Talk:Bachelor's degree

Portugal

Until 2 years ago a "bacharelato" was the standard 3/4 year course ... only 5 year courses were called "licenciatura". due to the "bologna process" the "bacharelato" naming was droped and 3/4 years courses started to be called "licenciatura" while 5 years course started to be called "mestrado" (master) ... eventually all previously atributed 5 years courses were given a "Master" post-grade. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sotavento (talk • contribs) 22:28, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

BIS

BIS can also be a Bachelor of International Studies in a number of Australian universities possibly others. http://www.flinders.edu.au/courses/ugrad/bachelor/bis.htm

121.45.42.227 (talk) 11:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Canada

Canada

"Depending on the province, a bachelor's degree takes either three or four years to complete. Traditionally, a three-year degree is also called a pass degree or general degree, and a four-year degree is also called an honours degree. In provinces that grant three-year bachelor's degrees, a student may choose to complete an additional year of studies to obtain a four-year honours degree."

I go to UVic, and a general degree relates only to the lack of a specific program of study. It's still four years. A four year degree is NOT an honours degree here, unless it meets very specific course and GPA guidelines.

"An honours bachelor's degree is generally a prerequisite for admission into graduate studies in Canada."

This isn't true at all. In the arts, a graduate school cares more about completion of a degree in combination with a submitted portfolio. In other areas of study, sometimes only GPA and the application information matter. I think everything in the Canada section should be revamped. Maybe with some actual sources rather than some know-it-all.64.251.85.182 (talk) 18:34, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

In Ontario, an "Honours" Bachelor of Arts/Science is simply a four year Bachelor's degree (distinguishing them from the three-year programs).

At every Canadian University I know of, an honours degree requires an individual to take a higher than normal number of courses (for example, sixty credit hours instead of thirty six under a credit hours program) in a specific program, and to achieve a minimum GPA. Most also require the completion of a thesis. 67.68.24.58 (talk) 22:12, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Older discussions

The only part of canada that a Honours degree requires an additional year of study is Ontario. In every other province a major, general or honours degree requires the same number of years of study i.e. 3 years in Quebec or 4 years in R.O.C. (Excluding Ontario. I would also like to note that in the US they do have honours degrees and the distinction is determined typically by completion of a theses in addition to extra course work in the major concentration and/or a higher min GPA, this is ture of Harvard but also McGill and UBC in Canada. Soul City

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is this the right page to explain the UK system of firsts, 2.1, 2.2, third, etc? If not, where? -- Tarquin

Go ahead, please. I've got no idea what this is, but I'm curious. And if it really doesa not fit in, we'll eventually find some other place.--68.41.122.213 07:46, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

By the way, in German-speaking countries there is no tradition of Bachelor degrees, but at least in Austria they were introduced by law some years ago. This might also be mentioned, but I'm no expert in this field. --KF 22:00, 15 Oct 2003 (UTC)

A-DOT----

Should the UK degree classification system mention the percentages associated with each degree? They are:

• 70%-100% First Class Honours (1st)[[]]
• 60%-69% Upper Second Class Honours (2:1)
• 50%-59% Lower Second Class Honours (2:2)
• 45%-49% Third Class Honours (3rd)
• 40%-44% Pass without honours
• 0%-39% Fail

Of course there is some variation between universities (mainly the Scottish ones), but the above system is generally used. Furthermore, we might have to explain to our American chums about the low sounding percentages (that a mark in the mid-sixties is actually very good and that marks above 75% are virtually unheard of).

I also think that this school be spun out into a seperate page (UK Bachelor Degree Honours System?), but it would need to be fuller than it is at present, including full details of the (Scottish) variations.

-- Anon.

Go ahead, be bold! --Menchi 19:02, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I was bold :-) - moved to British Bachelor's degree classification.

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In American English these designations are almost invariably written with the terminal period. Also, some universities (most notably MIT) call their B.S. an S.B. instead (and similarly for Master's degrees with S.M. instead of M.S.). Curiously enough, the doctoral degree Sc.D. or D.Sc., although issued much less frequently by American universities, when it is issued is usally abbreviated with "Sc." rather than just "S." as is used for the lesser degrees. Finally, what's the relationship between this topic and the Diplomate designations I see in some European countries?

