in the section however the fact it acknowledges that Christians reject Arabism does.♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 02:54, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

0005

[15] This edit is basically vandalism. This user failed to address and unable to address the lower part of this edit (see 0002 above) and therefore it is POV pushing of original research. Two paragraphs of cited material have been removed = content deletion vandalism. These links are just a keyword search with no substance (same links as above reinserted). [16][17]. Essentially a bad faith edit. --Qvxz9173 (talk) 01:06, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

It's not vandalism you just dont like it or the entire content in that section and are doing what you can to undermine it or have it removed , Who on earth are you to talk about pushing POV or vandalism. hey, Remember this? [18] [19] [20] [21] I urge editors and admins to see what you wrote on the article in February to see what a hypocrite you are and more importantly the real vandal here pushing for their own POV, also we all know you just the title changed back to only arab christians. I've explained why it was removed yet you keep complaining not even answering back to what I wrote that it's outdated or irrelevant. I hate edit wars but you seem to be doing whatever you can to needlessly continue one. ♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 06:22, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't need to respond to empty talk. I could pick anything from 0001 - 0005 and show you don't have a basis for it, such as (from 0002) Where in the following sources: [22] or [23] does it say "Phoenician genetic marker was found in all sects in Lebanon (including Maronites) and that it was equally distributed among sects,showing a common genetic link among most Lebanese." If you were truly honest and not a person with an agenda you will provide a concise direct response that settles it (unlikely) or just admit it is wp:or not found in the sources. --Qvxz9173 (talk) 07:39, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

It's quite clear you are after a needless edit war just to indemtidate others so the name will be changed back to Arab Christians only. dont even try and hide it. You sound like a malfunctioned bot who clearly is repeating the same things over again. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7791389.stm Yes writing that Lebanese (regardless their sect) share a common genetic roots (which is true) is part of an Agenda.You dont respond since you dont have an answer, you expect me to either write that the subject is fictitious or to copy and paste which is WP:Plagiarism.♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 08:26, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Your also deleted sources which state Lebanese Christians DO relate with being called Phoencians than Arab however put the [24] here is another one that you cant refute http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7791389.stm but funny you used un-historical WP:Soapbox claims by Al Jazeera that Lebanon was a made up creation by France, what does these lies claiming Lebanon is a fictious creation have to do with rejecting Arabism? It's not me with the agenda. ♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 08:31, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

(1) Providing quoted content from sources is not Plagiarism. Your new source [25] says "...the study has revealed that while one in 17 people across the Mediterranean carry the Phoenician gene, in Lebanon almost a third [not most as your claim states] of the population have Phoenician roots. Dr Zalloua says in Lebanon the Phoenician signature is distributed equally among different groups [both Christians and Muslims] and that the overall genetic make-up of the Lebanese is proving to be similar across various backgrounds." [not that Phoenician DNA is common to most Lebanese] (2) The two links/sources in 0002: [26] or [27] do not support what you have in 0002 and appears you just added them without reading them. (3) Provide a source for "The study also showed that Lebanese people from the coast of Lebanon and Syria were more likely to carry the Phoenician gene" (this is not even found in the new source you provided). (4) Prove that I deleted valid sources. (5) WP:SOAPBOX is not applicable and the Al-Jazeera source was provided by you, I'm just paraphrasing what it actually says. --Qvxz9173 (talk) 19:14, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Are you saying the CIA is not a realiable source, dont make me laugh. You still havent said anything about these edits, how on earth do you think you are in the position to talk about Civility or Vandalism considering you've done this? [28] [29] [30] [31] Not paraphrasing anything and copying and pasting ONLY sources is Plagiarism and shoddy editing. So what if other people in the Mediterranean have Phoenician ancestors why is that relevant to the section? The BBC link also shows a man stating he is proud if were to find out that he has Phoenician ancestors, wanna refute that aswell. So this backs up the part about pride Although I know arabists really cringe of the thought of how proud Lebanese are of the Phoenicians. Again you've shown yourself yet again to be a simpleminded person I never said a majority of Lebanese I said majority of the Lebanese sects (that isnt the same thing) do you know how many Sects live in Lebanon? the source clearly states their is a common genetic link via the Phoenicians between Lebanese of different faiths. Dont worry I dont blame you for not understanding this your a simple minded person after all. You keep only attacking this section which is actually the most and best sourced part in the entire of the article because being a radical Arabist who wants to force that label onto all Christians (as your previous edits of vandalism indicates). i provided to Al-Jazeera source to indicate that even a radical Arab station like Al-Jazeera acknowledges that christians differentiate from the Arab label, however note that I only used the quotes from people who participated in the documentary and not wrote what Al-Jazeera who clearly was only out to demonize Christians and their false history WP:Soapbox and [ what Al-Jazeera wrote and you added on why Christians reject Arabism and the history of Lebanon. Was purely opinionated and false.♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 09:30, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

