Talk:Indian Administrative Service

Cab Sec not Constitutional Authority

The cabinet secretary is not a "constitutional authority". The constitution does not refer to the post as such, and there was no "cabinet secretary" per se, until the 1960s. Just because of the fanciful assumptions of a few, we should not distort the truth. The item designating the cabinet secretary as a constitutional authority should be removed. The Cabsec is a professional, and serving government servant, and cannot be deemed to be a const. authority on a par with Judiciary, Commission members, the President, and other such. The Cabsec is fully liable to dismissal at the pleasure of the President, if the government so chooses, without any recourse to parliamentary ratification. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.63.75.210 (talk) 07:47, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Factual Error in the IAS and IPS article

Quote from MV Kamat

"For example, M. V. Kamath said that the ICS was neither Indian, nor civil nor a service."

Are you sure that it is MV Kamath who told this first? In Glimpses of World History, Jawaharlal Nehru has written (in 1932) -- "Someone has said, ICS is neither Indian, nor civil nor a service". So it has been told before 1932, and MV Kamath is not that old to have said before that. I'll change the MV Kamath reference if there is no objection. --Sahodaran (talk) 04:48, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

The above quote is a paraphrase on the witticism of Voltaire on the Holy Roman Empire that it was "neither Holy nor Roman nor an Empire". - Gopalan evr (talk) 04:39, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Please note that the three 'Category A' civil services of Govt. of India as designated by UPSC are:

1. Indian Administrative Service 2. Indian Police Service 3. Indian Foreign Service, not Indian Forest Service.(wrong. see below Gopalan evr 11:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC))

In fact, Forest Service is a lower category service, and has a separate examination and interview conducted by UPSC. It is not a part of the All India Civil Services Examination. Foreign service officers typically hold the ranks of Indian Diplomats in foreign countries Request appropriate correction.

Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to…) The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. :D 68.39.174.238 17:35, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

The only three All India Services are the Indian Administrative, Police and Forest Services. The Indian Foreign Service is a Group A service of the Govt of India. An All India Service is created by a resolution initiated in the Rajya Sabha (House of the States, Upper House) of the Indian Parliament. Its members are then "loaned" to the State governments. While the officers of the IAS and IPS, and twenty five other services, are selected through a common examination, the Forest Service is selected through a separate examination. The inclusion of the Foreign Service in the Civil Services Examination has created an impression that it is an All India Service. It is not.- Gopalan evr 04:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The term "All India Services" means that the civil servants of these cadres can be / are scattered all across India (like every district needs an administrator, police authority and a forest conservator) on the other hand, Indian Foreign Service officers are generally stationed at New Delhi (at Ministry of External Affairs or consulates) or serve at other countries as India's diplomats so that doesn't qualify them as a part of All India Services. This has nothing to do with stature or rank, all the civil services are quite tough to get into, especially the IAS and IES (Indian Engineering Services). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.123.160 (talk) 11:47, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

All India Services are created under Article 312 of the Constitution http://lawmin.nic.in/olwing/coi/coi-english/coi-indexenglish.htm and as Mr Gopalan mentions above, are loaned to the State Governments. The nomenclature does not have to do with the physical location of the officers in the Districts or in New Delhi. Nagarajan08 (talk) 21:19, 19 April 2017 (UTC) Nagarajan.

Indian Foreign Service

Indian Foreign Service is not an All India Service. It is a Central Service. Indian Forest Service is an All India Service.

Yes .

Phuntunampucholi (talk) 15:43, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

All India Services are services common to the States and the Union. The terminology is from Article 312 of the constitution http://lawmin.nic.in/olwing/coi/coi-english/Const.Pock%202Pg.Rom8Fsss(19).pdf http://lawmin.nic.in/olwing/coi/coi-english/coi-indexenglish.htm which creates the AIS. There is no implication about the status of the AIS vis-a-vis the Central Services, nor the Indian Forest Service vis-a-vis the Indian Foreign Service.

Nagarajan08 (talk) 21:15, 19 April 2017 (UTC) Nagarajan.

Orphaned references in Indian Administrative Service

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Indian Administrative Service's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "history":

• From Indian Police Service: "Data History of Indian Police Service (Official Raj Govt. Page)". Retrieved 2010-04-26.
• From International Standard Book Number: See discussion of the history at isbn.org.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 07:06, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

External links modified

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Cadre strength

Should this article include cadre strength of each State with persons in place and vacancies? I had made the table but it has been deleted by an anonymous user stating that the table is an internal matter of DOPT and need not be present in an encyclopedia.