(As an aside, MIT probably has one of the most complex degree structures of any US university. In electrical engineering, for example, for increasing terms of study one may receive an S.B. [four years], an M.Eng. [five years], an S.M. [six or seven years], an E.E. [same], and any one of several flavors of doctorate. A former colleague of mine actually got most of those, although it took him the better part of fifteen years to do it, stopping for work along the way.) 18.24.0.120 01:50, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I think there should be some mention of the B.Phil, a degree awarded at many undergraduate honors colleges.

I've added it, as well as turning hyphens into proper dashes, correcting the abreviations by adding punctuation (which is certainly the official style for most if not all universities), and correcting the abbreviation for the Ll.B. I started a B.Phil. article recently, and added a brief mention of undergraduate degrees by that name. If there's anything that you think deserves to be added (or changed), please do so. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 15:26, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

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Page Tags

The list of degrees are not EXAMPLES, it is a comprehensive list of the types of B.A.'s. Perhaps they should be on a separate page list or have their own pages. However, getting rid of this list would be akin to getting rid of all of the species in each family of animals because they are 'examples' - clearly they are not examples, but an enumeration of various types!!

♠ I missed the above comment. I agree with its logic. You should make your comments more visible and sign them, so we can see what you're trying to do.--THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^TALK 18:14, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

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(presumably, no one wants a B.L.A.)

Why not? Because "liberal arts" is not a valid, scholarly discipline? Or is this sort of a joke, that BLA would be pronounced "blah?" People want "B.S.," I don't see how that's any worse than "B.L.A."

In any case, because the degree title is in Latin, the adjective should (not must, but should) come after the noun it modifies. It's an artis liberalis baccalaureate, or a baccalaureate artis liberalis, not a baccalaureate liberalis artis. (Apologies for the inevitable Latin errors; it's been years since I've touched my copy of Wheelock's.)

I'm going to be bold and edit the B.L.A. remark out, as I can't really see any reason for it to be there.

--68.41.122.213 07:46, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

why is it called a bachelor's degree

Might be worth a mention?

I'd like to see this too (indeed, the disambiguation page for baccalaureate suggests that's what this page will do) Natebailey 13:02, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Please add "Bachelor of Liberal Studies" to the list of B.A. degrees. Thank you.

• Done, I previously added the Bachelor of Liberal Studies degree to the list but it has since been edited. I know it is a real degree as I have a Bachelor of Liberal Studies myself from the College of Mount Saint Joseph in Ohio, U.S.A.. --Paulsprecker (talk) 03:08, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

The Category itself is broken

This is a mess. It is impossible for these pages to be structured like this. As an example, Computer Science can be given a Bachelor of Computer Science or a Bachelor of Science, Bachelor of Arts, Bachelor of Computing, or even Bachelor of Technology through a specialty. This whole page and section needs a total restructure.--AlphaTwo 04:27, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I've begun to change the structure to a format similar to Master's degree. The information I wrote was basically reworded from the main articles on the degrees, so I'm not sure if something should be done about that. Foxjwill 20:48, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Is it worth mentioning that in practice, these distinctions are largely irrelevant? If you have, say, a bachelor's in computer science, it makes absolutely no difference whether it's a BA, BS, or something else: employers don't care, your peers don't care, and many people might not even know which one it is unless they actually check their diploma. Which people earn is determined almost exclusively by which university they attended; at some, CS is a BA; at others, it's a BS. Which it is has very little correlation to curriculum or anything else besides tradition. --Delirium 08:53, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

The answer is "yes and no". And to complicate matters further it varies heavily between countries. Some Bachelor's degrees have specific titles because in addition to being academic degrees they are (or historically have been) also recognised as a valid qualification in external fields - e.g. a Bachelor of Laws is the standard basic entry requirement to legal training and will have the various legal training bodies verifying the content, ditto the Bachelor of Medicine & Bachelor of Surgery double-degree and possibly also the Bachelor of Music. The Bachelor of Divinity does to an extent but not completely as a lot of universities use the BA title for their degree in Theology instead (and I'm not sure how essential a BD or BA is for ministry anyway). And so forth. Unfortunately recent years have seen a ridiculous proliferation of different names for degrees in other subjects (and it's much worse at Master's level) where in the past the title of BA or BSc would have sufficed.

