Talk:Abraham Van Helsing

Books and plays about descendants

I planned to add information about Jesper Tillberg's books about Lennart van Helsing to the descendants section, but suddenly there is no place to add this. A lot of updates have been made since my latest, and a lot of them were good updates (like removing spoilers) but why has the entire book and theatre subsections been removed?? --Oa (talk) 21:47, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Deleted text

In my latest update I removed these paragraphs:

• The TV series Angel, a spin off of Buffy the Vampire Slayer following the exploits of Buffy Summers's vampire paramour Angel, prominently featured an 18th century human vampire-hunting antagonist, based on Van Helsing and named Daniel Holtz, who, having been brought to the future by a demon seeking to avert a prophecy that Angel's son would kill him, relentlessly tracked Angelus across Europe in order to avenge the death of his wife and children, continuing his pursuit into the future even after Angel was cursed with his soul, eventually having himself killed to try and create the impression that Angel had murdered him.
• The Journal of Professor Abraham Van Helsing* by Allen C. Kupfer is a "slim novel [that] purportedly contains an 1886 diary by the famous vampire hunter Van Helsing of Dracula fame, annotated by Kupfer's long-lost grandpa and unearthed in Kupfer's grandmother's attic" (from *Publisher's Weekly*).
• In the novel Department 19 by Will Hill one of the founding members of Department 19 is Abraham Van Helsing.

Not because they are irrelevant, but because they were put in the descendants section without mentioning any descendants, and I don't know what section to move them to.
--Oa (talk) 23:04, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

The many faces of Van Helsing

Fantasy room and Abraham's boys (which both are mentioned in the descendants section) comes from an anthology called The many faces of Van Helsing. As far as I can see, Fantasy room doesn't fit in that section since it appears to be about Abraham van Helsing himself and not his relatives. We could mention it (and/or the anthology of which it is a part) in another section instead.
--Oa (talk) 13:28, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Took care of it. Fantasy room is now unmentioned and the anthology is mentioned together with Abraham's boys. Also the book Young Dracula (which inspired the tv series of the same name) has been added.
--Oa (talk) 12:02, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Descendants

Updates have been made...

Buffy

Someone added the fact that Van Helsing is a watcher in the buffyverse. Is this the Van Helsing or a descendant. If it's the former, this should be moved to "References to Van Helsing in other media". --Oa (talk) 12:08, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Digital Knight This doesn't really fit here, but can be interesting anyway. It seems to be about a guy called Jason Wood who gets to deal with vampires. At one point he presents himself as John Van Helsing. As far as I can see, he is not related to any Van Helsing, but the name is just something he makes up. --Oa 23:07, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Like I said, it doesn't fit there, so it's still not mentioned in the section. However, we could add it under "References to Van Helsing in other media". --Oa (talk) 12:08, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Dracula AD 1972 This is a part of the Hammer Draculas, but includes a character called Lawrence Van Helsing. How he fits into any version of the story is beyond my understanding (but I haven't seen these movies). He seems to Lorimer's (How is this name spelled, by the way?) ancestor who dealt with Dracula a long time ago. However there already seems to be a character like that in J. Van Helsing. --Oa 23:07, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Seems someone hade taken care of this one already. However I'm thinking that maybe there are two versions of the story in the Hammer movies. That would be extra confusing since some actors appear in both. --Oa (talk) 12:08, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Van Helsing According to the article on Gabriel Van Helsing, Gabriel has a son called Lionel, and is related to John Van Helsing and Rupert Van Helsing. However I haven't found any other sources for this. --Oa 23:07, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

And someone removed this. Guess it got there by premature conclusions, so the removal was probably justified. Still I wonder what caused the conclusions in the first place.

