Talk:Rathore dynasty

Copyvio

ImpuMozhi: Please provide the URL from which the information in the copyvio was copied from. Otherwise you will have to revert. --BWD ^(talk) 03:25, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Definitive proof was provided. --BWD ^(talk) 04:31, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Lt Gen Thakur Nathusingh Rathore

He ensured that an Indian person was heading the Indian army by opposing the then Prime Minister Nehru who wanted a british officer to head "Independent" India's Army. He turned down the offer to become the First chief of Army of Independent India in favour of his senior Gen Cariappa out of respect for seniority. He had been recommended by outgoing british chief for the job and also by the then Defense minister Baldev Singh because of his exemplary record in the army. The current chief of Army VK Singh in his book talks at length about his exceptional courage, professionalism, Patriotism and military strategic talent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.97.215.181 (talk) 05:46, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Rathores ofRajasthan

There are well over a hundred thousand Rathores (or Rathurs) in Kashmir, and thousands of Kashmiri Rathores (or Rathurs) who migrated to Punjab or UP in past couple of centuries. Does someone have more details about them? How did they get to Kashmir? Are they all one group? Is the origin of Kashmiri Rathores (or Rathurs) seperate from Siyaji (the grandson of Jaichand)? What role did Jahangir's invasion of Kashmir play in the migration of Rajhastani Rathores to Kashmir?

Here is what I found about Kashmiri Rathores so far. I have been researching on Rathers of kashmir a lot and have made some very different conclusions and what i previously knew, so i want to put information on my comment with the correct information:

Kashmiri Rather is most likely not related to the rathore in india and pakistan. Rather in kashmiri means a warrior and rather in kashmir according to many families were descends of raiutpala and not related to Rathores of india and Pakistan. He was in service to the one of the rulers mentioned in Rajatarangini during the Loharas. Where as the rajput goths mentions Rathore of some rai chand. Sheikh nasserduin rather is not supported by many and khuhami seems to have made a mistake in his history.

Kashmiri Rathers are Rajputs. They used to be hindu, but now many of them are muslim. Sir Walter Lawrence has written in his book, Valley of Kashmir, that Rathurs are also one of those Shaikhs who converted from hindu Khashatris to islam. Chhatri, Khatri, and Khashatri are actually names of the same tribe, and they come from the preminent and marshall hindu race of Rajputs.

A book about Rajput tribes was published a few years ago by the name of, Rajput Gotain (Rajput Clans). It is written on page 15 of this book that "Janjua and Rathore are from the same family. These tribes are from the descendants of Jadu-Bansi Rajputs, which moved towards the salt mountain range after the death of Krishan Ji." Then on page 19 of the same book it is written that "The Rathores once conquered Bikaner and made the Bhattis run towards the plains of Punjab." Then on page 24 of the same book it is written that among the Rathores, Raja Mal Rathore was a very well known ruler. In the year 980 A.D. he emigrated from Jodhpur or Kannauj and established the settlement of Malot near Jhelum. One of Mal Rathore's sons was Joda, from whose name the word Janjua is derived. At one time the Janjua tribe ruled almost all the area near the Salt Mountains. But then a time came when the Gakhars came from the north and the Awans came from the west to push them out.

(note:With respect, I have researched this point and found this reference to be incorrect. Raja Mal's other sons, also founded Janjua clans in their areas, hence Janjua cannot be derived from Raja Joda. Also Raja Mal, though mentioned in the book as a Rathor prince, this is a phronetic mistake, as in Punjab, RaTHOR and THOAR are very similar sounding (the latter being ofcourse Tuar Rajputs), hence the named connection appears to wrongly attribute him to the Rathor. This is further confirmed since the Janjuas claim descent also from chandravanshi prince Arjun Pandava is compared successfully to the Tuar clan who also claims chandravanshi Arjun descent.)

In the same book on page 31 it is written that "This tribe (Rathore) is one of 36 Royal lines. It is from the Suraj-Bansi Rajputs. It's ancient head quarters was Kanauj. From there they spread to Marwara, Bikaner, and other locations."

The writer of Taareekh Gulshane Kashmir {History of the Garden of Kashmir} has also said that Raothur is a distorted form of the name Rathore, and has written that these people are Chhatri Rajputs.

Taareekh Kabeer Kashmir, on page 293, mentions a Khwaja Haider Raitore. It is written that he "was the student of Mullah Habib Mir Adal (during the reign of Alamgir a.k.a. Aurangzeb, Mughal Emperor from 1658-1707 A.D.). Khwaja Haider Raitore benefited from the knowledge of many of the islamic scholars of India during his travels through India." Khwaja Haider is mentioned as Raitore instead of Rathur in this history, but it is in reality a distorted form of Rathore.

