Talk:Depleted uranium

The scientific approach

The initial supposition is not true. The maker of this statement should make it possible to contact them so that it can be discussed further. DUSTory dash owner at yahoo groups dot com. The Iraqi report did not show an "increase" in birth defects in Fallujah. The tanks that fought at Fallujah had no room useless ammunition. The DU penetrator sabot round (it is not a shell - shells are hollow, contain explosive, and explode - DU penetrators are solid metal rods fired at high velocity and do not explode). DU was not only useless because it could not destroy walls or barricades, sabot ammunition is dangerous to infanty on the sides of the tank out to one kilometer. All of the tanks that fought in Fallujah had to reload ammunition and they primarily used High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) rounds since those did blow large holes in walls and barricades. These false claims about Fallujah should be looked at as confirmation that the claims about Basrah from the Gulf War were also false because the same claims have been made about Fallujah (just because there were major battles there) as there were about Basrah. Write me, I will reply.~~

We have to accept that birth defects are high in Fallujah. There is controversy over whether DU weapons were used. It seems that the Abrams tank was present, and that carries DU shells, so it is possible that they were fired. The controversy can be settled by a detailed radio/chemical survey, since the clean-up that is alleged to have taken place (see below) will not have been 100% effective.Doc Richard (talk) 18:33, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

No word yet of detailed radio/chemical survey? --Timeshifter (talk) 10:58, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Here is a recent article quote (emphasis added):

On the reports of an increase in cancers and birth defects in Fallujah, he noted that while civil society had suggested a link between them and exposure to depleted uranium, UN agencies such as IAEA, WHO and UNEP have all claimed that it is impossible to draw definitive conclusions. However he pointed out that it is important that all three organisations urge caution over the potential for unforeseen consequences to the use of the weapons. UNEP in particular has noted that there is uncertainty over the possible effects of DU in groundwater. He hoped that a new WHO study may add extra information to the debate.

It is from this article: "Norwegian Foreign Minister makes statement on depleted uranium." 9 December 2010. By ICBUW.

Any info on the WHO study? --Timeshifter (talk) 18:36, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Still in process I believe, they are also due to publish an updated health review of DU at some juncture, hopefully this one will fully reference all the studies into its toxicity, something missing from previous statements. ICBUW (talk) 13:43, 10 January 2011 (UTC)ICBUW

This is postured as "scientific approach" - we do not have to accept that birth defects are high in Fallujah - we just have to say that such a claim has been made and that it has been documented by photos and videos. None of the photos or videos really show what possibly caused the birth defects and no mention is made of any possibility of close intermarriage that is common in Iraq. Any genuine expert who has been asked about this, including Iraqis who have not got political reasons to make their claims, say that this plus nutrition and quality of health care are the most likely reasons for any alleged "spike in birth defects". The M1A1 tank was used in small numbers during the two 2004 battles of Fallujah. Those tanks were not armed with depleted uranium armor piercing penetrators because those rounds are ineffective against dug in and barricaded insurgents fighting house by house and block by block. DU is effective only against other tanks and all it does is punch small holes in anything else. The tank's primary ordnance was the high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) round because it is effective against buildings, bunkers, trucks and cars, etc, in addition to somewhat effective against a tank. Richard Lowry extensively researched the battles of Fallujah for his book. He interviewed a large number of participants and he read numerous reports and he explicity asked a number of the interviewees about depleted uranium. He found that DU was not used in Fallujah. The heavy emphasis on DU in Fallujah thus should make people ask how much of the previous claims about DU's supposed effects by Saddam Hussein's propagandists were correct either. There is ample scientific evidence that the propaganda was propaganda and not fact, but that seems to be being ignored by posters such as Doc Richard who posits that he is discussing a "scientific approach" - I would like to know what happened to my prior comment. I do not know that much about how to edit Wikipedia - I only know that this particular article and even its talk page are dominated by what I have come to call during the course of my six years of research as the anti-depleted uranium crusade. They have no intention of letting fact stand on these pages and that defeats the purpose of the Wikipedia.

Roger DUStory-owner@yahoogroups.com75.101.83.227 (talk) 13:51, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Your other comment was moved to the bottom of the next section. Please register a user name. --Timeshifter (talk) 18:12, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

DU was not used in Fallujah. There was very intense house to house fighting and tanks were heavily used but they did not use DU because they had no room to carry something that they would never fire. They would never fire a DU sabot round for two reasons; first, there were no enemy tanks and no expectation of meeting an enemy tank and second; firing a DU sabot round in close in fighting presented a danger to the infantry soldiers who were less than a kilometer down range from the tank's gun. You can read an excellent paper by a Marine Tank Company Commander who was there at http://www.2ndbn5thmar.com/tank/tirefs/bodischemail.pdf

"Ammo/Weapons: MPAT-OR was not really used too much during clearing operations as it tended to make a smaller breach and would often penetrate through several buildings. In this environment where friendly units are everywhere, geometry of fires often determine round selection. Although my 3rd Plt Cmdr didn't necessarily have this same experience. MPAT-OR in any case was designed to reduce rubble and we tried to use all of this ammo up front at the beginning of the attack, reducing the jersey and hesco barriers that blocked our avenues of approach. HEAT still proved to be better for those types of targets with regular MPAT effective as well. Remember the word about the HEAT round needs at least 30m to arm when leaving the guntube? Well many of my tankers due to the nature of the city were forced to engage at distances even closer than that, and for nearly all engagements less than 30m, HEAT still seemed quite effective and proved to have a lot of killing power (combination of the explosive punch and overpressure). Nearly all engagements throughout the operation were below 200m and section volleys were employed when practical to achieve as much shock effect as possible. All battlesights were set for 200m. We thought we might get the APERs round (this would definantly have been useful). This round has over 1000 tungsten steel balls and is designed to take out entire squads of enemy formations with 1 round. It is essentially a 120mm shotgun shell. The amount of ammo we have fired since the operation kicked off is staggering and continues to climb. My company has fired close to 1600 main gun rounds, over 121,000 7.62mm, and over 49,000 caliber 50 rounds. "

He further writes at http://www.2ndbn5thmar.com/tank/tirefs/tismartpack.pdf

"Ammunition: The current selection of main gun ammo consists of 120mm HEAT, MPAT (ground mode), HE-OR-T (XM908 Obstacle Reducing Round), and SABOT. SABOT is an armor-defeating round and less useful in the MOUT environment. HEAT ammunition will open a large hole in reinforced concrete or masonry structures, far larger than MPAT or MPAT-OR (XM908). Both MPAT and MPAT-OR offer great penetration. HEAT ammunition arms at approximately 60 feet from the gun muzzle. It loses most of its effectiveness against urban targets at ranges of less than 60 feet. MPAT and MPAT-OR rounds arm approximately 100 feet from the muzzle end of the gun. Because of the shape and metal components of the projectiles, however, this ammunition remains effective at ranges of less than 100 feet. Sabot petals, including those on MPAT and MPAT-OR, endanger accompanying dismounted infantry. They create a hazard area extending 70 meters on either side of the gun-target line out to a range of 1 kilometer."

