Talk:Luis Suárez

Edit request

Suárez ignored Evra and continued down the line causing Evra to throw his arms up in protest and Rio Ferdinand, whose brother Anton was the victim of a separate racial abuse incident with Chelsea captain John Terry, to avoid shaking Suárez's hand.

Could the one who wrote this edit the second part of the sentence? It makes no sense. What did Rio Ferdinand do to avoid shaking hands?31.164.92.157 (talk) 18:33, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

2011 racial abuse incident Section is to long

Although this incident is what has been dominating the media the last month or so, it still does not justify almost having as much written about it here as for instance the description of his days at Ajax. The incident is certainly worth mentioning, but it needs to be at least halved in length to give a more reasonable balance with the amount that has been written of other more significant aspects of him.

If someone find it important to make such a complete story about that incident, I would suggest making a separate page for that incident with the whole story which this page can link to while keeping it much shorter on this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neberu (talk • contribs) 04:19, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

The section is certainly too long, but it's also very poor, with CPOV issues, as you'd expect of such a contentious issue relating to football (football articles can generally be quite poor). For example, saying that Alex Ferguson and black former footballers were pleased with the judgement seems to imply a bit of a conspiracy, or that the case existed due to those parties. When a decision is reached on something, it's not usual to go through everybody associated with one side and say they were pleased, and then listing the other side and saying they weren't. Any thoughts on that folks - is there consensus on removing it? Similarly, the next paragraph has several irrelevances - it's written in a way which seems to support the club's statement, rather than reporting it according to Wiki rules - for example it could say that the club supported the player, citing his charity work, his own mixed-race background, and confirming that he wasn't being accused of being racist. Currently it implies that the charge was of being racist, rather than of racist abuse. On to the sentence about John Barnes' comments - they've not hit the radar in terms of public awareness - could it say that as well as criticism, some ex-players expressed their support? The last couple of paragraphs aren't as flawed as the rest - perhaps people may want to make a couple of tweaks to phrasing to make it more neutral. Feedback and consensus will certainly be needed on this one - it's certainly contentious, so let me know any thoughts. Marty jar (talk) 23:36, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

As above, some of the changes listed have been made. This is just a first sweep - there's a great deal more to be done to improve this section, to make it more concise, neutral, and more readable. Any feedback much appreciated, and hopefully over the next couple of weeks it will reach a more focused endpoint.Marty jar (talk) 14:10, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Renowned flopper

The article needs to make mentioned of his diving. They are well referenced all over the net and its lopsided to include the Fulham chants and not include the reason for them.82.141.196.178 (talk) 14:02, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Provide some of these sources then, and not from fan forums. GedUK  15:48, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

1. Why the fans were calling him cheat at the Fulham game http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16043901 2. Suggested by Alex Ferguson http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15308775 3. Described by Phil Mc Nulty as "an expert at winning and drawing fouls". http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/2011/10/man_utd_mistakes_go_unpunished.html 4. Match report says Rodwell was sent off for a "legitimate challenge" http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15045708 5. A full report from former 'Pool player Mark Lawrenson http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/mark-lawrenson/Mark-Lawrenson -column-Luis-Suarez-s-diving-is-wrecking-his-Liverpool-reputation-article817509 .html

And these are only from two websites! I'm sure that there is plenty more out there. Nowadays everyone is diving but Suarez has been particularly bad since moving to Liverpool.82.141.196.178 (talk) 09:07, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Not a single scrape of evidence in any of them, move along now little man. You've had your fun. Hilarious to use the drunken scot's opinion to try and proof anything. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.153.4 (talk) 00:55, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

I can't remember quoting Daglish, or is it anoher drunken scot your talking about? So do you want evidence or references? You'll find the former on youtube, the latter above. 82.141.196.178 (talk) 12:33, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Handshake (edit request on 11 February 2012)

Would like to edit in, on the racial controversy section, that some video evidence has surfaced that may show Suarez attempted initially to shake Evra's hand, but appeared to be rebuffed. Sbrown5089 (talk) 23:13, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Do you have a source for this? Remember, that if it's just "I saw it, clear as day on the TV", then you're more than likely right, but it constitutes original research. Achowat (talk) 23:15, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

