Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Seven Factor

Seven Factor

Seven Factor (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Not notable. Best known as a frontman from a non notable band (afd). Lacks coverage in reliable sources. Prod removed without comment. duffbeerforme (talk) 07:14, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

I disagree with user Duffbeerforme with their claim of Seven Factor in no notable and should be deleted for "being best known as front man for non notable band". 1st, the band being reffered to as Non Notable, was notable. their wiki page was deleted due to act of vandalism...this entire proposal to delete seems to be based off of that one aspect of an obviously multi level career. 2nd. Seven Factor was also associated with notable bands such as Crossbreed ( artemis records) and 16VOLT ( METROPOLIS RECORDS) Links to these bands are on the wiki page. 3rd. Seven Factor is the resident engineer at the world famous KDS STUDIOS in Orlando Florida,Formally transcon studios which launched such bands as NSYNC and the backstreet boys. Eminem has done his last 3 albums in this studio. His clients in this studio include some of the top selling artists on the billboard charts past and present. 4th. As a solo artists he has done remixes for notable bands Such as Tweaker, and Psyclon Nine.. and has a FACEBOOK VERIFIED Facebook page of just under 60,000 followers. 5th.As a producer and engineer he works closely and collaborates on projects with grammy and platinum sales award winning artists such as Chris Vrenna( Nine Inch Nails. Marilyn Manson, Knarles Barkley, Tweaker,) and Sara Lee Lucas( original Drummer for Marilyn Manson) 5th. As a multi media artists Seven Factor has done Video woe for such Notable bands as KMFDM, and CombiChrist... as well as mobile apps on the iTunes and android platform for Combichrist. It is obvious that Seven Factor has a long lasting, and very well established career in the music industry in many aspects of the filed , with many different bands .. not just 1 that was mistakenly deemed " not notable" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.84.251.218 (talk) 04:06, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Nice Resume, but notability is not inherited from those who he has worked with. duffbeerforme (talk) 14:09, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

its not "inherited" but according to wiki guidelines he meets the requirements for being involved in projects with "Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians" - thats taken directly from the guideline.. perhaps you did not read the entire article and are focused only on one part. your incorrect statements lead me to believe that perhaps you did not notice he was involved in multiple notable bands.. and has worked on projects with multiple other notable musicians and producers like himself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.84.251.218 (talk) 16:27, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Rcsprinter₁₂₃ (lecture) @ 12:39, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. Rcsprinter₁₂₃ (talk) @ 12:39, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, czar ♔ 05:19, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

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• Delete as non-notable per nom. At least this hasn't (yet) turned into the gigantic clustermess that surrounded the HUman Factors Lab AfDs. --Finngall ^talk 15:38, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Finngall, Why do you think this should be deleted. You mentioned the Human Factors Lab AFD.. were you apart of that conversation?. I feel perhaps you are ignoring the examples shown that Seven Factor meets the Notability guideline requirements and are basing your "delete" comment on that previous Human Factors Lab page.. when its only slightly related to this.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:10F8:7FD9:D69A:20FF:FE61:9DF5 (talk) 20:57, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Keep meets the following criteria for musicians as per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MUSIC#Others. 4.Has received non-trivial coverage in independent reliable sources of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country Example. Toured with KMFDM as support. here is one example of the extensive coverage of that north america tour http://www.steadymagazine.com/news/news-kmfdm-tour-north-america-this-august/ 6.Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles Seven Factor is currently working directly with members of KMFDM, Marilyn Manson, And Nine INch Nails — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:10F8:7FD9:D69A:20FF:FE61:9DF5 (talk) 21:15, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

1. 4, does not have extensive coverage. #6 Is not a member of any notable acts. Notability is not inherited from those who he has worked with.duffbeerforme (talk) 14:12, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Once again duffbeer is incorrect with his statements Was a member of 2 listed notable acts. Crossbreed ( Artemis records) and 16volt ( metropolis records) also Engineer/producer on one of crossbreeds Albums. As far as the "notability not inherited" statement. The guideline states at least 2 notable members involved in project. So listed notable members other than himself involved on projects. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.84.251.218 (talk) 06:39, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Changing the story yet again. Gone from associated to being a member. He was not a member in the commonly held sense, just a touring musician. Even if you count that as being a member it does not make him a prominent member. Your ensemble comment is a red herring, Mr Factor is not an ensemble. duffbeerforme (talk) 02:28, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

That's your opinion mr duffbeer. The facts however are all listed and have sources showing it meets the notability guidelines. Seven factor has been a member of multiple notable bands as a musician. Has worked on many notable projects as a music producer. And has worked directly with other notable musicians and producers on those projects. He is a resident is house Engibeer in a notable recording studio with over 200k RIAA sales. There have been multiple examples of why this page should be kept. However only 1 is needed. Correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.84.251.218 (talk) 06:01, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Let's look at your so called facts and sources.