HEAT - High Explosive Anti-Tank - this was his preferred round even though it required a minimum of 30 meters to properly arm the explosive war head MPAT-OR - Multi-Purpose Anti-Tank Obstacle Reducing

Each of the types of 120mm rounds fired by the M1A1 Abrams Tank main gun is discussed extensively here http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/weapon/M256.html

The sabot armor piercing rounds are the ones with DU in them - you can see that they are only effective against tanks. When you are not facing tanks, you do not even load up your tanks with DU because then you run out of the HEAT ammunition that you need.

We do not have to accept that birth defects are high. We have to accept that claims have been made that birth defects are high and that some of these children have been paraded before TV cameras. No information has been provided that supports the conclusion that there are large numbers of birth defects and no information has been provided regarding other possible causes such as close intermarriage, nutrition and stress.208.106.32.139 (talk) 03:18, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

See section below about A-10 Warthogs used in Fallujah. --Timeshifter (talk) 18:28, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Huge rise in birth defects and early life cancers in Falluja

I don't have the time to read enough of the relevant articles, and to integrate the info well into the Wikipedia article. So I thought I'd do a little bit of referencing and summarizing now, and maybe others can help out further. --Timeshifter (talk) 06:11, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DEPLETED URANIUM - THIS POSTING HAS GONE FROM QUESTIONABLY NEUTRAL TO PURELY ACTIVIST - DEPLETED URANIUM WAS NOT USED IN FALLUJAH - QUITE SIMPLY, THERE WERE NO ENEMY TANKS IN EITHER OF THE TWO 2004 BATTLES AND THERE WERE NO TANK BATTLES IN 2003 - DU IS ONLY USED AGAINST TANKS. IT IS PRETTY MUCH USELESS AGAINST ALL OTHER TYPES OF TARGETS. ONE MARINE TANKER WHO I CORRESPONDED WITH SAID THAT HE HAD NEVER FIRED A SABOT ROUND (THE REAL TERM FOR THE DU PENETRATOR ROUND) IN ANY OF HIS FOUR TOURS IN IRAQ. THE MAIN PAGE HAS A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF FALSE INFORMATION AND THIS ENTIRE SUBJECT SHOULD BE DELETED FROM WIKIPEDIA IF IT IS NOT GOING TO BE BASED ON OBJECTIVE SCIENCE AND CONTROLLED BY ACTIVSTS SUCH AS MEMBERS OF THE FALSELY NAMED INTERNATIONAL COALITION TO BAN URANIUM WEAPONS (ICBUW) THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "URANIUM WEAPON". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.101.83.227 (talk) 09:09, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Wasn't the vast majority of DU ordnance fired in 1991 and 2003 in the form of 30mm rounds from Bradleys and Apaches, with less than a few hundred tank sabots in both years? Dan Fahey published a total of all the different types of ordnance, and 30mm rounds were definetly on top. 208.54.14.26 (talk) 01:36, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

There is no need to shout, and it is frowned upon on Wikipedia talk pages. See WP:TALK. --Timeshifter (talk) 16:56, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Huge rise in birth defects in Falluja. By Martin Chulov in Falluja. 13 November 2009. The Guardian.

Doctors in Iraq's war-ravaged enclave of Falluja are dealing with up to 15 times as many chronic deformities in infants, compared to a year ago, and a spike in early life cancers that may be linked to toxic materials left over from the fighting. The extraordinary rise in birth defects has crystallised over recent months as specialists working in Falluja's over-stretched health system have started compiling detailed clinical records of all babies born.

Deformed babies in Fallujah / Iraq Letter to the United Nations. 14 October, 2009. U.N. Observer and International Report. The article was written by:

• Dr Nawal Majeed Al-Sammarai (Iraq Minister of Women's Affairs 2006-2009).
• Dr. David Halpin FRCS (Orthopaedic and Trauma Surgeon).
• Malak Hamdan M. Eng in Chemical and Bioprocess Engineering.
• Dr Chris Burns-Cox MD FRCP.
• Dr. Haithem Alshaibani (Environmental Sciences).
• Yasmin Alibhai-Brown (Author and Journalist).
• Nicholas Wood MA, RIBA, FRGS.

The article was addressed to Dr. Ali Abdussalam Treki, who is the President of the Sixty-fourth Session of the United Nations General Assembly.

In September 2009, Fallujah General Hospital had 170 new born babies, 24% of whom were dead within the first seven days, a staggering 75% of the dead babies were classified as deformed. This can be compared with data from the month of August in 2002 where there were 530 new born babies of whom six were dead within the first seven days and only one birth defect was reported.

More info:

• http://www.veteranstoday.com/?s=falluja+uranium
• http://www.google.com/search?q=falluja+birth+defects
• http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=falluja+birth+defects
• http://news.google.com/news?q=falluja+birth+defects
• http://books.google.com/books?q=falluja+birth+defects

--Timeshifter (talk) 06:11, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Here is a working link to the above-mentioned article "Deformed babies in Fallujah / Iraq Letter to the United Nations":

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=58926

Here is an article discussing it: Toxic munitions 'may be cause' of baby deaths and deformities in Fallujah. 15 November 2009. By David Randall. The Independent. --Timeshifter (talk) 00:00, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Sadly, "No studies that have evaluated birth outcomes and birth defects among Gulf War veterans and their children have assessed whether there is any connection between reproductive outcomes and uranium exposure in the Gulf War." -- p. 96 (PDF p. 105) of this November, 2008 U.S. Veterans Administration report. 99.56.138.51 (talk) 17:51, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. 2 different wars. 2 different pools of people. The mostly-male U.S. combat soldiers of the Gulf War. Versus another war and the female residents of Falluja and their children. Reproductive outcomes and uranium exposure are more likely to show correlations in the second war. Because of the direct effects of radiation on Falluja females, their germ cells, their fetuses, and their infants. --Timeshifter (talk) 06:54, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

(unindent) A BBC article I heard on the radio today:

Birth defects 'have risen since US Falluja operation'. By John Simpson, BBC World Affairs Editor. 4 March 2010. BBC News.

