Talk:2023 Odisha train collision

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Major news sources in India using "Odisha" as the location

The major India news outlets are either using "Odisha" or some variation of "Odisha's Balasore" in the headline, indicating that "Balasore" is probably not generally recognizable as a location even for those in India. Top headlines include:

Odisha train accident: 70 dead, over 350 injured as trains derail in Balasore [1]
Photos: 70+ killed, over 600 injured in Balasore triple train crash in Odisha [2]
Odisha train accident live updates | 70 killed, 350 injured in Balasore district [3]
Coromandel Express collides with goods train in Odisha's Balasore; 132 injured, several killed [4]
Odisha: 70 dead, over 350 injured after 3 trains collide near Bahanaga station in Balasore [5]
Odisha Train Accident LIVE: Over 50 Dead, 600 Injured As Trains Collide; NDRF Teams at Site, Rescue Ops Underway [6]

Given WP:COMMONNAME, I'm going to be bold and move the article name to 2023 Odisha train collision. - Fuzheado | Talk 20:35, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes odisha is the name of the state where the incident took place.

Wikipedia - Odisha

And Balasore is a city in Odisha.

You did the correct job. 2023 Odisha train accident seems accountable.

Iamrajdeepdas (talk) 02:19, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not really. Would we write "Tennessee train collission" if it happened near Knoxville? Balasore is a town of almost 150.000 inhabitants. Matthiasb (talk) 09:57, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

One cannot just go by raw city numbers, however. Countries like India and China are massive. While Knoxville is the 127th largest city in the United States, Balasore as a city of 150,000 in India makes it only the 407th most populous city in India. Those headlines from news outlets in India led with Odisha for a reason. FWIW, we have 2023 Ohio train derailment as the title for that large scale disaster, and not 2023 East Palestine rail derailment. - Fuzheado | Talk 10:59, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This crash happened in Balasore district, but not in Balasore city. It's the only notable train crash in the district, but not the only one in Odisha. Using Balasore in the title is better because it's much more precise & avoids the need for the year to be in it. A significant minority of Indian mainstream news outlets are using Balasore in their titles. Sources in other countries don't because the vast majority of people outside India haven't heard of the city or district. Most of those use India in their titles instead, but we wouldn't consider including India in the title. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 13:39, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We have WP:COMMONNAME as a policy and I showed the prominent examples above where Odisha-centric headlines comes up at the top of Google News. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, but I'm not seeing the use of Balasore, without Odisha, being used in the same way. Also, WP:NCEVENTS says to use when/where/what unless "in historic perspective, the event is easily described without it." We have not reached the point where "Balasore train collision" is recognizable on its own, so we should have the year in the title. This may change as time goes on. - Fuzheado | Talk 13:49, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't dispute that considerably more media articles include Odisha in their titles compared to Balasore, but some use Balasore without Odisha. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 14:16, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It may be that over time (perhaps sooner than later) that Balasore becomes more prominent than Odisha, and we can then re-evaluate the title. - Fuzheado | Talk 14:26, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Stationary Freight Train

Is it permissible to wonder if the "Stationary Freight Train" referred to briefly in news articles was "stationary" in the wrong place at the wrong time, and might have caused the accident? I will withdraw this comment if it is out of place. 24.108.18.81 (talk) 03:57, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is permissible to ask questions here, which is better than adding speculation to the article. We need to be patient and await the release of further information to the media. Mjroots (talk) 09:19, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The "See also" section

Can we please not bloat this with lots of links to unrelated incidents. I've removed the tsunami train wreck link. There is nothing in common between the two events there. Mjroots (talk) 09:21, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Train Collision Odisha.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:08, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Point of information: The image on Commons was initially tagged for speedy deletion, but a quick inspection of its source (a Youtube screen capture from news outlet Kalinga TV) shows it was a valid use of that organization's CC-BY licensed video. Instead of just removing the speedy deletion template, I formally nominated it for deletion, simply to let the process validate that it was OK to keep in Commons. So while I was both the nominator for deletion, and the one who put it in the infobox here, I maintain that the image is valid and should be kept. So that might help explain the odd paradox that I both nomindated it for deletion and used the image. - Fuzheado | Talk 13:40, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Background

(Redacted)^[1] - I guess it is a WP:COPYVIO actually. See page history to read. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 14:07, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Shaheen of Iqbal: I do not think that this information is particularly relevant to this accident. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 13:35, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well, many media outlets see it as relevant and we go by what the sources say. Shaheen of Iqbal (talk) 13:41, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is missing the point. When we do not know the reason for accident yet, it is stupid to blame British infrastructure. Further, accidents due to falls from trains and collisions between trains and people on the track are completely irrelevant to this case. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 13:51, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Shaheen of Iqbal: The article also mentions "Later this year, the country will open Chenab Bridge – the world’s tallest railway bridge – in the country’s Jammu and Kashmir region.". May be that also counts for the background section then? —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 13:56, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You can tell that to the CNN. No one is blaming nobody. It clearly states them to be "factors often cited in accidents" occured previously. The same way Pakistan is blamed on articles for every terrorist attack in India even before the investigation is completed and without evidence, it is completely relevant to mention the 2021 figures. Shaheen of Iqbal (talk) 14:01, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have to agree with @CX Zoom here – this commentary seems a bit too far afield and preachy to be included in the background, especially with the gratuitous reference to British colonial rule and the lack of connection to "falls from trains and collisions between trains and people on the track." In the spirit of WP:BRD and not edit warring, it's best to discuss this on the talk page and not keep adding it in. - Fuzheado | Talk 14:01, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Mogul, Rhea; Sidhu, Sandi; Rebane, Teele; Suri, Manveena; Goodwin, Allegra (3 June 2023). "Desperate search for survivors as death toll nears 300 in India train crash". CNN.

Archiving of external video

I added two external videos, is there a way to archive it properly? @Fuzheado: can you help? —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 14:20, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Number of those injured

NBC News[7] has given a specific number for those injured;

 At least 288 people died on Friday and 747 were injured when two passenger trains derailed, trapping people under mangled coaches and flipped rail cars, Indian Railways said Saturday afternoon.[8]

Should this replace the estimated 900 throughout the article? DS_X1 (talk) 14:31, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"According to Pramila Mallik, Odisha state's disaster management minister, 288 people were killed in the accident. While more than 900 others were injured."

I'm guessing the period should be a comma? 2A01:E0A:9A9:8870:1DE8:8A63:8DBF:F357 (talk) 14:49, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah DS_X1 (talk) 15:14, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[CNN-1] Mogul, Rhea; Sidhu, Sandi; Rebane, Teele; Suri, Manveena; Goodwin, Allegra (3 June 2023). "Desperate search for survivors as death toll nears 300 in India train crash". CNN.

[1]