Talk:Bridget (Guilty Gear)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 September 2022

Re-add the following.

, although the Guilty Gear fanbase remained split on the perceived changing of an iconic character in otokonoko subculture into a girl.

Sankaku Complex is just as reliable a source as Fanbyte; if you think about it, the articles published on Fanbyte are authored by independent contractors that are not directly employed by Fanbyte and therefore, one can conclude that Fanbyte also distributes user generated content. 174.247.251.230 (talk) 21:32, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: Neither Sanaku Complex nor Popgeeks appear to be reliable sources. If you believe they are reliable sources, then please open a discussion at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard or the WikiProject Video games/Sources talk page to establish their reliability first.

If those sources are found to be reliable as a result of that discussion, you can then return here to establish consensus for this edit before making another edit request relating to this content. Sideswipe9th (talk) 22:50, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 September 2022 (2)

Please edit the Russian page to reflect Bridget's sex. The template very clearly says sex (пол) , it DOES NOT say gender( жанр)

Either change it to say пол:Мужчина, or take an even more drastic measure and alter the template to refer to the gender жанр:Женщина

It was asked on the Russian talk page, but an admin puppet account removed the discussion. 174.247.251.230 (talk) 22:38, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: This talk page is for discussion about the English language version of Bridget (Guilty Gear), and this is unfortunately not the correct venue for making edit requests on the Russian Wikipedia. The correct venue to make such a request at ru:Обсуждение:Бриджет_(Guilty_Gear), and if your edit request is being removed at that talk page, then you may wish to look into the dispute resolution mechanism elsewhere on that Wiki. Sideswipe9th (talk) 22:44, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

As a Russian Wiki editor I'm going to point out that this editor also used an incorrect translation of the word, «ru:жанр» which means genre, while the correct translation would be «ru:гендер» which does mean gender, and it is present in the template. This should be an obvious example of his "mastery" of the Russian language. My only further response to that, if this anonymous editor will continue flinging out insults, it will only result in him being added to local list of LTAs and the article being permanently edit-protected. So again I would advise against bringing the western-related culture war into the Russian language, which has already settled the issue of sex/gender distinction aaaages ago. That's it. --Sleeps-Darkly (talk) 05:31, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Gender "female" should be removed

Gender female is to only be used if it is not obvious that they are female. As Bridget looks, sounds and behaves like a woman, the field "Gender: Female" is not needed.

If you look at every other Guilty Gear character, you will see that their gender is not mentioned in the template and that the template says the following "The gender of the character. Use only if not obvious."

---

And to the New Zealander who's first tongue isn't even Russian, English isn't mine either so «es:género» (Genus/Gender) does, in fact, translate to «ru:жанр» so you're wrong there. You also shouldn't be insulting other editors, it doesn't matter whether they're logged in or no.

I do not consent to my PI address being made public, as it is classified as IPI — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.247.240.233 (talk • contribs) 16:21, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Based on past discussions, listed above and in the archives for this talk page, there is a consensus based on reliable sources and statements by the game's developers that Bridget's gender is female. If you wish to challenge this consensus, please review the past discussions and provide reliable, secondary sources that support the changes you wish to make. Thank you. Sideswipe9th (talk) 16:42, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Exactly! Bridget looks like a female, Bridget dresses like a female, Bridget acts like a female, Bridget sounds like a female and the developers have stated that Bridget is female.

With that consensus, it is obvious that Bridget is female. As it is obvious, the field in the infobox is not necessary.

"The gender of the character. Use only if not obvious."

Again, as it is obvious that Bridget is female, the field in the infobox is hundred by hundred not necessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.247.240.233 (talk) 16:54, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

remove "Gender:Female" from the infobox, as the specific field should only be used if the gender is not obvious.

With both in-universe and real world evidence pointing to Bridget being female and your own statement:

"Based on past discussions, listed above and in the archives for this talk page, there is a consensus based on reliable sources and statements by the game's developers that Bridget's gender is female."

It is very obvious that Bridget is female. Please remove mention of Bridget's gender from the info box. (Unless you intend to add a gender to every video game character, regardless of how obvious their gender is?) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.247.240.233 (talk) 17:59, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

I believe the sheer number of recent discussions on this demonstrate that, despite the sourcing and because of the recent controversy surrounding the character coming out as trans, Bridget's gender is not obvious. Sideswipe9th (talk) 18:06, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

To each their own opinion. How about a poll (should be a built into MW software)

<poll show-results-before-voting> Do you think that it's obvious that Bridget is female? Yes No </poll>

<poll show-results-before-voting> If you voted "yes" above, should Bridget's gender be removed from the infobox? Yes No </poll>

I am Russian in New Zealand, Russian is my first language. Also, it seems you're misinterpreting the Spanish language too. What you refer to is es:Género (ciencias sociales), which, surprise, translates to ru:Гендер, not ru:Жанр which means es:Género artístico. Again, no. There's no vote to be held. The sources believe it's an important thing to be pointed out, and the major part of article is dedicated to the gender, so therefore it's in the infobox. --Sleeps-Darkly (talk) 15:39, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

If an individual's gender is obvious, why would you seek to point it out further?