A BBC investigation in Iraq has confirmed a disturbingly high number of birth defects among children in the town of Fallujah. ... I was told they were scared to speak because the Iraqi government did not want to create trouble for the Americans. The official line is that Falluja has only two or three cases of birth defects a year more than normal. But, in the children's ward, I spoke to a paediatrician who told me he saw as many as two or three cases a day, mainly cardiac defects. That would mean that this medium-sized town has some 1,000 cases of birth defects a year. Every doctor, and every parent I spoke to there, believed the problem was the highly sophisticated weapons the US troops used against Falluja six years ago. The rubble from the damaged buildings was bulldozed into the river - and people in Falluja have got their drinking water from there ever since. I went to a house where all three young children were suffering from paralysis or brain damage. A man who heard I was there brought his daughter to show me - she had six fingers on each hand, and six toes on each foot, and suffered from several serious diseases.

--Timeshifter (talk) 06:45, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I am not seeing sources that link the birth defects in Falluja to a documented DU contamination problem. The US ammunition with high DU content was not to my knowledge commonly used in the Falluja battles. If there are DU contamination reports for that area with documented elevated uranium levels that would tie it all together, however.

The reports allege such contamination, but aren't saying specifically what elevated uranium levels were found where.

This testing is easy and straightforwards, and necessary to properly ascribe what problems happen to what people. There are a wide variety of toxins released in warfare, depending on what's fired and what burns and so forth. Allegations here of DU contamination related health effects need to include credible sources that DU is present in the area the health effects are being noted.

That there are health problems is evident from the reports, but it has to be DU related to include it here.

Thanks. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 03:48, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't have much time to invest in this. It seems that scientific epidemiological investigation and reporting is needed. My impression from minimal study is that it is being blocked. It would be simple enough to run a lot of tests of the soil, dust, air, and water sources in many locations in the area to determine the various contaminants. If some reliable sources could be found concerning weaponry and ammunition used, that could be cited. Soldier testimonies, etc.. Falluja was the scene of very intense fighting multiple times. I have no doubt everything was thrown at it. I think some of the mainstream media is only now getting pressured enough to investigate. --Timeshifter (talk) 04:47, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

"Everything being thrown at it" is not useful - There were no Iraqi insurgent tanks to shoot long-rod 120mm tank gun DU rounds at (though, rarely, those are used against bunkers and so forth, and tanks were part of the fighting at times). And I don't think US Air Force A-10 aircraft were used for close air support, with their DU containing 30mm cannon rounds.

This is not a claim that it wasn't used there at all. But the type of fighting was not the type of fighting you would expect DU contamination from, and the weapons largely in use were not the types you'd expect DU contamination from.

The Iraqis there think they have DU health effects, but what's come out / been presented is health effects, not health effects + confirmed uranium in the environment. They believe what they're seeing, and medical statistics seem suspicious that there's a cluster of something, but them believing it to be DU and it actually being DU versus some other unrelated toxin is a very different story.

Anyone in the press, or any doctor or resident there, could send environmental samples off to independent labs for analysis and confirmation or refutation of high uranium levels. Nobody has reported having done so in reports I have seen. A belief that DU is present is not actual verifyable fact that it is.

If it is present, test results will show that, and it would then be entirely on topic here... Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 05:13, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree with your approach, but I disagree with your suspicions about whether DU rounds were used, and how much. I have read and seen enough about DU to know that it is used much more than most people realize, and in many more weapon systems than people realize. Also, most people don't understand just how big a radius of DU dust is created when a DU round disintegrates against a target. I could go on, but I am just saying that it needs further investigation. This is not true: "Anyone in the press, or any doctor or resident there, could send environmental samples off to independent labs for analysis and confirmation or refutation of high uranium levels." Nothing is that simple in Iraq. I have spent years reading and sourcing hundreds of articles while helping editing Iraq War casualties, etc.. The amount of coverup, censorship, death squads, power plays, etc. is unbelievable unless one delves very deep into it. It will take years to fully expose everything. See also the Project Censored number 1 story for 2009: Over One Million Iraqi Deaths Caused by US Occupation. I agree with their conclusions. --Timeshifter (talk) 05:31, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

(unindent) Here are a couple more articles about Fallujah:

• Mabinogogiblog: We can assume until proved otherwise that Fallujah birth defects are due to DU. March 04, 2010. By Richard Lawson.

Having seen what appeared to be a depleted uranium (DU) missile fired at a building in Fallujah on CNN during the first week of the fighting, AFP asked the Pentagon if DU weapons are being used in Fallujah. "Yes," Lt. Col. Joe Yoswa said, "DU is a standard round on the M-1 Abrams tank." Source. That quote again: Christian Bollyn of the American Free Press , Washington D.C asked Lt.Col. Joe Yoswa if the US was using Depleted Uranium in Fallujah and received the reply that "DU is the standard round on the M-1 Abraham Tanks" which have been used in Fallujah. source

--Timeshifter (talk) 13:24, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Per Joe Yoswa, the quote is taken out of context. The interview had nothing to do with Fallujah. Christopher Bollyn's American Free Press is a Neo Nazi front and all of Bollyn's writings should be read with that context in mind. See http://www.chairmanofnordwave.blogspot.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.101.83.227 (talk • contribs) 09:29, 30 June 2010

75.101.83.227. I noticed that you removed some medical sources for info on DU health effects from the article. Such as:

Hindin, R. et al. (2005) "Teratogenicity of depleted uranium aerosols: A review from an epidemiological perspective," Environmental Health, vol. 4, pp. 17. --Timeshifter (talk) 15:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

(unindent) Mabinogogiblog: We can assume until proved otherwise that Fallujah birth defects are due to DU. March 04, 2010. By Richard Lawson.

ICBUW is investigating the possible use of uranium weapons during the attacks on Fallujah. Currently it seems that Abrams tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles were deployed during both battles. Both vehicles carry armour piercing rounds containing uranium and high explosive rounds which do not. However the fact that they were not facing armoured targets does not mean that only high explosive rounds were used. In fact, there are indications that armour piercing ammunition may be more effective against individuals fighting behind cover in urban areas. While is not known how widespread the use of uranium weapons was during the fighting, it seems likely that it was used to some extent. Source

US Troops Covering Up Chem Weapons In Fallujah? By Dahr Jamail. Jan 19, 2005. This article talks about how the military used bulldozers to clear and remove the rubble and soil from certain areas of heavy fighting, but not others. The article does not say where the rubble and soil was put. The BBC article linked higher up has this: "The rubble from the damaged buildings was bulldozed into the river - and people in Falluja have got their drinking water from there ever since."

In addition, many of his friends have told him that the military brought in water tanker trucks to power blast the streets, although he hadn't seen this himself. ... Again, this is reflective of stories I've been told by several refugees from Fallujah.

