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Talk:Marilyn Manson

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by NotAbuser (talk | contribs) at 12:27, 2 February 2021 (→‎Semi-protected edit request on 2 February 2021: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Sources

Goth metal

I added the genre "goth metal" because they are listed on the "list of goth metal bands" page with a citation. The Mo-Ja'al (talk) 20:02, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Manson’s second marriage

He married Lindsay Usich in the spring of 2020, in a private ceremony. She later confirmed it with a picture she took of him wearing his wedding band. MansonGirl15 (talk) 14:30, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

early life

Marilyn Manson confessed that he had Polish-German roots thanks to his father's family and the same you can read in his book: The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.2.7.80 (talk) 01:48, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

WP:UNDUE

I believe, as the story is developing, the inclusion of the allegations of abuse in the lede are currently WP:UNDUE for now. I held back from reverting Sdkb's edit in favour of generating discussion. CaffeinAddict (talk) 21:40, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

CaffeinAddict, thanks for starting discussion. To elaborate a bit on my edit summary, the general pattern I've observed at other pages of men accused of sexual misconduct is that, when the allegations are severe and well-substantiated, they almost always end up in the person's lead, whereas when they're less severe or less well substantiated, the result is more variable. In this case, there are tons of substantiating factors: multiple women coming forward, a long history of them talking about their experience anonymously or disclosing to friends, statements from Manson himself, etc. And the allegations are of severe psychological and sexual abuse, not just sexist remarks or uncomfortable shoulder touching. I don't want to WP:CRYSTALBALL anything, but it seems all but certain that this will affect his reputation in a way lasting enough to warrant mention in the lead. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 22:14, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with leaving it out of the lead—for now. The story is still on-going. Wikipedia is not an active news source, we're here to summary style describe long-term events. I'm also concerned about the tabloid-ish tone of the "Abuse allegations" section. Per WP:BLP, we need to be very careful about how we describe on-going issues. Despite protestations by above user, these claims are not "substantiated". Suggest everyone source facts without any editorializing. Homeostasis07 (talk/contributions) 00:56, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The allegations do not go into detail on the severity of the abuse, with only one anecdotal corroboration from the former employee. This could range from "bad relationship" to sexual, physical, mental abuse etc. My proposal would be to keep the section in personal life, adding updates as it develops, before deciding whether the mention in the lede is warranted which is supposed to be a summary of the artist's life and major life events. I would point to Johnny Depp as an example of having an extensive section on his relationship with Amber Heard, none of which mentions the abuse allegations in the lede. Also a story which shifted in tone, severity and fault over the course of it's news cycle. Homeostasis07 is 100% correct - wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS. CaffeinAddict (talk) 01:56, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I completely agree with all this. Suggest Sdkb self-revert until consensus is reached here for inclusion in the lead. Homeostasis07 (talk/contributions) 02:05, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I went ahead and made at WP:BOLD edit and removed the information from the lede, it was being added to and bloating. We should really be following the WP:BLP rules when it comes to the information in the article. It cannot be WP:Libel. CaffeinAddict (talk) 03:58, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
CaffeinAddict, I think this is the right decision for the minute. If there is sustained coverage for Manson's physical and sexual abuse charges, and it leads to him being disgraced in a manner akin to Gary Glitter, that would be the time to put it in the lead. But Wikipedia is not a crystal ball so we can't do it at this time. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:31, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

TV Show appearance

Starred on Season 3 Episodes 1 and 4 of American Gods on Starz. Nrd0527 (talk) 22:30, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 2 February 2021

Remove this man from the world wide web please. NotAbuser (talk) 12:27, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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