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:Really what does this say? [https://www.flightglobal.com/asset/21905/waf/ World Air Forces 1997] - [[User:FOX 52|FOX 52]] ([[User talk:FOX 52|talk]]) 19:28, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
:Really what does this say? [https://www.flightglobal.com/asset/21905/waf/ World Air Forces 1997] - [[User:FOX 52|FOX 52]] ([[User talk:FOX 52|talk]]) 19:28, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Your first source doesn't say anything [https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1993/1993%20-%202794.html] on that, other one you pulled just now [https://www.flightglobal.com/asset/21905/waf/] has question marks for G-4 and J-22, wrong data for MiG-21MF and wrong numbers and data for An-26, SA342 and Bell 205. Somebody confused Croatian Air Force with Yugoslav Air Force. Sources for my claims in English are [http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/waf/croatia/af2/cro-af2-all-time.htm], [http://mm.iit.uni-miskolc.hu/data/Winx/afes/croatian.html]. You can always search for actual facts on the official Croatian DoD site [https://www.morh.hr/en]. More accurate data and tables are at [https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrvatsko_ratno_zrakoplovstvo_i_protuzračna_obrana Croatian Wikipedia]. As you're not a member of Croatian Air Force or a native Croatian speaker you'll have to do some digging, not just copy paste.

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Croatian Air Force and Defense

There is no such organization in Croatia, it is either Croatian Air Force and Air Defense or Croatian Air Force.

Hrvatsko Ratno Zrakoplostvo means Croatian Air Forces. Change it, thanx Mic of orion (talk) 14:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]


PS, this page needs bit of grammar work and updating a bit. Mic of orion (talk) 14:25, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mig21 immage posted on wiki of Croatian Airforce.

Mic of orion 16:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)Mic of orionMic of orion 16:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC) Can anyone see this image ?[reply]

Someone somehow put Mig-21. Image name is MiG21 HR.jpg --Dtomcro 18:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC) [1][reply]



File:MiG-21 HR.jpg
MiG21 BIS

Procurement Plans Accuracy

The Croatian Ministry of Defence (MORH , www.morh.hr for links to certain relevant documents) reports the proposed accquisition of 5 Zlin 142 basic trainers in 2007. There is no official record (or independent as far as I can find) of 2 Zlin 242L aircraft having been delivered to the HRZ during 2006, nor of an existing order for an additional 4 such aircraft.

The modernization programme extends the service-life of Croatia's An-32s until at least 2015 (probably 2020) and since this is continuing, I would suggest that this undermines the reports of the accquisition of 3-5 large transport aircraft (again not officially recorded in MORH documents). Speculation on the expansion of the transport fleet by 1-2 aircraft may be reasonable, but any further procurements would not be financially viable.

Neither is their any official record of plans to create a capable ASW helicopter fleet nor do funds exist for a significant expansion of this.

The statement about the procurement of 4-8 corvettes from France has no foundation in MORH policy, and all independent records suggest that any procurement would be from Sweden (Goteborg class) rather than France. There is an MORH plan to create an off-shore patrol force (project beginning 2009), but whether advanced ships like the Goteborg class fall into this category (particularly considering financial constraints and plans to reduce the HRM's RBS-15 SSM arsenal) is debatable.

The MORH does not make any suggestion of an expansion to the CL-415 fleet.

It should be noted that most of these objections to the article are raised from the absence of official Croatian government documents on the procurement plans and impossibilities raised by financial considerations over the current 2006-2015 procurement period.

KPThaller 11:57, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi KPThaler,

Unfortunately no info on Zlin until they were actually delivered, it was reported by Croatian TV and Croatian MOD can verify the delivery. Air Force has plans to replace all its UTVA-75 with Zlin242L by the end of the decade, not sure are they going to replace one for one basis, but it looks most likely the case.

As to transport aircraft, yep it is not really clear what Croatia aims to buy, although 2 An32B are good aircraft, they are inadequate for Croatian needs.

CN295 where in contention, Flight International stated that unnamed Croatian MOD official stated that 5xCN295 are being sought. I don't know how much CN295 costs (I assume to be in region of 25-30 million per aircraft) we are talking major funds, considering the inevitable purchase of 14 JAS39 (if Grippen wins) this is 700 million euros out of the window.

As to helicopters, Croatia intends to procure additional helicopters, current fleet is very old and inadequate, with the deliver of 10 new Mil 171sh, Croatia will field 40 helicopters that are in flying condition.

Croatia needs about 30-40 more helicopters, but when and how they going to get them is beyond me. 4-6 ASW helicopters are only option if Croatia goes ahead with the purchase of 4 new Corvettes as stated in defense white paper.

Croatia plans no other ASW assets, no submarines either. 15-20 billion Kuna has been set aside to for procurement of new equipment over next 7-8 years. Navy is to receive around 3 billion, Air Force - 7 billion and Army 5 billion, but additional funds might be available after 2010.

Croatian aim is to bring armed forces to NATO standard by 2015.Mic of orion

Someone posted information about Croatian AF getting F35's along with the JAS 39 C/D, this is not accurate, Croatian AF won't be getting any F35's, aircraft are deemed to expensive. Croatian AF might get E/F version of JAS 39 as Sweden is currently looking to offer enhanced version of JAS 39 to potential customers, Denmark, Norway and Croatia, but only if there is a interest for that particular version. Mic of orion

Fair use rationale for Image:Hrm.jpg

Image:Hrm.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 01:50, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Hkov.jpg

Image:Hkov.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 10:07, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Numbers of Mig 21

In the official page,Croatian air force have 24 mig and not 12. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.172.251.123 (talk) 20:54, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

since 2 migs crashed the other day only 6-8 are in airworthy condition and now croatia is forced to replace entire mig fleet with the modern western fighter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.220.53.72 (talk) 02:49, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Helicopter & Fixed Aircraft possible future procurements

current helicopter fleet consist of 24 Mil 171sh/8MTV and 8 Bell 206, but this barley suffices the need of the air force. Long term plan calls for 12 attack helicopters, 24 transport helicopters, 6 antisubmarine helicopters, 4 Search and rescue helicopters and up 12 utility and training helicopters. Giving us a fleet that might look something like this around 2020, btw this is all speculative, and it depends on Croatia's ability to mange its finances and keep defence budget at around 2% of GDP..