Just last December, a 35 year-old merchant from Fallujah, Abu Hammad, told me what he'd experienced when he was still in the city during the siege. "The American warplanes came continuously through the night and bombed everywhere in Fallujah! It did not stop even for a moment!

The new ‘forgotten’ war. Mar 18, 2010. Aljazeera Magazine. By Dahr Jamail.

Ghazi reported that in Fallujah, which bore the brunt of two massive U.S. military operations in 2004, as many as 25 percent of newborn infants have serious physical abnormalities. Cancer rates in Babil, an area south of Baghdad, have risen from 500 cases in 2004 to more than 9,000 in 2009. Dr. Jawad al-Ali, the director of the Oncology Center in Basra, told said that there were 1,885 cases of cancer in all of 2005; between 1,250 and 1,500 patients visit his center every month now.

--Timeshifter (talk) 13:24, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

FWiW, Dahr Jamail is a known Islamic sympathizer who is currently working for a far-left nonprofit advocacy group, so any statements made by him or attributed to him should be taken with a BIG grain of salt. 67.170.215.166 (talk) 00:33, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

People can decide for themselves about Dr. Jawad al-Ali, the director of the Oncology Center in Basra, and the reporter Dahr Jamail who reports for various media organizations such as Aljazeera Magazine. People can also make up their own minds about Truthout. Wikipedia just reports the info and the sources. --Timeshifter (talk) 16:51, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

WHO report on Iraqi birth defects

As regards the WHO/Iraqi MoH study into rates of congenital birth defects in Iraq, the official line is that the report is yet to be finalised, however a video package from BBC World appeared to pre-empt the announcement last week. The reporter interviewed MoH researchers who said that the study would find a link between increased rates of birth defects and areas subject to heavy fighting. We posted a summary here the BBC package is available here, with the study discussed halfway through. ICBUW (talk) 10:25, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

See: World Health Organization and Iraq Ministry of Health.

What's delaying the WHO report on Iraqi birth defects?. June 6, 2013. Al Jazeera English. By Dr Mozhgan Savabieasfahani, a native of Iran, and an environmental toxicologist based in Michigan. She is the author of over two dozen peer reviewed articles and the book, Pollution and Reproductive Damage (DVM 2009). From the article:

During the same BBC documentary, called "Born under a bad sign", two other Ministry of Health researchers discussed the unpublished study. They confirmed that that cancers and birth defects constitute a major crisis for the next generation of Iraqi children. They specifically confirmed simultaneous increases in cancers and congenital anomalies in three governorates - Nineveh, Anbar and Najaf - linking those increases to munitions used during the war. ... One possible answer was suggested on May 26 by the Guardian. It reported the recent comments of Hans von Sponeck, the former assistant secretary general of the United Nations: "The US government sought to prevent WHO from surveying areas in southern Iraq where depleted uranium had been used and caused serious health and environmental dangers."

--Timeshifter (talk) 14:58, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

More news on the WHO report:

• WHO’s Iraq Birth Defect Study Omits Causation. By Sudeshna Chowdhury. 17 July 2013. Inter Press Service.
• The WHO must release report on Iraqi birth defects now. By Mozhgan Savabieasfahani. 11 Aug 2013. Al Jazeera English. --Timeshifter (talk) 21:51, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Level of destruction in Fallujah

Google News searches:

• http://news.google.com/news/search?q=falluja+births - last few weeks.
• http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=falluja+births - a few archived articles over years.

• 'My baby was blind. She couldn't eat or speak. I mourn for her' – families' heartache over Falluja birth defects. By Martin Chulov in Falluja. 13 November 2009 The Guardian.

One of few people she can turn to is Dr Bassem Allah, the senior obstetrician who is chief custodian of Falluja's newborns. During medical school he had to search Iraq for case studies of an infant with a birth defect. "It was almost impossible during the 80s," he says. "Now, every day in my clinic or elsewhere in the hospital, there are large numbers of congenital abnormalities or cases of chronic tumours." ... "There is not yet any science to tell us why. No one has come here to take soil samples, or make examinations. I think the Iraqi government does not want it proven that the Americans used forbidden weapons here. If there is scientific proof that the war was responsible for so many deformities, there will likely be problems for officials here." ... The US claimed to have killed 2,000 people, mainly insurgents, but produced no figures for civilians. Western media were kept out but accounts emerged of indiscriminate killing. Iraqi medical officials and NGOs put the civilian toll at up to 6,000. Falluja's compensation commissioner said 36,000 out of 50,000 homes were destroyed, with 60 schools and 65 mosques and shrines. At least 200,000 civilians became refugees.

That's a lot of house, school, mosque, and shrine rubble. And according to the articles much of it was put into the river where the drinking water comes from. Along with much of the ammo and specialized munitions that was pulverized into dust, and ended up mixed in with the rubble. --Timeshifter (talk) 21:05, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

This article summarizes the history of Fallujah during the Iraq War, and the level of destruction:

• Letter from America: Remembering FALLUJAH and NATO War Crimes. June 3, 2012. By Dr. Habib Siddiqui. World Institute for Asian Studies. Article quotes below (emphasis added).

The assault in Fallujah, called Operation Phantom Fury - the bloodiest battle involving American troops since the Vietnam War (1968), was preceded by eight weeks of aerial bombardment. ... On November 8 [2004], 10,000 U.S. troops, equipped with artillery and tanks, supported from the air by bombers and helicopter gunships, blasted their way into the city. By the end of operations, the ‘City of the Mosques’ and shrines lay in ruins. Fallujah's compensation commissioner reported that 36,000 of the city's 50,000 homes were destroyed, along with 60 schools and 65 mosques and shrines. Even after eight years, there is hardly a building that does not have bullet scars on its structure. ... The few studies that have been done suggest that there is “genetic damage” within the population, and the evidence suggests ionizing radiation exposure as the cause. This has led some to say that the health crisis in Fallujah is worse than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki after the atomic bombs. So many children in Fallujah are now being born horribly deformed or mentally retarded that many women are afraid to try to have families. The U.S. occupation has had horrible effects on the Iraqi population, but Fallujah has suffered more than any other Iraqi city. Fallujah is to the Occupation of Iraq, what My Lai was to the Vietnam War, and what Hiroshima and Nagasaki were to World War II.” ... Parents didn’t want to talk. "Families bury their newborn babies after they die without telling anyone," said hospital spokesman Nadim al-Hadidi. "It’s all too shameful for them… We recorded 672 cases in [the month of] January [alone] but we know there were many more," said Hadidi. Facing a frozen image of a child born without limbs, parents’ feelings usually range between shame and guilt. "They think it’s their fault, that there’s something wrong with them. And it doesn’t help at all when some elder tells them it’s been ‘God’s punishment’," said Hadidi. According to a study released by the Switzerland-based International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health in July 2010, "the increases in cancer, leukemia and infant mortality and perturbations of the normal human population birth sex ratio in Fallujah are significantly greater than those reported for the survivors of the A-Bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945." Similarly, Dr Chris Busby, author of “Cancer, Infant Mortality and Birth-Sex Ratio in Fallujah, Iraq 2005-2006,” said, “We found that the infant mortality rates compared with Egypt and Jordan were about four or five times higher, and about ten times higher if you taker countries like Kuwait, where there is good health care.”

