Jump to content

Talk:Shiv Sena (1966–2022)

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by D4iNa4 (talk | contribs) at 12:38, 12 July 2022 (→RfC about BJP minister's statement on ditching Shiv Sena). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

BJP alliance

Later in March 2020, BJP admitted deceiving Shiv Sena by not keeping its pre-poll promise of equal power sharing including Chief Minister (CM)'s post. The Former Finance Minister and senior BJP leader Sudhir Mungantiwar while speaking in a debate in the state assembly stated, "We did deceive the Shiv Sena".[1]

References

  1. ^ "Mumbai: Sudhir Mungantiwar is candid, says BJP deceived Shiv Sena". Free Press Journal. Retrieved 24 June 2022.

This content is relevant to the article. please dont remove. Venkat TL (talk) 07:16, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See the entire discussion at Talk:2022_Maharashtra_political_crisis#Undue_and_subjective_addition. Bypassing WP:BRD under the guise of "Add content from the cited reference" in completely unacceptable. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 08:42, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
2 things should be clear to you.
(1) There is no such consensus to not add it there. Discussion is not over.
(2) Whatever may be the final consensus at the end of the discussion need not apply to all pages of wikipedia. Venkat TL (talk) 09:03, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
1)You need to read WP:ONUS. 2) When the exact same topic is under discussion at a related page with much higher participation and you clearly know of it, you are still reinstating content for the fourth time against consensus. Do not repeat this. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 16:32, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@CapnJackSp I have waited for a week patiently for you to think of a reason and respond. You have not replied hence WP:BRD was set once again. The scope of both pages are different, What is your objection for adding it here. Venkat TL (talk) 17:17, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You need to stop pretending as if this strange claim from you wasn't already debunked here. You also need to stop with what is obvious to anyone. Your WP:OR starting with the sentence that "BJP admitted..." as if there was a unanimous statement from BJP but one politician. Even then you provided wrong translation and very small cherrypicked quote. To say that you don't want to accept consensus against this POV pushing is not gonna make sense but only waste more time. Dympies (talk) 17:52, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
First of all you need to mind your language. Second you need to click and read the source. Nothing has been debunked just I dont like it type comments. --Venkat TL (talk) 18:18, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In a rare admission of guilt the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) for the first time has openly admitted that it has deceived Shiv Sena by not keeping pre-poll promise of equal sharing of power including CM's post in Maharashtra after the assembly results. Former Finance Minister and senior BJP leader Sudhir Mungantiwar made the admission in the state assembly while speaking in a debate in the state assembly. "We did deceive the Shiv Sena. However, you (Shiv Sena) benefited because of BJP's mistake (and formed the government joining hands with NCP and Congress)". https://www.freepressjournal.in/mumbai/mumbai-sudhir-mungantiwar-is-candid-says-bjp-deceived-shiv-sena

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Venkat TL (talk • contribs) 18:18, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why I am not supposed to mention your WP:OR and mistranslation over which you have been already notified earlier?[1] Let me repeat my 1st most comment on this issue which I made 2 weeks ago[2] because I don't want onlookers to think that you haven't been already told about this before: "The quotation from the BJP politician is clearly WP:UNDUE. It will only invite the inclusion of more opinions from all sides. I also add that the translation is highly subjective because The Hindu translated it as "Yes, we ditched the Shiv Sena, but don’t try to take advantage of our mistake. One day we will rectify it." Everyone knows that "ditched" is not the same as "deceived"." Dympies (talk) 01:47, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What is WP:OR in this quote? Venkat TL (talk) 07:57, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

New Page

Should a new page with the title 'Shivsena (Rebel)' be created after suspension of Sindhe and the rebel MLAs? (Don't count me as a mere IP account. Do have a registered account myself). Please co-operate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.142.81.1 (talk) 18:44, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Add information about the 2022 rebellion

Kindly include information about the 2022 rebellion, rebels and the government formation with BJP on this page in short. Anyone who wants to know more in detail can be redirected to the page 2022 Maharashtra political crisis TheOneRiding (talk) 16:38, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

RfC about BJP minister's statement on ditching Shiv Sena

Should the section on Alliance with the Bharatiya Janata Party, include the line below as shown in Special:Diff/1096769877. --Venkat TL (talk) 11:01, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Later in March 2020, BJP admitted deceiving Shiv Sena by not keeping its pre-poll promise of equal power sharing including Chief Minister's post. The Former Finance Minister and senior BJP leader Sudhir Mungantiwar while speaking in a debate in the state assembly stated, "We did deceive the Shiv Sena".[1]

References

  1. ^ "Mumbai: Sudhir Mungantiwar is candid, says BJP deceived Shiv Sena". Free Press Journal. 13 March 2020.
Background
There was a pre-election agreement on power sharing between BJP and Shiv Sena. After election, differences erupted and Shiv Sena accused BJP of not holding its side of the deal. The BJP - Shiv Sena alliance broke after this.
Quote from the source

In a rare admission of guilt the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) for the first time has openly admitted that it has deceived Shiv Sena by not keeping pre-poll promise of equal sharing of power including CM's post in Maharashtra after the assembly results. Former Finance Minister and senior BJP leader Sudhir Mungantiwar made the admission in the state assembly while speaking in a debate in the state assembly. "We did deceive the Shiv Sena. However, you (Shiv Sena) benefited because of BJP's mistake (and formed the government joining hands with NCP and Congress)".

