Talk:Swastika

the swastika comes from Ancient India

I am happy with this statement, but i provided a link from youtube that had a video that had this. And does anyone still have the link? Because I dont want someone taking this out of the article because there is no link. 71.105.87.54 (talk) 18:48, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

How difficult can it be to understand WP:CITE? I have asked for a reference that unambiguously establishes evidence of the swastika from Neolithic India about five times on this talkpage. So far, the oldest "Indian" swastika we are aware of is from the 3rd millennium BC, i.e. as part of Indus Valley inscriptions. Please understand that just repeating a claim is not helpful. Providing youtube videos of other people repeating the same claim also isn't helpful. --dab (𒁳) 07:14, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

It was cited. Like many times on wikipedia it did ger cited. But someone and / or some people decided to take it out then. And someimes when you complain about things like this, no one helps you. But you are replying so thank you then. And it did get cited.....and by the way.....even if it didnt get cited, this own article admits that it is in Hinduism. And on Hinduism page it is mentioned that it is the oldest religion in the world then. And where is Hindusim near by? India and the surronding areas then. So isn't it fair to mention that the Swastika comes from Ancient India then here ? ? ? ?  ? ? ? ? 71.105.87.54 (talk) 23:02, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

sorry, but this is nonsense. Read the article. The term "svastika" even in Sanskrit appears only in the Common Era. The swastika symbol is not mentioned in the Vedas, or in any Hindu context predating the decline of Buddhism in India. Even if there are Neolithic swastikas in India (which remains unsubstantiated), this would have nothing to do with Hinduism. The fact is, that whatever the antiquity of the symbol, and however it came to be a symbol used in Buddhism, the Hindu swastika was adopted from Buddhism at about the beginning of the Common Era. --dab (𒁳) 17:41, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Where in the world are you getting your research? Hinduism was here before Buddhism. Hinduism had the Swastika before Hindu scripture was written. Hinduism was with the Aryans. Aryans are some of the original people who used the Swastika, and who had Hinduism. What your saying is that there was no Swastika in India and HInduism, and then it came to Buddhism, and then HInduism adopted it? What? 71.106.83.19 (talk) 00:15, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Swastika is Arabian and Arab.

Swastika is Arabian and Arab.

The older Swastika in the world was found in Samarra in Iraq, Arabia peninsula inside the Hassuna culture which is identified with proto Arab (aka proto semite). http://www.newsnfo.co.uk/pages/swastika%20large%20plate%20book%20pic.htm

So please correct this article.

Humanbyrace (talk) 19:20, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Your url has a picture and a claim that a swastika symbol was found on neolithic pottery from the "Hassuna/Samarra Period, 6500 BCE - 5500 BCE". Three points,

1. newsnfo.co.uk isn't a quotable source, the source attributed is "The Origins of Civililization: The Ancient Near East. Paris: Terrail, 1998, pg 34." I believe the point referenced to this work is that "swirling patterns in chocolate-brown are typical of the Samarran style." What we have here is just an instance of such a "swirling pattern", picked out because it happens to look like a swastika.
2. this is from the same period as the Vinca swastikas, and should be inserted there
3. the period in question has nothing to do with "Semitic", we are talking about the pre-Sumerian Ubaid period in Mesopotamia.

--dab (𒁳) 07:18, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

But before that it was used in India and Hinduism. 71.105.87.54 (talk) 23:03, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Samarran swastika is still older than Vinca one (by Carbon datation) and is Arabian (ie from Arabian peninsula) and probably according to a number of linguists and archeologs Ubaid and Kish culture were speaking a Semitic/Parasemitic tongue that is visible in Semitic substratum in Sumerian.

Thank you for your attention.

Humanbyrace (talk) 07:38, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

You are most welcome to cite a quotable source to establish this in the article. I seem to be able to find some references to a swastika on Samarra culture pottery, but they seem to date it to the 5th, not the 6th millennium BC. --dab (𒁳) 17:21, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

The book I have is in Arabic but I think Carbon datations could establish which one is the older (I hope it will be the Iraqi one so that aryanists nazists and other racists got another strike after the one of the discovery of Hitler being possibly berber) Humanbyrace (talk) 18:45, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for my precedent comments. The Arabian Swastika of Samarra in Iraq is the first Swastika , see the book below

http://books.google.com/books?id=MdwtB-RSOSoC&pg=PA33&dq=hassuna+culture+swastika&hl=tr&ei=W_eMTMWOBo_HswbR1-SSAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=hassuna%20culture%20swastika&f=false