Claim: "Seven factor has been a member of multiple notable bands as a musician".

Relevent policy would be WP:MUSIC#6 - "is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles"

What bands?

Human Factor Labs?. Not notable, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Human Factors Lab and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Human Factors Lab (band), deleted on both occasions despite similar spurious claims and sources as those provided here.

Duffbeer was a part of the Discussion to delete Human Factors Lab. . His nomination to delete this thread is no coincidence. he is basing his motives for wanting this page deleted almost Entirely on the notability of Human Factors Lab as decided by that dsicussion, and not taking into full account the other aspects that should be taken into consideration when deciding if Seven Factor should be kept or not — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:10F8:7FD9:D69A:20FF:FE61:9DF5 (talk) 03:22, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Crossbreed? Member lists from Wikipedia, James Rietz, Chris Nemzek, Corey Floyd, Kem Secksdiin, Ian Hall, Jay Diesel, Charlie Parker, Travis Simpkins, Dan "DJ" Izzo, Phil "Flip" Marquardt, Bishop, Mike Cais, Chris Morris, Dan Fox, Angel Bartolotta, Jason Tropf, Travis Inskeep. No Seven Factor. Evidence provided that Mr Factor was ever a member, let alone a prominent member. None.

16volt? Member lists from Wikipedia, Eric Powell and Mike Peoples. No Seven Factor. Members list from allmusic also does not have Seven Factor. Evidence provided that Mr Factor was ever a member, a single show announcement where S3ven played guitar. No sign of him being a prominent member.

Claim: "Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians"

Mr Factor is not an ensemble.

"Seven Factor is currently working directly with members of KMFDM, Marilyn Manson, And Nine INch Nails". That does not make him notable.

The claim that the "previous Human Factors Lab page" is "only slightly related to this". When the article on Seven Factor introduces him as "best known as the founding member of the industrial band Human Factors Lab." [1] (as it did before you changed the story) it's a bit hard to believe it's only "only slightly related"

A lie: "their wiki page was deleted due to act of vandalism". Let me guess, there was a big conspiracy to hide them from the world?

Another Lie "here is one example of the extensive coverage of that north america tour". No extensive coverage of Seven Factor touring in the provided link, just a passing mention of Human Factors Lab being on the tour in a routine announcement of the tour.

There has yet to be one truthful policy based example of why this page should be kept. duffbeerforme (talk) 11:03, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Addressing you previous post MrDuffBeer... lies and conspiracy is a strong words..lets take a step back from what appears to be an emotionally driven pursuit to have this page delted, and address the exact facts

Human Factors Lab -there was a call for deletion of the HFL page was because a user called "Bringthemdown" requested it.. this user was a former band member and created this account for the soul purpose of vandalizing the Human Factors Lab account. There was an extremely long deletion conversation about it. a large majority was made of of current band members voting to keep it, and previous band members voting to delete it. However there were a few people involved that were just regular wiki users that also voted to keep it.. in the end these votes were ignored, and Human Factors Lab was deemed not notable by wiki standards despite being a signed band 14 MAJOR US and Canadian tours under their belt and 8 albums releases , .. . That decision was made.. nothing we can do about that . So if thats your reason for saying Seven Factor is not notable because he was a member of that band. Ok.. We will give you that one. so lets put that aspect behind us now and focuss on the other elements.

-Seven Factor as a solo musician and producer has been Facebook verified with a verified Facebook fan base of just under 60 thousand fans. he is currently working on a studio album under that name. Other studio members of this ensemble include Chris Vrenna of Nine Inch Nails and Mariln Manson fame. And Steve White of KMFDM fame. So in this sense, Seven Factor is indeed an ensemble, with at least 2 notable members as per wiki guidelines

-Crossbreed. Seven Factor was the engineer/producer on the crossbreed New Slave Nation EP During this time frame he was also 1 of 2 keyboardists. you are correct, he is not credited on the crossbreed wiki site.. however is credited on the actual CD. Maybe someone reading this has a copy. I do not

