Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Suicide of Amanda Todd

Suicide of Amanda Todd

Suicide of Amanda Todd (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Contested PROD, the article fails WP:NOTNEWSPAPER and WP:BIO1E there is no indication that this tragic event goes beyond a local event. The article is nothing more than a rehash of news reports without any encyclopedic analysis. Mtking ^(edits) 23:10, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Keep - Article is on the events leading up to the event as well as the event itself. Note, the article is on an event and not a biography of the person. Given it's relevance and as the story unfolds I believe the article should stay in place unless deemed not a suicide, at which point, I may revise my opinion as then it way better fall under the criteria stated. Piandcompany (talk) 23:20, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

You are missing the point, there is no indication either here or in the article as to why this event is of encyclopedic note, your comment "relevance and as the story unfolds" makes my point, this is a tragic news story and nothing more at this time. Mtking ^(edits) 01:21, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

I feel we need to look over this argument in the coming week to see how the page develops. Piandcompany (talk) 01:33, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Keep - Article should stay as above, sources increasing all the time, far far too early to PROD/AFD. ^Alex J _Fox^(Talk)_(Contribs) 23:30, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Keep - Per exactly what has been stated by Piandcompany. Lots of sources can be found on the subject (which I will be adding). -- Cheers, Riley Huntley 23:32, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of News-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:14, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Internet-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:14, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:14, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

• Keep' I started the article after inspecting the three other such articles at Wikipedia:

• Suicide of Jamey Rodemeyer
• Suicide of Ryan Halligan
• Suicide of Tyler Clementi

Such cases tend to give rise to prevention campaigns, criminal charges, and possibly changes in the law. I suggest doing what we can to expand this. Then it will Google to the top of the pile, drawing further edits. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:18, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

WP:OTHERSTUFF is not a reason to keep, WP is not a newspaper and any claim to prevention campaigns or changes in the law is pure speculation (see WP:CRYSTAL) at this time. Mtking ^(edits) 01:24, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Strong Keep - Her suicide has attracted a massive amount of coverage, literally hundreds of articles have been written about it. Instead of taking the time to start up a discussion to delete this article, perhaps being productive and improving the article would be a better use of time. Bruce Campbell (talk) 03:38, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

• KeepIn reviewing WP:PEOPLE guidelines, I found this guideline in favor of keeping a biographical sketch of a person: "For Wikipedia:Notability (people), the person who is the topic of a biographical article should be "worthy of notice" – that is, "significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded"[1] within Wikipedia as a written account of that person's life. "Notable" in the sense of being "famous" or "popular" – although not irrelevant – is secondary."

This person is 'of interest' as a case study for Wikipedia articles that are currently written about cyber-bulling, youth suicide, and cyber-stalking legislation in Canada. It deserves attention because it appears that it may lead to new or tougher legislation against cyber-bullying. As such, this is a "first draft of history."

Whether the article should be rewritten is another matter. This reads more like a first draft of a secondary-school student essay. (I apologize if the author feels this is an insult; none is intended. More editing and rewriting will improve it. It should be shortened.)

I agree that the suicide of a young person is not in itself worthy of a standalone article in an encyclopedia. However, incidents like these which involve social media can be significant, culturally as well as historically. Further, this incident apparently has been initiated as a consequence of these very same technological innovations, producing a case study that demonstrates how social media has dramatically impacted the way in which humans communicate -- and the cultural, legal, and perhaps technological reactions thereto. That in itself is a noteworthy topic.

Throughout history similar seemingly 'minor' incidents have served as important drivers of legislative and cultural change. This may be one such incident in Canada. Certainly watching the story unfold and modifying the article if or as needed will be necessary. But I think it worthy of keeping for now. Bancheromedia (talk) 06:34, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

A notable abstract: Pediatricians are in a unique position to help families understand these sites and to encourage healthy use and urge parents to monitor for potential problems with cyberbullying, “Facebook depression,” sexting, and exposure to inappropriate content. Bancheromedia (talk) 14:53, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

• Keep Since being increasingly covered in international media, this article satisfies WP:N in my opinion. The "encyclopedic analysis" can and more than likely will improve over time. DrNegative (talk) 07:26, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
• Keep -- per all the above, specifically WP:INDEPTH. _{I would write a long rambling passage, but it's already been written.} Theopolisme 13:43, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

• Delete Teenagers commit suicide every year all over the world. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia; not a place to post the list of every suicide story that has ever taken place. There is no significance whatsoever for having a Wikipedia article for the suicide of Amanda Todd; no cultural, historical, legislative, etc. impact beyond tweets and facebook groups. She is not the first teenager in Canada to commit suicide over bullying. This is a perfect example of how insignificant events should not have articles. Just because it is a trending news story does not mean that overly-emotional people can create a Wikipedia memorial. Warsilver (talk) 08:13, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

This is a high-profile case -- the highest of its kind in Canada I think. Other such cases in the US have resulted in the rise of numerous organizations like the It Gets Better Project, Anti-bullying legislation such as The Anti-Bullying Bill of Rights, the Megan Meier Cyberbullying Prevention Act, changes to numerous existing laws, United States v. Lori Drew, several major broadcasts including a PBS Frontline piece, indictments, criminal charges, convictions, fines, and prison sentences.