Humanbyrace (talk) 20:31, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

I love how Arabic people try to rob Persian culture. The swastika symbol originates from the old Persian religion of Mitra. It is called the "Wheel of Mitra" and is used by Persians as well as Indians today. You forget that the Persian empire stretched across Iraq. So Arabs, if they use the symbol at all (not likely), got it from the Persians - so did the Indo-Aryans who invaded Northern India. Many Northern Indians are closely related to Iranian peoples. Arabs did not create the swastika symbol. The symbol has always been attributed to Mitra, Iranian peoples, as well as a good luck symbol in India. There are books on the subject, and I have never read anything by a reputable scholar claiming such nonsense. I see you are spreading your revisionist propaganda on several Wikipedia talk pages. CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 21:58, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Are you serious!?, I'am not Arab and there is no Persian or Arabic or English cultures but regional ones. At those times Indo-Europeans did not even existed let alone Indo-Aryans let alone Iranians and Swastika was and is used by many folks independantly of their mothertongue. ie The Swastika of Samarra in Iraq is ANTERIOR TO INDO-EUROPEANS, INDO-IRANIANS, IRANIANS, MITRA, PERSIAN EMPIRE ETC...IT DATES TO 6000 BC well thousands of years before even the attestation of indo-iranian mitannis in Syria let alone iranians let alone persian empire.

You did not choose your persian mother tongue nor you race nor you religion so please stop playing absurd nationalism.

The Persians came very latedly to middle east (from Anatolia via Caucasus and Turkmenistan then Iran plateau) and were few numbring illitrate nomads that took script , culture and official languages as well as alphabet and religions (polytheism then monotheism) from the local well established Semites aka Arabianites. Humanbyrace (talk) 10:26, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

can you please stop rambling and present a quotable source on the point that "The Swastika of Samarra in Iraq [...] DATES TO 6000 BC"? If you do, we can carry it. If you don't, you are just wasting people's time. --dab (𒁳) 14:35, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Come now "human-by-race", you are the one who claimed in this section-heading that Swastikas are "Arab", yet you now proclaim that "At those times Indo-Europeans did not even existed let alone Indo-Aryans let alone Iranians and Swastika was and is used by many folks independantly of their mothertongue." Well, if Indo-Europeans did not even existed, Arabs certainly did not existed either. You can't have it one way and not the other. So far, your only citation is a book called "Myth from the Ice Age to Mickey Mouse", which may be useful for uncontested facts, but any book that covers such a stretch of time is not a very good source. The text states "among the various designs [of the Halaf-Hassuna-Samarra culture] are the first examples of the swastika. In later cultures this widespread symbol represents the cosmos. Its occurence in Samarra pottery of the sixth millennium B.C.E indicates awareness of cosmic dimensions. Presumably the earliest cosmologies were composed about this time." This is such a compendium of non-sequiturs and errors, it's hard to know where to begin. In what sense does the swastika ever "represent the cosmos"? Even it it did, why would that mean that earlier examples of the shape have the same meaning, allowing us to leap to the conclusion that "cosmologies" were created at this period? It's like saying "among the various designs are the first examples of the cross. In later cultures this widespread symbol represents self-sacrifice. Its occurence in the sixth millennium B.C.E indicates awareness of the concept of unselfishness." There's nothing wrong with adding that this shape appears in ancient near eastern pottery, but that has nothing to do with "Arabs". It may or may not link to the later Indo-Iranian use of the symbol, but we need proper sources. Paul B (talk) 15:06, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

I think this is another case of wasted effort, Paul. WP:AHI simply will not miraculously make people better editors. --dab (𒁳) 15:56, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

I can find a number of sources that date the Samarra bowl to about 4000 BC, and which also state that the symbol is found very rarely in Mesopotamia, essentially on a couple of pieces of painted pottery, and in a few early seal impressions. That's it. The symbol disappears throughout the 2nd millennium BC and re-appears in a single isolated instance in a Neo-Assyrian stone slab. Sure, the Samarra swastika is "anterior to Indo-Europeans", but it is also an isolated ornament, and about a millennium later than the Vinca symbols. The Vinca symbols are of course also "anterior to Indo-Europeans", for whatever this is worth, but it appears to be our earliest documented instance of the symbol worldwide. --dab (𒁳) 14:54, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Swastika of Samarra fits with proto Arabianic/Semitic speaking folk but for tempral and spatial reasons not with ie ones (at those time proto indo-europeans were a single unit in Halaf culture in levant)

Swastika of Vinca is pre ie (perhaps pelasgian/para pelasgian) anyway wht are your source that Swastika of Samarra dates to 4000 bc and Vinca dates to later because mine says Samarra's Swastika dates to 6000 bc.