-16VOLT. Like Many industrial bands 16volt is lead by 1 main person Eric Powel.. Other examples of this include Nine Inch Nail( trent Reznor) , KMFDM, ( Sascha), and Minitry( al jourgensen). .. 16volt by design is a band signed to Metropolis records as 1 person. It is considered a "super group" Eric Powel, the main driving force and only permanent member of that band, recruits other well known musicians in the Genera to perform when he tours. This was the case in the 2008 Denial Hwy tour, Featuring Seven Factor.. credited in a few of the MANY press released as S3ven as you pointed out. There are literally dozens of examples of reviews, announcements , ect from this tour mentioning Seven Factor as being a part of this band. if you would like i would be happy to ink them all, or feel free to google them yourself. Please let me know i you need me to link all of them and i will. The Fact that he was a "touring member" should not make him any less notable considering that 1. that is the nature of that band, and 2. he was chosen to be a part of it because he was considered notable by industrial music fans that attend 16volt shows.

Seven Factor is a music producer and musician. being a music producer, he works on many music projects with many well known musicians. We seem to have covered his own personal music career fairly well, but what are the guidelines concerning , albums, producers or audio engineers?....there are many well known engineers that are considered notable, but have never played in a "notable"band or are themselves considered an ensemble but are still vital parts of the recording process, and are considered notable in the music industry. Seven Factor is a resident producer at KDS music studio. This is one of the major recording studios in the country responsible for well over 200 million certified RIAA sales. Lets look at what that means. The People at one of the largest studios in the WOLRD , with some of the biggest artists in the industry ( Rhianna, Eminem, Dr Dre, Puff Daddy, Brittany Spears,NSync. backstreet boys)felt that Seven Factor was notable enough as a producer not just to invite him to work in this legendary facility, but to give him his own keys to the entire building, and his own office. As im sure you know.. Office space in facilities like this are not just given out, and are a rare thing to see in this industry.. other examples would be Pharrel has a simular office at south beach studios in Miami, fl . I think this speak volumes alone as to Seven Factors notability, however while at this studio he is working as a producer and engineer on a number the albums recording a number of major label artists. he is also working very closely,in an ensemble environment with members of Nine Inch Nails, Marilyn Manson, and KMFDM , they write songs together, for varies projects. Again.. I think that it should be considered the caliber of artists we are talking about. Now, it is obvious these artists are MORE notable than Seven Factor.. and with the amount of platinum albums and Grammies those artists have, it is not likely they would work with Seven Factor over the span of a few years of they did not view him as a peer in their industry

Regarding your claim of people lying, by saying it was an act of vandalism. It is easy to se by looking at the edit history of the HUman Factors Lab wiki page that it had been under attack of vandalism for a short time before the deletion request was put in. Do you need a link to show this as well? This was already addressed in the opening statement of this edit what took place there.

your "another lie" post. regarding touring Seven Factor was on a 45 date US/Canadian tour with KMFDM, , .. .. This was supported by Metrolpis Records, and there was coverage of the tour national by almost every major news outlet from rolling stone to the gauntlet as well as on a local level in every city news paper the tour visited. If you want to google KMFDM tour 2011 i am sure you will see dozens of examples of this. Seven Factor was an active member of this tour from its inception and represented on every flier and news coverage of the tour under the band name Human Factors Labin that same year he was involved in a 30 day tour with the band Mushroomhead .. 1 of 4 tours he had done with that band.If you are not familaru with Mushroomhead they just got off the recent mayhem tour which played to about 20K people a night, along side bands like Korn, and trivium. These tours were done under the name Human Factors Lab and are listed on each bands own wiki page. Listing Human Factors Lab

in closing, i strongly feel that duffbeer is basing his vote to delete based soley off of the Human Factors Lab deletion that took place.. in his mind.. If Human Factors Lab was deleted then Seven Factor must be deleted as well... in his mind he feels they are one in the same.. Lets be very clear that they are NOT the same. Seven Factor was the driving force behind Human Factors Lab... Just like Gene Simmons is the Driving force behind Kiss and Trent Reznor is the Driving force behind Nine Inch Nails......both examples have extensive careers outside of these bands.. Seven Factor is no different. I ask that the person making the desicion on this page please take this into consideration and make a fair decision based off of what it present here, not off of a previous thread — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:10F8:7FD9:D69A:20FF:FE61:9DF5 (talk) 02:31, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Do you realise that people can still read those afds. Anyone that does so will see how full of it your summary is. Not good for the credibility of any of your arguments. As for the rest of your wall of text, none of it makes him notable. duffbeerforme (talk) 00:55, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

• Delete not notable per WP:MUSBIO. Artist is not subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent from the musician. He has not been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:39, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
• Delete. Ugh. I was going to try to close this, but most of the mess above is tl;dnr material. Instead, I just took a look at all the references cited in the article. None of them even come close to providing the kind of coverage needed to satisfy WP:N. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:42, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Good afternoon (talk) 02:20, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

