Talk:K. P. Yohannan

Edit warring

I have fully protected this article due to the edit war. Please use the talk page to discuss and work out differences in the article in accordance with WP:Consensus. If you cannot agree, please consider WP:DR. The article has been protected as it was when I found it. If the content is perceived to violate WP:BLP, it may be reverted during the discussion, but there will need to be some explanation of how it fails that policy. Please feel free to explain here, with {{Edit protected}}. (Please be specific about the issue you perceive. Critical commentary is permitted on Wikipedia, as long as it is properly sourced and otherwise meets the requirements of WP:BLP.) --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 20:20, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Keeping the controversy Section in this article

LoveYourNeighbor1

I am having the Annual report of FCRA published by the Home Ministry Of India from 2003 to 2009. It clearly shows how much amount Gospel For Asia (USA) had send to India and how much money Gospel For Asia (India) and Believers Church had totally shown as received and spend for charity. I have solid proof of every real estate transactions done by Gospel For India and their office bearers. Believers church is having a Engineering college in Kerala and one medical college is under construction. Can you please let us know how many students of these colleges are from any of the charity mission supported by this organization. Childrens from mission are not meant to study only in Bible colleges. They can also become doctors and engineers. Where did the money came to build such big infrastructures? You mean the purpose of purchasing 2800 acres of land is charity. Then why doesn't that charity apply when some economically backward people tried to encroach the land under this organization. Why was force including the people of this organization and police applied to remove them from the estate? Why had international amateur radio union monitoring system ordered to remove transmission of Gospel For Asia from Issodun ? Why certain sections of the website of Gospel For Asia is redirected using a CDN script from accessing in India? Benedictdilton (talk) 21:43, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

LoveYourNeighbor1 This page is not about Gospel For Asia this is about K P Yohannan. So your question about raising complaint about an organization don't apply here. I had provided supported reference of credible published media. If you can find any reference that corroborate aganist the points raised by me in the controversy section I am always happy to remove it. I had never heared in my life a pastor being consecrated as a Bishop and he then ordain himself as a Metropolitan. If these kind of matters are hidden from the eyes of the public time will not be far that he declares himself as the Pope. There are media reports by the home minister of Kerala stating that Gospel For Asia is a 7 member trust comprising K P Yohannan and his family members.Benedictdilton (talk) 10:04, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

I believe the following two points should be removed unless sourced better. -crores collected for charity and rehabilitation of Orphans used to purchase 2800 acres of land in Kerala. [12] - this source in no way makes this statement. It states that land was purchased, but it does not say that they used money collected for charity for this purpose. -On a case filed by the Government Of Kerala the High Court Of Kerala had ordered not to sell the land held by him or create any liability. [13] - not a reliable source for a BLP LoveYourNeighbor1 (talk) 13:08, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

LoveYourNeighbor1

I would like to chance the first point as follows

" Foreign Funds Of Rs 1044 crores received in the last 15 years was diverted to purchase 2800 acres of land including 2200 acres of Cheruvally estate " Its almost equal to what mentioned on the article.

On the second point moderators and admin can take a decision on the credibility of the source and take any action they seems fit.

Benedictdilton (talk) 15:42, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Regarding first point - it is already stated in the article. No need to repeat allegations.

In order to better follow BLP guidelines, I think that the introduction should change the term controversy to allegation, and we need to include that none of the allegations have been proven in a court of law as of today. Proposed text is "Yohannan's work has been the subject of various allegations which have not been proven or confirmed in any court of law." Then, any well sourced allegations can be added. This will ensure that Presumption in Favor of Privacy is followed.LoveYourNeighbor1 (talk) 16:17, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Let us take a look at what others had to say about this topic. I am against changing the section name. Controversy is the word that suits this kind of situations. If you have any reference against the points noted here kindly quote that. I am open to edit it. Admin and moderators can take any action that they seems fit for the situation. Benedictdilton (talk) 16:26, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

As a reader, I would be interested in knowing what the results of any investigations were. 1. What happened to the petition filed by the Kerala Government in point 7? 2. What are the results of tracking that 1048 crore in point 8? 3. They were accused of land grab in point 9. Were they convicted? Did the government confiscate the land? 4. What was the result of the Home Department investigation in point 10? You seem to have a lot of information on these topics. Are these investigation still going on? Do we have their case numbers? Is there an update. It seems strange to have so many investigations started on allegations with no further details on anything, especially since some of these are over 8 years old.LoveYourNeighbor1 (talk) 18:17, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Dear LoveYourNeighbor1 I don't think you as a reader. I clearly feel you are hell bend on making sure all articles related to K P Yohannan, Gospel For Asia and Believers Church looks clean. Are you aware of the procedure for a person to become a Bishop in an episcopal church. All norms were floated to make Mr K P Yohannan a Bishop. Why you want to hide that fact from the public? These people should have done a lot of good things start a new section and mention it over there. How can you justify throwing a muslim girl out of the school for wearing her traditional head scarf ? If I start to put all the information I collected today evening about these people then I feel one page wont be enough. I don't have any more time to waste after this on this matter As people like you are working over time to make sure that nobody should criticize these guys. I am having answer to all your questions except the second one. I can publish it here if any of the moderators or admin think that I should do so. If you want we can start from the case these guys filed to obtain the domain gfa.org . Why should I worry about the donation given by 1,01,600 United States federal employees under Combined Federal Campaign Why should I worry about money wasted on the name Charity??? Benedictdilton (talk) 22:28, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Mantaining, cleaning or removing Controversy section

Well, there is clearly an ongoing discussion regarding the maintenance of Controversy section in this very same article, to uninvolved editors a edit war took place regarding this matter, one editor is in against keeping controversy section while the other on the opposite side, so to reach a better outcome I think a RfC should take place to help this resolution. Eduemoni^↑talk↓ 00:58, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Please feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with #'''Support''' or #'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons. Also avoid threading the opposing or support statements, any comment goes in the subsequent section.

