User talk:GuardianH

Adding More Citations Needed tags on University Articles

Hello, I just removed the More Citations Needed tag on University of Maryland, but it looks like you are adding that rather freely on several other educational institution articles. Respectfully, it would be more helpful to place that tag with the section limit on sections where additional citations are needed, or use a Citation Needed tag on specific paragraphs/sentences. Saying an article with more than 275 citations on it needs more citations when for the most part it appears to be adequately sourced doesn't help me understand your concern or guide me in improving it. —Carter (Tcr25) (talk) 19:37, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

@Tcr25 The citation needed tag was primarily for the purpose of notifying readers that some information in the article may be unverified, and that editors ought to place respective citations where necessary. The section for Women's basketball is completely unsourced, as is substantial portions of the Campus section and Residential Life. There's some other clauses that need citation, and you're right that a section tag might be better. GuardianH (talk) 19:50, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! —Carter (Tcr25) (talk) 13:39, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Recent College/University Edits

Hello GuardianH, regarding some of your recent edits to college and university articles; it looks like you may not be applying the same standards objectively across the board, which, if true, would amount to a detriment to the principle of the free dissemination of accurate knowledge.

For example, it appears your recent edits to University of Wisconsin–Madison and San Diego State University, in which you removed paragraphs describing well-cited alumni accomplishments consistent with the layout of most peer articles, are at odds with your changes to Connecticut College:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=University_of_Wisconsin–Madison&oldid=1151447180

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=San_Diego_State_University&oldid=1151610611

The first edit cites "an additional paragraph dedicated to alumni is excessive, may find better placement in body; WP:UNDUE". Conversely, you've added a very similar alumni paragraph to Connecticut College, which would also be also guilty of advertisement if we apply the same standard that you did in this edit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=University_of_Wisconsin–Madison&oldid=1151447318

I respectfully ask that you reconsider your approach to articles of this nature. Thank you. ConsistentStandards (talk) 05:15, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

All university pages contain a section dedicated to alumni in the lede, the problem was that oftentimes these become excessive and overly detailed, such as the case in UW-M and SDSU. These are WP:UNDUE and generally embellish a school's reputation in addition to being disproportional to the article. GuardianH (talk) 17:54, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

An additional note: Conn's lede alumni section is relatively standard, unlike what was that in UW-M and SDSU. A notable FA example would be that of Pomona College. GuardianH (talk) 18:20, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your thoughts. Whether or not the edits I reference above are WP:UNDUE is not relevant to the matter I wish to bring to your attention; they are an example of what appears to be a lack of objectivity evident in your recent changes to many college and university articles.

Another example of this concerning bias is your removal of the acceptance rate from the lede of the Hamilton College article, which you attribute to "trim puff":

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hamilton_College&diff=1151282884&oldid=1150152115

Meanwhile, you have added the acceptance rate of Connecticut College to the article lede:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Connecticut_College&diff=1151606199&oldid=1149047343

Not applying the same standards objectively in your edits is a neutrality violation: Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. This would amount to a detriment to the principle of the free dissemination of accurate knowledge upon which Wikipedia is founded. In the interest of this principle, I implore you to reconsider your approach to articles of this nature. Thank you. ConsistentStandards (talk) 20:34, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

The pre-existing clause for HC stated Hamilton places among the most selective colleges in the country, with an 11.8% acceptance rate. The first portion of the sentence was WP:UNDUE, and was not supported by the sources (both of which were primary). That was why I removed it; I hope that clears some things up. Your perhaps right in that it may be better to include the acceptance rate back in the lede; I've re-added it now that the puff has been trimmed. GuardianH (talk) 23:19, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Well done; I trust my greater point has been taken. Connecticut College is an excellent school, and you've done a great job with the article. ConsistentStandards (talk) 03:10, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