(1) I kept CIA Source and added paraphrase. (2) This is not a forum about me. (3) Being proud of the possibility of having a distant Phoenician male ancestor not noteworthy. (4) You said (in 0002): "showing a common genetic link among most Lebanese", What is this common genetic link that most Lebanese have? (I refer you back to (1) in my previous paragraph) (5) Your sources in (2) from my previous paragraph are paraphrased as saying as such, you added these sources and they should be paraphrased correctly. (6) The Phoenician culture, pagan religion, and language no longer exist so how is "In Lebanon many Maronites and other Lebanese Christians sects, feel a stronger link and cultural identification with Phoenicians" possibly true with the density and pervasiveness of the Arabic culture and language in Lebanon? --Qvxz9173 (talk) 20:09, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

You didnt answer what did you have to say about those edits you wrote in the article? name calling groups of people? Why are you only concerned with this section when CLEARLY it's the most well sourced section in the entire article.There is very little Arabic Culture(Define this?) in Lebanon, that element is something the Muslims emphasis more on , language does not define the ethnic identity of a people. Before Islam majority of the Arabs were Pagans, are telling me Arab culture is dead too? CIA source was needlessly paraphrased. When it clearly states many Christians in Lebanon see themselves rather as Phoenicians than Arab. I am sorry If you dont like to hear this but this is true. I do not see myself as an Arab and never will. I dont see myself as a Phoenician either but I feel closer to that than I would ever Arab and many Christians feel the same in fact most.Christians prior the civil war stated the identity of Lebanon was Mediterranean and it's identity was Phoenician not arab only in face to please the Muslims, infact it was Muslims who demanded the Arab identity inflicted on Lebanon and Christians who fought against this. Even Joumblatt admitted the reason he fought Christians in Lebanon was in the name of Arabism, now if you knew what he did to Christins along with his allies in the name of Arabism than maybe you would begin to understand why most ordniary Lebanese are either apathetic or despise arab nationalism. To us it's what Zionism means to the Palestinians. I wrote in belief that their ancestors are the Phoenicians this indicates the subjectivity in It. I explained this to you before very few Christians in Lebanon have anything but antipathy for Arabism (since all it has aimed was to push them out of power and the country) in Lebanon regardless what their DNA may be they Phoenicians are an element of pride for Lebanese (especially Christians). Lebanese Genetics are mixed (but with very very little arab genes) the study showed that the Lebanese people DO share a common links. To say the Phoenician culture does not exist in Lebanon is simply not true the Phoenicians were great merchants and travelers this is the reason why millions of lebanese (apart from the wars incited by the Arab world) have travelled the World because the Phoenician culture did not die entirely. Many of our festivals play great tribute to the Legacy other civilizations (like the Romans) not only the Phoenicians have left in Lebanon. Hopefully one day Lebanon will be free to breathe more without being intemidated by Arabist bullying and pseudo-racism.♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 07:03, 15 March 2010 (UTC) ♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 07:03, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

0006

[32] You can't delete sourced content just because you disagree with it (especially if they were the same source that YOU provided) The full quoted paragraphs (which you lenghtened further) by E. Sakr are too long and need to be shortened and summarized. If people want to read these paragraphs from the interview they could click on the reference. Already explained the May Murr part in 0001 above. Why do you reject breaking that huge section in parts so it's easier to read? Provide a quote from these sources of where Lebanese Christians feel a stronger link and cultural identification with the Phoenicians? [33][34][35][36]. Also, read WP:TALK guidelines before even thinking about responding. The part about genetics should be kept only in the genetic studies section and shouldn't be used to lengthen the rejection of "arab identity" section. --Qvxz9173 (talk) 20:26, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

You obviously cant read, here

note: many Christian Lebanese do not identify themselves as Arab but rather as descendents of the ancient Canaanites and prefer to be called Phoenicians

[37]

While Christian schools tend to focus more heavily on the Phoenician past, which the Christian community here identifies with, the Muslim schools teach more about Lebanon under the Arabs. is this hard for you to understand?

