Talk:Xbox 360

For old discussions, see Archive1, Archive 2, Archive 3.

65nm shrink

Microsoft is shrinking the CPU die size to 65nm from 90. i figure i should add this. Vulcanstar6 03:39, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

When will this happen? MarioV 22:17, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

They are planning to do this in Q1 2007.Delta Spartan 03:58, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

"Energy hog"

Allegations and claims regarding the 360's use of electricity are worthy of mention. For example, there are reports that it may use more energy than a standard PC with the same game title in use. Comparisons to future Next Gen material may also be included or verified. --AWF

Not really. Perhaps if the system were proven to really suck an incredible amount of power, it might be worth noting. But the 360 uses a liquid-cooled triple-core processor that requires (if I'm not mistaken) two high-speed case fans. Using more power than some other devices seems obvious (like the computer in question, which was probably a single-fan-cooled single core). Even then, this would go in with the technical errata, as it doesn't seem to cause much of an issue at all for the vast majority of consumers. Gspawn 14:24, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

The D/C output is listed as 203W in the hardware spec section. Lets say the power supply has ~66% efficiency (about the average minimum for a cheap pc power supply), that gets you up to ~300 watts, which is close to the power consumption of an average new pc and pretty modest when compared to a high-powered gaming rig. ˉˉ^anetode╞┬╡ 14:37, 3 April 2006 (UTC) (Heh, according to [1], the X360 draws only 160 watts, very low by desktop standards ˉˉ^anetode╞┬╡ 15:05, 3 April 2006 (UTC))

Comparing The two different versions

On the check list, it says that the core version does not ship with an ethenet cord, while in the picture it shows this?

        Well it really dosen't, that photo must have been taken before all the launch specs
(like how much it is) were out.

Touch-sensitive buttons

"The controllers have two digital touch-sensitive trigger buttons."

Is this true? I can't find any mention of it anywhere else, and my controller only seems to have normal buttons. Perhaps they meant to say that it has analogue triggers?

Sounds like the triggers are pressure sensitive, but no others. Unusual, as I seem to recall that all the buttons on Sony's Dual Shock 2 controllers are analog. Two analog pressure-point triggers, two vibration feedback motors, and one eight-way directional pad are included. - [2] --OscarTheCat^talk 18:46, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

The original Xbox controllers (Duke and Controller S) had fully analog face buttons (A,B,X,Y,Wh,Bl) and fully analog triggers, as well as analog joysticks and d-pad. However, with the Xbox 360, only the triggers, joysticks, and d-pad are analog, the face buttons are digital. --CanesOL79 16:48, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Backwards Compatibility Requirements

What do you need for backwards compatibility?

You need a hard drive. You don't need Xbox Live, since you can download the emulation profiles from Xbox.com and burn them to CD. Defkkon 21:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Can I simply use my old Xbox discs on the Xbox 360?

Some of them. Take a look at List of Xbox games compatible with Xbox 360 --OscarTheCat^talk 16:10, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

So, do I have to download the emulation first, or can I just pop in the old game?

If you could just pop all the games on the list in from the get-go, why would there be a download service? gspawn 04:58, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

NHL 2K6

I've created a new article NHL_2K as it was one of the few red links on the Xbox 360. It's barely a stub at the moment, appreciate any content you can add. --OscarTheCat^talk 16:10, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

External links

They need reviewing. For example, do we need another 360 review [3] (added today) --OscarTheCat^talk 10:19, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Have left a msg with contributor, asking that reviews only be added to articles where there isn't already a review, in order to keep external links to a minimum. Otherwise we'll have pages and pages of reviews, all saying pretty much the same thing. (WP:EL). --OscarTheCat^talk 10:29, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Retail configurations and pricing

 Both of these were very similar to "off the shelf" PC hardware and were therefore sold to Microsoft at inflated market prices.

