Talk:Christian universalism

Redirect

Christian Universalism should not REDIRECT to Christian Reconciliation. They are simular, but Christian Universalism is a much broader catagory which should include the following Wiki articles:

Apokatastasis

Primitive Baptist Universalist

Trinitarian Universalism

Unitarian Universalism

Universal Reconciliation

Universalist Church of America

Quaker Universalist Group

Discussion welcome, changes made to reflect the complexity of the Christian Universalism issue. StudentoftheWord 19:15, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Reminder:: Christian Univeralism is the denomination and it's beliefs and not the doctrine of salvation which encompasses all humanity. █►Student Of the Word◄█

The whole article is a mess you are using archaic language to explain complex matters

Set out that trinitarian dogma and unitiarian logic differs radically before you start explaining the term universalism.

Uni means one, trini means three get out of the bubble!

Weatherlawyer (talk) 03:58, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Redirect to Universal Reconciliation

If "Christian Universalism" is distinct from "Universal Reconciliation" then please write an article on one that is not merely a copy-and-paste of the other. Right now this article is a near-identical duplication of the lede of Universal Reconciliation and should therefore redirect to that article for the time being. Redirecting. Mike R 15:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Christian Universalism is indeed a much broader topic than Universal Reconciliation. I have written a new article about Christian Universalism and removed the redirect. Shiningdove (talk) 02:35, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree, even just one type of Christian Universalism alone, Evangelical Universalism, made prominent by books like Thomas Talbott's "The Inescapable Love of God" and Gregory MacDonald's "The Evangelical Universalist", cover more than the topic of Universal Reconciliation.(talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:51, 19 October 2010 (UTC).

In other nations

I much enjoyed reading this article. But I note that it seems to be entirely USA-centric from about 1700 onward.David.Throop (talk) 22:08, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Also, I am wondering whether the general ideas of Christian Universalism apply to all Christians, or all of humanity. The article is vague concerning this distinction. --DMP47 (talk) 19:14, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

This page needs a historical section

I came looking for information on New England Universalist beliefs and the Universalist connection to Spiritualism. The article seems to be largely focused on contemporary beliefs at the expense of historical development. Unitarians and Universalists were not always united as they are now, and the historical distinction needs to be made by someone who knows the history.

MarkBul (talk) 17:35, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

numbering error?

"The first five of these beliefs were found in the Five Principles of Faith adopted in 1899 by the Universalist General Convention, a historical Christian denomination which was later called the Universalist Church of America.[5] All six of these beliefs are found in the statement of faith adopted in 2007 by the Christian Universalist Association.[6]"

I only see five beliefs listed with bullet points. Why are six beliefs mentioned in the second sentence?

Eriugena

Removed 'Scotch' because it's meaningless. Scotus and Eriugena meant the same thing at the time: Irish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.74.64.44 (talk) 03:41, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

WP:CFORK

Most of this article is busy with establishing that universal reconciliation was a belief present in early Christianity. This is not the place to do this, as we have a dedicated article, at Universal reconciliation. The topic of this article should remain restricted to the Christian denomination of the 1770s to the present known as "Christian Universalism". It is also pointless to dwell on the fact that Christian Universalists believe in God and Jesus Christ etc. since they share this conviction with all Christians, and it is sufficient to just say they are a Christian denomination. The salient point is their belief in universal reconciliation, which is certainly not shared by most other denominations. --dab (𒁳) 11:45, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I am in agreement, this article needs to be clarified that Christian Universalism is a Denomination and NOT the doctrine of Universalism, Universal reconciliation is the establish article for the doctrine of universalism in Christianity. █►Student Of the Word◄█

Major Flaw: Universalism ≠ Ultimate Reconciliation

This article has a major flaw: Universalism is not the same belief as Ultimate Reconciliation; not even from the narrowest Christian definition. This article blurs the two into a muddy topic. That is the cause of some of the disagreement I'm reading. To drastically over-simplify the difference; Universalism means everyone gets a "pass," while Ultimate Reconciliation recognizes that the unrepentant get punished, but all will eventually be reconciled to Christ. --LanceHaverkamp 17:46, 13 November 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lance W. Haverkamp (talk • contribs)

The article claims:

"In 1899 the Universalist General Convention, later called the Universalist Church of America, adopted the Five Principles: the belief in God, Jesus Christ, the immortality of the human soul, the reality of sin and Universal reconciliation"

Are you saying this is wrong? Then please present better references establishing what the actual principles adopted were. If it is correct, I don't see how you can argue that Christian Universalism is not characterized by the belief in universal reconciliation? After all, the other four principles, belief in God, Jesus Christ, the soul and the reality of sin is accepted by every Christian denomination I have ever heard of. Thus, principles 1 to 4 make "Christian Universalism" Christian, while principle 5 distinguishes it as Univeralism. --dab (𒁳) 11:58, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Merge?

Sorry, but what is there in this article that does not duplicate universal salvation article? In ictu oculi (talk) 01:41, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

It is also about the 19th century religious movement. The article could be {{split}} into Universalist Church of America and Universal reconciliation. --dab (𒁳) 12:01, 3 December 2010 (UTC) That suggestion makes sense. The duplicate content could be redistributed and a disambiguation page left In ictu oculi (talk) 20:50, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Christian Universalism is a religious tradition that includes Universal reconciliation, a.k.a. Universal Salvation. I argue that maintaining both pages is necessary, as Christian Universalism includes so much more than Universal reconciliation. The article on Christian Universalism describes the history and beliefs (note: beliefs, plural) of the tradition, whereas the article on Universasl reconciliation is about the singular belief of Universal reconciliation. It would be unnecessary and confusing to merge them. Again, my opinion. Americanseeker (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:18, 15 December 2010 (UTC).

I quote from the article itself: "Christian Universalism is a school of Christian theology which includes the belief in Universal reconciliation." Emphasis on the word "includes." Americanseeker (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:22, 15 December 2010 (UTC).

I believe the two concepts are distinct enough that they're fine the way they are. Gateman1997 (talk) 19:07, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Article very limited in its scope

This article barely even touches on Christian teachings of universal reconciliation before modern times Where are all the pre-modern fathers and theologians that modern denominations build on (Figures like Origen and the Cappadocian fathers, various medievals such as H. Julian of Norwich)? They are not part of this article. As such, it is quite incomplete.

F.W. Farrar's public domain book Mercy and Judgment should be a very useful resource for expanding this article. 74.133.104.185 (talk) 03:13, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Agreed. 174.4.163.53 (talk) 12:31, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

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=thisPROPAGANDA??

We read in 2 Corinthians 5:19 that "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;" and that the veil which obscures one's realization of what they have is removed through faith in Jesus. In 2 Corinthians 4:4 we read "the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."81.11.230.198 (talk) 07:52, 21 April 2016 (UTC)