Even the difference between a Bachelor of Arts and Bachelor of Science can vary considerably. In countries where subject specialisation takes effect at the start there's virtually no distinction between the two degrees other than a historic determination of which subjects are "arts" and which are "sciences", hence a lot of social science subjects have BA or BSc depending purely on the university in question. (I've even heard of one university where final year Maths students were allowed to pick whether they were awarded a BSc or a BA and there was no difference whatsoever until the actual graduation service.) In countries where subject specialisation doesn't come until some way into the course there may be separate pathways for BA and BSc students. Timrollpickering (talk) 17:02, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Bachelor of Applied Arts and Sciences

I added the BAAS to the list, like at the University of North Texas.--152.163.101.9 04:08, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Why are the Bachelor degrees in certain countries(The USA, Certain Canadian universities,etc)very broad and contain stuff like general education requirements ? IMHO these are utterly lacking in specialisation, general education should be done with prior to entering an institution of higher learning Kristian Joensen 23:03, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I think i's good that in the US (e.g. Princeton) and the UK they have a more liberal approach to education. Even in Scandinavia, the system is modular (even if in a different way). This gives students flexibility. In the EU there are concerns that, with the modular system, students will choose the easy modules, but it is actually harder, you end up having a more difficult degree. In some countries education is too specialised, and you get a degree that is very narrowly focussed - is that the virtue of specialisation? I also think that you only specialise at the Masters level (not to be cynical and say, only at the PhD). The first degree is for trying things out. Interdisciplinarity is as much important as specialisation and, upon entering University education, you face this dilemma, but I am not sure what is the answer.Also, the Humanities and the Social Sciences are different than the natural sciences, and disagreements usually come from the latter category. It is up to the universities to establish strict rules for interdisciplinary degrees, and this is where there is a difference from one uni to another and from one country to another. Besides, taking a few modules instead of many does not mean you do not specialise: the courses that you take are the same (applies only to Full Time degrees). Ultimately, there are always those people whi like specialising and the more liberal ones, it is all a matter of inclinations. Thanks.

I don't understand the relevence of North America in the title of the main peice of text relating to the majority of degrees in the English Speaking world. Most of these degrees (and at least the naming system) originate from England. This would be irrelevant to the article, so perhaps Western Degrees, European Style Degrees, International Standard Degrees, take your pick. North American is incredibly not just incredibly introspective, but it's incorrect.

Bachelor of Philosophy

Why relegate the B.Phil. degree to the bottom of the page? It is renowned and highly respected degree throughout the world, both as an undergraduate degree and a graduate degree. Scholars throughout the world hold it in extraordinarily high regard.

Wikipedians, shall we place it with the more recognisable Bachelor's degrees, rather than let it languish next to highly specialized, relatively obscure degrees (although legitimate degrees, obviously), at the bottom of the page? Certainly the B.Phil's renown surpasses that of Bachelor of Information Technology, etc. By far. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.156.186.85 (talk • contribs) 21:39, 21 April 2006.

As the holder of a B.Phil. myself, I agree broadly with the claim (though it has to be said that most B.Phil. degrees, especially the newer undergraduate ones, are no more world-renowned than any other degree). Still, the article is primarily about undergraduate degrees; moreover, it's not clear to me that they're ordered by value or prestige. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 08:59, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Question regarding degrees

I have a quick question about degrees. When honours is after the degree, does that mean the person graduated with a higher than 80% average in the course?? Like "English Degree, Honours?" If not this, what???-Dylan Bradbury 21:10, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