Also Vinca swastika is just a symbol (if you take a look at ancient Arabic alphabets you will see that ancient arabs had this same symbol with the sound "t") very different from the very sophisticated Samarra's Swastika which is one of the first pottery artwork in human history (if not the first)

Vinca=>arbitrary symbol found also in ancient Arabic script

Samarra's=>"real" swastika (though call it "magrawaramz"=Arabic for cosmologic symbol) and according to my sources older than vinca's one (which still is not a real "swastika" but an arbitrary symbol graffiti by chance)

Please correct the article dear mr dab

See ancient Arab "swastika" letter "t" here below (that was borrowed through kadmos the Arab to illiterate Greeks)

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/5307/writing3a.jpg

(the 3 rd letter "t" from top to bottom)

Humanbyrace (talk) 19:49, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

The first source speaks for "late sixth or fifth millenium BC" see below ie well before Vinca "symbol" and not "swastika"=>magrawaramz

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/SwastikatextSamarraIraq5000BC.jpg

Humanbyrace (talk) 19:54, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Apart from the Mickey Mouse book, do you have any evidence that the Samarra's=>"real" swastika, as you put it, rather than an mere appealing design? Paul B (talk) 19:59, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

The first source speaks for "late sixth or fifth millenium BC" see below ie well before Vinca "symbol" and not "swastika"=>magrawaramz

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/SwastikatextSamarraIraq5000BC.jpg

Humanbyrace (talk) 19:54, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Humanbyrace (talk) 19:54, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Here below another source that takes the date back to 6300 BC (by far older than Vinca's symbol)

http://www.newsnfo.co.uk/pages/swastika%20large%20plate%20book%20pic.htm

Book picture of Plate with Painted Birds Fishing and Central Swastika, ceramic, Samarra, 6,300-6,000 BCE, d: 27.7 cm Notice around the swastika the bird is also a crocodile ( metamorphosis ) catching fish on the inside and outside ( crocodiles represented the military in the past ) plate picture From the Hassuna/Samarra Period, 6500 BCE - 5500 BCE .Found in provenance unknown Ceramic production appeared in the ancient Near East towards the end of the 8th millenium BCE, and towards the 6th millenium BCE painted ceramics were common. In southern Mesopotamia the Samarra culture, and in northern Mesopotamia the Hassuna and Samarra cultures, produced finely decorated ceramics in the seventh and early 6th centuries BCE, showing the distribution of Halaf and early Ubaid cultures. Stylized animals such as the above birds and fish, and swirling patterns in chocolate-brown are typical of the Samarran style. Caubet, Annie and Patrick Pouyssegur. Source." The Origins of Civililization: The Ancient Near East. Paris: Terrail, 1998, pg 34.

I think know you can correct the article otherwise you will lower the standard of wikipedia and makes it irrelevant for HONEST UNNATIONALIST OBJECTIVE NEUTRAL SMART PEOPLE WHO KNOW THAT NO ONE DID CHOOSE HIS RELIGION/RACE/COUNTRY/MOTHER TONGUE

Please be accurate at least one time in your life what are your personal gain in distorting reality in your short meaningless (at the end of the day) life!

Also there are other very old Arabian "swastikas" magarwaramz (from magara=cosmos, wa=logy[from wayd], ramz=symbol) see below

http://www.pghwwjd.com/ge-gu-riji19.htm

http://www.au.epochtimes.com/b5/6/1/6/n1180107.htm

http://hi.baidu.com/enshilinmengxiang/blog/item/65c910b6723aea788ad4b2fd.html

Humanbyrace (talk) 20:10, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

The first source clearly describes the motif as decorative rather than symbolic. The others are irrelevant. Paul B (talk) 20:14, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Please be objective and dont turn wikipedia to lolpedia

How it cames it is only decorative, it's symbolic connected with middle eastern religions and mythologies that were to diffuse throughout the world in the form of shamanism, animism, budhism, hinuduism, monotehism, manichanism etc... etc...