I think you are doing good work in decreasing puff and boosterism on university pages. May I ask your opinion about my work reducing Greek puff? I have been starting out on the talk pages of the various universities and colleges, proposing my deletions there first. But no one has answered so far, and there seems to be Wiki-consensus about reducing Greek puff. So: do you think it is necessary for me to start on talk pages or is it ok to delete without talk? --Melchior2006 (talk) 06:41, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Hey @Melchior2006, thank you for what you say about my effort to reduce puff; though there has been some movement, there is still a lot to be done. If no one responds in the talk page, it is likely that you can make your deletions without discussing them first—this is especially true if you believe your edits are relatively uncontroversial (i.e. if you are fixing grammar or obvious MOS:PUFFERY). You can also make edits you believe might be controversial (i.e. a removal of a puff-riddled section), per WP:BOLD. I'm not familiar with what you mean by Greek puff, but from what I've seen from a cursory look at your edits you've been making both good effort and progress to clean up higher education pages. GuardianH (talk) 14:21, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Hey @GuardianH, thanks for the support and the green light. By "Greek puff," I meant all of the lists and superfluous information about fraternity houses. I will go ahead and make a few edits without discussing them on the talk pages and let you know if I get any reactions. --Melchior2006 (talk) 07:57, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

• Comment Hi! In your recent edit to University of California, Los Angeles, you added an ambiguous edit summary “neut”. Normally this wouldn’t be a big deal, but given the above discussion, it might be helpful if you were to leave clear and detailed edit summaries. Cheers, RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 00:17, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

  No problem. It's just short for "neutral", so in that case I just reworded it using a more neutral term. I hope that clears some things up. GuardianH (talk) 03:08, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@GuardianH

It's not acceptable to rewrite the truth the way you see fit. I've reverted recent vandalism to the Northeastern and Connecticut College articles (your edits to the second are strange considering you appear to have written most of the reverted content yourself). I suggest you read over the Neutral Point of View FAQ guidelines, specifically: WP:POVDELETION.

"It is a frequent misunderstanding of the NPOV policy, often expressed by newbies, visitors, and outside critics, that articles must not contain any form of bias, hence their efforts to remove statements they perceive as biased. The NPOV policy does forbid the inclusion of editorial bias, but does not forbid properly sourced bias. Without the inclusion and documentation of bias in the real world, many of our articles would fail to document the sum total of human knowledge, and would be rather "blah" reading, devoid of much meaningful and interesting content."

If you have further controversial edits, I suggest opening discussion in article talk pages. Relativebalance (talk) 18:20, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

You have a misunderstanding of WP:VAND, and you are labeling any edits you dislike to be vandalism in order to justify their removal. I removed content on Northeastern University because they were unsourced, were puff, unnecessarily excessive in detail concerning minor programs, or to remove undue information from the lede. These removals are valid per WP:NOSOURCES, WP:NPOV, WP:PROMOTION and WP:BOLD, among others, and removed MOS:PUFFERY, MOS:EDITORIAL, and WP:UNDUE. If you have a particular issue on an edit, you should seek consensus on the talk page and I will go through the material with you.

Colleges and universities have a problem with WP:ACADEMIC BOOSTERISM because they are often edited by alumni or affiliates (in a WP:COI), which leads to the addition of excessive, promotional, or entirely unsourced material, as was there in the article for Northeastern. My edits to Connecticut College were all self-reverts of my own additions—again, not even close to vandalism. GuardianH (talk) 19:13, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

All the information you removed was sourced. Puff, unnecessarily excessive detail, and undue information are all debatable. WP:BOLD specifically suggests not becoming upset if others revert your changes, because the nature of your changes are bold. WP:POVDELETION states properly sourced bias is not forbidden. Even if you believe the Northeastern article is biased, the bias is sourced and therefore permitted.

Your edits to Holy Cross are just as biased, it seems like you are willing to ignore these issues for the certain colleges while applying them stringently elsewhere. Relativebalance (talk) 19:24, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

You are using WP:POVDELETION to justify promotional, puff, and undue material, which it doesn't—that's why there are policies such as MOS:PUFFERY and MOS:EDITORIAL in place. Prime examples in the Northeastern article include:

Northeastern also has a comprehensive study abroad program that spans more than 170 universities and colleges.

Founded in 2009, IDEA is Northeastern University's student-led Venture Accelerator, which provides entrepreneurs, including students, faculty, and alumni in the Northeastern community with the necessary support and educational experience towards developing a business from core concept to launch.

