Talk:Redshift

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Gravitational redshift

Here is an example of Gravitational red-shift to help visualize Gravitational red-shift effects at the intergalactic scale. Using the simplest example of 2 galaxies of equal mass and having no motion relative between the two while ignoring all other effects for the moment, as light travels from the center of galaxy A to the center of Galaxy B, that light will be red-shifted until it reaches a point half way been the two galaxies where the G field effects exactly cancel. Note that the light then reaches some maximum red-shift. It will then begin to blue-shift until it reaches the center of galaxy B at which point it will have exactly the same frequency and wavelength as when it began its journey from Galaxy A, and this is because the two masses are equal and no other effects are considered.

Now, for the Milky Way galaxy, as observed on the earth, where the earth is on the outer rim of the galaxy spiral, and because most of the Milky Way galactic mass lies between the earth and the galactic center, then an observer on the earth will see some net red-shift but not the maximum. This will occur in all directions. Mass differences between galaxies will shift this one way or the other. Relative motion between galaxies will shift this one way or the other. Observational position within the galaxy will have its effect as well.

Suggestion to help the simpletons (We wave hello)

Just come from reading an article describing a discovery in terms of high red shifts.

As noted in the study, VST-ATLAS J158.6938-14.4211 (J158-14 for short) has a redshift of 6.07, while VST-ATLAS J332.8017-32.1036 (J332-32 for short) was found at a redshift of 6.32.

But since the great interest there was the immense estimated mass of the central black holes - in relation to time since Big Bang - I had hoped to come here to 'translate' the red shifts to time since Big Bang. No joy.

There are mentions of some example red shifts and sometimes what those particular numbers translate to as 'age'. But no simple table to relate red shift number to 'age'. A volunteered diagram at Highest redshifts gives approximate red shift numbers to apparent distance, but that has an uncertain translation to 'age'.

Could someone put together a bare table of red shift numbers to 'ages'. I'm thinking 6.0 is around 12.7-12.8 billion years, but gee, numbers like that make me woozy! :) Shenme (talk) 20:36, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Should say more about Arp's theory perhaps in historical section

Although this is no longer regarded as a valid theory it was back in the 1970s and 80s and I think of historical interest for that reason. When I was young, although his was a minority view it was scientifically respectable. The encyclopedia article expresses it accurately though of course we can't copy it - just to give an idea of the tone to aim for and it's historical interest. Also relevant today because people who are doing junk science sometimes cite his work as if it was currently valid as an objection to red shift. To explain his ideas briefly but also the observations that his theory was unable to explain would be very useful I think. [1] Robert Walker (talk) 04:41, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Arp's work doesn't belong in this article: it is very much WP:FRINGE. - Parejkoj (talk) 17:26, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Paths of possible progress in understanding redshift

Objecting to the Doppler "theory" of the very real Hubble Red shift, is that Doppler (relative velocity) has uncomfortable implications for the Universe. Doppler is very familiar, in light and other electromagnetic waves. Doppler shift is used in traffic speed regulation at airports and by traffic enforcement. It is familiar in sound waves, also, and although that is an entirely different medium, the principle is handy to proponents of the Big Bang theory since everybody is familiar with it. It is possibly necessary to deal with some formidable opposition. The Church objected to the "tired light" theory because, it held, that God would never create anything so mundane as "tired light"

Progress on a quantum theory of Hubble Red Shift is justifiable. Hubble himself believe that the Doppler shift is NOT the cause of the shift to longer wavelengths that he discovered. He had just got back from the war in Germany, and had witnessed considerable truth. He was over-ruled, by the prevailing authority, which, depending on common sense, was familiar to many. However, a quantum, and other more subtle and sophisticated theory is needed for the very real Hubble discovery. People are beginning to accept the idea, and that is the origin of the amusing "Big Bang Theory TV sitcom.

Investigation shows that the Plank realm of constants, including the action quantum h, the Planck Time, Planck Mass, and Planck Length, are particularly appropriate to thinking about the Hubble Red Shift.

These constants are very small, and they will have to be. There are two known constants in light, the speed of light, c, and the action quantum, h. Both are accurately known and valuable beyond description, throughout the solar system, and in the development of lasers, radio,tv and other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum. They are so constant that even God himself can be proud of them.

So are the constants in the Planck mathematics. Energy and momentum, and their conjugate dimensions, time and length, are components of the action quantum of light waves. These are not constants, They are the stuff that varies across the spectrum. All are well known dimensions.

In the light wave, the most reasonable idea I've come across is the idea that the energy of the quantum photon VERY slowly flows into the conjugate dimension of energy, which is time. The time within the wave is called the wave-time. Wave time is the inverse of frequency, nu. Wavelength is the inverse of the wave-number. The energy VERY slowly flows into ITS conjugate, wave-time, and momentum within the wave very slowly flows into ITS conjugate dimension, wave-time. Wave-time is the inverse of frequency. These quantities all take place in each cycle of the wave. Note that here, as is normal and familiar, the speed of light plays a role in that c's dimensions, L T-1, or kilometers/second, miles/second and so on, Dimensional analysis is a powerful tool in this research.

Note that the energy wave and the light wave appear to be 180 degrees, or half a cycle, out of phase with each other. This is familiar in radar, which often uses wave guides that rectangular in cross section.

SO, if you-all can find just what the diffusion term is, you will make a place in history for yourself. See Graham Woan's "Cambridge Handbook of Physics Formulas" for almost everything you need. Plus, read a lot about relativity.

SyntheticET (talk) 20:20, 31 August 2018 (UTC)