The following has been added, but someone who knows more of them could evolve the quality of the information. --Oa (talk) 12:08, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Someone should mention this movie [Adventures of Young Van Helsing: Quest for the Lost Scepter] under media appearances of Van Helsing descendants. It's cheesy and was made as a quick straight-to-DVD cash-in to coincide with the release of the Hugh Jackman Van Helsing movie, but it did have a widespread DVD release, which I think should justify its inclusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.65.212.252 (talk) 21:13, 16 October 2007 (UTC) Ah. I just updated that section, but missed this. Also, I have already found more examples. I'm not sure about all the sources, though. Right now, the following seem to lack: Sword of Dracula With Veronica "Ronnie" Van Helsing. Helsing Not to be confused with Hellsing. This comic by Caliber Comics is about a Samantha Helsing and a John Van Helsing. Immortal Hunters A short story by Suz deMello, featuring a John Van Helsing with a son kidnapped by vampires. Adventures of Young Van Helsing: The Quest for the Lost Scepter With Michael Harris or Michael Van Helsing, descendant of Abrahamn Van Helsing. Faith - The Van Helsing Chronicles The main character seem to be Faith van Helsing, daughter to Adam and Melissa van Helsing. Michael, John and Samuel van Helsing are also mentioned. I read about this on these German pages: http://www.eisshinryu.com/cgi-bin/amazon_products_feed-item_id-3936614415-search_type-AsinSearch-locale-de.html http://www.experiment-stille.de/include.php?path=forum/showthread.php&threadid=627 But I'm not very good at German, so I would enjoy if someone gave any enlightment on this topic. The Van Helsing Chronicles ~PART V~ The title is simular to the one above, but I'm not sure they have much to do with each other. However this seem to include characters called Edward and Jon Van Helsing. --Oa 23:07, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

van Helsing

Maybe a good idea to write the name of van Helsing correct. The "van" in his name is like the "of" in Robin of Locksley, its not written in capital. Yes I know that Bram Stoker himself wrote the name this way, but thats not a reason to write it wrong like he did. So if it would be a real Dutch surname then it would be written "van Helsing" and not "Van Helsing" . Oh and SAMPA wise it would be "vAn" instead of "ven". Sitethief 12:50, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I disagree -- as a fictional character, it's Stoker's usage sets the standard by which criticism should adhere.

It's a sticky issue besides: although "Van Helsing" may litterally translate into "of Helsing," that does not mean that it is being used in the archaic sense. While Leonardo da Vinci's name is clearly "Leonardo" and not "da Vinci," this naming convention has developed into last names as well: Ludwig van Beethoven is not "Ludwig" of "Beethoven," his last name is "Beethoven," same as his father's. "Van Helsing" is clearly closer to the later example than the former, except that Stoker included the "Van" as part of the last name, instead of as a conjunction.

So -- the question at hand is really wheather this is a common convention in modern names, or a mistake on Stoker's part. I know nothing about how to speak Dutch, so it is impossible for me to say wheather the Duch langauge has adopted the "van" into last names. Something in the back of my head is saying that in English, however, people of Germanic origins have often done so.

At the end of the day, however, this point is moot. Stoker clearly intended "Van Helsing" to function, in its entirty, as a last name. The character is always called "Van Helsing," never just "Helsing," and always with a capital "V." ~CS 18:41, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

In Dutch, surnames work in a very simple way. If you speak of the entire name (including first name) the "van" or "de" shouldn't be with a capital (so: Abraham van Helsing, Jan de Wit, Johanna van den Akker). Without the first name, it should be with a capital (so: Dr. Van Helsing, Mr. De Wit, Van den Akker). Clear? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.71.101.161 (talk) 19:29, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

No, not quite. If there's a title, like Dr. or Mr., it isn't capitalised. Only when the name is used without anything, the "van" gets capitalised, like in "Van Helsing did this or that". (I'm Dutch) 85.147.216.31 (talk) 17:44, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Yet one interpretation would be that the name has been miswritten by Mina Harker, since she was the one who made the typed versions of all the documents that Dracula consists of (according to itself). --Oa (talk) 12:08, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