This seems counter intuitive - I'm not saying it's wrong, but to the lay reader it might need explaining. WhiteCat 06:55, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

cooling

"The heatsinks are actively cooled by a pair of 60mm exhaust fans that push the air out of the case (negative case pressure)."
Could someone clarify this (in the text or on the talk page) - This means the fans blow out of the case then - is this right?HappyVR 19:02, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Also I made edits to the cooling section in an attempt to emphasise that the boiling temperature of the heatpipe liquid should be less than the max operating temperature. Clearly the boiling temp can increase due to increased pressure in the heatpipe - but at constant energy output (of processsor) and constant cooling (requires constant room temp, air flow..) then the system should stabilise/equilibriate. I hope I haven't made this worse. Thank you.HappyVR 19:13, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

• The two fans blow air out of the case. Exhausting the heat. Like the exhaust of your car engine sorta. Negative pressure means that there is more air flow going out than in. So, the air pressure inside the 360 is lower than outside. Negative pressure is used by most PC builders too. I don't know if I've ever seen an intake fan on a PC built by an OEM.
• The heatpipe is designed for a lower internal pressure to keep whatever liquid inside turning into a vapor and back to a liquid optimally for whatever temperature range it is dealing with. The liquid boils when it's heated by the CPU, the gas travels to the top of the pipe where it cools and reliquifies and flows back down. That's the cycle. --Swaaye 19:50, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Hello again - PleaseIGNORE my previous comment - I've just realised it's wrong - I think the article will need changing as well - What is mean is - is that a liquid such as water is probably not suitable for use for cooling a PC/XBox/etc since the boiling point is too high - I'm assuming that the temp of the cpu will be 40-70 degrees C. In this case the rate of boiling will be far too low for water to give sufficient heat transfer (I think). A more volatile liquid should be used - something like hexane/DCM/methanol/a freon. Also in a heat pipe which is sealed the pressure cannot be kept low since there will be absorbtion of heat (when the pressure is low) causing some evaporation - and causing the pressure to rise inside the pipe. Say in the case of water (initailly at low pressure) - the pressure will rise to match the vapour pressure of water at ambient temperature.
Clearly the pipe should be evacuated (to near vacuum) and then have the liquid admitted - there should be no other gases other than the vapour of the liquid in the pipe.

Also - the fans - surely there is circulation of air - In fact I've seen pictures of the ducting used inside the 360 to 'duct' the air over the heatsinks - this should be mentioned I think - whether the fans 'suck' or 'blow' is fairly insignificant - sorry for my stupid previous questions about fans.HappyVR 20:14, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about this the cooling section may now need redoing because I was editing without thinking straight - hopefully it's okHappyVR 20:21, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Water's boiling point is too high at normal atmospheric pressure. The heatpipe is a partial vacuum so the pressure is a lot lower and the water boils at a lower temp. Same as when cooking on a mountain. The water boils at a lot lower temp up there. Heatpipes very often do use water because it is so cheap and it's trivial to get the internal pressure down when they make them. I don't own a 360 so I can't comment on whether the fans blow in or out, but I've NEVER seen a fan on a console blow in. I would introduce too much dust to the system. What is a Heat Pipe?--Swaaye 23:03, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I agree about the fan - but not about the water - it's not the same as on a mountain because water boiling on a mountain does not cause the air pressure to rise (the amount of water vapour produced is sure to be negligble) - however in a sealed system like the heat pipe the pressure will rise considerably and the water will not boil at a lower temperature.HappyVR 18:23, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Me again, I found a pic of the air ducts in the 360 - there are other similar "xbox dissasembled" pages out there but this one was easy to find for me, please take a look[4]. Still don't know which way the fans work but if it was up to me I'd make them suck air in and blow air across the heat sinks - even though this would cause dust problems.HappyVR 18:40, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Headset included, or not

Just got my XBOX 360 Premium pack today (Australia), it had no headset in it. The box doesn't indicate that it contains a headset either. Either there is no headset included in the premium pack, Australia doesn't get the headset in any pack or MS happened to print one box out of thousands that contained no picture of a headset and no headset. I am guessing that Australia got shafted. Already spent 1200 dollars on this thing, looks like I need spend 50 more. This page should be updated to reflect this fact. 202.191.106.34 10:07, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi - this is documented in the article, see Xbox_360_launches#Australia_and_New_Zealand Regards, --Oscarthecat 10:21, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Grrr, it still burns me up. Thanks though, I can't believe I missed that before posting here 202.191.106.34 14:36, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

GRAW

Ghost Recon Advance Warefare was technically an Australian launch title, it was available in all stores, in bundles and well, it was a launch title. I don't know how to add that to the launch title list or if it should be added, but just thought I would say 202.191.106.34 14:51, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Failure in Japan?