Please read some books about comparative mythology.

Mythology starts here in Anatolia-fertile crescent with first civilised men+discovery of agriculture+discovery of metallurgy, alphabet, script, animal husbandry,pottery, megalithic buildings , paganism, indo-european religions and deities etc...and was continual human waves pumping that provided Europe, western Asia and north Africa (where there was primittive hunter gatherer cave men like cromagnon with primitive life and primtive languages of a dozen of onomatopeic basic sounds and that's why first cave men europeans gets submerged linguistically first by neolithic farmers (R1b hg) then by Indo-Europeans [J2 and indo-europeanised R1a, G and E1b]) with civilised humans due to neolithic revolution and the consequent diffusion of cultures ideas and civilised men.

Magarwaramz/Swastika was clearly a mythologic religious as its written in the sources I provided and the books I read, you are not allowed to speak about things you ignore such as mythology, cosmology etc...

You are not going to say that there was diffusion in the opposite direction (ie from unhabitated ice aged Europe to Asia)!!!

Crocodiles in that plate has their particular fantastic meanings as well other elements in all those pots with swastika as you can read below:

"Notice around the swastika the bird is also a crocodile ( metamorphosis ) catching fish on the inside and outside ( crocodiles represented the military in the past ) plate picture "

Humanbyrace (talk) 20:36, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

There is NO source that the Vinca tablet that contained the swastika-like graffiti dates to 6000 bc, while I clearly provided sources that Hassuna cosmological symbol is dated to 6300 bc, also the article says that swastikas disappeared from western asia for a long while=>THIS IS NOT CORRECT AS I PROVIDED LINKS FOR OTHER POTS AND CLAYS FROM HASSUNA CULTURE THAT CONTAINS COSMOLOGICAL SWASTIKA, and also the swastika symbol in the old Arabic alphabet.

Humanbyrace (talk) 10:39, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Someone needs to edit the German version

I'm posting this on the English version because I can't speak German and because of sh**** translators. The Nazi flag is illegal in Germany, and people in Germany obviously go on German Wikipedia, however German Wikipedia shows the Nazi flag on the page, wouldn't that be illegal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.115.131 (talk) 20:19, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Have a look at Swastika#Germany (more in Strafgesetzbuch section 86a). This explains the German law on the matter. Wikipedia should be OK as there is an exemption for use for scholarly and religious reasons. That covers things like proper history books and serious encyclopaedia articles. --DanielRigal (talk) 22:38, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

also, Wikipedia as a whole is subject to Florida law. German Wikipedia is no exception. So even if German Wikipedia has content illegal in Germany, it's not a problem. German authorities can, and did in the past[1][2], block access to Wikipedia in Germany, or to the redirect domain wikipedia.de. This is a problem of Internet censorship in Germany on equal footing with the Chinese government blocking access to Wikipedia in China, not a problem of the Wikimedia foundation. --dab (𒁳) 17:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

The first source speaks for "late sixth or fifth millenium BC" see below ie well before Vinca "symbol" and not "swastika"=>magrawaramz

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/kachina2012/SwastikatextSamarraIraq5000BC.jpg

Humanbyrace (talk) 19:54, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Humanbyrace (talk) 19:54, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Here below another source that takes the date back to 6300 BC (by far older than Vinca's symbol)

http://www.newsnfo.co.uk/pages/swastika%20large%20plate%20book%20pic.htm

Book picture of Plate with Painted Birds Fishing and Central Swastika, ceramic, Samarra, 6,300-6,000 BCE, d: 27.7 cm Notice around the swastika the bird is also a crocodile ( metamorphosis ) catching fish on the inside and outside ( crocodiles represented the military in the past ) plate picture From the Hassuna/Samarra Period, 6500 BCE - 5500 BCE .Found in provenance unknown Ceramic production appeared in the ancient Near East towards the end of the 8th millenium BCE, and towards the 6th millenium BCE painted ceramics were common. In southern Mesopotamia the Samarra culture, and in northern Mesopotamia the Hassuna and Samarra cultures, produced finely decorated ceramics in the seventh and early 6th centuries BCE, showing the distribution of Halaf and early Ubaid cultures. Stylized animals such as the above birds and fish, and swirling patterns in chocolate-brown are typical of the Samarran style. Caubet, Annie and Patrick Pouyssegur. Source." The Origins of Civililization: The Ancient Near East. Paris: Terrail, 1998, pg 34.

