Jump to content

Talk:Bakhmut

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 77.56.54.159 (talk) at 23:18, 21 May 2023 (→‎Territorial control update request on 20 May 2023: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

WikiProject iconUkraine C‑class Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Ukraine, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ukraine on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.UkraineWikipedia:WikiProject UkraineTemplate:WikiProject UkraineUkraine articles
CThis article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconMilitary history: Post-Cold War C‑class
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
CThis article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.
B checklist
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
  1. Referencing and citation: criterion not met
  2. Coverage and accuracy: criterion met
  3. Structure: criterion met
  4. Grammar and style: criterion met
  5. Supporting materials: criterion met
Associated task forces:
/ 
Taskforce icon
Post-Cold War task force


Source for name change

See this article in The Guardian. It reads "On 23 December, the Ukrainian parliament approved a list of 108 towns and villages that will have their names changed after local consultation, including Artemovsk, a major town in east Ukraine named after Comrade Artem, an early Russian revolutionary. The town will go back to its pre-revolutionary name of Bakhmut". RGloucester — ☎ 06:43, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

But if it says "will go back" for me it reads "has not yet gone back". I see that the Ukrainian Wikipedia article is still Artemivsk, though they are usually very quick to rename.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:00, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If the changes were approved by parliament, and already voted on the by the city, that means that the change is done. In fact, in a Ukrinform report from 9 January, one sees that the city is referred to as "Bakhmut, former Artemivsk". Given that Ukrinform is the state news agency, I believe that we can trust it on this matter. RGloucester — ☎ 07:07, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, let us do it, but I still find the sourcing too weak and would prefer to have some kind of official publication (a lwa or smth like this).--Ymblanter (talk) 07:30, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For the record: Now we know that we should not trust Ukrinform, they publish disinformation or at least do not care to chesk what they publish.--Ymblanter (talk) 21:58, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean? RGloucester — ☎ 23:48, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
On 13 January the city has not yet been renamed. The Verkhovna Rada only voted yesterday, and the renaming is effective today.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:25, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Information about the city winery....

..... can be found here (for future expansion of the article). — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 17:10, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Bakhmut. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

checkY An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:49, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Native speakers

I re-calculated the %% of native speakers. For example, the numbers of Russian-speaking persons is 30.254 + 40.114 = 70.368

Total population is 113.785

70.368/1138 = 62% best regards, BonteKraai (talk) 15:02, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Russian first language majority but no Russian name anymore

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bakhmut&diff=next&oldid=1100534548 Bakhmutka (talk) 20:49, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Jews in the holocaust

Should be mention the collaboration of local population in the murder of the 3000 Jews (men, women, children, babies and elderly). 2003:DA:CF21:E401:A8FD:2A60:5632:9525 (talk) 16:33, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a source for that? I’ve only seen sources saying the opposite. HappyWith (talk) 04:24, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology

The current source of etymology given was not reliable. I recommend that authors write a section based on the Wiktionary article. Namuntlha (talk) 18:44, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Change Article Title to Artemovsk

Russia will soon conquer this city and remname it to its original name, Artemovsk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.225.198.180 (talk) 21:37, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Don't think you wanna pull that thread. Unless you also want to rename Karelia to Karjala. 107.77.234.236 (talk) 19:46, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:COMMONNAME. Mellk (talk) 20:03, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Images

There's way too many images on this page, cluttering up the History section like crazy. I plan to go through and prune the unnecessary ones myself when I have time, but if anyone else wants to start it in the meantime, that's welcomed. HappyWith (talk) 15:15, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In the Russian Empire there was Bakhmut

Bakhmut is a Russian name from the time of Ivan the Terrible — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.111.119.54 (talk) 17:35, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Russian spelling

Sources overwhelmingly spell the Russian name Artemovsk,[1] by a majority of 75% or more.[2] The article text should reflect that. Any objections? —Michael Z. 15:02, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Those sources are only from 2019 and earlier, which does not account for a possible change in usage during the invasion, when the city has become far more known. According to WP:NCRUS: when in doubt, Wikipedia uses the modification of the BGN/PCGN romanization of Russian described at WP:RUS in which Cyrillic 'ё' (as in "Артёмовск") is transliterated as 'yo', so "Artyomovsk" is the way to go, I think. This also goes better with the fact that the city was renamed for Comrade Artyom. HappyWith (talk) 18:20, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is no doubt, so WP:RUS doesn’t enter into it. Sergeev’s nickname doesn’t enter into it. Speculation about after 2019 doesn’t enter into it. The Russian name is most commonly spelled Artemovsk in English according to the evidence.  —Michael Z. 01:51, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
To assuage your concerns about recent sources, Google Advanced Book Search results for English-language sources from 2020 to the present:
The most common name is Bakhmut: “Page 3 of about 4,660 results” (23 displayed).[3]  —Michael Z. 14:12, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
By “recent”, I more meant 2022-2023, as that was when the town entered public consciousness, but whatever, I’m pretty much indifferent to the change so long as it’s kept consistent with “Comrade Artem”. HappyWith (talk) 14:47, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I meant the results above are starting from 2020 to the present, i.e., after 2019.  —Michael Z. 16:31, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In Soviet times, the city was called Artiomovsk, after 2015 the Ukrainians changed its name to Bakhmut, thus honoring the Russian Empire ?