It's somewhat specific to the university and the degree. Sometimes honours is an extra year and extra coursework in the first three years, sometimes honours is a one-year standalone program post-Bachelor, and sometimes it reflects the grade. This would be a worthwile addition and clarification to the article.--Limegreen 22:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Some schools prefer not to use Latin. Honors mean Cum Laude, Highest Honors means Summa Cum Laude. One example is my alma mater Georgia Institute of Technology, which also says "Cooperative"on some degrees. That gets a chuckle out of some who don't know what it means. 184.36.114.200 (talk) 21:11, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

There is also High Honors which means Magna Cum Laude. Siriuskase (talk) 21:16, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Honors Discussion

Added a counter-example to the claim that almost all US universities offer 'cum laude' recognition.

I hardly agree with that statement. At most US universities, one must obtain a 3.5 GPA (out of 4.0) to gain 'cum laude'. Out of nearly 1,000 graduating seniors, I was one of only 150 to obtain any honors of 'cum laude,' 'magna cum laude,' or 'summa cum laude' at my undergraduate institution. Only if there is grade inflation or a superior admissions program with normally weighted grades (no bell curve like at MIT) is there likely to be a majority of honors recipients.

Elwood64151 20:48, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

The statement means almost all US universities offer Latin honors. Not that almost all US university graduates receive a Latin honor.Angry bee (talk) 05:45, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

5 years for a bachelors degree in england?

source please, the most i've seen is four years one of which is an industrial year. I guess the 5 could be counting repeated years but if so that should be made explicit. Plugwash 21:37, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Classics and Modern Languages at Oxford is five years: the standard Literae Humaniores course is four, then there is a year in a country where the language is spoken.--Oxonian2006 (talk) 11:25, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery (MB BS, MB ChB, and several variants) degrees normally take five years in Great Britain and Ireland, except for the new four year courses for graduates. When a premedical year (physics, chemistry and biology) was the norm they took six years. The Bachelor of Dental Surgery degree (BDS, BChD, etc), which involved the same premedical year, took one year less: formerly five years. The same was true of the degree in veterinary medicine and surgery (BVM&S). The main page mentions degrees in Architecture (BArch), which take five years in all, though they may be broken up by practical experience and might be turning into MArch. Fine Art courses also take longer, especially if they are in Sculpture. NRPanikker (talk) 14:45, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

times article

at the end of the first paragraph of "england wales and northern ireland" http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8403-1795732,00.html is cited. This article seems to be from the republic of ireland. In particular the third paragraph mentions an irish site first and then goes on to say "for those thinking of applying in great britian and northern ireland" and gives the uk site. Plugwash 21:46, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

BBusSci

Some institutions also offer a Bachelor of Business Science course. An example: http://www.commerce.uct.ac.za/managementstudies/bbussci/

BSIT

Many institutions offer a Bachelor of Science in Information Technology Examples: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=bsit+site%3A.edu

Bachelor of Dental Surgery

I'm wondering if we could add a link for the Bachelor of Dental Surgery to this list. I found this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dentistry#Dentistry_in_India

The B.D.S. is also conferred in China. I know this because i work with faculty members who were educated there and have this as one of their degrees. Earodrig 20:03, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

A quick google shows that we in AU/NZ also confer a B.D.S. Natebailey 13:04, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

rite

This addition to a degree title (recorded under US usage, among "cum laude" etc) is unknown to me, a UK citizen, graduate, and adviser in a University. Further, OED does not explain it AT ALL, either with or without fullstops. Could someone explain, please - at least to me, and best, in the article. MacAuslan 14:21, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Malaysia

The blatant advertisement for UCTI in the Malaysia section has been removed. Wikipedia is not your college brochure.

Wording of England, Wales and Northern Ireland category

The wording in this section, specifically: "Most degrees are now honours degrees, with an option not to take honours, and the standard length of a Honours bachelor's degree is 3 years." is a bit ambiguous in my opinion. The standard length of an honours degree in England, Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland is four years, while an Associates Degree (formerly called the Diploma) is three years, AFAIK. Ma11achy 14:15, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know about Ireland, but in my experience practically all Bachelors degrees in England & Wales are three years in length, except for those with placements and years abroad (usually an additional year between the second & final years) and foundation years (an additional year at the start to bring the candidate up to the degree starting level for whatever reason).

