Talk:National Health Service

Comment

Note: To discuss the article National Health Service (England), please see Talk:National Health Service (England). this article is about the general concept of National Health Service.

History

I notice a lot of the history of the NHS and the motivations behind its creation - which equally applies to the rest of the UK - is displayed on the NHS England page, with scant information provided on, for example, the NHS Scotland page - and even less here.

I would like to gauge approval for expanding this article to cover the motivations behind the creation of a national health service in the UK, whilst providing a summary 'main article' link on each of the four NHSs' pages. --Breadandcheese (talk) 14:37, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

That sounds like a very sensible approach. -- Derek Ross | Talk 15:15, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to give a differing view, but the claim "which equally applies to the rest of the UK" is not entirely an accurate picture of the history. I think a better idea would be to add links from this article to the articles 'History of NHS Scotland', History of the NHS' etc Cheers Fishiehelper2 (talk) 17:07, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

No need to apologise for giving a divergent opinion! It is just that neither the NHS Scotland page or this general NHS page makes mention of, for example, the Beveridge Report, the role of Bevan or the motivations behind the creation of an institution which has been so significant in UK history. One shouldn't have to go to the NHS in England page to find out this information, which is relevant across the UK. --Breadandcheese (talk) 18:55, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Manx NHS; ending of reciprocal rrangement with UK NHSs

What’s inappropriate about including the Manx system and expanding the topic to include all British Isles NHS systems? It’s topical (was in the news recently) and relates to territory within the Common Travel Area affecting potentially up to 70 million visitors. A traveler could visit there without even a passport, and find out that the NHS while looking like the others isn’t available nor does their EHIC card work if they’re ill. I think that makes the changes appropriate and useful, and I’d be happy to hear the reasoning why it’s not. Zagubov (talk) 09:06, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree, though I would not use the phrase 'British Isles' - better to just list the countries or say 'the United Kindgom and the Isle of Man'. Cheers Fishiehelper2 (talk) 11:57, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks- found out more now- the cancellation of the agreement is postponed until October 2010, so will amend the info. Will choose a suitable reference when I get a moment. Zagubov (talk) 10:14, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

What this article needs

What remains unclear about this article is whether the NHS is an insurance scheme or outright government-owned (nationalized) health care -- meaning the state owns the providers (hospitals, doctors, etc.) If it's universal insurance (like Canada's Medicare), then who owns the providers? Are they largely private? If the NHS is a nationalized system, then is there any need for insurance per se? Wouldn't the system be funded primarily by taxes and supplemented by what Americans call "co-pays"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cgay88 (talk • contribs) 15:30, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

This lack of clarity is the actual situation. It isn't a fault in the article.Rathfelder (talk) 23:51, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

It's all a bit of a mess. Pleasetry (talk) 23:55, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

List of NHS websites

There are a lot of NHS websites scattered about and I think it would be a good idea to have a main list on this article detailing them. Pleasetry (talk) 23:45, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Isn't that why we have categories? there must be at least 1000 articles on various aspects of the NHS. Rathfelder (talk) 23:51, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

A section on the differences between NHS regions

It could also do with a short section briefly detailing the differences between England,Scotland and any other regions.Pleasetry (talk) 00:00, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

No criticism section?

Is the NHS beyond reproach? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.114.64.28 (talk) 05:38, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Ideally, no article would have a dedicated Wikipedia:Criticism section. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:48, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was not to merge: 5 users disagree, 0 support. Rwendland (talk) 14:59, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

---

I propose that Emergency Medical Services 1939-1945 be merged into National Health Service. The former is a fairly short entry with a title that could be confusing. At first I thought that the entry would summarize the history of emergency medical services between 1939 and 1945. Since this seems to have been an important step in the development of the NHS, I think it might make the most sense to incorporate it here. EricEnfermero ^HOWDY! 18:54, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Disagree. The treatement of the NHS is confusing enough already. The EMS was legally speaking an entirely separate animal. The article needs development. not mergingRathfelder (talk) 23:46, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