nope. it is more a reject of the soviet era than an honour to russian empire. and please use titles only for topic, and asking your questions in normal text, that would be betterSuperHéraut (talk) 01:03, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 April 2023

Add a hatnote at the top that says "For the battle, see Battle of Bakhmut" or something similarly phrased. 188.163.45.249 (talk) 05:20, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: I don't think this is necessary. The title of the article is quite clear, so there's no ambiguity on its content. Additionally, the battle is mentioned and linked to in the lead. Let me know if you disagree. Thanks, and happy editing! Actualcpscm (talk) 14:10, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 May 2023

less than 5% of bakhmut is under ukrainian control. I would get rid of the sentence that says that the russian forces largely do not control bakhmut 180.150.38.17 (talk) 13:01, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done: In the future, please follow the specified format for edit requests, and link a reliable source. ARandomName123 (talk) 15:04, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Slavo-Serbia

I can’t find a single source that actually backs up the claims that Bakhmut was the capital of the territory of Slavo-Serbia. I’ve tried searching in Russian, Ukrainian, and even Serbian languages, but nothing comes up. Is this even true? It’s to the point that I’m worrying it’s just completely invented info. If anyone has sources, or some sort of confirmation on whether this is true, please let me know. HappyWith (talk) 05:47, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I finally managed to find a source for it. It's not the most high-quality reference out there - the article mentions Wikipedia a few times - so I'm still a little worried this could be citogenesis, but this at least seems to suggest it's not just made-up. HappyWith (talk) 17:14, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Update 2: Encyclopedia of Ukraine backs it up. [4] Problem's resolved. HappyWith (talk) 20:16, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Territorial control update request on 20 May 2023

{{edit extended-protected}} As Bakhmut has recently fallen, some details of the article should be updated. The Russian capture of Bakhmut has been confirmed by independent war mappers, Volodymyr Zelensky (president of Ukraine), the Russian ministry of defence and Yevgeny Prigozhin (founder of Wagner PMC) meaning all parties involved have confirmed this. (see sources below)

"Reuters is reporting Volodymyr Zelenskiy appeared to confirm the loss of the city of Bakhmut to Russia on Sunday, saying “I think no” when asked if it remained in Kyiv’s control. “I think no,” he said ahead of a meeting with Joe Biden at the G7 summit, according to Reuters. “For today, it is only in our hearts.” - https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/may/21/russia-ukraine-war-live-zelenskiy-to-meet-biden-at-g7-kyiv-says-fighting-in-bakhmut-continues

"Today, at 12 noon, Bakhmut was completely taken," Prigozhin said. "We completely took the whole city, from house to house." - https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-prigozhin-claims-full-control-bakhmut-2023-05-20/

"The Russian Defense Ministry on Saturday announced that its troops, along with Wagner mercenaries, have taken control of the flashpoint city." - https://www.dw.com/en/ukraines-zelenskyy-appears-to-acknowledge-loss-of-bakhmut/a-65688229

Therefore, the following line of “ As of May 2023, Ukrainian forces remain in partial control of the city, which is an epicentre of fierce fighting, as Russian forces battle to take control.” should be changed to “As of 20-05-2023, Bakhmut has reportedly been under the territorial control of the Russian Federation/ Donetsk People's Republic” or something similar. This is an update on the situation in Bakhmut after Russian forces have recently taken the city a few hours ago after the situation became unfavourable for Ukrainian defenders causing them to withdraw from the last held strongholds.

"Russian forces have claimed full control of Bakhmut, ending an intense monthslong battle for the eastern city that came to embody Ukrainian resistance." - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-captures-bakhmut-putin-ukraine-counteroffensive-rcna72615

15:13, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Not done. Ukraine has denied the city has fallen and the situation is impossible to verify. --TadejM my talk 18:12, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The president of Ukraine has confirmed it 199.126.83.115 (talk) 19:08, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The article has been changed
On 20 May 2023, Wagner Group founder Yevgeny Prigozhin and the Russian defence ministry both claimed that Bakhmut was completely captured. Ukraine denied Prigozhin's initial claim and said heavy clashes for the city were ongoing, but it did not immediately respond to the Russian ministry's statement. However, several news sources have reported that the battle is over. 223.252.62.38 (talk) 22:49, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You sir are from a NATO country and side in this conflict. Therefore, fully biased and without moral ground to be a mod on this topic! 77.56.54.159 (talk) 23:18, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong name for the city

It is now called Artemovsk and is a part of the Donetsk People's Republic. 70.53.72.60 (talk) 21:42, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please see WP:COMMONNAME. The name you mention is already included in the article’s text. Tollens (talk) 23:22, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bakhmut&oldid=1156247136"