--Timeshifter (talk) 08:36, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Section break

Here is an article from March 4, 2010: "Fallujah birth defects blamed on US weapons". By Daniel Tencer. Raw Story.

The Pentagon admitted in 2005 that it had used white phosphorous munitions during the battle, as well as depleted uranium shells, which contain radioactive material. BBC world affairs editor John Simpson said the Fallujah hospital's maternity ward is "absolutely packed" with babies suffering from congenital heart defects. He says he was shown a picture of a three-headed baby, and saw children suffering from paralysis and brain damage. Researcher Malik Hamdan told the BBC he had seen footage of "babies born with an eye in the middle of the forehead, the nose on the forehead."

There are more recent news articles too:

• http://news.google.com/news?q=falluja+birth+defects

• CNN video. May 11, 2010. Birth defects on the rise in Falluja. By Mohammed Jamjoom. World Health Organization to investigate.

• The Cult of Nuclearists. By Geoff Kelly & Louis Ricciuti. May 13, 2010. The Palestine Telegraph. Originally, May 12, 2010, in ArtVoice of Buffalo, New York. See:

http://artvoice.com/issues/v9n19/cult_of_nuclearists

An example that he provides in the book: Imagine you are walking through Fallujah, which was bombarded with depleted uranium armaments, on a windy day. (Or, for that matter, imagine you are driving down Buffalo Avenue this summer with the car windows open, as concrete saws, jackhammers, and backhoes send plumes of dust into the air.) You breathe in a particle of uranium, which lodges in your lung. As each atom decays, the uranium emits alpha particles that pack millions of electron volts—that’s what makes a Geiger counter click—more than enough to damage or break a strand of DNA or RNA. These alpha particles can only travel about six cell diameters, so a tremendous amount of potentially destructive energy is concentrated in a very small area of the lung. But the radiation protection agencies consider the energy emitted by that particle as a dose to the entire lung—when and if internal does are considered at all. That is to say, they average out that tremendous burst of energy over a much larger mass of tissue, thus diluting its apparent impact—at least on paper. “They’re creating a mathematical fiction by saying that that’s a lung dose,” Zimmerman says. “But it’s not a lung dose; it’s a dose to individual cells. Cancer is known to start from the aberration in an individual cell. It has nothing to do with a lung dose. You have to look at the individual cell and the cellular response.”

--Timeshifter (talk) 13:27, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

On the issue of Fallujah, discussions that we have had with marines who served in the battles indicate that they just fired everything they had, including DU as it forms part of the standard combat load of Abrams and Bradleys. However as these are anecdotal we are waiting for a FoI request to be published. DU munitions were originally cleared for use on the premise that they were to be used for piercing armour, however the experience of the Balkans and Iraq rather suggests that they are being employed against a wider range of targets. Civilian infrastructure such as broadcast equipment and administrative buildings have all been targeted in recent conflicts. The WHO has begun an investigation into the rise in birth defects in Fallujah, no idea when it will be completed though. ICBUW (talk) 09:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Do you have some links for the info from the marines? Also, more links for the impending or ongoing WHO imvestigation. Also, for the Balkans and other places. --Timeshifter (talk) 10:55, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Will post the FoI data up when we get it...if we get it - been a long time coming thus far... Sky News on the WHO study: Sky News our full report on the Balkans will be published later this year. On the non-armoured targets front, one example in Serbia is Pljackovica mountain near Vranje where a communications tower was attacked by an A10 UNEP report on DU in Serbia & Montenegro and in Iraq in 2003 this film "The Unknown Terror of DU" shows an A10 strafing a government ministry: Unknown Terror of DU there's some more background on our current thinking, particularly over user transparency and precaution here: ICBUW discussion paper ICBUW (talk) 10:15, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I found this info on the video:

A DVD documentary, Unknown Terror of DU: Iraqi Children Now, by N.Toyoda and H.Shimizu (Japanese and English; 2005).

From: http://www.bandepleteduranium.org/en/i/70.html

Chernobyl disaster page is informative. Here is some relevant info from it (emphasis added):

Chernobyl's Exclusion Zone

In his book Disasters: Wasted Lives, Valuable Lessons, economist and crisis consultant Randall Bell writes after his research at Chernobyl:

There is a 17-mile (sic) Exclusion Zone around Chernobyl where officially nobody is allowed to live, but people do. These "resettlers" are elderly people who lived in the region prior to the disaster. Today there are approximately 10,000 people between the ages of 60 and 90 living within the Zone around Chernobyl. Younger families are allowed to visit, but only for brief periods of time.

Eventually the land could be utilized for some sort of industrial purpose that would involve concrete sites. But estimates range from 60 – 200 years before this would be allowed. Farming or any other type of agricultural industry would be dangerous and completely inappropriate for at least 200 years. It will be at least two centuries before there is any chance the situation can change within the 1.5-mile Exclusion Zone. As for the #4 reactor where the meltdown occurred, we estimate it will be 20,000 years before the real estate will be fully safe.

Fallujah allows young families and children to live in an untested toxic environment. I have not yet heard of any tests of the water supplies, dirt, or dust for DU or other toxic contaminants. See also:

Hindin, R. et al. (2005) "Teratogenicity of depleted uranium aerosols: A review from an epidemiological perspective," Environmental Health, vol. 4, pp. 17. It states (emphasis added):

"Conclusion. In aggregate the human epidemiological evidence is consistent with increased risk of birth defects in offspring of persons exposed to DU."

Are there any links to interviews with Fallujah soldiers stating that DU rounds were used? --Timeshifter (talk) 16:04, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Surveys

Martin Chulov of the Guardian "Iraq littered with high levels of nuclear and dioxin contamination, study finds”, The Guardian, 22 January 2010,reports of an official study recently completed by the Iraq Ministries of Health, Environment and Science that finds that 42 sites across Iraq are heavily contaminated with high levels of radiation and dioxins. The study finds that these sites include Fallujah, Basra and Najaf. Has anyone copies of the study?

