Talk:Spanish Inquisition

Henningsen-Contreras statistics

I've added the table with the data about the number of trials and executions according to the statistics of Gustav Henningsen and Jaime Contreras. Since the authors themeselves admit that their statistics is far from being complete, I've compared the numbers given by them with the numbers that appear from other available sorces for the respective tribunals. I've based primarily on William Monter, Frontiers of Heresy: The Spanish Inquisition from the Basque Lands to Sicily, Cambridge 2003. CarlosPn (discussion) 31 Oct 2008 22:15 CET

Underplays the pain caused to the Jews

The pain caused to the Jews was significant and as such should be mentioned in the first line of the article. Since greater than ninety percent of the victims were Jews, it was one of the most severe forms of State and Church sanctioned antisemitism. The rest of the article deals with it rather clinically. This article is not neutral until these problems are rectified. Ezra Wax (talk) 15:16, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi Ezra. Just to start the discussion, can you provide a source that backs up the claim that "greater than ninety percent of the victims were Jews..." Hobomojo (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:05, 14 December 2010 (UTC).

In Spain, James I the Conqueror established the Inquisition in Aragon in 1238. Isabel the Catholic petitioned Pope Sixtus IV for the Inquisition in 1477 and receives permission in 1478. The reasons provided by Isabel states that many people “without reward or force” maintained their own observances and Jewish ceremonies, exercising a strong proselytism. During this period in Spain proselytism meant not baptizing oneself, or praying in front of an image of a Saint. Non-idolatrous Christians were classified as Jews. Spain does not conquer all of the Moors lands until 1498. (Source: Educated in Aragon, Spain, but I no longer have my high school history book. I am providing a link in Spanish that concord with what I learned in high school.) http://serjudio.com/dnoam/inquisicion.htm

The link provided below shows maps depicting the Christian Kings conquering the Iberian Peninsula (the peninsula that contains Spain and Portugal). http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd_1911/shepherd-c-082-083.jpg

This article states, “Because of its objective — combating heresy — the Inquisition had jurisdiction only over baptized members of the Church (which, however, encompassed the vast majority of the population in Catholic countries). Secular courts could still try non-Christians for blasphemy.” This statement contradicts the Spanish Inquisition information found in the source below, where Jews and Muslims were submitted to the inquisition in Aragon and later in Cadiz (Jews are not baptized, non-idolatry Christians for not praying when passing in front of images of Saints).

The article does not mention the great transfer of land and 31,312,768 maravedis (gold coins) were calculated to have been confiscated by the Inquisition from accused in Andalusia between 1488 and 1497, one might well conclude that the severity of the persecution was due more to financial concerns than to the desire to suppress the Judaizing heresy. In the first part of the sixteenth century the Inquisition took enormous sums from its victims. Almost 87 million maravedis were confiscated by eight courts between 1536 and 1543 alone. The wealth and land was divided in between the royal treasure and the Holy Office of the Church. Source: A. Domínguez Ortiz, Los Judeoconversos en España y América (Madrid: Istmo, 1988) Oneofshibumi (talk) 04:42, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Some of what you have pointed out, Oneofshibumi, is correct, but still, entirely beside the point. The claim Ezra Wax makes is that "ninety percent of the victims were Jews," which is the basis for his tagging the article as biased, and it is factually incorrect. Please produce a source supporting the claim that 90% or the victims of the Inquisition were Jews.Hobomojo (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:57, 9 March 2011 (UTC).

Oneofshibumi. Let's start with some nitpicking ;-) it was 1492 not 98 when the last moorish kingdom (Granada) dissapeared from the Iberian Peninsula. Could you pls. elaborate on the concept of "non-idolatrous Christian"? I know it's hard when not being a native english speaker, but without defining the concept is hard to follow your argument.

Kamen book has a most interesting section dealing with the converso problem before the stablishment of the Inquisition (and it is translated in Spanish). And noone can deny that the main (perhaps sole) reason why the Spanish Inquisition was brought up, was to deal with false converts from Judaism and the social risk it -was perceived- provoked.