I think know you can correct the article otherwise you will lower the standard of wikipedia and makes it irrelevant for HONEST UNNATIONALIST OBJECTIVE NEUTRAL SMART PEOPLE WHO KNOW THAT NO ONE DID CHOOSE HIS RELIGION/RACE/COUNTRY/MOTHER TONGUE

Please be accurate at least one time in your life what are your personal gain in distorting reality in your short meaningless (at the end of the day) life!

Also there are other very old Arabian "swastikas" magarwaramz (from magara=cosmos, wa=logy[from wayd], ramz=symbol) see below

http://www.pghwwjd.com/ge-gu-riji19.htm

http://www.au.epochtimes.com/b5/6/1/6/n1180107.htm

http://hi.baidu.com/enshilinmengxiang/blog/item/65c910b6723aea788ad4b2fd.html

Humanbyrace (talk) 20:06, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Do you need a tissue to wipe the foam from your mouth? Paul B (talk) 21:37, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

You are incorrect, I dont give shit about swastika mwastika and all those things and I am hyper calm, I just want that this encyclopaedia remains serious and have accurate articles because sadly there are many falsifications due to absurd nationalist mottos when no one of us choosed his tribe , please take a look below to understand me.

http://anthrocivitas.net/forum/showthread.php?p=87900#post87900

The remarkable German Historian Leopold Von Ranke has a very famous (and accurate) quotation : "nicht das Amt die Vergangenheit zu richten, die Mitwelt zum Nutzen zukünftiger Jahre zu belehren, sondern bloß zu zeigen, wie es eigentlich gewesen " ie "(History) is not to judge the past nor to judge the contemporary world to take lessons for the future years, but to show just how it really happened"

Manytimes (some) persons when studiying history and reading historcial documents can fill embarassed when an ethnicity (or many ethnicities)/religion/race/country he is so emotionally attached (though even if a human usually does not choose those criteria except perhaps for the religion) has many "blackspots" in its history (analogously sentiments such as pride and relief could be feeled when studiying the "lightspots"_though many times those "light spots" could be seen in fact as "black spots"[see invasions, war successes, empire and imperialism]especailly by the "opposite" "ennemy" "human group_and also it could be that another person from the "opponent" side gets unhappy about the "accomplishements" and happy about the "catastrophes" underwent by the "opposite" side)

Those attitudes (which are evidently unhealthy and against humanity brotherhood) could be nefast when they are the leitmotiv of some scholars to write/rewrite history=>not accurate datas (that's the only detal that count in reality) and biased history (with history being all the time before the current instant) writings and interpretations (this later consequence is not important since all of us know that there is no "angel" and "devils" in our world)

Also I should say that racism is so absurd and unethical as no one of us could choose his/her race, religion, country, ethnicity/mother tongue etc...(and even if he chooses what's the matter) That same racism sadly is present implicitly or explciitly in the works of some scientists especially the ones dealing with soft sciences such as history, linguistic etc... Some people gets very angry for things like stating that his language has some foreign "loan words" or stating that his language is similar to one spoken by "wogs" (in both ways as when I told to some Somali students that the Somali language was from the same language family as Arabic and other Semites they get angry and directly argued that there was no relation between the 2)!? What's the matter to act such way!?

And that's why I'm taking many claims on anthropological and linguistical forums that are not accepted by the scientific community by great precaution and even some works of some "professors" could well be cherrypicked/manipulated/with agenda/subjective... From experience it seems that the liberal and left wing professors are the most ethical and close to the facts.

I remember on wikipedia some users get angry and was in the defensive when stating the historical and atetsted fact that "hittites came to Anatolia from south" I wonder why!?

And generally speaking a number of influencing wikipedia users are manipulating/cherrypicking sadly while they should act ethically and professionaly.