Nagarajan08 (talk) 21:19, 19 April 2017 (UTC)Nagarajan

== I have included the cadre strength of each State since there is no discussion. Please discuss with a name ; do not delete anonymous! Why does someone think it an advertisement or promotion of IAS? An a non-sequitir that Wikipedia is not Indian? Please suggest what can be included to make it a comprehensive A-category article.

S.Nagarajan (talk) 11:50, 25 April 2017 (UTC)Nagarajan.

Career Progression

The number of years of service to reach a particular level is typical and the minimum required under the IAS Rules. It had been part of the table before I edited it and segregated the State / Central designations. Later it has been deleted by anonymous, with an anecdote about someone they know. Should the column be included or not?

~~Nagarajan.

I have added the column showing number of years required to reach the level based on the IAS Pay Rules 2016, with a note regarding the posts in the Union.

Nagarajan08 (talk) 07:53, 25 April 2017 (UTC)Nagarajan.

I have added the designations Deputy Commissioner (used e.g. in Punjab), District Collector (used in TN, AP, TS, Maharashtra) which are identical to DM used in UP, Bihar, Bengal. The Collector was the revenue authority created under the appropriate revenue regulation e.g. Madras Collectors Regulation 1803, and the designation District Magistrate is from the Criminal Procedure Code. They both refer to the same post and are vested in the same person. Due to differing focus historically, commonly they are called preferring any one nomenclature.

Nagarajan08 (talk) 08:15, 25 April 2017 (UTC)Nagarajan.

1. The number of years to reach a particular position is given in the IAS Pay Rules 2016, and also in the service profile document of DOPT. An earlier edit deleted the column 'years of service' stating that the years of service was not the same for posts in the Central government and 'knew someone who became JS in Govt of India in 27 years'. I suggest we can have the years of service without talking about the exceptions. 2. Nomenclature of postings - please see http://persmin.gov.in/ais1/Docs/ServiceProfile.pdf which has the names District Magistrate / District Collector / Deputy Commissioner as an entry on page 2.

S.Nagarajan (talk) 11:12, 28 April 2017 (UTC) Nagarajan.

Concerns and reforms

Would a paragraph about the 7th pay commission discussion on pay parity be in place here? And also about the committee constituted to look into the issue of empanelment - major reform?

Nagarajan08 (talk) 21:19, 19 April 2017 (UTC) Nagarajan.

List of IAS officers

This article has a link to a list of IAS officers convicted of corruption , which leads to one further article only about Neera Yadav. How about a category : list of IAS officers ?

Nagarajan08 (talk) 21:20, 19 April 2017 (UTC) Nagarajan

I have added a section linking to Category: List of IAS officers.

Nagarajan08 (talk) 07:54, 25 April 2017 (UTC)Nagarajan.

How do we make this good enough to be an A-class article?

Suggestions? We can discuss. Nagarajan08 (talk) 21:22, 19 April 2017 (UTC)Nagarajan.

IAS as sole successor to ICS; Administration in civil service

• Indian Administrative Service presently canot term itself as the sole and the only successor to the Imperial Civil Service. Candidates who were selected in the ICS went through mandatory probation training and education in England and UK. This period was spent at the University of Oxford (Indian Institute), the University of Cambridge, colleges in the University of London, Trinity College, Dublin and few other top universities in UK. At present, IAS dont write their exams either in UK or go through their probationary period in London or have anything to do with British Empire. So IAS is not ICS. ICS was terminally dead as a service when British left India after 250 years of rule and Indians as a slave race in India.
• During British rule in India, a member of Provincial Civil Services (now called the State Civil Services) could take posts in the Imperial Civil Service but technically never promoted to the ICS, because PCS officer never in the first place took their exams in UK or went through the probationary training as ICS officers did.
• Imperial Civil Service were the most intelligent people and elite educated people who ruled over 300 million people in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Burma (then comprising British Raj). ICS officers were known for their purpose of mission, love for their duty, loyalty to British Empire and looking after matters of permanent British settlement in India. However, IAS fraternity have been in recent years have been found guilty of crimes in 2G, Colgate, CWG and all other major scams in India. Now, many members are dismissed by Cabinet of India and PM due to pathetic job they do in administration.
• Public Service itself is "Public administration" . There is an academic degree called MPA/MPPA which teaches about public administration as a field and a job. All members in the civil service of India (3 All India Services) and Central Civil Services (Group A and B) and Central Secretariat Service is all about Public Service and respective administration in their tasks. IAS is a generalist service which knows nothing and has been proved good for nothing. The members in IAS have neither technical skills and neither specialized skills. Their jobs can be done by a qualified CSS cadre or even a IPS cadre. Gautam Sanyals appointment as Principal Secretary in West Bengal has proved this reality and theory.