Taareekh Hassan, while mentioning the tribes of Shaikhs, or the land owning segment of society, writes that these Kashmiri Rajput tribes (Magray, Daangar, Naatak, Tanteray, Daar, Butt, Lone, and Rathur) have been soldiers, and made up the bulk of the armies, during the time of the ancient Kashmiri hindu rajas.

The census of 1911 A.D. shows that the population of Rathores in Jammu and Kashmir was 33,951 people. Of these Rathores, 2,545 lived in the province of Jammu, and only 126 lived in frontier districts. The rest of the 31,280 Rathores lived in the valley of Kashmir proper. After 20 years, in 1931 A.D. their population in the state was 39,725 persons. Of these Rathores, 17,960 were women, and 21,725 were men. Meaning that in 20 years, the population of Rathores increased by 5,774 people in the state.

The conditions that forced muslims and pandits of various tribes to migrate to Punjab, Delhi, or Lucknow during the reign of the Sikhs and Pathaans, were the same conditions that forced These people (Rathores) to emigrate from their country (Kashmir). This tribe, along with other refugee Kashmiri tribes, thought it best to go with the times and search for better opportunities elsewhere. (In exile), due to higher education, trade, and employment, Rathores occupy high positions and are well off. A few prominent families are mentioned in chapter 5.

In Kashmir, the greater part of the Raothur tribe is found in villages, and know no other trade except agriculture.

From originally khuhamis history and copied by later authors:

A Rathore family which migrated from Kashmir to Punjab and bought agricultural land near Gujranwala in 1930. After the payment was made, some government official refused to transfer the deed in the Rathore's name. The official's claim was that the Kashmiri migrants are not farmers, and this land is designated for purely agricultural purposes. The Rathore family sued the government official in court and made the argument that Rathores are Kashmiri Rajputs who know only farming, therefore there is no chance of the family being anything else other than farmers. The tax collector and other officials claimed that the plaintiff is pretending to be a Rathore just to gain possession of the land, and in fact he is just a Kashmiri migrant, as listed in official tax papers. When the plaintiff brought 11 witnesses and much older documents proving his ethnicity, the case was decided in his favor. The judge wrote in his decision that since the plaintiff has proved he is a Kashmiri Rathore, there can be no question in his claim to being a farmer, and the land must be transfered in his name.

Note: This is about our family. My great grandfather and his family bought land near Gujranwala ( village name uppall and taphai)and had to go to Court for getting it alloted in their name. As before that Kashmiris settlers were considered non kashtkars. Our elders were known as Chaudries. My grand father's name ' Ch Muhammed Kharaitullah' mentioned in Fauq's book. But with all lands sold we dont use chaudry any more although other in our family still use that prefix. Nazar Rauf Rathore — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nazarrathore (talk • contribs) 11:03, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Most Kashmiri Rathores who migrated to Punjab and adopted agriculture as their profession are now called Chaudhry. The term Chaudhry is used in central and northern Punjab to refer to a large land owner or village chief. These migrants no longer use the Rathore name, and have completely melted into their adopted culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.165.91.224 (talk) 15:24, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I have read this in our family tree book that our great grand fathers migrated from Baramula afetr Kashmir was sold for one hundred and seventy five thousand rupees in 1856 under Amritsar Treaty and settled in a Mora Burj,a village near Rawalpindi.Most of them started agriculture but their progeny got well educated and opted for other fields.Still few families of Rathores are living there in Mora Burj and there mean of living is agriculture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Erathore (talk • contribs) 14:54, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Rathore/Rao Genealogy

That is one ugly table, and it doesn't seem to work. Have you considered making a graphic instead? pablo_hablo. 11:10, 8 April 2009 (UTC) "SHSHDARA ,BABERPUR GAV [DELHI]

                              KASHI RAM RATHOUR (JODHA RATHOUR) 

[(Present ROYAL in new delhi,SHAHDARA,VILLAGE BABBERPUR) LAL SINGH RATHOUR JIA CHAND RATHOUR JIA SINGH RATHOUR GOURAV RATHOUR PRATAP RSINGH RATHOUR SANDEEP RATHOUR

PRADEEP RATHOUR       RUDRANSH RATHOUR                               AKSHAT RATHOUR                              JOGANDER SINGH RATHOUR
HARSHIT RATHOUR       PAHALWAN AMAN RATHOUR                          ANKIT RATHOUR                                  
 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.74.97.57 (talk) 23:18, 6 February 2010 (UTC) 

