Talk:Asim Munir

Controversies

In yet another case of blatant corruption by a Pakistan Army officer the Core Commander of Gujranwala Lieutenant General Asim Munir demanded Rs. 90 crore extortion money from the chief executive officer of Master Tiles, one of the largest companies of Pakistan that employs over ten million people. However this was denied by the chief executive officer of Master Tiles and confirmed by Lieutenant General (retired) Amjad Shoaib.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=emL2FmZ3Ilg

Lt. Gen. Asim Munir had earlier held the plum positions of DG ISI (Inter-Services Intelligence) and DG Military Intelligence 81.157.166.61 (talk) 06:54, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 June 2023

I want to add a "Personal life" section before the "Military career" section, going as follow:

"Asim Munir's family roots lie in Toba Tek Singh but they have been living in Rawalpindi's Dehri Hassanabad for decades now. His father was the principal of a technical school, a brother is also a teacher while his brother-in-law Air Chief Marshal Mushaf Ali Mir passed away in an air crash in 2003.

Locally, the family has been known to be religious and scholarly, Asim Munir's father being a Hafiz-e-Quran, having memorized the entire Qur'an by heart, and he himself memorized the Qur'an in Rawalpindi's Madrassah Darul Tajweedul Quran, being a student of a well-known local scholar and preacher, Hafiz Khalil Ahmed." 2A02:A03F:6504:1700:3142:CE82:1C31:47C5 (talk) 08:37, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

References

 Partly done: Added section and second paragraph with rewrites for clarity and better coherence to citation in this diff. Feel free to ping me if any of my changes are unacceptable. First paragraph not done because requested text is not supported by given citation. Reopen the edit request if reliable sources can be found. Xan747 (talk) 20:51, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Greetings, I want to first thank you for at least adding the second paragraph.

As for the 1st paragraph it was present in the link but now apparently it's no more accessible unless you're a subscriber, but I've found another link with the exact same info :

Read the very last paragraph in particular.

Also it'd be good to include the name of Mushaf Ali Mir in the Infobox, in the relatives cat as "brother-in-law".

Thanks again. 2A02:A03F:6504:1700:9918:D448:6E18:976B (talk) 09:35, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done with minor changes. Scientia potentia est, -MonarchOfTerror (talk) 11:15, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi thanks a lot, can I ask for other slight changes ?

There seems to be an extra comma (",") here (subsection "Personal life", second paragraph) :

"He was also a student of Islamic preacher, Hafiz Khalil Ahmed."

The "," between "preacher" and "Hafiz" seems to break the fluidity of the sentence.

Also could we rephrase the beginning of this 2nd paragraph ? Because we get "Asim Munir's family" twice, at the beginning of the 2nd one we could say "His family" instead.

Lastly : the subsection name "Retirement & Reappointment" could be restylized as "Retirement and reappointment" (the & and capital letter in second word seems odd from Wikipedia's usual writing templates).

Thanks. 2A02:A03F:6504:1700:7027:23CA:905C:63F2 (talk) 06:00, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done All requested changes implemented. Scientia potentia est, -MonarchOfTerror^(talk) 07:59, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

27 June 2023

User:Raheelejaz907 I do not understand why you're removing my sourced edit. I previously warned you for reverting my sourced edit without providing an explanation, and now you reverted my edit again, but this time by falsely claiming in an edit summary that its "IP Vandalism," even though I am logged in. Please stop before you are reported for edit warring. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SahafatKaLover18 (talk • contribs) 09:20, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello User:SilkTork kindly facilitate this discussion between us as User:Raheelejaz907 still has not responded. SahafatKaLover18 (talk) 22:22, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Also, what do we do if they don't respond? Can I restore my edit? SahafatKaLover18 (talk) 22:24, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

You wish to make an edit saying that Asim Munir was known as "The Deceiver" - correct? And you are sourcing that information to a Twitter account. Only in exceptional cases would we accept a Twitter account as a reliable source, and never as a source on a living person. See WP:RSSELF. So you would need to find a reliable source first. I also note that you wish to add Shah to his name in the lead, which I understand would be an honorary title rather than part of his name. Currently in the lead his name is given as "Syed Asim Munir Ahmed", while in the infobox his name is given as "Asim Munir Ahmad Shah". So Shah is an honorary title, and Syed is an honorary title. And it appears to me that both can be used. There is a news source here which uses both: DND. I am unsure how reliable the source is. There is another news source Indian Express. We have an article on The Indian Express, which sugest it would be a reliable source. If unsure whether a source is reliable, you can ask at WP:RSN.

When Raheelejaz907 returns to editing you can discuss this edit together and come to an agreement. It appears to me that using Shah is supported by sources, though it would be appropriate to get Raheelejaz907's opinion. To use "The Deceiver" you'd need to have a reliable source, and to hear Raheelejaz907's objection. Allow Raheelejaz907 a few more days to respond before making an edit. Don't make an edit without notifying me first. And make sure you have reliable sources for any information you wish to add. SilkTork (talk) 00:03, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

The reliable source is the Twitter account, Wajahat S. Khan. He is a journalist and majority of his shows were with the army. He didn't come up with the moniker himself, the nickname is in the student yearbook of the Pakistan Command and Staff College which Asim attended as a Major where he was given the nickname "The Deceiver". You can see it in this tweet [1] SahafatKaLover18 (talk) 01:32, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

I have found that User:Raheelejaz907 is editing off of User:Raheeiejaz907 account which is why they have not responded to this discussion or on their talk page. What do we do now? Also could you please respond to my previous reply, thanks. SahafatKaLover18 (talk) 02:40, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

In regards to your previous reply, I'm not sure if you noticed what I had written above: "Only in exceptional cases would we accept a Twitter account as a reliable source, and never as a source on a living person. See WP:RSSELF. So you would need to find a reliable source first." To make it clearer: you cannot use the Twitter source, so you'll need to find a reliable source for the school nickname of "The Deceiver"; and if it is agreed to use that information, it has to be placed in context (ie, not in the first sentence), but in an Early history section about where he was born, and his education. That someone had a nickname at school or college is not in itself essential information.

