Talk:Jinkx Monsoon: Difference between revisions

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"They" vs. "It"

Over the past few days, myself and an IP editor, ‎173.177.18.229, have been debating weather to overuse Hoffers name within the article, and use the pronoun "it" while referring to them, or weather to use genderless pronouns "they/them". As Jinkx describes themself as agender, I see no harm in using "they/them" pronouns, which is accepted grammatical usage (See singular they) and used for other articles in which persons do not identify as cisgender like Angel Haze.

I am strongly against using the term "it" when describing Hoffer, such term is used in the Biography section "Hoffer found Russian Jewish ancestry on its mother's side." considering that Hoffer is a person, not a thing or an object, I'd even push to say it was offensive that "it" is used. I also oppose replacing many of the uses of they/them with Hoffer in the article, as overuse of their name reads poorly.

Alerting several editors in hopes they join in with the discussion, either because I've seen them edit Drag Race related content, or gender sensitive topics like Angel Haze. I'd appreciate people starting their comments with either *'''They''' or *'''It''' thankyou. Burnberrytree, Genya19, Hinnk, Kyleofark. Azealia911 _talk 01:10, 31 May 2015 (UTC)([reply]

The debate is not really They vs It. I believe there is a way the article can be written, arguably more eloquently than by overusing 'Hoffer', without using they to refer to a single person (Jerick Hoffer may self-identify as genderless, but that does not automatically means the use of 'they' is mandated + the use of such queer studies jargon can provide the impression to readers that somehow it's a split personnality issue) or it (since there appears to be outrage about its use). Unless the performer specifies that the use of the pronoun him for his regular persona and she as his drag persona his offensive, I don't see where the problem is here.

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 Alerting several editors in hopes they join in with the discussion, either because I've seen them edit ''Drag Race'' related content, or gender sensitive topics like Angel Haze. I'd appreciate people starting their comments with either <nowiki>
-*'''They''' or *'''It'''</nowiki> thankyou. {{u|Burnberrytree}}, {{u|Genya19}}, {{u|Hinnk}}, {{u|Kyleofark}}. [[User:Azealia911|'''<font color="red">Azealia</font><font color="orange">911</font>''']] [[User talk:Azealia911|<font color="blue"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 01:10, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
+*'''They''' or *'''It'''</nowiki> thankyou. {{u|Burnberrytree}}, {{u|Genya19}}, {{u|Hinnk}}, {{u|Kyleofark}}. [[User:Azealia911|'''<font color="red">Azealia</font><font color="orange">911</font>''']] [[User talk:Azealia911|<font color="blue"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 01:10, 31 May 2015 (UTC)(
-:I cross-posted to [[WP:LGBT]] to see if some editors who may have addressed issues like these can provide some advice. Based on the Facebook comment alone, I'd be inclined to use male pronouns. [[Angel Haze]] explicitly stated their preference for ''they''/''their''. Hoffer, to the best of my knowledge, uses male pronouns when not in drag. Unless Hoffer explicitly requests it, the word ''it'' should absolutely not be used to refer to a person. [[User:hinnk|hinnk]] ([[User talk:hinnk|talk]]) 01:31, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
+The debate is not really They vs It. I believe there is a way the article can be written, arguably more eloquently than by overusing 'Hoffer', without using they to refer to a single person (Jerick Hoffer may self-identify as genderless, but that does not automatically means the use of 'they' is mandated + the use of such queer studies jargon can provide the impression to readers that somehow it's a split personnality issue) or it (since there appears to be outrage about its use). Unless the performer specifies that the use of the pronoun him for his regular persona and she as his drag persona his offensive, I don't see where the problem is here.
-::I'd never actually considered using male pronouns, I assumed that someone verifying themselves as agender would automatically mean losing gender-based pronouns, but your comment does make complete sense. I'd support male pronouns. [[User:Azealia911|'''<font color="red">Azealia</font><font color="orange">911</font>''']] [[User talk:Azealia911|<font color="blue"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 01:35, 31 May 2015 (UTC)