In most universities in England and Wales the de facto distinction between a Bachelor's degree "with honours" and one without is that the latter is a Bachelor's degree denied "honours" for one reason or another - either those that pass but don't get a third, or if the student has had to repeat a year or some other reason. (This can cause confusion as Master's degrees are not awarded with or without honours. But then adding "(Hons)" after the name is an unofficial practice.) Open is the only university I can think of which offers an "Honours degrees" and a degree without honours that have different requirements in terms of study - the ordinary degree is 300 CATS points, the Honours 360.

Degree and non-degree award terminology in the UK is historically rather inconsistent and downright confusing, but there are now moves towards standardisation. "Associates Degree" isn't a term I've heard in the UK sector, but Foundation degrees, Diplomas of Higher Education and Higher National Diplomas are all qualifications awarded for two year's undergraduate level study and would be the equivalent IMHO. Timrollpickering 20:08, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Use of the term "Four year degree"

I'm curious about the American use of the term "four year degree". Certain US employers list having a "four year college degree", or a "four year BS or BA degree from an accredited university" as a requirement. Does the use of the phrase "four year" literally mean the course must have lasted four years, or is this due to some feature of the US education system? (E.g. all Bachelor's degrees in the US last four years, and anything less than that is some lesser degree?)

So, for example, would a three-year BSc Hons. degree from a UK university be equivalent to what these employers are asking for? Is this something which should be explained in the article? Adam McMaster 21:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

"Four year college" or "four year school" or "four year degree" is used to distinguish regular universities, and the degrees they confer (e.g. the BA, BFA, BSc) from junior colleges. I would imagine that a Bachelor's from any UK, Commonwealth, or European university, regardless of how long it took to earn, would be considered a valid equivalent and would be accepted. 66.43.86.226 (talk) 20:02, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Ummm, well, maybe. You can get a 3 year or 4 year bachelor degree in Canada (depending on geography, school, and discipline), and employers there definitely make a distinction between the two. Furthermore, as someone with a Canadian undergrad (4yr) and US graduate degree (JD) who lives in the US, I can say with some certainty that US employers scrutinize foreign degrees. While I don't doubt that a 3 year honours degree from Oxford is impressive, I would not assume that it is equivalent to a 4 year degree from Harvard (just as an example - note that I am not saying they are not equivalent, I am simply saying that one cannot assume). Most large US employers are informed enough to know that there are 3 year bachelor degrees in much of the english speaking world; asking for a 4 year degree specifically addresses this issue. Otherwise, they would simply specify a bachelor degree, as the lesser degree in the US is called an associate degree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.14.67.251 (talk) 06:45, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I have regularly come across the requirement for four years of higher education as a "hard" requirement from the Americans. I believe this is probably justified because frankly there's no compelling reason to accept that three years of UK education for example is equivalent, when especially given the requirement for some kind of dissertation in American B.S. degrees etc, the four year so-called Masters in the UK would be more equivalent. Obviously one can't generalise, obviously quality and quantity cannot directly replace each other, and obviously focus and generality have their own pros and cons. Having studied in Delft in The Netherlands, I often feel short-changed because while the B.Sc there is three years on paper, it is rarely completed in much less than four, and in any case comprises longer academic years than in either the UK or US.

Anyway, the Americans often consciously specify four years to exclude foreigners who at least in their view haven't got equivalent qualifications. I agree with the above analysis that they would say "bachelors" if it was the title they wanted and not the content. They say four years because that is what they want. Princeofdelft (talk) 09:41, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