Also read Al-Azzawi, S., "Depleted Uranium Radioactive Contamination in Iraq: An Overview", Mamoun University for Science and Technology, which is available on WWW. The overview shows that extensive research has been undertaken by Iraqi academic scientists and medical professionals on depleted uranium throughout Iraq. The review suggests that the ongoing sanctions have had a significant bearing on international publication of the research undertaken in Iraq. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.152.61.98 (talk • contribs) 13:57, 9 September 2010

Toxic legacy of US assault on Fallujah 'worse than Hiroshima'. By Patrick Cockburn. 24 July 2010. The Independent. Selected excerpts:

The survey was carried out by a team of 11 researchers in January and February this year [2010] who visited 711 houses in Fallujah. A questionnaire was filled in by householders giving details of cancers, birth outcomes and infant mortality. Hitherto the Iraqi government has been loath to respond to complaints from civilians about damage to their health during military operations.

The study, entitled "Cancer, Infant Mortality and Birth Sex-Ratio in Fallujah, Iraq 2005-2009", is by Dr Busby, Malak Hamdan and Entesar Ariabi, and concludes that anecdotal evidence of a sharp rise in cancer and congenital birth defects is correct.

The report says that the types of cancer are "similar to that in the Hiroshima survivors who were exposed to ionising radiation from the bomb and uranium in the fallout". ... The sex-ratio is an indicator of genetic damage that affects boys more than girls. A similar change in the sex-ratio was discovered after Hiroshima.

Here is the survey and report:

• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2922729/

According to various articles access to Fallujah is tightly controlled. --Timeshifter (talk) 10:31, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the FOIA request on the use of DU in Fallujah - nearly 12 months gone now and they claim that no records were kept for first assault, may be some on second but they haven't been able to find any yet and will try more sources...next date is December. In the meantime the UN First Committee has passed a resolution calling on state users to transfer information on DU use to the relevant authorities of affected states upon request see: UN First Committee sends clear message to depleted uranium users over transparency the General Assembly will vote on it at the end of November. ICBUW (talk) 10:11, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Here is a Google image search for Fallujah depleted uranium:

http://www.google.com/images?q=Fallujah+depleted+uranium

The images can be followed back to articles. Some of them may be used as references. --Timeshifter (talk) 18:44, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

"Research links rise in Falluja birth defects and cancers to US assault". By Martin Chulov. 30 December 2010. The Guardian.

In the first half of 2010, the number of monthly cases of serious abnormalities rose to unprecedented levels. In Falluja general hospital, 15% of the 547 babies born in May [2010] had a chronic deformity, such as a neural tune defect – which affects the brain and lower limbs – cardiac, or skeletal abnormalities, or cancers. No other city in Iraq has anywhere near the same levels of reported abnormalities. Falluja sees at least 11 times as many major defects in newborns than world averages, the research has shown.

--Timeshifter (talk) 04:30, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

The recent paper mentioned above adds extra weight to the call for more research into all environmental risk factors in Fallujah. It also indicates that a second paper is in press that will give more detail on the rates of health problems at Fallujah General Hospital, should be helpful. ICBUW (talk) 13:40, 10 January 2011 (UTC)ICBUW

Timeshifter - this article has been mainly written from the ICBUW's viewpoint. They need to keep DU in the public mind. Donations will dry up once people realize that nothing really happened and that DU penetrator munitions have not been used since 2003. Why don't you write to me. I have been researching DU for over six years. I started out querying people like Doug Rokke, Dai Williams, Chris Busby, etc. and I found out that none of them had done any scientific research and that Rokke and Busby were very prone to making unsupportable claims about their own education, experience and knowledge of DU. The ICBUW has always relied upon people like Busby (even though Doug Weir claims otherwise, he always claims Busby's manipulative triumphs like the Fallujah claims as being reasons to support the ICBUW) - Roger DUStory-owner@yahoogroups.com

Depleted Uranium was not used in Fallujah. There were no tank battles in 2003 and no Sunni insurgent/Al Qaeda/foreign fighter tanks to battle in either of the two hard fought battles of 2004. Just because a small number of Abrams Tanks participated in the 2004 Battles of Fallujah does not mean that DU was used. Tanks carry ammunition suitable for the task that they are to perform. These tanks did not expect to encounter any enemy tanks and did not carry DU armor piercing ammunition, let alone fire it. The many claims around the world being made about DU causing birth defects in Fallujah are false. That, however, has not stopped them from being made. The propagandists making them use the fallacy, if there were American tanks, there was DU and if there was DU, there are birth defects. None of that fallacy is true, but it is repeated on an endless multiple times a day basis. The original writer of this also bought into that. Richard S Lowry spent two years researching his book New Dawn: The Battles for Fallujah and I have also corresponded with a Marine tank crewman who said that he never fired a sabot round (the DU round for the M1 is a sabot round)during any of his three tours of Iraq. The crewman also told me that he had never had a sabot round in any of the tanks that he had crewed. That makes a lot of sense, something generally missing in this alleged controversy. DU makes nice small round holes, it does not blow up and it is ineffective against anything other than armor plate so it makes sense to carry other types of ammunition that can be effective against dug in insurgents/Al Quaeda/foreign fighters.

We do not have to accept that birth defects are high in Fallujah. We have to accept that there are some birth defects in Fallujah and that they have been caught on camera. There is no controversy; there is deliberate propaganda that makes false claims. There is no need for a radio/chemical survey (whatever that might be) - all you really need is the load out records for the small number of tanks that served in Fallujah.

Roger - DUStory-owner@yahoogroups.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.101.83.227 (talk) 12:44, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Its not propaganda because if it was we wouldn't be discussing it here, the mere reason it is grabbing our attention is that apart from the BBC and the Guardian reports as well as the medical statistical reports, the probability that brain cancers as well as birth mutations as a result of DU is extremely high. Just because there have been no tests of DU on humans is pretty obvious. No serious government has the moral authority to conduct such tests, yet surprisingly there are those who are not 'activists' would maintain these tests are necessary to establish if any War Crime was committed? Dilemma? Have a guess! Gulf War Syndrome is something that links very well into this as well the statements made by the Ministry of Defence on whether DU was used at the time of the Gulf War 1. Zylog79 (talk) 22:39, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

In spite of Roger's protestations, there will not be conclusive proof either way on Fallujah until a detailed environmental analysis has taken place. Studies done to date have not been methodologically sound enough to deliver what they claim to have found and the US is denying any use there post July 2004. ICBUW (talk) 15:14, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Detailed reference info for the previously discussed survey: Cancer, Infant Mortality and Birth Sex-Ratio in Fallujah, Iraq, 2005–2009, By Chris Busby, Malak Hamdan and Enteser Ariabi, International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health July, 2010, ISSN 1660-4601. Article is here, too. --Timeshifter (talk) 23:44, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

"Roger - DUStory-owner@yahoogroups.com" - This signature for several messages here is for Lieutenant Colonel Roger Helbig, USAF, (retired). For more info on his efforts concerning depleted uranium:

• Roger Helbig and depleted uranium. 1 Feb 2007, and updated 19 August 2010. The Ecologist.