Lists of names

Lists of names in this article should be sourced in accordance with WP:BLP. As there is no way of constantly maintaining linked articles, this applies to names which have a Wikipedia article as well as those that do not. Any name listed with no verifiable citations should be removed. Refer to WP:NLIST for guidance. Fæ (talk) 07:13, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

lohana and rathore

(As of 1947) EXTRACTS - As Published in “History of Hindus in Sind"

Author: Diwan Bherumal Mahirchand Advani

Published:   1946-1947

Translated and updated wherever possible by:

Narain Sobhraj Kimatrai

LOHANA: - Arorvanshi. Nukh: - Asarpota, Panditpota, Jobanota, Popat, Chhug, Thakral, Chhabria, Sejpal, Somaiya, Karya, Katar (Khatar), Mamotia, and Dhodheja etc

Mr. Anthovan states that according to the folklore, Lohana are Rathod Rajputs (Khatri). Raja Jaichand of Kanoj (Kanya Kabaj) tormented them and they could do nothing. They prayed to their Deity who told them that the following morning they should walk a mile or two in a certain direction till they reached an Iron Fort.

The Deity instructed the Rathods to take refuge in the Fort for sixteen days and leave thereafter. The Rathods would then be able to defeat their enemy. The Iron Fort would vanish on the twenty-first day and they were told to then construct a new Fort at that site. Having taken refuge in the Iron Fort, the Rathods changed their name to Lohana (Loha = Iron and Na = Of) and named all their Forts starting with Lo or La viz. Loh Gadah and Lahore. The Lohanas thereafter migrated to Multan and Sind. In the 13th century, some of them went to Kutch.

In the year 1194, Mohd. Ghori invaded and defeated Kanoj’s Raja Jaichand and murdered thousands of Hindus. The Lohanas and other Hindus out of fright and fear started serving the Muslim Masters. The author, Diwan Bherumal M. Advani, in his volume has opined that this was the start of Muslim domination in Sind.

The Lohana, though Khatri (warriors), thus transformed to Vaishas (traders). ACCORDING TO DEVOTEE OF GODESS HINGLAJMATA:jaichand rathod called ghori,he send treasure to ghori but 84 sardar of jaichand stole treasure to prevent ghori,they went to hinglajgadh,ma hinglaj send them to lohargadh after death of jaichand they came to marvar all are called marvadi loharana,lohana.lohana were also in prithirajs army.[[1]] census of india 1961[[2]] [[3]]rathore caste is founded by lohana.Bhavinkundaliya (talk) 18:54, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

lohana and rathore

(As of 1947) EXTRACTS - As Published in “History of Hindus in Sind"

Author: Diwan Bherumal Mahirchand Advani

Published:   1946-1947

Translated and updated wherever possible by:

Narain Sobhraj Kimatrai

LOHANA: - Arorvanshi. Nukh: - Asarpota, Panditpota, Jobanota, Popat, Chhug, Thakral, Chhabria, Sejpal, Somaiya, Karya, Katar (Khatar), Mamotia, and Dhodheja etc

Mr. Anthovan states that according to the folklore, Lohana are Rathod Rajputs (Khatri). Raja Jaichand of Kanoj (Kanya Kabaj) tormented them and they could do nothing. They prayed to their Deity who told them that the following morning they should walk a mile or two in a certain direction till they reached an Iron Fort.

The Deity instructed the Rathods to take refuge in the Fort for sixteen days and leave thereafter. The Rathods would then be able to defeat their enemy. The Iron Fort would vanish on the twenty-first day and they were told to then construct a new Fort at that site. Having taken refuge in the Iron Fort, the Rathods changed their name to Lohana (Loha = Iron and Na = Of) and named all their Forts starting with Lo or La viz. Loh Gadah and Lahore. The Lohanas thereafter migrated to Multan and Sind. In the 13th century, some of them went to Kutch.

In the year 1194, Mohd. Ghori invaded and defeated Kanoj’s Raja Jaichand and murdered thousands of Hindus. The Lohanas and other Hindus out of fright and fear started serving the Muslim Masters. The author, Diwan Bherumal M. Advani, in his volume has opined that this was the start of Muslim domination in Sind.