Support

its absolutely true...kp yoahann is a corrupt man top to bottom....he accumulate and collect money from various people for helping indian poor children but he siphoned this to his personnel assets, recently kp yoahannan purchased 2800 acres of rubber estate ....those who paid the charity knows that he buying rubber estate.....? and kp yoahanna investing money fro various other real estate projects....and bishop yohanan is not a proper ordained bishop...he paid money to various other church leaders and forcefully those attended the ordained functions....this topic was very well discussed in kerala.....yohanann native village and tiruvalla knows him very well, he is a fraud bishop

2) Support

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/an-archbishop-s-spiritual-factory/323561/

http://mobilepaper.timesofindia.com/mobile.aspx?article=yes&pageid=5&sectid=edid=&edlabel=TOIKRKO&mydateHid=27-09-2012&pubname=Times%252Bof%252BIndia%252B-%252BKochi%2526amp%253Bedname%253D%2526amp%253Barticleid%253DAr00501%2526amp%253Bpublabel%253DTOI

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-11-27/news/35385866_1_delhi-high-court-notice-google-india-pvt-google-and-facebook

http://www.hindu.com/2003/02/10/stories/2003021003650400.htm

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-01-22/news/0501220303_1_texas-based-evangelical-group-christian-groups-christian-communities

http://www.moneylife.in/article/kerala-files-petition-against-harrisons-malayalam-and-gospel-for-asia-founder/29963.html

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2008-06-10/india/27743194_1_trust-charitable-purposes-kerala

http://newindianexpress.com/cities/kochi/article535507.ece

http://www.hindu.com/2010/07/14/stories/2010071452840500.htm

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080713/jsp/7days/story_9543119.jsp

http://newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/article1419421.ece

http://www.indiankanoon.org/doc/107206744/

http://www.hindu.com/2011/03/29/stories/2011032954960300.htm

http://newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/article564816.ece

www.bccaarmelcollege.org/pdf/CMLProspectus.pdf

http://www.hindu.com/2008/11/14/stories/2008111455380600.htm

http://indiankanoon.org/doc/1319285/

https://sites.google.com/site/legalindiaresearch/judgments/kerala-high-court/2011-klr/-2011-209-klr/-2011-209-klr-628/2011209klr628

http://newindianexpress.com/cities/kochi/article535507.ece

http://www.madhyamam.com/en/node/6891

http://www.indiankanoon.org/doc/136331180/

http://www.indiankanoon.org/doc/184669251/?type=print

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/hc-quashes-government-notice-to-believers-church/164052-60-122.html

http://www.hindu.com/2008/05/28/stories/2008052855261000.htm

http://zeenews.india.com/news/kerala/hc-notice-to-centre-on-pil-seeking-probe-into-church-funds_640663.html

http://indiankanoon.org/doc/960143/

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2010-09-06/news/27566929_1_religious-fundamentalism-kerala-intelligence-reports

http://www.hindu.com/2010/07/14/stories/2010071452840500.htm

http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?cp-documentid=5253677

http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/26/stories/2007102661640400.htm

http://www.hindu.com/2008/06/12/stories/2008061253400300.htm

All users interested in this article are requested to go through the above links and give a genuine opinion. Marktaylor12 (talk) 06:29, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

3 Support Believers Church was a pentacostal church from the starting. It became a Episcopal church because of the money power of Mr Yohannan. No norms of the Episcopal church were followed to ordain him as a bishop. Believers church was in the news again because of their move to convert itself as a Jacobite Church. 74.50.123.9 (talk) 07:06, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

4 Support Please refer to the Chicago Tribune link in the above post. Forcing gospel while taking advantage of the needy people is not acceptable. This is not what Jesus Christ preached and practiced. 101.63.201.51 (talk) 07:31, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose - At least until the content can be improved by editors who have knowledge about everything, I believe the controversy section should be placed in the talk page LoveYourNeighbor1 (talk) 03:02, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
2. Oppose - This section is confusing and does not make sense 166.137.116.25 (talk) 05:32, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
3. Oppose - Since Biographies of Living Persons have a higher standard to meet this section should be moved or removed until it can be written in a way that properly conveys the information while avoiding confusion. As currently written it looks libelous which is highly undesirable in this forum Truthseeker877 (talk) 05:51, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Related discussion

the cotravorcy part of kp yohannan absolutely its true....bishop yoahannan is not a proper ordained bishop as per Episcopal way,.because of his money muscle power he paid illicit money to various churches leaders,bishops and they attended the function finally it was criticize several independent church leaders, during the church managing committee , those who attended church bishops apologized unconditionally ...and they unanimously stated kp yohannan is not a ordained bishop and these people will never invite Mr yohanana for any other church functions as usually ... bishop yohanan collected money from various place for helping indian poor children and he siphoned money for buying for his personnel property....buying the rubber plantations, anyone pay charity ......? buying real estate property any people in the world will pay for charity.....?top to bottom he is a corrupt....his native place and tiruvalla people knows him very well how much dirt this person have — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.22.217.174 (talk) 03:06, 24 April 2013 (UTC)