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• Delete - not entirely sure why this was relisted but there's no harm I suppose. There are at least 4 policy-based arguments for deletion and one very long (but entirely unconvincing and entirely non-policy) essay. If the proponents had put as much time into getting the subject some actual coverage in reliable sources as they have trying to argue their not-very-convincing case here then the subject would probably have been notable a long time ago. Having read the wall of nonsense above and have conducted my search, I can't help but agree with all but the proponent here. St★lwart¹¹¹ 04:47, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

• ""Keep"". I don't think we can entirely discount the points in the "essay" however I agree it could be formatted better. Are there any tips to help the article so that it meets wiki notability standards since it seems to be notable in the "real world" so to speak. I think we all have a common goal of improving wiki. Which seems expanding and improving articles is a better way to accomplish this than simply deleting. Or arguing

No amount of editing is going to make the subject more notable. The arguments in the essay above are pointless because they completely ignore the fact that Wikipedia has fairly well-established inclusion criteria and this subject doesn't meet those criteria. Wikipedia functions in the "real world" and specifically requires "real world" coverage written by "real world" authors and published in "real world" magazines and newspapers. Providing examples of such coverage would go a lot further than poor attempts at sock-puppetry. St★lwart¹¹¹ 08:39, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

examples have been given to show that Seven Factor is a notable music producer. You're welcome to disagree with this but please refrain from editing posts made by other users voting to keep it just because you disagree that keeping it is in fact the correct desicion. It's notable — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.148.218 (talk) 23:07, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

LOL, okay "concerned citizen who, having made no other edits ever, just happened to find this discussion". We'll assume good faith but we're not idiots. It's been tried before and has failed many, many, many times. I was doing you a favour but whatever... non-policy SPA contributions will likely be ignored anyway. St★lwart¹¹¹ 00:27, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

I can see you seem offended that I have not been signing my posts. My apologies. I am new to wiki. This has not been done with any Malaicous intent . Nor should it devalue the input I have added My concern is this article which is why I have contributed to this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.84.251.218 (talk) 05:20, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Not "offended" at all - your posts are being signed automatically by a bot, not by me. But that has revealed you are in fact the same person responsible for the essay above (rather than a "new" person) and that you've already contributed a !vote above. So I have, once again, struck your second !vote as you only get one. Keep digging. St★lwart¹¹¹ 07:17, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

I had assumed you were offended by your attempts to discredit my opinion and my vote with your comments regarding sock puppetry. Single porpose accounts. Your "looks like a duck" test. Link. Make claims that I was implying you're stupid. Even your little "keep digging" thing at the end. False counterproductive and uncalled for on all accounts.

Your second !vote will be ignored anyway and trying to reinstate it is disruptive. You're not doing yourself any favours. St★lwart¹¹¹ 09:36, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

I don't understand what you mean by "not doing myself any favors". Could you please elaborate. Also you keep referring to my one vote not counting. Why would my vote "not count". Also. Is this desicion based off of votes? I was under the impression that there would simply need to be one example showing that the article meets notabity guidelines. Correct? Examples have been shown — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.84.251.218 (talk) 09:59, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

No. Read WP:CONSENSUS and give some though to whether your conduct thus far is likely to build said consensus among your fellow editors. St★lwart¹¹¹ 13:01, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

• Delete. The sources cited in the article does not discuss the artist extensively. An internet search of the subject fails to establish notability as well. Versace1608 (Talk) 02:47, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

• KEEP-meets notability guideline requirements Specifically "Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians" Seven Factor, the band, contains two prominent members. Three if you consider Seven Factor, the person, himself 1.Chris Vrenna of Nine Inch Nails, Tweaker, and Marilyn Manson fame 2. Steve White of KMFDM and Pig Fame. both members have been showed to be associated directly with Seven Factor ,the person, and are members of Seven Factor, The Band,. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.84.251.218 (talk) 07:53, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Closing admin, please note this is the third time the IP in question has !voted (the only three contributions in favour of keeping this). Removing duplicate votes is met with edit-warring. St★lwart¹¹¹ 12:21, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Actually USer Stalwart1111 is incorrect in their statement that the only "IP in question" has voted multiple times and that the votes from IP are the only 3. If you look back on this discussion you can see this to be true. There have been more than 3 votes to keep the page. and they are not all from the same person, or IP. The question is does this page meet notability requirements. It has shown to meet number the requirement regarding 2 or more notable members as being involved.