Northeastern co-op students staying in Boston usually benefit from the fact that the city's most prominent industries have numerous offices/headquarters there.

Northeastern also has the notable Dialogues of Civilizations program, which features dozens of one-month-long programs (usually taking place in the summer) where a faculty member will teach a group of students in a region related to the curriculum of a specific class. A sort of "mini" study abroad, each program has an area of focus – for example, the Geneva program focuses on small arms and multilateral negotiations, while the South Africa program is based in non-governmental organizations, and the Seattle program focuses on design thinking. This program is meant to be a communicative experience and an exchange of ideas and cultures.

The historic structure, built in 1911, would influence new campus buildings away from the original gray-brick campus, as exemplified by the extension of the law school's Cargill Hall in the early 1980s.

Through landscape improvements, the university transformed a commuter school campus, once dominated by asphalt, to a greener environment. For example, the Behrakis Health Sciences Center, named for 1957 pharmaceutical alumnus George Behrakis, is a 240,000 square feet (22,000 m2) mixed-use project that included a residence hall and parking garage containing a garden roof, integrates smoothly into the campus.

Ice hockey has been one of Northeastern's most prominent athletic programs.

NU has carved out a quiet, peaceful space in the centrally located Ell Building for the Spiritual Life Center's Sacred Space. The nondenominational Sacred Space, the center's main assembly hall, can be configured with carpets, mats or chairs. It has a distinctive ceiling consisting of 3 hanging domes made of overlapping aluminum tiles with an origami-like effect, warm wood floors and accents, and glass-paneled walls that lean outward slightly, their shape and material giving a sense of openness and volume to the space.

This is not to mention the unsourced information which also puffs the article and remains to be verified. GuardianH (talk) 19:49, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

I've reverted your changes and opened a discussion on this topic quoting your reasoning on the Northeastern Talk page to gather a consensus and get the opinion of more editors. I hope we can hold off on an edit war until the broader community weighs in. Relativebalance (talk) 19:44, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

I'll go through the particular issues on the talk page you've opened up. I'll reinstate the conncoll edits; as mentioned above, neither constituted vandalism and removing my own additions to an article is far from it. GuardianH (talk) 19:59, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Also, I've now trimmed some MOS:PUFFERY and MOS:EDITORIAL on the College of the Holy Cross in regards to your concerns. GuardianH (talk) 20:30, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Although I've already made you aware of this on the Northeastern talk page, I'm additionally notifying you of this DRN here per the guidelines. Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard#Northeastern University Relativebalance (talk) 03:27, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Heads up

There is a special rule in effect at the Hunter Biden laptop page that reads “Changes challenged by reversion may not be reinstated without affirmative consensus on the talk page.” Your edit here ran afoul of that as that had recently been removed and reinstated and thus was not permitted to be removed again without consensus on the talk page. It has since been removed again, so there’s nothing you need to do, but just keep this in mind moving forward. I hope you’ll participate in the talk page discussion and help find the right way to handle this text. Mr Ernie (talk) 02:29, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 1

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Marie L. Garibaldi, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page LLM.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:38, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on Dorcas Hardy

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Bon courage (talk) 16:37, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

capitalizing "court"

Regarding this revert, the capitalization of "court" was quite inconsistent in the article before I edited it, and simply undoing that work probably wasn't the best course of action. I don't find in MOS:INSTITUTIONS any justification to capitalize, but there's always another guideline or policy and you're likely drawing on one I just don't know yet. I'd be curious to know which it is. In any case, if you want to capitalize "court" then you should take the time to be consistent about it, as I did. ~TPW 14:20, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

The guideline I was drawing on was MOS:INSTITUTIONS, we simply had different interpretations of it. The capitalization of the Supreme Court as "Court" is consistent with the generic plural or plural legal examples given. All Supreme Court FAs — Wiley Rutledge, Melville Fuller, Sherman Minton, Antonin Scalia — capitalize the term and passed their respective reviews having done so. GuardianH (talk) 14:24, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Do you go to LHS?