Several blogs are reporting that the system isn't doing well in Japan at all, with store liquidating their stocks for the equivalent of US$125. Surely this is worth mention in light of the upcoming console wars.[5]

Actually, it is not that accurate. According to Kotaku, "Japanese Kotaku scout Sean A. also wrote into let me know that the price is conditional on signing up for @TCOM service (an ISP that I personally don’t know about, Sean, but thanks for the benefit of the doubt) AND buying an Xbox 360 with your game." I remember this has been also explained during the first sales week, when low prices began appearing and everyone though they were selling Xboxes at a lower cost. -- ReyBrujo 15:58, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Well one thing that is accurate is its poor sales figures. It's performing worse in Japan than the original Xbox did which was pretty bad. Only 81,770 Xbox 360s were sold in Japan in 2005, compared to the 123,000 the original Xbox was able to sell there in its first three days. [6] According to Maruyama, the Executive Officer General Manager for the Xbox division in Japan, the original Xbox sold only 450,000 units as of July 2005. [7] Dionyseus 18:12, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. I was just pointing out that Microsoft won't lower the price of the Xbox in Japan, at least until PS3 officially launches. -- ReyBrujo 01:23, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Core details

This paragraph was removed from the opening section by Mcdonaldsguy. I realise that we need to keep the opening section short, but the information offered here seems to offer some crucial information to gamers.

In all countries except Japan the console is sold in two different configurations: the "Xbox 360" and the "Xbox 360 Core System". The former configuration is often referred to as the "Premium Edition", which includes a hard drive (required for operations including backwards compatibility with selected original Xbox games), a wireless controller, a headset, an Ethernet cable, an Xbox Live silver subscription, and a component HD AV cable (which can also be used on non-HD TVs).

--Oscarthecat 08:10, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Console launch

( I've reinstated this talk thread, was removed earlier, in case others want to contribute. --Oscarthecat 08:16, 28 March 2006 (UTC) )

As the article becomes longer and longer, perhaps it's time we make an "Xbox 360 launch" page just like there is a Nintendo DS launch and PSP launch section? I'm going to do this but if it's unnecessary just change it back. Also, do we need the marketing section anymore? -- McDonaldsGuy 08:01, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I see you've now moved the marketing section to a seperate article, seems a good idea in order to keep the main article leaner and more on-topic. --Oscarthecat 08:16, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Revert

I did an edit earlier, undoing a revert by an anon IP. My comment was "rv - that last anon rv appears bogus - reverted a lot of good work done on the article - please discuss on talk page". If discussion required over whether my rv was incorrect, let's discuss here. --Oscarthecat 11:18, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

About shortening

If you want to shorten this article a bit I've a few suggestions:

Section 'Retail configurations and pricing' cut 3rd paragraph completely

Section 'Launch titles' cut the table at least - this section becomes less relavent as time goes on

Section 'Controller' shorten to 1 paragraph?

Section 'AV connection cables' cut completely

Section 'DVD drive' cut 4th (final) paragraph

Section 'Software developement' shorten XNA, cut Proceedural synth. as a paragraph completely

Other sections could be simplified - eg Does anyone need to know how many 360's were sold in Febuary?, Dashboard section - just too much info - why not just print out the instructon manual (sarcasm).
I won't make these edits myself since I've not been contributing much to the article, but I think these suggestions are fairly impartial if you need an opinion.HappyVR 20:49, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

• I moved the launch titles table to Xbox 360 launch and removed the redundant launch summary. ˉˉ^anetode╞┬╡ 05:01, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