He uses his full name sometimes when also mentioning the DUStory Yahoo Group. For example; see his Twitter account:

• Roger Helbig (Rhotel1) on Twitter.

--Timeshifter (talk) 19:38, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Samples

Have there been any studies been done, or have any samples been taken, to find out how much DU has been found in dust, water, etc. in Fallujah? Also, do you have any links to info on what DU use the US has admitted to concerning Fallujah? --Timeshifter (talk) 19:50, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Not to our knowledge and we've been keeping a close eye on developments. Seems like an oversight but the logistical issues involved are considerable, as is avoiding cross contamination when sampling etc. Iraq at present has only one ICP-MS machine (based in Baghdad) and removal of contaminated soils to other countries is a nightmare - much like work in Iraq full stop. On the US position wrt use of DU in Fallujah - a grudgingly answered FOIA request claimed that no depleted uranium weapons were used in the Iraqi city of Fallujah during Operation Phantom Fury in November and December 2004. However, it has also revealed that no records were kept on the use of the weapons in Fallujah prior to July 2004. ICBUW Fallujah article ICBUW (talk) 08:46, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

A-10 Warthogs were used during the Second Battle of Fallujah in November and December 2004. See the talk section farther down with the quotes from the book about that battle. Did they not use depleted uranium rounds? According to these 2 ICBUW pages (here and here) DU rounds were the majority of rounds used in the A-10 Warthogs. From the January 2010 ICBUW article: "The PGU-14/B [DU round] is standard ammunition for the A-10, usually used in a ratio of 5-1 in concert with the PGU-13/B high explosive round." I believe that it is only recently that they have stopped using DU rounds in the A-10 Warthogs. In Libya: Quote from April 2011 article here: "A US Airforce Spokeswoman has told a Scottish journalist that, as of 2nd April, A-10s fighting in Libya have not been firing DU ammunition. However, she refused to give any assurances about the future use of DU, stating that she didn't want 'to speculate on what may or may not be used in the future'. ... If Kurtz's statement is correct, then this is the first public acknowledgement by the US that A-10s are being loaded with only PGU-13 rounds [not DU], although the practice has previously been identified in photographs of A-10 units in Afghanistan." --Timeshifter (talk) 00:16, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

A-10 Warthogs used their antitank cannons in Fallujah

GAU-8 Avenger is the antitank cannon in the A-10 Warthog aircraft.

House to House: A Soldier's Memoir - Page 74. By David Bellavia, John R. Bruning - 2008 - 347 pages. Quote from page 74 (emphasis added):

"Every weapon available in our arsenal short of nukes is turned on Fallujah. The pre-assault bombardment is unrelenting. Jet after jet drops its bombs and rockets. Warthogs—the big, bruising A-10 Thunderbolt II close-support aircraft -- strafe the main avenues into the city with their 30mm antitank cannon. Fallujah is smothered in bombs, shrouded in smoke. Buildings collapse. Mines detonate. Artillery roars."

An ICBUW article from March 21, 2011: Statement on the potential use of depleted uranium in Libya. Quote from the article (emphasis added):

A10-Thunderbolt. The A-10 fires a mixture of DU-based armour piercing, and non-DU high explosive rounds from a rotary cannon mounted below the cockpit. The A-10 is the platform responsible for most of the DU fired in Iraq in both 1991 and 2003, and all of the DU fired in the Balkans. At present there are no reports that the A-10 has been deployed in the current hostilities, but its cannon was designed for attacking armoured vehicles, so it is a possible contender for future deployment.

--Timeshifter (talk) 20:28, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

September 2011 article. Samples show high uranium levels in Fallujah

"Uranium and other contaminants in hair from the parents of children with congenital anomalies in Fallujah, Iraq". Samira Alaani, Muhammed Tafash, Christopher Busby, Malak Hamdan, and Eleonore Blaurock-Busch. 2011 September 2. Conflict and Health.

Quote from article (emphasis added): "Conclusions. Whilst caution must be exercised about ruling out other possibilities, because none of the elements found in excess are reported to cause congenital diseases and cancer except Uranium, these findings suggest the enriched Uranium exposure is either a primary cause or related to the cause of the congenital anomaly and cancer increases. Questions are thus raised about the characteristics and composition of weapons now being deployed in modern battlefields"

An article discussing the mass spectrometry used: "MS test used in Uranium exposure study". 2011 September 6. Chromatography Today. --Timeshifter (talk) 00:09, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

The article in Conflict and Health says that high levels of a range of heavy metals were found, "In high excess were Ca, Mg, Sr, Al, Bi and Hg." Levels of uranium absorbed by mothers were unexceptional: just three or four times higher than background levels in other parts of the world. This isn't surprising, as higher than usual levels of uranium were found in the local water supplies.

The area is clearly contaminated with heavy metals, but although uranium levels are slightly higher than some other places they aren't high enough to cause the malformations and illnesses noted. This is much more likely to be due to chemical pollution; and the three derelict organo-chemical factories nearby are a likely source. Davy p (talk) 04:21, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

I prefer to believe what the experts say from the article, and not what you believe. --Timeshifter (talk) 09:59, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

The fact of the matter remains that birth defects are very high in Fallujah since the heavy use of U-238 weapons in this area. There are other hot areas within Iraq. American military personnel are warned about the dangers in and about destroyed vehicles and must wear proper garments when inspecting these hot areas. The long report referred to here is very careful to not expose U-238 as much of a problem. However, I will finally trust the military's change of heart in it's being very careful around U-238 which has become a 'puffy dust' which is easily inhaled.

Also, I must refer you to the very expensive cleanup of toxins in Kuwait of which U-238 remains a huge and very expensive problem. The contaminated soil here is being transported to sites in Tennesee and Utah for processing. Kuwait gets a cleanup while Iraq's U-238 problem is considered a very low priority. -- Nebulastardust 20:05 23 Feb 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.72.151.96 (talk) 02:07, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Peer-reviewed journals

The peer-reviewed journal Conflict and Health (see more in the September 2011 section higher up). Conflict and Health | Full text | Uranium and other contaminants in hair from the parents of children with congenital anomalies in Fallujah, Iraq. More info at greenaudit.org and their press release on 17 October 2011.