Japanmomo (talk • contribs)
_______________________________________________________________________________

• • Indian Administrative Service is the sole successor to the Imperial Civil Service, just like IPS is the successor of Imperial Police, and CSS is successor to ISS. The job profile of both ICS and IAS is eerily similar. Also, State Civil Services are feeder services to IAS. And even then, PCS officers occupy positions that IAS officers hold in the state government, i.e. Special Secretaries in State Secretariats, VCs/Commissioners of Development Authorities, Municipal Commissioners, and of course SDM.
  • Most IAS officers too are educated from some of the most prestigious institution in world and India, like the Oxford University, Cambridge University, Harvard University, London School of Economics, IITs, IIMs, Delhi University Colleges, NITs and IITS. Getting an All India rank between 1-100 in an exam written by 1 to 1.5 million people is an exemplary feat in itself.
  • 2 or 3 officers out of a total 5 thousand, being dismissed from service doesn't equate to majority or even significant. Even IPS and CSS officers have been dismissed from service.
  • IAS officers being good for nothing is subjective, and purely your opinion. IAS as a generalist service fills key management positions in every level of government. IAS officers like TN Sheshan have served the nation very well in positions like the Chief Election Commissioner of India, RBI Governor, UPSC Chairman, among others. IAS officers also have uncovered major scams while serving in a 'specialist' position like Comptroller and Auditor General of India.
  • CSS officers are generalist too, and if one goes by your argument, one would arrive to the conclusion that they are good for nothing too. And, CSS officers being appointed to positions in state governments proves nothing, rather I would say it's an outlier. The Prime Minister's Principal Secretary heads his office, and he's an IAS officer. And Gautam Sanya was appointed as PS to WB CM because of he is close to the WB CM (as PS to CM/PM should be), before his appointment as PS/S to CM, he was OSD to Railway Ministry (Mamta was the Railway Minister then). SshibumXZ (talk) 02:27, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

_______________________________________________________________________________

• Indian Administrative Service is not the successor or has anything do with Imperial Civil Service. The ICS entity died the day British white European people moved out of India in the year 1947.
• In regards to history of civil service, the British wouldn't have known nothing about it, if it were not the Chinese or Imperial China. The origin of the modern meritocratic civil service can be traced back to Imperial examination founded in Imperial China. The Imperial exam based on merit was designed to select the best administrative officials for the state's bureaucracy. British efforts at reform were influenced by the imperial examinations system and meritocratic system of China. Thomas Taylor Meadows, Britain's consul in Guangzhou, China argued in his Desultory Notes on the Government and People of China, published in 1847, that "the long duration of the Chinese empire is solely and altogether owing to the good government which consists in the advancement of men of talent and merit only," and that the British must reform their civil service by making the institution meritocratic.
• I regard the golden period of civil service in India to be from 1945 to 1970. ICS members were outstanding. They let outstanding members in other services to come on the top. The Education Secretary, Labor Secretary and Member of UPSC (1967-1973) were all members from the Central Secretariat Service. During this period CSS cadre officers were allowed, by then serving ICS officers on top in GOI, to serve as diplomats at embassies/High Commissions of India abroad. Notable officers include - K Shankar (1969), FA High Commission of India London and H K Kochar (1970), DG ISD London. They are all CSS cadre officers.

History

• In the British Raj, the primary job of ICS officer was revenue collection, revenue administration and money generation for the Government of India. However, after creation of the Indian Revenue Service and Income Tax Service, Group ‘B’, revenue generation and money collection/generation has come under the Central Civil Service and not IAS of state cadres.
• Before the creation of IAS as a service, India was pretty doing well without it. India was once the richest subcontinent on the planet. However ow IAS is the most corrupt service in the country with being arrest in CWG, @G, Hawala and all other major scandals in India. I will not be surprised to see IAS filled up in Tihar Jail.

Japanmomo (talk • contribs)