• Well, I (with others) managed to get it below 40k, but we still have around 7k more to go. I have done most of the above (without even looking at the suggestions, evidently :)), but I lightly disagree with removing "AV connection cables", perhaps I'm being crufty though. I'm not entirely sure at the moment what we should do now to shorten length though besides make subarticles or removing useful info.... Just another star in the night ^{T | @ | C} 12:02, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Me again - the articles still long but if it's any consolation it's not that 'heavy' - it's cut up pretty well into sections. However if you really want to shorten it more suggest you remove some of the more wordy paragraphs - for example 'retail configuration and pricing 2nd para' lots of comparison there with the original xbox and the whole thing could be considered speculation due to the business week report. Also pricing comparison table (second part - price on release) - not needed? Again controller section para - lots of comparison with original xbox - probably wouldn't be missed. Connection cables - shorten to types of output supported - I would assume that Microsoft supplies suitable cables for connection included in the price - only worth a comment if they don't? Supported resolutions table - could be replaced with just 'up to 1080i'? 'Diagnosing errors and troubleshooting' again could be said to be unnecessary - it's just another bit out of the manual. also 'disc scratching' could be removed since it can't be considered a flaw really. There's still a lot of 'guff' in there though - for instance the xbox live section practically explains how to use it - surely all that is needed is an explanation of what it is..? The article is quite good though all the same if you ask me.HappyVR 19:53, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

The article is currently at 35K and contains ~ 5,000 words, the WP:SIZE recommended maximum is 6,000-10,000 words. Do we still need the verylong tag? ˉˉ^anetode╞┬╡ 22:08, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Xbox 360 Ring of Light

Hey, I have Xbox 360 that's defective, and is giving me a "3 Red Lights: The Xbox 360 system is experiencing a hardware failure" I'm just wondering whether a pic of the pattern might be a good idea for the red lights pattern area.Delta Elite 01:03, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that's a good idea, there's far too many pictures in this article already. Dionyseus 06:22, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay, but maybe in the future if the articles are split up to shorten the 360 article. I doubt it, but i'm going to keep the photo.-Delta Elite 18:22, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

A good idea might be an illustration? Not a PNG or GIF or even SVG, maybe just use a table with four squares, and put the ones that go red, shaded in red. Just a thought. - ^R_H^e_o^d_t 12:47, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't the manual explain what the lights mean? If it does, I don't see why it needs to be added to this ridiculously long article. Dionyseus 18:51, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

There's really no purpose to it, except that people continue to upload tech support information, or random complaints about crashing. The "Screen of death" info is worse, actually, as there is no mention of an "Xbox 360 screen of death" anywhere except Wikipedia mirrors and sites that rip Wikicontent. I tried to clean up and condense it, but the whole "Technical Issues" section could easily do with two short paragraphs and a couple of links to Xbox tech support sites. All that crap will still get posted though, the only way to deter it would be to split the Technical Issues of to a seperate article. Even then, that article might devolve to a poorly cited list of miscellaneous complaints and half-baked support suggestions. ˉˉ^anetode╞┬╡ 04:01, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Xbox 360 Relaunch

Microsoft is revamping their efforts in Japan. Check it out. [8].Delta Elite 02:09, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

They are releasing a new bundle with Fifa World Cup 2006, according to Gamasutra. [9] -- ReyBrujo 03:58, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Not that I'm correcting you (since "relaunch" is the word the article you showed uses) but I wouldn't exactly call that a relaunch. The context I usually use relaunch in, is a relatively large hardware modification which is promoted as having been changed (not just a quiet change, like Xbox's change from 8GB harddrive to 10GB). Something I would call a relaunch is when Apple upgrade the features of the iPods, cause they not only changed it, but they're advertising the change. - ^R_H^e_o^d_t 12:45, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay.Delta Elite 21:06, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Not sure if anyone noticed but the two articles have contradicting dates. One claims the "relaunch" (which is really just a new bundle game) will be on June 29, the other claims it would be on April 27th. Dionyseus 23:25, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

This is not true, as the April press conference clearly did not involve with this so-called "relaunch".Kenimaru 06:28, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

removed paragraph

"Microsoft's decision has also allowed Japanese developers to fully utilize the hard drive to optimize game performance, since it is part of the default system configuration in their market. However because of the existence of a Core System edition, many games do not require a hard drive."