While a few of the pro-Liverpool and/or anti-Man Utd blogs claim to have video evidence supporting the above, every single reliable media source that I have seen supports the claim that Suarez declined Evra's offer of a handshake.Sennen Goroshi ! (talk) 06:40, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Watch the video From the video (and others), It seems that Suarez holds his hand at the same height while moving toward Evra, going for a handshake. Evra retracted his hand further after the previous handshake. His hand only came up after Suarez's hand passed his - but everyone was moving at the same speed, and Suarez's hand didn't dodge. To me, it actually looks like Evra refused to shake Suarez's hand, then after Suarez went past, he lifted his hand to make it look like it was Suarez that refused his handshake. Not to mention the whole lifting of Suarez's arm and the staring-into-the-camera as if to scream "DID YOU SEE THAT?" Gives me the impression that Evra created a previously nonexistent situation, then milked the incident for all it was worth.

Who didn't shake whose hand? It might not be such a clear-cut issue. Lkc159 (talk) 11:30, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

I've seen the video and to me it looks 100% as if Evra offered his hand and Suarez refused to shake it. However, that is not important, because that is original research. What is important are reliable unbiased sources, are there any reliable sources (ie. not LFC related blogs) that are saying that Evra refused the handshake? I could probably find at least fifty reliable media sources that all confirm it was Suarez who refused to shake Evra's hand. Unless there are reliable sources saying it was Evra who refused the handshake, I guess the article has to say it was Suarez. Sennen Goroshi ! (talk) 14:15, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

In addition to the above, Suarez has since apologised for not shaking Evra's hand: "I should have shaken Patrice Evra's hand before the game and I want to apologise for my actions."
and the managing director of Liverpool has stated: "We are extremely disappointed Luis Suarez did not shake hands with Patrice Evra before yesterday's game. The player had told us beforehand that he would, but then chose not to do so." So it seem s as if the entire planet, apart from a handful of biased Liverpool fans, thinks that it was Suarez who avoided the handshake, not Evra. Sennen Goroshi ! (talk) 15:43, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

It is evident, even to a passing insect, that Evra momentarily withdrew his hand. Still image Video Suarez took this as a visual clue to move on to the next player, thinking "f**k you then." A contrived press statement, intended to sweep the affair under the rug, does not alter reality. However, you are correct that none of this matters lacking a reliable source, which have thus far failed to appear. — ThePowerofX 15:57, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

I would imagine if there was any way for Suarez/Liverpool to defuse this situation and put the blame on Evra, they would both jump at the chance and claim that Evra withdrew his hand. The photo is convincing apart from the fact that it doesn't show the timing, the video is far less convincing. It is all rather amusing though, because all I see are three Liverpool fans claiming their player is innocent and one Man Utd fan (me) saying Suarez was to blame. Sometimes loyalty blinds us from the obvious. Sennen Goroshi ! (talk) 16:13, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

A motion-picture press briefing is not a good idea at this point. Pressure is building. The way to defuse the situation is to force an apology and move forward. Look at the video a second time. Patrice Evra keeps his hand the same height and distance until Luis Suarez approaches. Evra then pulls his hand closer to his midriff. It's possible that he simply wanted Suarez to pause or slow down, look him directly in the eye, and shake his hand with conviction. But Suarez, who is unhesitating, misreads his intention and both players get angry with each other. The sports blogs have identified this miscommunication but the press (reliable sources) have not. — ThePowerofX 17:06, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

 Not done: It sounds like this is original research. You need to find a reliable source which interprets the actions and then you can ask to have the observation included. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 17:22, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Not that it matter which blogs as far as Wikipedia is concerned, but I have only seen pro-Liverpool blogs saying that it was Evra who avoided the handshake. I'm sure the numerous anti-MUFC blogs will have similar comments, are there any generally neutral blogs saying the same? Either way, as a Utd fan the final outcome was great, Utd won, Suarez looks like an idiot and no-one really cares about Evra's over enthusiastic celebrations. Sennen Goroshi ! (talk) 17:27, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Is it important to put in the family, section that his grandfather is black? http://dkrenton.co.uk/Suarez.html, http://tomkinstimes.com/2011/12/suarez-is-not-a-racist/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.156.93 (talk) 17:56, 12 February 2012 (UTC)