The term "four year degree" distinguishes the bachelor-level degrees from the associate-level degrees. In the US, one can obtain an associates degree (AB) in two years. Associates degrees are granted by separate institutions (typically community colleges). Whereas a single institution might grant bachelors, masters, and doctoral degrees, associate degrees (also called "two-year degrees") come from these separate institutions. Wikiant (talk) 14:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the term "four year degree" is, for the most part, is inaccurate and an anachronism. The point is, really, that the amount of time it takes an individual to complete the requirements of a degree is irrelevant in the current day - and has been for some time. While "four year degree" may have had some currency at one time, the reality is that the number of credits one has to complete determines whether or not an individual earns a degree and not the amount of time they spend in an institution. Indeed, in the US at least, the majority of students are considered "non-traditional students", and many of them attend part-time, which necessarily means in most cases that they will not fulfill the requirements for a degree in four years. Without question the use of the term "four year degree" is still in popular usage both inside and outside of academic circles, but the reality is that it does not accurately describe anything and is really an antiquated reference. Shoreranger (talk) 16:48, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't go so far as to say that "the reality is that it does not accurately describe anything and is really an antiquated reference," particularly if one is working with full-time, traditional undergraduates. But it's certainly very limited outside of that population. Incidentally, I think that this is why some of us prefer the-more-cumbersome-but-more-accurate term "baccalaureate degree."

This is truly a bizarre conversation being held over a three-year timespan. ElKevbo (talk) 17:16, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

France

I think the section on France needs to be revisited. The premise that US Bachelor degrees are equal to French Master degrees doesn't seem right. Reading other Wiki articles on this subject makes me think it's a bit more complex than this.--THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^TALK 19:01, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Spelling?

So is it supposed to be Bachelors degree now? I thought the possessive apostrophe was still mandatory here. The same question could be asked for the Master[']s degree, I guess.

An entire article that doesn't even answer the question

Why is this happening? The entire article doesn't even answer the question of why and how it came to be known as "Bachelors Degree". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 35.11.38.122 (talk) 13:11, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

There is an entire article on "Bachelor" that explains this. Briefly, a "bachelor" was a beginner, unlike a "master" or "doctor," who wasn't. NRPanikker (talk) 06:01, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

• True, however, I came to this article to find out specifically why the term is applied to a kind of academic degree, as I'm sure many people do, as it is not very common knowledge. In current parlance, "bachelor" almost always refers to an unmarried man, and while it's true that most people who attend college (especially right after high school) aren't married, I'm fairly certain there are a considerable number of married undergraduate students, particularly non-traditional students. At the very least, the article on Bachelor ought to be linked to describe the origin of the term. More preferably, this etymology should be described somewhere in the article. Tckma (talk) 21:26, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Honours vs Pass

The designations of Honours and Pass degrees pertain solely to Commonwealth and former Commonwealth countries, not the United States and it should be corrected. In the US there are single bachelor's degree programs such as a BA in Business and a graduate might be awarded the degree with honors depending on their grade point average at graduation/commencement. There are no separate Honors BA/Pass BA programs. The US doesn't use the UK terms of First, Second and Third class honors in relation to US bachelor's degrees. And the post nominal (Hons) is not used in the US even if the recipient had won the highest honors (Summa Cum Laude). In that case, it would be noted in a CV for example as "BA, Yale University (summa cum laude)". Highdesert (talk) 19:44, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Why?

Why exactly is the length something was "studied" have more value than how much knowledge the man knows? 199.117.69.8 (talk) 20:14, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Whould not the implication be that the longer one has to "study" the greater likelihood they have aquired more knowledge? That would presumably apply to a woman as well as a man, incidentally. Even talent, industry and discipline are limited by time, as well as enhanced by an increase in it. Shoreranger (talk) 14:37, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

No longer a BA/AB or BS/SB in the "Engligh speaking world"?

There currently does not seem to be either of these degrees discussed. Why were they removed? Shoreranger (talk) 15:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

A.B. and B.A.

It should be noted somewhere, that an A.B. (Artium Baccalaureatus), and B.A. are the same thing. Many longer-standing universities in the U.S. call their bachelor's degrees A.B., following latin tradition. I'd add this somewhere, but the article is so ill-structured, I'm not sure where it belongs.—DMCer™ 22:59, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Get Rid of the Abbviations.

They're annoying as hell because:

1.) Its best to give the full title

2.) Irrelevant to people who don't know them.