This paragraph is confusing, contradicts itself, and is basically content-free, so I just removed it entirely. If someone can find something useful to merge out of it please add that back in :). Just another star in the night ^{T | @ | C} 10:40, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking it contradicted itself, but decided to see if anyone else would say anything. I had come very close to removing it several times myself. - ^R_H^e_o^d_t 12:44, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Procedural synthesis

The paragraph dealing with hardware implementation is perhaps the most important part, as the method used in X360's design is pretty unique. Plus it contains the article's only mention of the CPU's lack of support for out-of-order execution. ˉˉ^anetode╞┬╡ 11:12, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't disagree - but when we have a main article generally we should simply summarize whats in that article. I just thought, while interesting, it included a bit more then just a summary - plus there was some advertising language - but if you think otherwise then you probably know more then I do :). Just another star in the night ^{T | @ | C} 12:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, the problem is that the main procedural generation article doesn't really explain the optimizations included in the Xbox 360 design. A summary of procedural generation isn't relevant without that info. You could just write "Xbox 360 games may use procedural generation, for more info see this article" - but then why bring it up at all? ˉˉ^anetode╞┬╡ 12:53, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, now I'm kind of embarassed, the above post is false and the procedural generation article does have X360 technical info. Sorry RN. I now have no objections to cutting this section ˉˉ^anetode╞┬╡ 13:31, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Overheating

The overheating paragraph almost seems biased, probably due to wording...
"Because of its high power consumption and limited capacity to dissipate heat, the Xbox 360 console has a high risk of overheating. Problems associated with overheating include reduced system performance and instability that may result in crashing or hardware failure. Users are advised not to obstruct air flow to the enclosure vents or power supply. Some users have installed custom cooling solutions in their consoles as a preventative measure."
The 360 has a "high risk" of overheating? Only if you don't follow the reccomendations and warnings expressly stated in the manual. Editing the paragraph as such. Gspawn 14:32, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Profits

Unless I'm mistaken, M$ announced the Xbox did indeed make an overall swing around to the profit side around the time of Halo 2's launch. And also unless I'm mistaken, M$'s entertainment division did very well for itself and absorbed the Xbox's losses while reporting its own profits for most of the lifecycle. Am I completely crazy, or does this portion need to be revamped/removed? Gspawn 14:47, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I would say you are quite sane :) - seriously, I'd get some relaliable sources and just go for it :). Just another star in the night ^{T | @ | C} 15:07, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Microsoft's Home Division did have its first quarterly profit around the release of halo 2, as reported late-January 2005[10]. However a Forbes article from October 2005 states that "The Xbox game console is hot, but its division has lost $4 billion in four years and isn't yet in the black."[11] So the statements in the article are accurate: "Microsoft's home entertainment division posted a loss through nearly every quarter of the console's lifecycle" (note "nearly"). Profits made by the Xbox division were not bolstered by system sales, since Microsoft repeatedly slashed the Xbox's price. The section is factually correct, if a bit wordy. ˉˉ^anetode╞┬╡ 15:57, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

GamesIndustry is reporting that Microsoft revealed a Q3 loss of USD 388 million in its Home and Entertainment division, which houses the Xbox 360 console, despite a gain in revenue and an overall profit for the company. [12] -- ReyBrujo 12:44, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Backwards Compatibility Update

The backwards compatibility update makes the IGN backwards compatible article in references outdated. Discuss. TRega123

Hi - in what way does it make the IGN article outdated? Have had a peek and it's not immediately apparent. Thanks. --Oscarthecat 17:57, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Retail pricing

This section keeps on growing. Will it only be complete once it's got every country in there, with the pricing? As such, seems a little dull + non-notable. If it's going to have all countries in there, should we just move it to a separate article? --Oscarthecat 06:12, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I've been looking at this with 'raised eyebrows' for some time - yes -moving to a different article would be a solution -((a better than one than what I would do which is to delete the whole stupid section and stonewall any idiot who tries to put it back in))- sorry got a bit carried away there - agree separate article.HappyVR 07:27, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I've been bold then, and wiped the sorry looking section into its own article, Xbox 360 pricing. --Oscarthecat 17:51, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I think that someone (either here or at the pricing article) some mention should be made of the general retail availability. Are the machines sitting on shelves in good quantity, or does one still have to buy a big bundle of games or be put on a waiting list to get one? Johntex\^talk 18:54, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

That would certainly be useful, but would it become out of date too quickly? Also, would we need a section for every country? Could be more suitable on a forum instead perhaps? I know that in the UK there's plenty nowadays, but bet that's not the case in some other areas. --Oscarthecat 19:48, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it will go out of date too quickly if we don't try to make it incredibly specific. Hypotheitcal example of what we should NOT do: "Toys 'R Us is currently selling a bundle with Xbox 360, Game 1, Game 2, Game 3 for ___ and their website claims the average shipping time is 13 days." We could put this info into a table with "country" down the side, then columns for "Retailers selling bare units off the shelf", "Retailers selling only bundles" "Retailers reporting waiting lists". We could even have a column for "Data updated". If a country is not experiencing shortages, then the line for that country could just say - widely available with no wait-list. We could also link to a forum if there is a good one that is maintaining this information. Johntex\^talk 20:04, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

