Talk:North Korean famine

Overhaul (August 2010)

This article is outdated, poorly written and poorly referenced. It needs a complete rewrite. I'll add what I can and would suggest contributions from scholars with expertise in the field, or those who can find a better reference than CNN, at the very least. SimplicityDesign (talk) 01:43, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I have attempted to rewrite the 'Background' section with accurate information and respected academic sources. I have added an 'International Response' subsection to cover issues such as the humanitarian aid response. I believe that the current food security situation in the DPRK may be beyond the scope of this article and would recommend that the removal of 'Famine Status' be considered in favour of placing this information elsewhere.

Why is this article included in the 'Fall of Communism' series? I consider this an inappropriate placement with questionable motivation. And why on earth should a picture of Kim Jong Il be added?! SimplicityDesign (talk) 04:02, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

POV issues

This seems to be very biased against North Korea, and reads like a story more than an article. Can someone who knows more help clean it up? (ESkog)^(Talk) 02:48, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

No.

Shultz IV's commentary

Because several editors have pointed out the lack of references and obvious bias in the essay by Shultz IV, I've moved his content here for now. I've replaced the article page with content from North Korea, Kim Jong-il, and Famine articles, to serve as a stub.

Shultz IV, please re-add any part of the below after you add references and subtract the commentary. thanks. Appleby 15:39, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

{{references}} {{NPOV}}

The North Korean famine of the 1990s started when Kim Il-sung, an amateur in the ways of farming, ordered more rice to be grown in the hills in many parts of North Korea. He also ordered for trees to be cut down in order to give more room to grow rice.

Realizations

Farmers and agricultural specialists who knew better realized immediately that the lack of trees and natural vegetation would allow the rainwaters to progress faster towards the streams & rivers, causing them to receive more than they can take downstream, thus allowing them to overflow their banks! This way, floods would occur and the disaster wouldn't only be that, but also famine resulting from drowning the crops.

However, no one would dare challenge the Great Leader! Whoever thought of challenging him feared getting sent to a re-education camp. (Like the Yodok Concentration Camp, for example.) Therefore, they had no choice but to obey his orders.

The beginning of the disaster

Sure enough, the floods came and the famine started to sweep the nation. However, North Korean media was still forced to lionize the leaders and their accomplishments, and was completely disallowed from reporting negative happenings in their own country. Nevertheless, Kim Il-sung eventually found out about it. He realized that the only way he would save the country is through Reunification. He started the process moving, but in the wee hours of July 8, 1994, he got in an animated argument with Kim Jong-il, and suddenly collapsed due to a heart attack. If it hadn't have been for that (i.e. if Kim Il-sung checked up on his health earlier), Korea may have been reunified today, with millions of lives saved.

The "Arduous March"

Unfortunately, Kim Il-sung's death halted the reunification process and so the famine was allowed to take its course. Flooding was engulfing significant portions of the nation, and so the crops were not allowed to grow. Due to their ideology of "self-reliance", they would not buy food from any neighboring countries nor ask for help in the get-go. As a result, 200,000-1.5 million North Koreans are estimated to have died in what they call the "Arduous March". The Northern provinces of North Korea, that is, North Pyongan, Chagang, Yanggang, and North Hamgyong suffered the most. Pyongyang and all provinces to the south of the capital were spared the brunt of the disaster.

The Call for Disaster Relief

Eventually, they did call the world for disaster relief, and so the Red Cross and the World Food Programme arrived to give assistance. At first, a great portion of the donated food and resources were diverted to their military due to their so called "Military First" policy and the fact that giving them more food & resources would help maintain their loyalty better. However, the aid organizations eventually found out and ensured that the donations only went to where they needed to go.

Aftermath

There was still a shortage of food in some places, and the living conditions worsened as well. Thus, some North Koreans fled the country across the border, often across the Yalu and Tumen Rivers to find more food and a better life. Many stayed in China and even stay in hiding to this day. Many others made the trek to Shenyang and Beijing to South Korean diplomatic compounds to request asylum.

The Communist regime of North Korea is said to have lost the Mandate of Heaven. South Koreans agree, as well as many people around the world. North Koreans may agree also, although they are not free to say so.

WHAT

There was no "aftermath", people, because it didn't end. Actually it is potentially worse than ever!

Sometimes Wikipedia is a total joke. Articles about some unimportant people are longer than the fate of millions right now. --84.234.60.154 (talk) 08:21, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

"the North estimates its losses at about 2.5 million to 3 million from 1995 to March 1998" 2.5-3 million what? dollars? acres? people? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.14.143.188 (talk) 22:55, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

THIS SHOULD BE ONE OF HOTTEST EDITED ARTICLES RIGHT NOW

I can't belive it is TOTALLY IGNORED. --84.234.60.154 (talk) 20:41, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

To whoever who would make a real article

Pleace use external links I provided while re-writting this joke of an article. --84.234.60.154 (talk) 22:05, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

It appears you, 84.234.60.154 (talk), are the best editor to improve this article. You are not prevented from doing the text editing and thinking necessary to make the article say what it should. Templates are a form of complaint, not contribution. Just do it. -- Yellowdesk (talk) 02:51, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

This article overlaps partly with Economy of North Korea#Crisis and famine.--Banana (talk) 22:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

No explanation for the term "Arduous March"

I have found no explanation in the article about the meaning of the term "Arduous March". The sentence in Schultz IV' commentary above, "As a result, 200,000-1.5 million North Koreans are estimated to have died in what they call the "Arduous March".", is not very enlightening; why was a famine called a march? --Enaskitis (talk) 09:12, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

I've added an explanation and history of the term. Coinmanj (talk) 09:24, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

External links

The list of external links in the article was just ridiculous. Rather than just delete them I am moving them here for future reference: PC78 (talk) 23:06, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

collapsing --Banana (talk) 22:38, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

march of tribulation

I was redirected from march of tribulation...what does this mean? surely a reason for the redirect? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.122.13.129 (talk) 21:40, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

New sections

In an attempt to shorten the article Economy of North Korea I have moved 2 sections (black market activities and the Public Distribution System) into this article since they deal directly with the famine. The shortened "crisis" section of the Economy article now is more summarized and has a link to this article. Coinmanj (talk) 09:12, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Ongoing starvation as a new section?

Should a new section be made about the recent deaths that have occurred in the past year or so? There isn't mention of the current estimations in the right info box, as far as the article 'North Korean Famine' is concerned, it ended in 1998. The estimation of 10,000-20,000 deaths is pretty steep, I think it merits its own section seeing how when a small plane crashes with 3 people on board it gets its own article. Thoughts? Johnsmithy678 (talk) 02:32, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea to me. bobrayner (talk) 11:16, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

I'd vote for that too.SylviaStanley (talk) 13:17, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Desperate eating measures and depletion of coutryside

YouTube videos speak of desperate measures, such as hunting of small animals like frogs and eating plants such as bark or grass. Also video of the countryside shows a ravaged, yellow countryside. It would be enlightening to read discussion of these developments in this article.Dogru144 (talk) 07:51, 19 January 2014 (UTC)