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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 2601:199:c201:fd70::3d80 (talk) at 02:35, 24 February 2022 (→Wellington City or Wellington Metropolitan Area?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Urban area

The current wording that Wellington is the country's second most populated urban area, which cites Statistics NZ, is incorrect.

As is being discussed elsewhere, under the agency's official SSGA18 statistical standard, the Christchurch urban area is significantly more populated. At the very least, the link to Statistics NZ should be removed, as the page it links to directly contradicts what is being said - none of the population data it displays show Wellington to be the second most populous urban area. Comingupcharlienz (talk) 00:55, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion elsewhere is WP:NZWNB#Second-biggest city, and is certainly relevant for people following this article.-gadfium 04:11, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Apart from the regrettable fact that the article on Wellington now contradicts the article on Christchurch, I would like to note that “second-most” is a compound attribute and needs to be hyphenated. Unfortunately, the current level of protections means I can't do that. Blur4760 (talk) 23:48, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please be very careful here, the two articles do not contradict each other - Christchurch is the second biggest city in New Zealand as stated in that article. The four contiguous cities that make up Wellington, as clearly described in this article, add up to more than the Christchurch total, that is why it says urban area and not city. There appears to have been changes to the way Statistics NZ have defined their definition of "Urban Area" this definition is not necessarily the definition that is in common use throughout New Zealand which is what should be being used on Wikipedia. It is probable that the Wellington article and how it deals with the multiple definitions of "Wellington" can be improved and it should be - but any "my city is bigger than your city" judgements should be avoided. Andrewgprout (talk) 01:31, 17 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've hyphenated second-most in the lead.-gadfium 02:27, 17 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for correcting the grammar. For what it's worth, the Christchurch article literally states that "The Christchurch urban area at 377,200 is the second-largest in the country by population, after Auckland." in its "Demographics" section and I did not make any "my city is bigger than yours claim", so I think I applied the necessary standard of care. Of course, in the meantime, somebody went ahead and changed the introduction of the Christchurch article without changing the Demographics section, and now that article is protected too whilst being self-contradictory. Blur4760 (talk) 23:31, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pōneke

Wellington is also (more recently?) commonly referred to as Pōneke throughout government-funded organisations (1, 2, 3) and in news articles (4). Given the common use I feel it would be worth adding this to the introductory (?) text, but I'm not 100% sure how to go about it (without implying it's considered the official Māori name) — would the following be too bulky?

Wellington (Māori: Te Whanganui-a-Tara [tɛ ˈfaŋanʉi a taɾa], also commonly referred to as Pōneke) is the capital city of New Zealand.

Pseudomugil (talk) 02:55, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is Pōneke used more than both Te Whanganui-a-Tara and Te-Upoko-o-te-Ika-a-Māui? If so, I say replace it. Alternatively, to avoid bulk, just append it as or Pōneke. — HTGS (talk) 01:46, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I went ahead and added HTGS's less bulky suggestion as part of my recent edit --Radicuil (talk) 12:19, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wellington City or Wellington Metropolitan Area?

This article seems to me to be confused as to whether it is really meant to be about the Wellington Metropolitan Area or about Wellington city.

The title merely says "Wellington", and it is not clarified to which is directed to within the first paragraph.

In the info box it lists the mayor, flag & coat of arms for the Wellington City Council. These do not apply to the other cities in the Wellington Metropolitan Area, with Porirua, Lower Hutt & Upper Hutt each having their own mayors, flags & coat of arms. There is no collective local body or mayor representing the whole of the Wellington Metropolitan area.

As such, the inclusion of these in the info box seem to imply that the page is directed to Wellington City.

However, the same info box also lists Porirua, Lower Hutt & Upper Hutt as parts of "Wellington", along with including electorates & MPs that cover these areas but not that of Wellington City.

Similar confusion appears in the article itself. For example, while the 3rd paragraph of the introduction mentions Pātaka (in Porirua) and the Dowse (in Lower Hutt), in the "Museums and cultural institutions" only institutions within Wellington city are mentioned. Further, almost all, if not all (a couple places I don't recognise), of the photographs in the article are of places in Wellington city.

I therefore think it would probably be better if the information on this page was split into two separate appropriately named pages - one for the "Wellington Metropolitan Area", and one for "Wellington City".

Potentially any "Wellington City" page could be merged with the already existing Wellington City Council page, unless having a separate page for that is considered useful. (I note that none of Porirua, Lower Hutt or Upper Hutt appear to have separate pages for their councils)

Nāku noa, nā

--Radicuil (talk) 11:04, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Radicuil, thanks for bringing that up. The scope should be for the city. Feel free to clarify that in the lead and remove content that is out of scope. If editors want a further article for the metropolitan area they can write one. Schwede66 16:58, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, Radicuil, that is well observed. The problem you highlight goes well beyond Wellington or even New Zealand. A major cause of this is the inability to define a city's boundaries which makes it difficult to write about the city. A local government area can, however, be defined and if that LG area has the same name as the city the easy trap to fall in to is to define the city as the LG area. Just consider, for example, if the Wellington local government area was called Remutaka Council, and then consider if the wiki article would be written in exactly the same way: I doubt it. The best solution I have come up with is for Wikipedia articles about places to incorporate a much clearer section on local government. Local govt usually gets squeezed in somewhere in the history section or comprises a large table of all the current local councillors and mayor. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 22:01, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm still relatively new to editing so I'm not 100% confident about making all the necessary changes myself, but I can try to give it a go --Radicuil (talk) 09:30, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You can't break the 'pedia! If you are unsure about anything, put a note in the edit summary and somebody will check your edit. Or ask here. Schwede66 09:47, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So, I had a go. I'm sure it's not perfect and that I've probably missed some stuff. Hopefully other people can also have a go at tidying some of it up. As I noted on my edit, for now I have just moved some of the stuff about the wider metropolitan area into it's own section. --Radicuil (talk) 12:15, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I see there is alot going on here - I suspect trying to have one article that covers both Wellington City and Wellington in general (unfortunately not the same as the Region as that is bigger than what is mostly considered Wellington) is bound to cause issues. The idea of splitting the article into one just for the City named Wellington and one for the constituent cities that make up Wellington is to my mind very sound. Andrewgprout (talk) 01:38, 9 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

intl- vs national-English usage

Every dialect (of English — the only language I can responsibly comment on) has equally valid authority to establish its own dialectal-style standard, and I support that (inevitable!) pattern. I edited a section for style issues, and followed a principle that I think is sound and long established here (en:wp): that there is de facto a rough standard of intl-English usage, whether best described as

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