I'll take a look at the User:Raheelejaz907 / User:Raheeiejaz907 situation. SilkTork (talk) 11:40, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

User:Raheeiejaz907 has been indefinitely blocked as a sock of User:Raheelejaz907, and User:Raheelejaz907 has been blocked for one week as the sockmaster.

SahafatKaLover18, you may continue editing this article, but do not include the contentious edits - that Asim Munir was known as "The Deceiver" and that his name includes the title Shah, until Raheelejaz907's block is over, and they have had a chance to discuss the issue. If they have not responded here by ten days time, you may include that information, but only if you use cites to reliable sources which support the information, and that the information is placed in the appropriate place in the article, as discussed above. SilkTork (talk) 12:31, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

his name in PMA was "The Deceiver" thats what he is doing now. Deceiving the people of Pakistan. 37.210.87.203 (talk) 11:32, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Wrong ethnic info

In the personal life section it’s written that Asim Munir is Urdu speaking but he’s actually Punjabi.

See this :

"His parents migrated from Jalandhar, east Punjab […] he would be the eighth Punjabi Army Chief […]"

Source : https://www.firstpost.com/opinion-news-expert-views-news-analysis-firstpost-viewpoint/gen-asim-munir-unlikely-to-be-busy-on-india-front-for-now-as-imran-khan-hostile-durand-line-pose-new-challenges-11725771.html/amp

Thus I propose to change the opening lines as such :

"Asim Munir was born into a middle class Punjabi Muslim family, their roots lying in Jalandhar, now in Indian Punjab, from where his parents migrated."

Thanks. 2A02:A03F:69BC:5F00:85F9:AB43:E79C:29F (talk) 08:36, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

 Comment: He joined the army after passing out with the sword of honour (first position) this was copied from the "firstpost" (is this a high quality source?). The second source doesn't mention Punjab. M.Bitton (talk) 09:23, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi I just quoted one source, the Firstpost one, which mentions the quote I brought and thus his ethnic Punjabi background, and yes Firstpost is considered a reliable publication. 188.95.55.126 (talk) 09:55, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

 Question: Just to make sure I understand you want to

Change: Asim Munir was born to a middle class Punjabi Muslim family. Munir's family is originally from Toba Tek Singh but they have been living in Rawalpindi's Dehri Hassanabad for decades now.

To: Asim Munir was born into a middle class Punjabi Muslim family, their roots lying in Jalandhar, now in Indian Punjab, from where his parents migrated.

OR, do you want to change only the first sentence, and leave the second sentence as is?

ALSO, the lede sentence of the article gives his name in Urdu. If he's Punjabi, should that be changed too? If so, to what? Xan747 (talk)

Hi when I wanted to make the change it was no "middle class Punjabi Muslim" but "middle class Urdu speaking", yet we can still add more details (namely his ultimate roots in India's Punjabà, so I want to make it that way :

"Asim Munir was born into a middle class Punjabi Muslim family, their roots lying in Jalandhar, now in Indian Punjab, from where his parents migrated. They moved to Toba Tek Singh before settling down in Rawalpindi's Dehri Hassanabad, where they have been established for decades now. His father, Syed Sarwar Munir [...]"

I don't put a source for the second part of the paragraph because it's already sourced in the main article, at the very end of the whole paragraph (that is, the "Aaj News" profile).

Of course you can change it in terms of style/grammar to fit it more with Wikipedia guidelines (English is not my mother tongue).

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A03F:6504:1700:3089:F5C3:1F13:98E5 (talk) 18:27, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done Xan747 (talk) 03:57, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi thanks there's also a little thing to add and I thought it wasn't worth adding a topic if you could it there.

Basically in the main article his full name is "Syed Asim Munir Ahmed Shah"

But in the infobox it's only "Asim Munir Ahmed Shah" so I thought adding "Syed" would be interesting especially as in the native language it's there (سَیِد عاصم منیر احمد شاہ)

Thanks. 2A02:A03F:6504:1700:1129:B69C:1C57:92E6 (talk) 19:07, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Controversies text

It seems the 'Controversies' text is written entirely by some zealot from Pakistan Tehreek Insaf (PTI) party and therefore this section should be declared as disputed. Mhikhalid (talk) 09:04, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Firstpost is an inaccurate biased source in view of pakistani affairs 39.32.158.110 (talk) 19:46, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Indian media references in "Controversies" part

Please check the "Controversies" part, the PTI anti-state goons are now using the most untrusted media's references (Indian media) to defame the country and the Army chief. 39.55.252.56 (talk) 22:47, 11 July 2023 (UTC)