Also, the police are still looking for the blackmailer in this case, who is likely an adult, and if so, a pedophile.

Considering that there will likely be consequences stemming from this, it passes WP:PERSISTENCE, and as the notability of this event is likely to endure for quite some time, it easily passes WP:NOTNEWSPAPER. And because this is about the suicide and events surrounding it, and not specifically about the person, it also passes WP:BIO1E. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:51, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

• Strong Keep IMO she is notable for her strong communication skills in creating a video about an important topical issue, for a youth to create such a video is significant and extraordinary, and given the culmination in her violent death this persons life has captured the public imagination in a manner likely to trigger global law changes and awareness raising about paedophiles if the suspicions aired about her main bully are true. I think facebook will lobby strongly to have the whole incident written out of history as they are highly ineffectual at stopping abusive posters and pages and won't want the debate for commercial reasons. The girls life and death are notable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.59.228.216 (talk) 13:26, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

• Keep Amanda's suicide is getting significant media coverage in both Canada and around the world. A full police investigation is also underway now with calls for new laws, etc., so it will likely continue to be in the news for now.Michael5046 (talk) 14:44, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

• Keep Removed per No personal attacks policy -- DQ (ʞlɐʇ) 18:12, 13 October 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by BKman74 (talk • contribs) 15:16, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

• Delete I fully agree per the nomination. An article is not appropriate for a single event such as suicide due to cyber bullying. If an article was made for everyone who committed suicide or was a victim of Cyber-bullying Wikipedia would just be a Obituary. At most this would seem more appropriate to be at Wikinews. I am willing to change my opinion if people suggest arguments against my reasoning. If the article does in fact increase in appropriation for Wikipedia I will change. John F. Lewis (talk) 15:40, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

• Keep Her suicide is gaining media attention, it is also the basis of an anti-bullying campaign. Whilst lots of people do commit suicide, lots of young children also go missing and Miss McCann has her own page too.

adamlonsdale (talk) 16:41, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

• Delete Per WP:ONEEVENT. Nothing separates her suicide from that of any other depressed teenager and while it's gaining speed, it's only because of the fact she killed herself. She's not notable and does not warrant an article in the least.Giants27(T|C) 17:50, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

• Keep: Clearly notable as indicated by the plethora of sources reporting about it. This is not run of the mill news. Coverage is indeed worldwide: here is an Italian newspaper report on the story, for example. The "encyclopedic analysis" bit is nonsense: the article is a "rehash" of news sources? Well, it's exactly what it should be then, for WP:ORIG and WP:SYN. We are not supposed to make stuff up. In any case, if an article is not perfect, it means it has to be edited, not deleted. --Cyclopia^talk 19:36, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

• Keep: The case surrounding this girl is similar to the Phoebe Prince and Megan Meier cases. Let`s keep it here, because these teens are a warning for the others of what bullying can do to us. They are all messengers in their own way. Of course, lots of other teens commit suicide every year in the whole wide world and they do not get coverage in media, but despite this we need to admit that there are certain cases, which emerge from the other cases and this is one of them. So keep it where it is. Lassoboy (talk) 19:46, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

• Keep: While Amanda Todd may not have been notable in life, her suicide is, and as such, she is now (sadly) notable in death. As teens and young adults lives have become tightly entangled with social media technology such that privacy is becoming antiquated, it has become critically important to raise awareness and information in this area. --Thoric (talk) 20:52, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

• Keep it .... as this is an invaluable education for parents and teens alike. 03:50, 14 October 2012 User:Tom2day

• STRONG KEEP as we all learn more about what has happened, we should all be willing to learn from this experience, there may be 1 simple clue that helps another parent, or Teen from going down the same road.Livewyer (talk) 20:08, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
• Keep - You have kept these articles- Suicide of Jamey Rodemeyer, Suicide of Ryan Halligan, Suicide of Tyler Clementi. It seems that Amanda Todd is disqualified because she was Canadian "nothing interesting ever happens up there" - I say keep

24.108.61.172 (talk) 20:27, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

• Keep - The importance of this article is not necessarily in recording the event itself, but the affect is it is having broadly on discussions surrounding the growing issue of teenage suicide and bullying via social networks. Whilst it is certainly not the first time such events have taken place, it is resulting in an unprecedented, and very much global debate - I'm writing this from Melbourne, Australia, where at least a dozen people I know are also involved in similar discussions. This case is quickly becoming a household discussion (between users of social networking, at least), and I would not be surprised if Ms Todd became something of a Kitty Genovese in the context of cyber-bullying.