The text states: "Cushing's character in the Hammer movies may not have had the first name "Abraham" as his case reads J. Van Helsing, as seen in The Brides of Dracula." Actually, his case is simply lettered "JVH." As that would seem to be an odd way to initialize his compound last name, some have speculated that this case formerly belonged to his friend, the late Jonathan [V.] Harker -- that man carried a similar prop in Dracula (1958). Also, Cushing's chgaracter is referred to at least once as "Doctor Helsing," which suggests that "Van" could be his first name!WHPratt (talk) 13:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm a native Dutch speaker and I can say that "van" can be written both with a capital V or not, regardless of whether the surname precedes the family name or not. With names, pretty much anything goes in Dutch. The same with "de" (as in "the") for example in Jan de Ridder or Jan De Ridder (John the Knight if you want a literal translation). Both are equally correct. If "de", "van" or almost anything else is the first character in a sentence, it's almost always capitalized. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.226.0.172 (talk) 17:07, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

removed lines

Tried to revise the following lines, but the points themselves border on irrelevance:

It is interesting to note Van Helsing's speech in the novel. He generally speaks English approximatively, redundantly, filling it with biblical allusions - while Dracula is also a foreigner but speaks English without accent. But when he is in agitation, he suddenly begins to speak correctly.

When Van Helsing is upset, he begins speaking German: "Gott im Himmel!" It is possible that Bram Stoker thought it was Dutch, but the correct Dutch would be "God in de hemel!"

Futhermore, I would bet Stoker knew what was Dutch and what was German. People often adopt single phrases from other languages, especially since the Dutch tradition is multilingual and the character is a doctor. Regardless, it's unsourced and speculative at best. - IstvanWolf 23:45, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, the information there is actually pretty incorrect considering that Dracula does speak with an accent, he simply speaks with close to perfect grammar, as well as the fact that Van Helsing's speech is pretty much the same throughout the story. And as to Van Helsing speaking German at times, I'm sure Stoker knows the difference between Dutch and German, and in addition Van Helsing speaks other languages, such as Latin, at times as well.

Still, that being said, I still think it would be a good idea to include a note or two about Van helsing's manner of speaking, considering that it's a pretty significant part of his character. He;s the only character other than Dracula who's not English, and he has a very distinct style of speaking. In addition to his grammatial quirks (such as referring to inanimate objects as "he", and calling Dr. Seward "Friend John"), he very often makes reference and allusion to many different authors and works of literature in his speech, and such. Whle this isn't terribly important, it's still a pretty interesting, significant and unique trait the character has, and I think it could use a mention in the article, if only a line or two. Calgary (talk) 20:03, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

page title

User:Rei-Ginsei moved the article to Van Helsing(Novel Character), saying (in the edit history) "Abraham is subject to frequent change in the movies. Half of which dont even reveal first name."

I have moved it back, because this article is about the character in the novel (a point User:Rei-Ginsei admits in his/her choice of alternative title), and so what happens in the movies is irrelevant: this article is about the character in the novel, whose name is Abraham Van Helsing. --Paul A 02:04, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I notice that User:Rei-Ginsei has moved this page again. I find this rather absurd. This article is clearly about the original character "Abraham Van Helsing," from the novel. The article rightfully mentions variant names in various adaptations at the bottom of the article, but I do not believe that this is a reason for an article move. Furthermore, if the adaptations' name changes are the problem with calling this page "Abraham Van Helsing", why on Earth would "Van Helsing (Novel character)" be an improvement? If anything, it indicates that this page operates at the exclusion of film adaptations, where the original title did not. ~CS 04:07, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Well shouldn't the article be about the overall character and not just the original. The way the Dracula, and Frankenstein pages, should be more about the overall pop-culture phenomana of the franchises, than the original works? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rei-Ginsei (talk • contribs).

I can't even begin to understand what you mean. Both the Dracula and the Frankenstein articles are about the novels by that name. Later adaptations are mentioned at the bottom of the articles, and links are given to other pages regarding modern works that 'borrow' the characters. This article has a long way to go before it's of the same quality as the Dracula and Frankenstein articles, but like them it should give weight first and foremost to the literary character. All other uses are incidental, or belong in separate articles.