  • 18-24x EF2000 or JAS39C/D - attack/intercept
  • 20x PC9M (modernisation around 2017/8)Advanced Training
  • 8x Zlin 242L Basic Training
  • 6x CL 415 Fire Fighting
  • 6x AT802 Fire Fighting
  • 5x C27J or CN295 - Tactical Transport and Para Training
  • 2x CL604 - VIP
  • 3x Pilatus PC6 or similar - utility and light transport


—Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.220.53.72 (talk) 11:14, 20 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mirage F1 and Mirage 2000

Are you sure they are proposed? These are not produced anymore so how can have they been proposed? Matthieu (talk) 11:31, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Matt, mirage 2000 were on a cards, at least France was offering its Mirage 2000-5, details of the offer aren't known suffice to say offer wasn't successful as Croatia has now opted for either Jas39 or EF2000. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.220.53.72 (talk) 23:37, 20 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Aviation history

Since NDH is not by any legal line predecessor of today's Republic of Croatia it cannot be said that Croatian aviation beginnings were in the Croatian Air Force Legion. If anything from that period can be considered the beginning it must be the small partisan air force(Yugoslav_Partisans#Partisan_Air_Force).

Yeah, it "wasn't the predecesor of today's Republic of Croatia" but was supported by almost all the population of Croatia, because the Croats were dominated in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. The today's rulers of Croatia said that the NHD wasn't the predecesor state of Croatia for political reasons. If they supported the NDH will recive a international conviction. It's very simple, the victors in war are those who decide who was the "Criminal state" and who wasn't. --190.172.241.32 (talk) 23:20, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Defence or defense?

This article mixes both variants but according to WP:ENGVAR it must be consistent in the variety of English used. How does the Croatian goverment spell it in their English documents, press releases, etc? Roger (talk) 06:17, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've just found the answer, the official website uses Defence - http://www.morh.hr/en/ - I'm going to fix this article now. Roger (talk) 06:28, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Move

I have moved the article to its previous name as the one Director used is completely misleading, made up and plain wrong. The full title of the service is Hrvatsko ratno zrakoplovstvo i protuzračna obrana (Croatian Air Force and Air Defence), and its present English title is in line with other similar articles (for example: Serbian Air Force and Air Defence and Slovenian Air Force and Air Defence. The term "Croatian Air Defence (Hrvatska protuzračna obrana) means nothing and the designation has never been used, either by the Croatian Ministry of Defence or by foreign publications and other sources to describe the CroAF. Not to mention that "Croatian Air Defence" more accurately describes the Air Defence Regiment (Pukovnija protuzračne obrane) of the Croatian ground forces who's only job is to provide, well, air defence. The Air Force on the other hand provides air policing, air defence at altitudes above the range of ground based SAMs and close air support on both land and sea, among other things. Considering I know your interests are in other subjects, I presume you "parachuted" into this article after the recent MiG-21 controversy. I strongly suggest that the next time you feel an urge to move an article, at least write a decent explanation on the talk page with appropriate sources to back it up. And by that, I mean something better than "more accurate title".--Saxum (talk) 21:41, 24 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You're absolutely right, I apologize.
For what its worth, wasn't actually me, but someone else on my computer. It was a kind of joke... considering our planes are probably in Africa by now :) -- Director (talk) 18:44, 25 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Air force renamed to Croatian Air Force, Air Defense dropped

Ona March 23rd, Croatian Parliament officially changed the name of Croatian Air Force and Air Defense by removing Air Defense from the name. So the official name is now only Croatian Air Force. The Title of the article should be changed to reflect that, as it is now inaccurate.

Media report in Croatian: https://dnevnik.hr/vijesti/hrvatska/sabor-u-petak-mijenja-svoj-poslovnik---511098.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.252.215.223 (talk) 18:09, 15 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

User Fox 52 is doing it again. He was warned, ignored to check his facts and deleted the talk

Croatian Air Force never operated Soko G-4, Soko J-22 Orao, Bell 205 and SA342 Gazelle. False facts and false claim of a source;

Retired Previous aircraft operated by the Air Force were the Soko G-4, Soko J-22 Orao, Antonov An-2, Antonov An-32, Mil Mi-24, Bell 205, Bell 212, MD 500, SA342 Gazelle helicopters[24] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.143.161.225 (talk) 18:47, 16 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Really what does this say? World Air Forces 1997 - FOX 52 (talk) 19:28, 16 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Your first source doesn't say anything [2] on that, other one you pulled just now [3] has question marks for G-4 and J-22, wrong data for MiG-21MF and wrong numbers and data for An-26, SA342 and Bell 205. Somebody confused Croatian Air Force with Yugoslav Air Force. Sources for my claims in English are [4], [5]. You can always search for actual facts on the official Croatian DoD site [6]. More accurate data and tables are at Croatian Wikipedia. As you're not a member of Croatian Air Force or a native Croatian speaker you'll have to do some digging, not just copy paste.

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