I also diagree with the merger proposal. This article covers four health-care organisations which came into life in 1948 as a result of the Beveredge report of 1942 and the subsequent establishment of a welfare state in the UK. There isn't a great deal of evidence that the EMS was a really a precursor (except in the sense of being chronologically first), it would likely have been deemed necessary in wartime whether or not a wider healthcare scheme was established later. So the EMS is really out of scope of this article. Thom2002 (talk) 18:57, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Disagree - The EMS was a separate entity which existed during the war, the NHS was post war. -- Cowplopmorris^Talk_Contribs 14:36, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Disagreed with the proposal, agreed with User:Rathfelder. NHS is a huge organization, they are concerned with diseases, abuses, etc. They are highly reliable and accurate. They deserve a separate page. OccultZone (Talk) 15:09, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Comment: if EMS is/was the name of a distinct organization, (i.e. an agency that provided emergency medical services, it should be made clear in the respective article. --Animalparty-- (talk) 21:04, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Disagree. Separate organisations. As disagree is general conclusion since January 2014, I'll close this proposal down. Rwendland (talk) 12:45, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I'm a doctor working in the NHS.

My juniors tell me I’m an inspiration. They tell me that the only reason they have hope is because they can see through me that it is possible – to be a woman, have children and a career in the NHS. They tell me I’m the only reason they think they can keep going. The comments from my recent appraisal included “outstanding” and “one of the best I have ever worked with”.

I’m nearly 40 years old and I have a six-year medical degree, a BSc, an MD and membership of the Royal College of Surgeons. I also have two children, debts which make me sick with worry each month, a marriage which is likely over and a good going stomach ulcer. I work part-time but that involves a 100-mile round trip, three-hour commute and being away from my children for 48 hours every week because I can’t afford to live close enough to the hospital. I work 60 hours a week in order to make my part-time arrangement work.

I can’t afford to attend the conferences and courses I need to in order to make consultant. I can’t afford the last exam I need to do. I can’t afford my General Medical Council fees, my medical defence insurance or my membership of the Royal College of Surgeons that I worked so hard to earn. I can’t afford the petrol to drive to work each day.

This year I have been screamed at, spat at and kicked. I have physically removed excrement from someone who needed that help. I have cut off people’s legs. I have told people that the most important person in the world to them is dying. I have told people that they are dying. I have told a woman her child may not survive. I have not eaten or drunk anything over a 13-hour period more times than I can remember. This year, once a week, I have woken up on the floor cold, jittery, anxious, hungry and traumatised by the things I have seen and the things I have had to do.

This year I have been so pressured and overstretched. I have several times run to theatre to do an operation to find my patient is already asleep, with me having never met or assessed them. I have had to choose which elderly sick patient I want to stay on an A&E trolley all night because there are no beds. I have been told “no” by a theatre manager when I’ve said that we need to cancel our elective surgeries because I have seven sick patients who have been waiting two to three days for emergency surgery and I’m afraid for their safety. I’ve been told we have to move a dying patient in the middle of the night because otherwise the hospital will be fined.

This year my children have been inconsolable asking why I have to look after other people and why can’t I just look after them? This year every few weeks I have not seen my children for five days straight even though we all live in the same house. This year, I have asked neighbours, friends and someone I skyped for only 20 minutes to look after my precious children.

I have been doing this for 12 years.

This year, for the first time since I was 13 years old, I have decided I can’t do it anymore. As I write this, there are tears streaming down my face because all I ever wanted to do was be a doctor and help other people. But I just can’t do it anymore. Especially when I don’t think I’m helping anyone the way I want to.

The junior doctor contract is supposed to be “cost neutral” but for someone who works part time, it means I will likely never see my salary improve. It means I could not have afforded to have either of my children. It means the female doctors who look up to me so much, will have to choose children or their careers. It will mean hospitals can make me work as many Saturdays as they like which is the only time I have left with my children – my husband has long given up on me.

Junior doctors – 'no one understands the level of responsibility we have'

Read more

It means a 30% pay cut for me from next August and anyone else who works in an emergency specialty.

It’s not cost neutral. It is at such a cost that it is now too high a price to pay. My family and I won’t survive this contract – financially or personally.

It’s time to put my children first.

So I’m sorry to all those who have supported me. I’m sorry to all those juniors who look up to me and to whom I give hope. I’m sorry to the British public for giving up on you.

I just can’t look into the future and face this any more.