PS -- please sign your talk page posts by putting ~~~~ at the end of each edit. This makes it easier for everyone to keep track of who says what on a talk page. Thanks! ~CS 06:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Rei-Ginsei: please stop making unilateral and unexplained moves, reversions and deletions of material on this page without discussing it here first. The current name meets Wikipedia's naming conventions, and you're deleting the legitmate cleanup of other editors without cause. ~CS 21:24, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Your agrgument is like saying that Count Dracula should have Vlad in the title.

I have no idea what you mean to say here -- but I'd like to apologize for the edit summery in my last edit. I became confused with all the moves and edits, and you did not in fact blank the material that I thought you had. Sorry about that. ~CS 03:51, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Van Helsing's wife

"Van Helsing's wife went insane after their son's death, but as a devout Catholic, he refuses to divorce her." Where exactly in the novel does it mention this? I could only find this reference to Van Helsing's wife from Chapter XIII, Dr Seward's Diary in which Van Helsing says "...my poor wife dead to me...". I took this statement to mean that his wife was dead. Please correct me if I am wrong. Count de Ville 02:08, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

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a little help

could somebody help me with inserting this Image in the infobox i dont see the right slot

"God im Himmel" is German?

Well OK, "God im Himmel" isn't proper Dutch. But it's not proper German either! The German word for "God" is "Gott". —Gabbe 19:53, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Its actually "Gott in Himmel!" in the original found on http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext95/dracu13.txt Sitethief 12:50, 15 July 2006 (UTC)(update: file is gone)

It is good to take aware that this is written in 1897 (it can that the writer is not well known about the small difference in Dutch & German in that time, still now sometimes people think I speak German instead of Dutch) and some aspects of the character are inspired by the 15th century Romanian general and Wallachian Prince Vlad III the Impaler, who was also known as "Dracula". It is good to take aware that in that time the Dutch Language was different then the Nowday's and the 1897th from the 15th Century language used. It was still much closer to German, even more in 15th Century. Dutch from 15th "Erlosen sal hi in vrede siele mine van dien die genaken mi, want onder menegen hi was met mi". It's also called Diets, what is in very big connection to German(y), what was spoken in Netherlands & Germany. In Netherlands we don't say Erlosen anymore, but in Germany they still do. We say now Verlossen. A Dutchman.

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Redirect

Why does Van Helsing redirect to hear? Shouldn't Van Helsing be the disambiguation page since this article is Abraham Van Helsing, the Jackman character is Gabriel Van Helsing, the film is Van Helsing (film), etc. Emperor001 (talk) 18:25, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree there should be a disambiguation page. I was looking for the movie and ended up here. I don't know how to make a disambiguation page exactly though, so can anyone else do it? Podex (talk) 22:20, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Character inspirations

While both Max Muller and Thornley Stoker are backed up by the notes there's no evidence or citation to back up Robert Roosevelt or Gerard van Swieten as being an inspiration for the character. Should these two be removed from the entry. AlucardKarnstein

The article currently claims Abraham Van Helsing is 'a non-fictional character'. This should be referenced, since to my knowledge, the only notable Abraham Van Helsing is the fictional character in Dracula (1897), who has spawned a host of equally fictional imitations.

The 1872 novella Carmilla provides two sources of Stoker's inspiration, Dr Martin Hesselius (note the similar name), the author of a series of papers on 'metaphysical medicine' (see the short story 'Green Tea' from In a Glass Darkly) and the vampire expert Baron Vordenburg.

Further, I note some confusion in the article over the name 'Westenra'. In the novel it's always written like that, and never 'Westernra' as in this article.

Fourcultures (talk) 04:45, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Renfield

Why is Renfield considered an enemy in the infobox? I cannot recall that Van Helsing wanted to harm him in any way. He is just interested in the clues he can provide about Dracula. I propose to remove it from there. Mpaa (talk) 09:49, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Dacre Stoker's book

In many of the Dracula related pages their is considerable and unbalanced attention given to the Ian Holt/Dacre Stoker novel "Dracula The Undead" moreso than given to any other of the innumerable novels featuring the Count and company. This is probably due to the novel's (spurious) hype as the "official sequel." I've edited down or removed lengthy descriptions of that book's plot. BoosterBronze (talk) 18:24, 16 March 2012 (UTC)