Detailed reference info for the previously discussed survey (in the survey section higher up): Cancer, Infant Mortality and Birth Sex-Ratio in Fallujah, Iraq, 2005–2009, By Chris Busby, Malak Hamdan and Enteser Ariabi, International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health July, 2010, ISSN 1660-4601. Article is here, too. --Timeshifter (talk) 11:02, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

New secondary literature review with full text. Shelleh, H.H. (2012). "Depleted Uranium: Is it potentially involved in the recent upsurge of malignancies in populations exposed to war dust?" Saudi Medical Journal [1] [2]. 33(5):483-8 PMID 22588807. --Timeshifter (talk) 09:08, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Metal Contamination and the Epidemic of Congenital Birth Defects in Iraqi Cities. [3]. M. Al-Sabbak, S. Sadik Ali, O. Savabi, G. Savabi, S. Dastgiri and M. Savabieasfahani. Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology. [4]. Received: 27 July 2012 / Accepted: 30 August 2012 / Published online: 16 September 2012. Volume 89, Number 5 (2012), 937-944, DOI:10.1007/s00128-012-0817-2.

See Template:Cite doi. More info below via this use of the template: {{cite doi|10.1007/s00128-012-0817-2}}

--Timeshifter (talk) 12:44, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

DU weapons and platforms used in Fallujah

According to User:ICBUW this is "a not exhaustive but relatively complete list of weapons and platforms that utilise DU":

• International Coalition to Ban Uranium Weapons - Weapons and Platforms.

I would like more references citing which ones were used in Fallujah. --Timeshifter (talk) 11:29, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

US military in vitro and in vivo research compendiums

These may be of interest: in vitro studies: http://www.bandepleteduranium.org/en/a/436.html in vivo studies: http://www.bandepleteduranium.org/en/a/437.html presentations by Alexandra Miller at the US Armed Forces Radiobiology Research Institute (AFRRI). Good reviews of the state of research in Nov 2010.ICBUW (talk) 09:59, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

From http://dodreports.com/ada539772 is this:

A Review of Depleted Uranium Biological Effects: In vivo Studies. By: Alexandra C. Miller; November 1, 2010. Publisher: Armed Forces Radiobiology Research Inst Bethesda Md.

Outstanding Questions: * Will health effects of DU develop in the cohort as it grows older? * What are the health effects of concern related to effects of DU embedded fragments on adjacent tissues? * Should even small pieces of DU shrapnel be removed? * Development of in Situ Surveillance Protocol * Objective: To identify and manage (prevent) health effects related to fragment retention * Risk of the development of tumors at fragment sites * Foreign body effects? Medical implants (hip, knee joints, dental implants, etc) - Bullets * Chemical effects? In Situ Imaging Methods for Surveillance of Fragments and Surrounding Tissue * Current using x-ray films to look for changes in the shape and other physical characteristics of the fragments * Exploring other available imaging methods for identifying pre-neoplastic lesions or primary stage tumors. --Timeshifter (talk) 13:12, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

DU and medical treatment in Fallujah

American weapons blamed for health problems at hospital in Fallujah. By Agence France-Presse. August 8, 2012. From the article: "Medics and officials in Fallujah, however, including hospital director Lawas, have no doubt the defects have been caused by the US forces’ alleged use of depleted uranium rounds in 2004." --Timeshifter (talk) 05:21, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

New secondary literature review with full text

Shelleh, H.H. (2012) "Depleted Uranium: Is it potentially involved in the recent upsurge of malignancies in populations exposed to war dust?" Saudi Medical Journal 33(5):483-8 PMID 22588807. 71.215.95.182 (talk) 05:17, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

This article claims that the children with malformations depicted on photos (taken from public photo sharing websites rather than article authors) have been "affected with radiation", suggesting that DU can cause radiological effects, which is totally bogus. It also has Helen Caldicott as the first reference and uses unprofessional, very emotional language. This is just another junk science-laden political advocacy piece rather than a serious scientific article.

To clear up any doubts, I definitely do not like U.S. foreign policy and I'm not attempting to defend it with the above assessment. --Tweenk (talk) 03:03, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I don't like the language; I don't like Helen Caldicott—such statements are of the variety called ad hominem. They are fallacious, and can—indeed, must be ignored. The completeness of their unacceptability is not reduced even the smallest bit by the statement I definitely do not like U.S. foreign policy. LudicrousTripe (talk) 21:49, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

New DU reports

Hi all, thought these might be of interest. Together with our partners we have published three new reports on DU topics. There will likely be some useful materials for sections of the article. *Precaution in Practice - challenging the acceptability of depleted uranium weapons: A report for policy-makers and campaigners which judges the acceptability of DU weapons by utilising the structure of common interpretations of the precautionary principle. In doing so it asks whether a precautionary approach should be applied to DU and whether its use could ever be compatible with precautionary values.

• Managing Acceptability: UK policy on depleted uranium: Using declassified material, Managing Acceptability provides a historical review of the methods that the UK government has used in seeking to maintain the public acceptability of DU munitions, having recognised very early on in their development that public opposition to the use of DU in conventional weapons would be significant.
• Hazard Aware - Lessons learned from military field manuals on depleted uranium and how to move forward for civilian protection norms.: Hazard Aware analyses the precautionary measures adopted by militaries to reduce their troops' exposure to DU munitions and asks whether these could form the basis for civilian protection norms.
• Will also update the main page with the results of the fourth UN General Assembly resolution on DU, which passed by 155-27-4 in December 2012.
• In a State of Uncertainty: impact and implications of the use of depleted uranium in Iraq. seeks to document the extent of Iraq's DU problem 10 years after its second use in 2003. Combining fieldwork, interviews with Iraqi officials and military sources, the report documents the extent of DU use in civilian areas and against non-armoured targets, the difficulties faced by the Iraqi authorities in managing contamination and the risks still posed to Iraqi civilians working in the scrap metal trade.
• Incidentally, you might also be interested in a new research project that we have launched http://www.toxicremnantsofwar.info/ which seeks to take a assess a wider range of toxic military substances whose use may result in an environmental and humanitarian legacy.
• A discussion paper from the project Toxic Harm: humanitarian and environmental concerns from military contamination. has just been published, broader in scope than just DU but representing a growing trend in the assessment of conflict toxics. ICBUW (talk) 10:16, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Sanity check

There is loads of talk here about uranium causing radiation related effects. For a quick sanity check Uranium-238 has a half life of 4.5 billion years - this is so long that the radioactivity is minute, certainly being exposed to U238 dust is radiologically irrelevant [ref I will do the sums if anyone asks]. It is a heavy metal and that causes chemical issues but anyone claiming radiological issues with U238 is either ill informed or a scaremonger. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mtpaley (talk • contribs) 00:54, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Pilger

Where is the Wikipedia policy that a world-renowned journalist is not RS? Please do not remove him again unless you have it. LudicrousTripe (talk) 11:05, 26 August 2013 (UTC)