• Keep. WP:BIO1E states that a separate article is appropriate "if the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one". The event is significant; whether or not it deserves to be, given the fact that teenagers commit suicide every day all over the world and this is no different, is irrelevant - the fact is that the event has been covered by many major news organisations worldwide (see the references in the article). Seeing as the event is her suicide, she obviously plays a large role within it. Thus BIO1E does not apply. Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 23:37, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
• Keep, while the individual is not notable the event is clearly notable. It has been covered by numerous sources and many of these are in the article. meshach (talk) 23:42, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
• Keep. - The fact is many people suicide each year. Wikipidia shouldnt delete this page because this is something people should be able to learn. People need this kind of information to be INFORMED to them. This is something hundreds of thousands people care about and Wikipiedia should keep it for the sake of a better world. People will be able to learn from this. There is a high percentage of chance that a bully will become a friend by reading this article. 1 bully can make a huge change. The question is not should we delete this article. The question is should we save many lives and unwanted situations from children and teens lives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.254.56.123 (talk) 23:51, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
• Strong keep - for reasons above, plus this article is properly referenced and the media coverage on this topic is extensive. There are similar articles on suicides, this is a notable one. --Jethro B 00:49, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
• Strong keep while I think it's obvious at this point why the article should be kept, I'm adding my vote. Her suicide is now prompting governments in Canada to reassess or initiate anti-bullying laws. This is a significant event. BashBrannigan (talk) 01:57, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
• Keep - An event that has caught coverage all around the world, and if the event is promting governments to make change, there's your "significance". I'll also note, that people shouldn't argue that suicide isn't notable... "happens all the time" etc. because obviously the media has picked up on it, we are in no position to just disregard material. The article can and most likely will be reworked over a few weeks. -- MST☆R ^{(Chat Me!)} 02:23, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
• Delete Delete this page, this girl has had no significant impact on the world and therefore doesn't deserve her on wikipedia page. I mean, everyone dies every day, so why is she so special? 75.90.125.189 (talk) 02:39, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
• Keep - Articles may start out as a stub or need improvement, but this can be done for the Amanda Todd suicide article. Hopefully this information will help prevent sexting, and especially suicide. --LABcrabs (talk) 02:55, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
• KEEP - This is a significant event that I'm sure will be remembered for a long time to come. Kids today do Terry Fox runs, and one day they will be doing Amanda Todd runs no doubt because her Mom has already started a fund for anti-bullying. ~ CarrieLeeKlein — Preceding unsigned comment added by CarrieLeeKlein (talk • contribs) 03:24, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
• Delete per nom.   — Jeff G. ツ (talk) 03:30, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:ONEEVENT. Many kids commit suicide and nothing separates her suicide from that of any other depressed teenager. She is not notable and does meet Wikipedia standards for an article 204.101.190.178 (talk) 05:04, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
• Keep per WP:INDEPTH. Of obvious national importance and interest, and "encyclopedic analysis" can be developed. Bretonbanquet (talk) 07:52, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

• Strong keep I can see nothing in the 'Reasons for deletion' section of the Wikipedia Deletion policy that mitigates removing this article. I strongly disagree that "there is no indication that this tragic event goes beyond a local event". Given the enormous reaction and trending on social media sites - particularly Facebook and Twitter - it is obvious that this story is being followed globally. It is not fair to assume that an encyclopedic value be attached right now since the story is still unfolding. More details are emerging by the day and this article should be given time to develop naturally and accurately. In addition, some further analysis of the overbearing issues would be appropriate. Finally, there is considerable mis-information in posts and web sites which have given rise to a great deal of polarised viewpoints. I feel it is important to capture as many facts as possible in order to accurately explain these events and the fate of this young girl. Paulid 11:04, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Delete Remove the article. It's creating drama on the internet and many people commit suicide each year whilst making a drama on youtube first. This just encourages others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.216.254.69 (talk) 11:32, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

• Keep This incident is one of its kind, and people should know about it. It might be better to make it an article about Amanda Todd herself, rather than about her

suicide — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.110.243.23 (talk) 11:49, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

• STRONG KEEP The article gives facts only. Relevant topic.MiMo-2012 (talk) 13:47, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

• Strong delete - This is using Wikipedia as a memorial website. Her death is tragic, but so are so many others. It is way too early to say this is a significant event. At this point the media is using this for pageviews and individuals as a bandwagon to jump on. When actual province-wide legislation gets passed, then this event can be redirected to that article. Also, missing white woman syndrome. --mboverload@ 14:45, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

• Strong delete - This is a non issue. Just because an event was a tragedy, doesn't mean that it warrants a wikipedia page. The child made a horrible decision.

• STRONG KEEP - Article information is factual and any tragedy in which a young person takes their own life should be notable, especially when they post videos on Youtube before they commit suicide. 23 editor (talk) 15:43, 14 October 2012 (UTC)