The table was pretty ugly, but an article that concerns only Xbox 360 pricing is just a stub, its only paragraph is copied from the main article. I'm going to try and implement a different way to display the regional sales table by using a div header, hopefully this way the info would appear unobtrusive. ˉˉ^anetode╞┬╡ 04:48, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

On this topic, I was looking for the price of the 360 in america and couldn't find it on this page, I added a little something, but am not up to the speach of wikipedia, please edit it.

Top-Selling Games

Where are people getting this information from? Has ES4 really sold more copies than COD2? (Wouldn't surprise me though) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tgraham87 (talk • contribs)

You are correct. Call of Duty 2 is still the top selling Xbox 360 game, not Oblivion. TJ Spyke 19:50 22, April 2006 (ET)

HDMI

Why does the X360 doesn't have an HDMI output? 201.145.144.97 22:58, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Because Microsoft didn't finish their console unlike Sony. McDonaldsGuy 10:00, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

The Xbox360 does not have a HD-DVD or BluRay drive and thus doesn't 'need' HDMI. The lack of DVI (via HDMI or otherwise) is disapointing. However it is quite possiable that one will be released at a latter date (next E3 being a likley point) by Microsoft or a 3rd party.vortex 02:56, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Exactly what I said... Microsoft didn't finish their console so they're adding peripherals to finish it when it's already released. McDonaldsGuy 14:30, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

HD DVD was not part of the X360 plan, as it would never made the launch date in 05. Kenimaru 06:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Yup, Microsoft couldn't wait to finish their console so they rushed an unfinished console which will be dead by 2007. Poor MS :( McDonaldsGuy 17:59, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Yep...unfinished...just like the PS3 basic/core and the Wii... both of which will lack HDMI even though they have a year+ extra development time on the XB360. How about you troll elsewhere? OT it's worth noting that MS has released info on the HD-DVD drive for the XB360 but nothing so far on HDMI/DVI support :(vortex 02:41, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

The PS3 "Core" system is far more finished than the Xbox 180. McDonaldsGuy 05:26, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Why don't we all wait until the PS3 comes out before we all argue about which is better. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.30.225.140 (talk • contribs) .

The core system? You mean the nonupgradeable system with no HDMI? No ability to use memory sticks, no ability to upgrade... Jesus SonyFanboi's are as bad as the MacFanboi's. --Evil.Merlin 15:11, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually it IS upgradeable except it has no HDMI and neither does the Xbox 360, at least the Premium PS3 has HDMI. Why should use Sony Fanboys for using a true next-gen console? McDonaldsGuy 06:20, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

USB ports

Last time I checked, the USB ports, although supported USB 2, had less power going to anything plugged into, making a normal USB stick impossible to use. I think this should probably be mentioned somewhere in the article, but then again, I could be wrong. --RabidZombie 18:24, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

The Microsoft memory stick is a normal memory stick! As for the amount of power suppied it's hard to know. It's enough for WiFi adapaters and controllers, which means it must be suppling a fair amount.vortex 03:01, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

It has plenty of power. I've had USB sticks, charging kits, a USB hub plugged in all at the same time, no problemsDelta Spartan 05:11, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

The USB 2.0 ports on the Xbox 360 have just as much power going through them that any other USB 2.0 port does. It's a standard, which means that the rules have to be followed completley. It might be a defective console, but it's not the architecture of the motherboard, that's for sure. --CanesOL79 16:54, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

New External Link

I would like to add the following new external link for the Xbox 360 page.

Pixel Gamers - Xbox 360 News, Podcast, Screenshots, Previews & Reviews

I use this site every day and find it a valuable resource that provides the information I want clearly.

15:07, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Linux on 360

I'm starting a discussion to reach a mutual agreement on weather to keep the Linux for X360 external link, please contribute. I hope to start some discussion first, and eventually we'll vote for it if necessary.