Why do Arabists get so offended by Lebanese showing pride in their Pheonician past, does it intemidate you are something?

May Murr was a co-founder of the Guardians of the Cedars which is a Phoenicinist meovement (i've already provided sources for this) and many Murr is a phoenicianist poet.Stating Christians see themselves as superior to Muslims or that feeling identification with Phoenicians is a western plot claims by Al-Jazeera and the existance of Lebanon a myth and created by france. Is unhistorical POV and fictious.

Saying Lebanon did not exist prior 1920 isnt just POV it's historically false.

Etienne Sakr was a Key member on the Christian side and leader during the war he fought it , he lived through it, each word he states explains why there is a strong antipathy and dissosation from the Christian side regarding Arabism.

Stating that Lebanese have been arrested just for saying Lebanon is not Arab or the fact when he was fighting during the war with the Christians that the Arabs tried to push them out of their country is something very revelant to the article and tha the Arabization to him is the Islamization of Lebanon. It's giving an example of a viewpoint in why perhaps many Lebanese chrisitnas dissociate with the Arab label and have enemity with it.♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 21:18, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Learn to indent. None of your quotes support that Lebanese Christians CULTURALLY identify with Phoenicians or have a stronger link with them than any other identity. Phoenician past is history. The Al Jazeera source was used to support your erroneous original research claims, but when its paraphrased correctly, you removed it. Which May Murr source you already provided, you talking about these May Murr keyword searches [38] [39]? I told you, they are of no use. Your personal opinions do not belong on this talk page and are of no use to this article. --Qvxz9173 (talk) 22:05, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Why dont you just admit you want this article changed back again to only Arab Christians, Why dont you want to acknowledge many Christians do not use this label? thats all it is, a label, I accept that there are Christians who use it why cant you accept there are those who dont especially in Lebanon and Egypt. You have no right to forcefully label all Lebanese as Arabs in an article or call us racists for chosing and being proud of own ethnic identity? seriously grow up. May Murr was a Co-founder of the Guardians[40] and leading Phoencianist you dont want her added because she was an ORTHODOX christian like myself and dispells the myth that it's only a Maronite thing. Atleast be honest.the book sources suplentary indicate her connection also to the Guardians and her views that the Lebanese are descended by the Phoenicians. What is your problem with Lebanese showing recogntion of the Phoenician legacy in Lebanon, Why dont you Arabs (or Arabists) understand, Lebanon doesnt and belong to you or Syria. It belongs only to the Lebanese people. It's culture, it's history and achievements and most importantly pride. Yes they do and you are clearly in serious denial, it's not just part of our history even now the Phoenician legacy is evident in how Lebanese travel the world and are reknown commerce workers.Did you not understand the BBC source well enough or how about the CIA? the fact is Al-Jazeera stating Lebanon did exist prior is false not even POV purely false. My personal opinions? what about his [41] [42] [43] [44] btw it's funny you talk about whats not in the article when added the guy from marada is a promminent Maronite lol this is your pov trying to increase the legitmacy of the source.♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 22:23, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

I refer you back to 0001 you provided same link again. The rest is just your opinion which is of no use to this article. There's no point in constantly reposting these 4 links of my old edits (2nd one being nothing more than a correction of a spelling mistake) --Qvxz9173 (talk) 00:45, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Reffering to Christians who dont accept Arabism or the label as a racist biggoted vocal minority who pretend not be arabs is not spelling correction it's inflamotory and disgustingly POV and what's more shocking you added this to the article yet you think you are in position to even dare question the credibility of my section?.♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 18:35, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

You use this ":" to indent. Not a Spelling Correction?. I was not referring to legitimate Arabic-speaking Christians who do not identify as Arab. Now stop violating WP:TALK guidelines and explain your recent ongoing edits. --Qvxz9173 (talk) 19:22, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

You still added it too the article unacceptable abusive insults and language please dont even bother denying it we know who you were reffering too, the evidence is there you clearly have issues dont hide behind wiki rules falsely when you clearly have broken them yourself.♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 23:46, 18 March 2010 (UTC) ♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 23:46, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Christians saying Allah before Muhammed