The finantial side of the Inquisition was a troublesome matter since the first days, but modern scholars tend to think that is was -in general- not a main cause, but rather a windfall, and was basically used up in self-maintenace of the institution (pace Rawlings, p.151)

Can you expand on the cases where Inquisition dealt with NON-baptized jews and moslems? (which after 1493/1530 it must mean foreing born). Can get no references. It's worth to note that the behaviour regarding moriscos was absolutely at variance to that of judaizers ...--Wllacer (talk) 11:13, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Black african slavery as the reason for the inquisition

Was the spanish inquisition initiated because of the victims of the inquisition were involved in black african slavery? Alot of jewish people and muslim people in spain were involved in the enslavement of black africans and the catholic church seems to have been opposed to black africans being enslaved. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.105.90.104 (talk) 13:36, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

The short answer is "No". The long answer is it's complicated. Dominican friar Las Casas, the defender of the Indians, is seen by some as the father of Black slavery. See Hanke's "The Spanish Struggle for Justice." In the 1630s-1640s there was a Inquisition purge of the crypto-Jewish communities in Cartagena, Lima and Mexico, many of whom were involved in the slave trade, and some historians argue that that disastrously affected Spain resulting in the ultimate loss of Portugal following the revolt of 1640.Hobomojo (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:12, 10 March 2011 (UTC).

Torquemada?

There is no mention of Torquemada on this page (You know...the first Inquisitor General to Spain?!?), and the statistics on his page regarding the inquisition do not correlate with the statistics given here. 70.179.23.9 (talk) 22:26, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Torquemada is mentioned in the sub-section "The start of the Inquisition." The problem with the statistics is due to problems with the documentation, but the 2,000 figure in the article dedicated to him is most likely over-inflated. As far as I can tell, it comes from the Rawlings work cited in the Torquemada article, unfortunately, Rawlings herself offers no citation for where she got her figure. Hobomojo (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:44, 10 March 2011 (UTC).

RE: Moore

The following sentence appears at the end of the 2nd paragraph of the section entitled: "Previous Inquisitions"

But in the coming years the Muslims were increasingly subjugated by alienation and torture. This is displayed by the fact that "Moore" the name of the Muslim dynasty in Spain is still the 9th most common English surname "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore_(surname)". The Jews on the other had who thrived under Muslim rule now suffered similar maltreatment. The discrimination was understandably more against Muslims, naturally since they were the ones defeated by the new rulers of Spain.

As you can see there is a link there to the article for the English surname "Moore". However the (interesting) bit of trivia put forth by the above quoted sentence is actually contradicted by the information in the linked article, which explains that the name is Gaelic/English in origin. Furthermore the linked article lists "Moore" not as the 9th most common surname in England, but the 31st. I am just a passerby reading this fine article and I don't know which article contains the correct information, but I thought I would point this out in case a more experienced wikipedian might make a judgement. M4gill4 (talk) 04:12, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Bibliography section

Coud anyone update the bibliography section? It seems it is still a leftover from the 1911 Britannica .... I've grouped it in three subsections (recent, seminal and old), but I don't know if all the recent are of a serious scholary level, and most of the old section ... I'll add a couple of modern books I think worth (Rawlings and Hozma), but it needs a heavy update (look f.i. at the spanish article) --Wllacer (talk) 10:01, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Torture section citing www.crisismagazine.com

The Torture section had a paragraph that minimized the use of torture by the Catholic Inquisitors during the Spanish Inquisition. The paragraph cited an evangelical Catholic webpage, www.crisismagazine.com. This can not be considered a non-biased or academic source. I have therefore, removed the section. Please cite a non-biased, academically credible source, if the section is reinstated. AJseagull1 (talk) 01:46, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

As a post script, the Evangelical Catholic site cited no source for their claims. AJseagull1 (talk) 01:48, 4 August 2011 (UTC)