• I'm against such link, because 1) it's not about Xbox 360, rather more about Linux and 2) it requires modification, which in a way promotes software piracy, and 3) it's not what the X360 is used for. Kenimaru 23:15, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. To address User:Kenimaru's concerns :-

1. It is about Xbox 360. It's about running Linux on Xbox 360. It also offers a very interesting insight (to me, anyway, as an engineer) into how the Xbox 360 works.

2. What modification does it need? I'm not sure any progress has been made in showing what modifications should be done. When/if they do detail modifications needed, in what way does this promote software piracy? This is about running Linux on another platform : it's not about piracy.

3. It's not what Microsoft want the hardware was to be used for, agreed. Unclear on your reasoning about this. Microsoft want to run Internet Explorer instead of Mozilla Firefox, so should we delete the Firefox article?

Furthermore, Linux has a long history of being ported to various hardware platforms, including Sega Dreamcast, Playstation 2 (which Sony even made official, see PS2 Linux), Xbox

• • I can't see why a project to convert it to another platform, Xbox 360, should be discouraged or hidden from view. The project has already made good progress in enabling the Xbox 360 controller to be used with FreeBSD. --Oscarthecat 06:40, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

• To counter your claims, I have the following:

1. So you are saying that, just because Linux can be run on it, every intel CPU pages needs a link to a linux site which supports the ISA? seems invalid. It is about linux, not Xbox 360, and if you want such link on the Linux page, please do so, but not here.

Have you looked at the Free60 site? It is purely about running Linux on the Xbox 360. So a link on the Xbox 360 page is the right place to put it. A link on the Linux page to every platform would be impractical, but putting a link on each individual platform's article is a great idea. --Oscarthecat 07:46, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Like I said, it's about Linux running on the 360, instead of Xbox 360 'officially supporting Linux.

2. Simply put, you can't run unofficial software on consoles unless you modify it, and modification is highly associated with piracy, which comes down do, do we really need any info to teach people how to crack the Xbox 360 here? I think NOT.

Wrong. It's not always necessary to modify hardware in order to run unofficial software, it's known as a "softmod", see [13] if you're interested. Your association argument doesn't work : P2P protocols such as Bit torrent is associated with piracy, but there's still plenty of references to it in wikipedia. Should wikipedia stick its head in the sand, ostrich-style, and pretend such things don't exist? Should we start a push to remove any references to P2P from Wikipedia? --Oscarthecat 07:46, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

That's not to say that Wikipedia should have a link to a BT publishing site, is it? I'm well aware of the softmod, but again, the majority of people doing Linux are using modchip, is it not?

3. What does Firefox have to do with this? Sorry for the name-calling, but it seems you are inserting that linux link becuase your are anti-Microsoft? Many linux-supporters have this mentality, and you surely sounds like one to me. And so that PS2 can run linux officially, does the Xbox 360? NO, and on both the Dreamcast and Xbox page, there are NO external links to promote a linux website, and frankly I just don't think this is how things are done on Wikipedia.

That's quite an accusation. I'm not anti-microsoft, I'm just for free speech. I wouldn't like to accuse you of working for Microsoft.

IE/Mozilla was just an easy (and relevant, as also Microsoft) example. --Oscarthecat 07:46, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I just feel that it's rather a bad example, as Firefox is just a standard application running on the Windows platform, in contrast to that Linux on Xbox is a mod.

• • I'm having problem about using Wikipedia for promoting for one's own interest, especially when this piece of information, is highly irrelevant to the subject. It's almost like, now we have a modchip for PS2, then we insert a link to an online store which supplies the modchip, is it not? Granted that, if one day, when someone actually ports linux on Xbox 360, then we can have a sentence of two mentioning it in the paragraph, but to have a link to the actualy linux site? On the site note, the Xbox 360 controller is compatible with any Windows PC, and having it work on FreeBSD is again, totally irrelavent to the subject. This link does NOT provide relevant information, but rather PROMOTES traffic to a website, thus it should be removed. Kenimaru 07:20, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Bad example. Free60 is a nonprofit wiki site (like wikipedia is).

The non-frofit nature is totally irrelavent, as xbox.com is a commercial website, so are IGN or Gamespot, but they are still essential pieces of information on Wikipedia.