Also I noted that some peoples want to show that their "kind" is connected to another "kind" (they see as the "übermensch") and in the same time try to obscure more close connections with another kind they see as "altmensch" and there are also someones who want to portray their "kind" or "country/region" as the "mother of civilisation" while it's known that there is no such things ; all of us have brains and are equal humans and if a "rich" "civilisation" started in Greece or Egypt for example this has nothing to do with qualities of those folks but it's very arbitrary and mere coincidence besides the fact that saying that in X place there was a "rich civilisation" is also subjective and beyond all meaningless since even taking "pride" in self "accomplishments" is absurd and illogical let alone taking "pride" in some "achievements" of some obscure very ancient persons that by pure chance afforded to built a pyramid or whatsever only because they share the same region or a close language. Also someones try to minimise the "achievements" of a portion of their ancestors to attribute them to another ancestral folk albeit ironcially it is in reality the former who are responsible of those "achievements" as an example is some people from Italy minimising Etruscan "achievements" and attribute them to Romans while most likely they do descend from Etruscans more than they do from Romans (who take the credits only cos they "afforded" to "impose" their language on local folk)

But one who will looks at Turk history and Arab history (especially before Islam, for example in the different Assyrian-Arab wars many of the Arab[aribi,arabu,urbi] rulers were female queens such as Zebibi, Shamsi, Teelhunu;ancient Arabs also aided Assyrians in their was against Syrian mini states as well as Cyrus against Babylonians and Cambyse and Alexandres against Egyptians...) will see that "Turk and Arab history" is no less "bloody" nor no less "accomplishing" than "iranian one" or also "assyrian one" etc...

In wikipedia for example there are such a bias (especially by the modertaor Dbachman) which is lowering the quality of that free encyclopaedia and is absurd, unethical and inaccurate (as I explained) in the first post. For example: stating that Farabi was Persian (even one Farabi if he would be Iranian would be most likely Khwarezmian or Soghdian and not Persian_Khwarezmian is closer to the Pashtu language and is more distant to Persian than Arabic is from Hebrew or Turkish is distinct from Qazakh) when he has clearly Turkic ancestors with Turkic names and was born in actıual Kazakhistan arguing such things that Farabi had a "persian culture" (when he was not even Persian by ethnicity/mothertongue)as if there was "persian, arabic, tagalog cultures" ie culture that coincide 100% with the mother tongue/ethnicity and not(which is the case)with region.(I can also argue that Iranians came lately to middle east and were essentially nomads that took a lot from the "Sumerian","Elamite","Babylonian" culture; which is not accurate too of course) This is only an example but there are many and very clear bias "against Arab&Turks" in the wiki articles dealing with Arab, Turk and Persians. For example if a personality is born in actual Iran (or even sogdiana, khwarezm...) then it is automatically Iranian (even before the arrival of Iranians to what was to be called Iran)and in the same times if a personality is born outside "iran" and even if it descends from non iranian ancestors and has a non iranian language as its mothertongue then it is still called iranian for whatever reason and such absurd claims as "persian culture"...

Humanbyrace (talk) 10:51, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

tl;dr -- please read and finally respect WP:TALK. --dab (𒁳) 09:20, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Samarra bowl

I have now obtained an image of the Samarra bowl. Now, it turns out that the swastika in its center is "partially restored", i.e. it may as well have been a product of the imagination of the restaurators in the Berlin Staatliches Museum than in that of the Chalcolithic artist. A 1981 article in fact complains about this, and the lack of proper documentation explaining that it is a restoration.

Stanley A. Freed, Research Pitfalls as a Result of the Restoration of Museum Specimens, Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, Volume 376, The Research Potential of Anthropological Museum Collections pages 229–245, December 1981[3]

I think it is no coincidence that the excavator (Ernst Herzfeld) "neglected" to indicate this fact in the sensational description of a Neolithic swastika discovered in the 1910s and described in 1930, i.e. at the very height of the swastika fad of the early 20th century. --dab (𒁳) 08:47, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

no mention of Ichigo's Bankai?

Bleach is a widely viewed anime. In the manga it is evident that the swastika is used; likely due to Japan being Buddhist ZEN!--Elvenmuse (talk) 22:28, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Differences between the left and right facing svastika versions

I guess that the both different versions of this symbol have OPPOSITE meanings as well, is this assumption correct?

I'd greatly appreciate a short summery of the historic and ancient use of those two different versions.

Thank you very much in advance! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.168.201.95 (talk) 22:33, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Your assumption is incorrect, if what you mean is "facing one way is good and the other way is evil". --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 22:48, 8 February 2011 (UTC)