Talk:Rose West/Archive 1

Archive 1

Doubts about guilt

I do feel that this page needs to be edited to refelect the very considerable doubts surrounding Rosemary West's guilt. A great deal has been written about the complete lack of evidence linking her to the murders at Cromwell Street and her conviction seems to be based on little more than the idea that "She Must Have Known" (see Brian Masters' 1996 book). She was really only put on trial at all because the main suspect (Fred West) committed suicide before he could be convicted. The police had never intended to prosecute her and clearly only did so because of the enormous public appetite for retribution fed by overwhelming and highly prejudicial media coverage. There can be few more blatant and high profile miscarriages of justice than this in British legal history.

Yes, I couldn't agree more. The use of "similar fact" evidence was plain wrong and this proved enormously powerful in misdirecting the jury. Apparently Justice Mantell was not corrected at the time! She was not even charged with murder at the start of the process; only when Fred killed himself.

Crazy really.84.64.183.94 11:14, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I thought the Doubt section was very POV myself, but as no one else seems to have found it objectionable, I'm leaving it alone. I am removing "though it is possible that the Wests may have murdered men and boys as well." Sure, it's possible. Anything is possible. However, no evidence or sources are presented to indicate that this is likely.24.131.12.228 08:19, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Rose West was arrested and charged jointly for the murders BEFORE Fred West's suicide. Why else was she on remand at the time of his death! This simple fact blows a hole in the hypnosis that Rose was a scapegoat for her husband's crimes. Personally, I think this whole article has been scewed by the dubious credibility of the Brian Masters book. --Ade myers 15:31, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

www.rotten.com

I feel the addition of www.rotten.com as a link is totally unjustworthy and frankly, sickening, hence my removal of it. --Porterjoh 21:35, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Inconsistency in article

There is an inconsistancy in the article at the start it states that Rose West was involved in the killing of Fred Wests first wife; later in the article it states that she was involved in only ten murders not twelve one of the other two being Fred Wests first wife.

Text: Convicted of ten murders, including her daughter Heather, stepdaughter Charmaine and her husband and fellow serial killer Fred West's first wife, and a series of sexual assaults between 1969 and 1994.

Later on (other victims) Text: Rose West was convicted of ten murders and the police have concluded that her late husband Fred murdered a total of twelve, but Rose played no part in the first two murders. Fred West killed Ann McFall alone in 1967 and his first wife in August 1971.

I agree. There's also the inconsistency of the authoratative assertions about her sexuality and the reasons for the abductions/murders (her satisfaction), and the later sections casting doubt on the validity of her conviction. IMO if assertions such as those made early on are to stand, they must be backed up by a reliable source. For instance, I don't think people's sexual orientation should be included unless there is very good evidence (preferably a statement by the individual), and the stuff about her offspring being the product of soliciting black men also needs to be backed up. Anchoress 10:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

GazMan7

I have no special knowledge of the activities of therse people BUT GazMan7 claims that this sort of 'fact' is not allowed on the University of Bedfordshire site, so why is he using it here. So GazMan7, how abouts some honesty and consistency?

If you care to join and log in then maybe you would have more credability. Please stop vandalising articles. GazMan7 11:11, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I see no reason for you to claim credibility. You vandalise the University of Bedfordshir's page by deleting many of the less favorable comments. Gazman7 is hardly more informative than an ip address and is in many respects less informative!

This is not the talk page for Uni of Bedfordshire. If you check the talk page discussion, on that page you will see why the various comments were deleted. 1 they were unencyclopedic, 2 they breached copyright. Also each time you (presumably Alfred) revert the details of student numbers, that is vandalism. If you check my contributions you will see that i edit many different articles rather than vandalise a couple. Please stop.GazMan7 09:17, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 04:01, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Bisexual

Tonight's edition of documentary series Martina Cole's Lady Killers was about Rose West. It was stated in the programme that Rose was bisexual. Is that sufficient evidence for her bisexuality to be included in the article, and for LGBT and bi categories to be added? Werdnawerdna (talk) 21:53, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

You could use the same reference as is used here, but if the TV programme appears to have been researched properly and isn't presented in tabloid style, that should also be adequate. --Rodhullandemu 21:58, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Naming their children

The names and details of their children are not shown with accompanying citations and should their details really be given to this degree when they are not central to the article.Nirame (talk) 02:48, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Resolved

 – Names now removed. -- Scil100 (talk) 11:14, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Her father

Was her father ever convicted of anything? It says here he abused her as a child, had sex with her frequently when she was an adult, and he had sex with Fred's (underage?) daughter. Surely he didn't get away with all that once it was publicly known? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.174.108.74 (talk) 17:22, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Blending pages of Mr and Mrs West together

not sure if putting these pages together is a good idea but it would be a lot easier for the reader dont you think? Delighted eyes (talk) 14:14, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Citation

citation for children with clients will this photo of tara west do? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2033758/Fred-West-drama-Appropriate-Adult-dangerous-nonsense.html

Bisexual

Is there a reliable source showing she identifies as Bisexual. The book cited only mentions a Sun newspaper article"Evil Rose becomes slimline sex siren for her lesbian jail.." To be included in the LGBT doesnt the person need to be shown describing themselves as such?RafikiSykes (talk) 14:49, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Number of victims?

"Fred West is known to have carried out 11 murders. Rosemary West had no involvement in the first two." But the Fred West article lists 11 victims, the first of which is Charmaine, allegedly killed by Rose alone. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:24, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Whole life tariff

The section on whole life tarrif review should be removed as per this edit [1]. In today's news is the fact that whole life tariffs remain legal in the UK. There is therefore no need for an out of date section that was unsourced and says a review will happen that will not. Lineslarge (talk) 18:54, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

I would like find a source for the first ruling and then to rewrite the paragraph to tell the whole story of how this issue affects the West case. However I am heading into a meeting and will be unable to make the edits until later today. If you could leave the article as is for now, I will make these changes later today. —    Bill W.    (Talk)  (Contrib)  — 19:03, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Are you going to add that section to the pages of each of the 53 people who have a whole life sentence? I think that would be excessive. I agree that the content you are proposing should be in the encyclopaedia but think a better place would be Whole life tariff. Would that be acceptable? Lineslarge (talk) 19:27, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Sounds good considering there is already a link to that article in this one. I've already removed the passage we've been talking about. Thanks for the discussion. —    Bill W.    (Talk)  (Contrib)  — 14:40, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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