"Hey look at me, I am a girl. Yes, I look, sound and act like a girl but my self-centeredness requires me to wear this badge that points out what is already obvious."

And why is this one of the only transgendered characters to have their gender pointed out? I don't see Poison (Final Fight) or Erica (Catherine) having their genders labeled, even though it is well documented that they are transgender. So why does Bridget get special treatment?

This goes against the good nature of Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.247.253.85 (talk) 16:06, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Fix historical pronoun usage

Ishawatari also said that Bridget was a difficult character to animate; she "has double the frames of animation" Bridget was male at the time, therefore he should be used instead.

Bridget was created as "a cute character" by Daisuke Ishiwatari, who wanted to vary the cast of Guilty Gear X2, where she was presented as a cross-dressing but self-identifying boy. 

At this time in history, Bridget hadn't come out as trans yet, therefore he should be used instead

In short, everything prior to Guilty Gear Strive should use male pronouns. If you don't, you end up with strange sentences like "Bridget was initially described as female by video game press. When they became aware that she was a boy,"

Looking at it as if you were writing a real person's life storyin chronological order, you would use the "old" pronouns up until the person transitioned and afterwords, you'd use the "proper" terminology. 174.247.253.85 (talk) 16:47, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. Use of pronouns on Wikipedia, even for fictional characters, is informed by MOS:GENDERID and MOS:GIDINFO. As such, articles generally use the pronouns that reflect the person's (or in this case character's) most recent expressed gender identity as reported in reliable sources.

Current reliable sources refer to Bridget as a woman, and use she/her pronouns, and so our article uses those pronouns. If you wish to change this, please establish a consensus first before making an edit request to enact the changes. Thanks. Sideswipe9th (talk) 16:51, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Also about if you were writing a real person's life storyin chronological order I would suggest that you review our articles on notable trans and non-binary individuals to see how we refer to individuals who have changed their pronouns. For example, Elliot Page, Chelsea Manning, Emma Corrin, and Eddie Izzard. We do not mix pronoun use in an article as you are suggesting, as per guidelines we use an individuals most recent pronouns only. Sideswipe9th (talk) 16:58, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

So you are ok with changing quotes made by real people? The developer referred to Bridget as a "HE" back in 2011(6). Just because it's your policy to not mix pronouns, does that make it ok to alter what a person said?

Take Elliot Page for example. (Fictional quote)

In 2018, his mother said "Ellen is the best daughter in the world"

Would you fix that?

In 2018, his mother said "Elliot is the best son in the world."

In any sane world, no, no you would not alter the words that others have spoken. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.247.253.85 (talk) 18:52, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

I've also left a response to your similar remarks made at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Gender identity § Altering a quote that a person said?, but in short, the text being discussed on this page (and the examples given at MOS:GENDERID) demonstrate correct use of elision, paraphrasing, and bracketing quotations (rather than directly altering them) to omit misgendering and misgendering. In your examples, you seem to be deliberately misconstruing or strawmanning this advice by directly altering quotations.

This article's current handling of quotes related to the character's gender seems consistent with the Manual of Style, and best practices of general. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (💬 • 📝) 19:59, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

You may be right, the Japanese text doesn't use any pronouns and opts for the name...

The (archived 2011) Siliconera article uses male pronouns,

Whereas the same article (!updated August 2022) now uses female pronouns and also links to the 2022 interview where Bridget is revealed to be transgender. (Yes, they went back to old articles and edited them with the knowledge of today.)

Also, whoever RoxySaunders is, needs to fix the OBJ squares in their signature. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.247.253.85 (talk) 20:24, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

The symbols you're seeing are probably Unicode replacement characters, caused by a missing glyph in your operating system's font, or an error in the browser you're using. On Unicode compatible systems with an up-to-date Emoji font, the glyphs in my signature should render as Transgender flag, Speech balloon, and Memo, respectively. I'm fairly confident the issue does not exist on my end. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (💬 • 📝) 21:03, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

I see OBJ (🏳️⚧️) OBJ (🗨️ellipsis) OBJ (📋✏️)

Depending on which Samsung font is used, and which browser (chromium supports all, others I either see an OBJ or the components of the combined emoji (why some count as 2 characters)