Xbox 360 controller : it is indeed compatible with Windows PC. The same community which work on Free60 produced code to get the controller working on FreeBSD, see [14]. Again, not something that Microsoft envisaged, so should we veto any mention of this also? Wikipedia is about community, it's not a police state.

Can I suggest we each step away from this discussion, and see what others think/propose? Whichever way the keep/delete argument goes, I'll follow the concensus, of course. --Oscarthecat 07:46, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Sure, but I feel obligated to respond to the arguments, that's all. Kenimaru 20:07, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd say the real question is... Is it illegal to run Linux on Xbox 360? If it requires hardware mods, promoting sites that illustrate how to get around the machine's protection and encryption is undoubtedly illegal. If it can be done with software, you are running reverse engineered software on the machine and such software is probably illegal too because it allows a user to bypass the machine's protection again. Linux on Xbox 360 is fascinating from an academic angle so if it's not horribly illegal I think it should have a link, but it should not be a major part of the 360's page here. Linux on 360 is just not a realistic use for the machine for the majority of people. --Swaaye 17:17, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

"I'm against such link, because 1) it's not about Xbox 360, rather more about Linux and 2) it requires modification, which in a way promotes software piracy, and 3) it's not what the X360 is used for. Kenimaru 23:15, 4 May 2006 (UTC)"

^^^Dude, Linux is open-source, which means anyone can get the code and do whatever they want to it. It's not piracy... --CanesOL79 16:55, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Whoah dude - the OP was talking about reverse engineering (DMCA etc) and leveraging any exploit to permit running of "home brew" or pirated games, not Linux itself. --Oscarthecat 18:01, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Halo 3

Please help improve the article. jaco♫plane 21:00, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I like the idea of an article that is full of the latest cream of the crop info about Halo 3, count me in ^ ^JayKeaton 15:04, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Article's going great! Count me in too.-Delta Spartan 05:12, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I know this may be a little too early, but how about we all make a Halo 3 wikiproject?-Delta Spartan 06:10, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Before the game is released I doubt there would be support for any more Halo 3-specific articles than just Halo 3... so a WikiProject now would probably be jumping the gun a bit. Remy B 06:59, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Agree, project before the game even comes out may be straying into WP:NOT territory. That said, it's great to have all the info /speculation/rumours/allegations collected together. --Oscarthecat 07:10, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

HD DVD

Is a normal 360 game cd a HD DVD!? >x<ino 15:52, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

It's just a DVD, not a CD or a HD-DVD. Remy B 16:47, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

The Xbox 360 doesn't even support HD-DVD. --Optichan 19:19, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Theoretical system bandwidth

Xbox and Playstation 3 specify theoretical bandwidth. Since Xbox 360 bandwidth isn't the result of a benchmark but a theoretical calculation (p.e. (2 GHz × 2 accesses per clock x 64 bit) = (2*2*64)/8 GB/s = 32 GB/s ) maybe it's more precise to indicate the theoretical nature of the bandwidth. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yearofthedragon (talk • contribs) .

modification

It appears the 360's been modded with some sort of firmware fix. Since there's such a large section on modifications in the old xbox article, perhaps one should be started here?

Here's the mod in question:

http://bt.xbox-sky.com/review.php?id=8841&page=1&p=1

formatting - retail configurations and pricing

Hello, I notice that you have a box (that opens and closes at the touch of a button) - very usefull - could someone supply a link to the formatting guidlines for this feature, or an explanation of code grammar. Thanks.HappyVR 12:25, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

HDMI upgrade?

I was wondering, Is it possible for MS to upgrade the 360 for HDMI with a Firmware Update and a new cable? Or is HDMI something that need to be physically built into the console?-Delta Spartan 03:52, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean : you can already buy cables which hook the XBOX to a hi-def screen, using HDMI, see [15] --Oscarthecat 07:09, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Not sure if that's real or not. See Engadget's thoughts on it. I'm not even sure if the Xbox 360 is able to output an HDMI compatible signal, but if this is real it should be added to the article. --Kamasutra 07:16, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

PS3 will never win you will never win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! xbox 360 shall crush you all You may stand behind you paper walls your lies will not protect you forever Xbox will win. we will crush and destroy all you ps3 scum. All hail the wraith of Bill Gates our eternal leader

you will never beat the xbox 360s might!

________________toga 2000______________