I saw you edited the page and your page says you're a MA HS student. GrahamSH-LLK (talk) 15:13, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Your edit on Luo Wenzao

Dear GuardianH:

You recently made an edit on Luo Wenzao. Specifically, you combined "Chinese Catholic" (linking to Chinese people and Catholic church respectively) into "Chinese Catholic" (now linking to the Catholic Church in China). The edit link is here.

It's on me that I did not follow MOS:LINKSTYLE, that I shouldn't have put "Chinese" and "Catholic" side-by-side. However, putting the single "Chinese Catholic" link here is misleading: Luo is not the first Bishop in the Catholic Church in China. There are other apostolic vicars (with the title of bishop) before him, such as Francois Pallu. To quote from the article:

In 1658, Pallu became Bishop of Heliopolis, and Vicar apostolic of Tonkin (which consisted of northern Vietnam, Laos and five provinces of southwest China).

As such, I am modifying the lede and in a way reverting your edit. I hope I made the point clear, and I thank you for your attention to the article. Now the lede should say "... was the first Catholic bishop of Chinese ethnicity".

P.S. I also went to high school in somewhere in Massachusetts, about 40 minutes to the north of Boston, and headed the Wikipedia club there... ;)

Cheers. --TheLonelyPather (talk) 22:06, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

An excellent article @TheLonelyPather; of course, I take no issue with any of your changes. Your work on Wenzao is prodigious, as one might expect of an educated person who headed a Wikipedia club in Massachusetts. GuardianH (talk) 22:40, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

"Correcting" university degrees

Be careful when altering a degree awarded, as you did in Elena Kagan. Kagan's degree was not a BA, as you have altered the article to read; it was an AB. See the information Kagan herself supplied to the Senate for her confirmation hearings.

If you are making similar edits to other article, please confirm you have it right before making such "corrections". TJRC (talk) 02:55, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

@TJRC An A.B. and a B.A. are identical — the former stands for artium baccalaureus and the latter, baccalaureus artium. Regardless, they both are terms for a Bachelor of Arts. What's of note is that some schools — i.e., in this case, Princeton University — keep the original Latin tradition of labeling a degree A.B., that's why Kagan labeled her degree an A.B. Most readers are familiar with B.A., but otherwise unfamiliar with an A.B.

Per the use of the most easily identifiable label, it is better to label these degrees as a B.A,; the only exception likely being if the user received their degree before the advent of widespread highered (i.e. the days of Harvard College). Harvard also still uses the antiquated method of labeling their BA as AB, and this includes their master's degrees and other graduate degrees (BS as SB, MS as SM, MA as AM) but, for the aforementioned reason above, we don't reflect this use for sake of readability. GuardianH (talk) 22:01, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I think it's better to note it as the degree actually awarded by the institution. TJRC (talk) 00:19, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Are lists of sports teams puffery?

I find lists of sports teams to be a lot like advertising. Often, there is no way of verifying the information. I am sure that in some cases they are inaccurate because teams have died or new ones have been founded. In general, the value of such lists as encyclopedia information is questionable. What do you think? -- Melchior2006 (talk) 13:34, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

If sports teams sections are completely unsourced, it's likely that you can remove the longstanding material — this is especially true since, given there is little way of verifying the information, it may have been placed with the goal to inflate the schools reputation. In fact, some unverified lists of, e.g., a school's victories in sports may be supplemented by completely fabricated information. See WP:PROMOTION; if it is blatant or explicit in this fashion, it should definitely be removed. GuardianH (talk) 02:09, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Franklin & Marshall College, boosterism

Howdy, I've recently overhauled the Franklin & Marshall article and I agree, it appears to be boosterism. I'm not trying to bolster the college's reputation, I just got caught up in improving the article. It's a bad look, I agree.

I'll refrain from touching the article and I'll let other able Wikipedians have at it. This is a formal apology for the appearance of impropriety.

Your buddy, R. J. Dockery (talk) 20:42, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

No worries. Some material that is WP:PROMOTION will need to be trimmed. GuardianH (talk) 23:01, 10 June 2023 (UTC)