I do not think the book "Is the Father of Jesus the God of Muhammad?: understanding the differences ..." by Timothy George is enough reason for saying Christians used the word Allah for God before Muhammed. George does not reference his claim, and his book has a clear agenda of reconciling Christians and Muslims. A pre-islamic source is needed for such a claim. If one is not found, the claim should be removed from this article.Letriste1977 (talk) 17:00, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Allah simply means God. What other word would you suspect? "Cheeseball"? "Strawberry Cake"?Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 17:13, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Christians and Alawites also use the word "rab", don't know what the distinction is, or if Muslims ever use it. FunkMonk (talk) 20:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Egyptians do NOT self-identify as Arabs

When a sentence in the opening paragraph reads:

Large numbers of self-identified Arab Christians are found in the Southwest Asia, particularly in Egypt etc

then the least that can be said about this sentence is that it is misleading and erroneous! Firstly, Egypt is NOT located in Southwest Asia. Secondly, and more importantly, Egyptian Christians do NOT self-identify as Arabs (see here). If you want to add Egypt and Egyptians to this articles, it MUST be mentioned that they are only Arabic-speaking (and only in Arabic-speaking countries) and that they do NOT self-identify as Arabs. They has been discussed before and agreed upon. --λⲁⲛτερⲛιξ^[talk] 10:43, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

That does not explain why you removed the numbers for Egypt from the infobox of an article that includes "Arabic speaking" in the title. And you do not speak for all Copts. You are correct that a number of Copts do not identify as Arab, but many do identify as Arab. You have consistently sought to push the view that no Copt is an Arab strictly on the basis that you do not consider yourself an Arab. That is not acceptable. nableezy - 11:13, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

As you say, "they are only Arabic-speaking". Let us not bamboozle the lay reader by saying "although [Copts] speak Masri, they are not Arabs"; we should be transparent and say they speak Egyptian Arabic. Note how Wikipedia redirects the term Masri! NebY (talk) 19:12, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

The language is called Masri. It's that simple. --λⲁⲛτερⲛιξ^[talk] 20:47, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

First, in English the common language of Egypt is generally called Arabic or - as in the title of its article on this, the English language Wikipedia - Egyptian Arabic. Second, to say "although they speak Y-ish they are not X" is unnecessarily obscure to the lay reader when we can say "although they speak X-ish they are not X". Third, please consider that to pile evasion of saying Copts speak Arabic on the repetition that Cobts are not Arabs in so many places in this article lends the whole a tendentious air that can have an effect on the reader that is quite the reverse of your intention. NebY (talk) 08:44, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Armenians?

If Copts, Syriacs, Assyrians, Chaldeans, and Maronites are included in this article as Arabic-speaking Christians, why aren't Armenians? After all the Armenians are just as Arab as the aforementioned ethnicities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.243.108.188 (talk) 06:12, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Syriacs should be excluded along with Armenians, but the others only have Arabic as their first language. FunkMonk (talk) 16:30, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree that Syriacs, Armenians and Assyrians/Chaldeans cannot be considered Arabs or native Arabic-speakers by any stretch of the imagination. --λⲁⲛτερⲛιξ^[talk] 16:45, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

When I say Syriac, it includes all the silly off-shoots, Chaldean/Assyrian, whatever. FunkMonk (talk) 16:52, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Copts do not self identify as Arabs

...and this fact must be mentioned in the initial introductory box. If you disagree, please post your reasoning here. --λⲁⲛτερⲛιξ^[talk] 14:40, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Then find sources that say all of them don't identify as Arabs. I bet you can't, but it's better than unsourced statements. In fact, many do identify as Arabs on whatever grounds. FunkMonk (talk) 16:54, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

The article linked in the heading is filled with such sources. --λⲁⲛτερⲛιξ^[talk] 17:04, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Copts

It seems that you are trying to isolate the Copts from the region and the arabs as much as possible, even you dont want to put Egyptian Arabic because of the word "Arabic" how funny is that. However i agree that some copts dont consider themselves as arabs but i dont see the need of mentioning it in the population column since it was mentioned more than 3 times in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexandrian10 (talk • contribs) 23:28, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

I can agree about the Masri vs. Egyptian Arabic piece, but I clearly disagree with the need to mention that Copts do not identify as Arabs in the population column. As you can see from Coptic identity, this is very much pertinent to the way Copts perceive themselves. As I mentioned on your talk page, other users agree with this point of view as well --λⲁⲛτερⲛιξ^[talk] 23:51, 24 December 2010 (UTC)