- "Mumbai: Sudhir Mungantiwar is candid, says BJP deceived Shiv Sena". Free Press Journal.

Mungantiwar on Thursday made a startling acknowledgmentin the Maharashtra Assembly, saying his party had "ditched" the one-time ally Shiv Sena and termed it as a "mistake" which will be rectified one day. [...] Looking towards the treasury benches, Mungantiwar said the "chief ministeris your friend for three months, but our relationsdate back 30 years ago", highlighting the long- standing BJP-Sena ties. To which, some membersfrom the treasury benches commented "still you ditched them". "Yes, we ditched the Shiv Sena, but don'ttry to take advantage of our mistake. One day we will rectifyit," said Mungantiwar.

"BJP "ditched" Shiv Sena, it was a "mistake": Mungantiwar". Business Standard India. Press Trust of India. 12 March 2020.

Former State finance minister and senior Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) leader Sudhir Munganitwar created a flutter in the Assembly on Thursday by accepting that his party had “fooled” Shiv Sena in the power game after the 2019 Assembly elections. [...] Looking towards the treasury benches, Mr. Mungantiwar said the “chief minister is your friend for three months, but our relation dates back 30 years,” highlighting the long- standing BJP-Sena ties. To this, some members from the treasury benches commented “still you ditched them”. “Yes, we ditched the Shiv Sena, but don’t try to take advantage of our mistake. One day we will rectify it,” said Mr. Mungantiwar.

Deshpande, Alok (12 March 2020). "Ditching Shiv Sena was a mistake: Mungantiwar". The Hindu.

“The meeting quorum agreed as per what Amit Shah ji [BJP president] had promised under the 50:50 formula, both allies should get a chance to run the government for two-and-a-half years each. The Shiv Sena must also have a Chief Minister of its own. Party president Uddhav ji should get this assurance in writing from the BJP,"

- Vyas, Sharad (26 October 2019). "Maharashtra Assembly election 2019: Sena's MLAs-elect seek BJP's written promise". The Hindu.
Survey
  • Support The content is reliably sourced and crucial for proper understanding of the topic. There was a pre-election agreement, One side reneged on the promise after election. Both blamed each other, later BJP Minister admitted on the floor of the assembly. So this is a crucial piece of information, an admission. Strangely due to POV reasons, this relevant information is being prevented from adding into the article by throwing all kinds of tantrums and ad hominem to stonewall. This is being done to the detriment of the article and reader, forcing me to start this RfC. Venkat TL (talk) 11:01, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • It seems like this might be a "lost in translation" situation according to Talk:2022_Maharashtra_political_crisis#Undue_and_subjective_addition. Further, I have no idea what CM stands for so that should be spelled out. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 17:12, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
CM means Chief Minister, the head of the executive in the provincial government of the state of Maharashtra. If there is anything more you need clarification, please ask.Venkat TL (talk) 17:21, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: No opinion on whether to include this, but if it is included, it should be attributed only to Mungantiwar. The source doesn't indicate that this was an official statement issued by the party; it looks like it was Mungantiwar speaking off the cuff. Maybe Later in March 2020, former finance minister and senior BJP leader Sudhir Mungantiwar said that BJP had deceived Shiv Sena by not keeping its pre-poll promise of equal power sharing including Chief Minister's post. Again, I'm neutral on whether to include, but if it is included, I think this phrasing would be better than what's proposed above. Over at Talk:2022 Maharashtra political crisis#Undue and subjective addition, some users have argued that "deceived" is a mistranslation; I'm not equipped to weigh in on that. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 20:48, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Mx. Granger I have no objection if his name is added a second time as you have proposed. Venkat TL (talk) 07:13, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose WP:OR starting with the sentence that "BJP admitted..." as if there was a unanimous statement from BJP but one politician. Even then you provided wrong translation and very small cherrypicked quote because The Hindu translated it as "Yes, we ditched the Shiv Sena, but don’t try to take advantage of our mistake. One day we will rectify it." Everyone knows that "ditched" is not the same as "deceived"." It is best not to include this. Dympies (talk) 11:53, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Per WP:UNDUE. It hasn't been described why this quote is important. Even if the issue over translation was resolved, which I don't see ever happened, we should avoid labeling one person's view as that of entire party. Also per WP:NOTNEWS, I don't support addition of this single statement that isn't getting frequent coverage. D4iNa4 (talk) 12:38, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Shiv_Sena_(1966–2022)&oldid=1097742060"