The Lohana, though Khatri (warriors), thus transformed to Vaishas (traders). ACCORDING TO DEVOTEE OF GODESS HINGLAJMATA:jaichand rathod called ghori,he send treasure to ghori but 84 sardar of jaichand stole treasure to prevent ghori,they went to hinglajgadh,ma hinglaj send them to lohargadh after death of jaichand they came to marvar all are called marvadi loharana,lohana.lohana were also in prithirajs army. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.47.117.53 (talk) 12:13, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

References

CE

....done. Bddmagic (talk) 03:48, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Recover old info

Cant we put the old info that was first posted??because this article is completely empty. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.195.97.205 (talk) 16:14, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

We may only include information which is [[WP:|verifiable]] in reliable sources. It is always better to have no information than to have information that we can't verify. Qwyrxian (talk) 22:59, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Pronounciation of name

I also asked this question at Talk:Rowdy_Rathore#Pronounciation_of_name

When many Indian languages are transcribed into roman letters, the letter H is used to strengthen a consonant (e.g. Buddha vs Budda; Thali vs Tali; Abhishek vs Abishek; etc). That leads to an ambiguity here: is this pronounced,

• as "rat-ORE," with a hard T,
• as "wrath-ORE," with a the TH-fricative?
• I assume it's not pronounced "rat-whore..."

Thanks, 128.112.139.195 (talk) 17:15, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

It is pronounced "Ra-Thor".--Dayumdropper (talk) 20:39, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Article needs to be fleshed out

Come on, surely someone knows a lot more about this topic than is present on the article? I'm interested in the etymology of the name 'Rathore' and the demographics of people known to have this name. In particular I'm trying to find out about Muslims with the name 'Rathore' but have been able to locate very little online. Any pointers? --Dayumdropper (talk) 20:52, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

The problem isn't about "knowing more", it's that people don't have reliable sources to verify what they think they know. It's very important that we only add verifiable info to Wikipedia articles; and the truth is that reliable sources on names are very hard to come by. Qwyrxian (talk) 23:33, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

That's precisely why I didn't add what extra info I do know on this and other topics. I do not have the means to verify them. Tell me, is there such low existance of verifiable sources on Indian names? Not that I promote them, but sources in previous iterations of this article did feature information cited by various online sources. These were mainly from Indians. Yet when a British historian publishing a book through Oxford writes a dubious opinion on say, an esoteric community or tradition in Arabia, it is presented as near fact? That's just sad. --Dayumdropper (talk) 20:04, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Well, something published by Oxford already goes a long way towards being more than a dubious opinion, but, of course, it varies. Online sources are required to meet WP:RS the same as print sources; the vast majority don't, since the vast majority don't have an editorial team with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy, which is the quick nutshell summary of WP:RS. As to them being written by Indians, that makes them no better or worse in any way; being a member of a group does not make one more likely to produce reliable information about that group. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:22, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Rathore are of Sindhi origin

RAthore are of Sindhi origin--Jogi don (talk) 11:16, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Really? Do you have a reliable source for that? - Sitush (talk) 11:23, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Dhadhal branche of rathore clan

Dhadhal(hindi:धाधल) is a branche of rathore.it was founded by dhadhal ji rathore(son of kalu ji rathore of jodhpur state).this clan is found in Kathiyawar rigion.-Jayveerwala (talk) 08:01, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Discussion of a citation

I have discussed about a certain citation that is being used. However there is no proper mention of Koli's being called Rathores. The rest can be seen as explained by utcursch.

Hi, I have tried reverting several attempts of this user on the "Rathore" article. He is using a religious book as a reference and the book itself talks more about the intermarrying of Koli's and Rajputs rather than calling them Koli's. Can you check once. Thanks.

Gutriel (talk) 09:22, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

References

@Gutriel: The source seems to be fine, since it's a scholarly book published by Oxford University Press. But you're right - the book doesn't state that Rathore is a clan of Koli people - it talks of certain Koli sub-groups that claim Rajput descent, and states that one of the so-called "Rajput Koli Thakordas" are the Rathods of Ghanti and Vaghpur. These people presumably claim descent from Rathod Rajputs. utcursch | talk 14:14, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Gutriel (talk) 05:20, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure what is going on here. Has Gutriel copied the above from the talk page of Utcursch? And am I right in thinking this means we should remove the statement about Kolis? - Sitush (talk) 06:27, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

I am still waiting for someone to explain. - Sitush (talk) 20:18, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Looks like the statement has already been removed. utcursch | talk 19:28, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Ancestry Claims

The ancestry claims should be retained on the page, as it is a central part of Rajput identity. Rajput means descendants of a king, so the page should mention who the Rathores claim to descend from. However, it should also include the historical validity of such claims to prevent caste promotion.Chariotrider555 (talk) 06:13, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Nonsense where does your sources specifically mention rathores? If not then dont copy paste this text in everysingle clan page all Rajputs are now same Sungpeshwe9 (talk) 04:29, 9 December 2020 (UTC)