Talk:Pantothenic acid

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Untitled

There is a substantial body of literature that argues for Vitamin A reduction of acne, and there are also documented cases of high-dose B vitamins /causing/ acne: PMID 1834437 --crl620 04:49, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

The ref mention of B-vitamins was not about pantothenic acid David notMD (talk) 11:42, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

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Rewrite

This article needs a complete rewrite. There is little information actually pertaining to Pantothenic acid, and lots of random junk about Dr. Lit-Hung Leung's research.

Dr. Leung

The 'study' performed by Dr. Lit-Hung Leung is extremely vague, published in a rediculous journal, and used commonly to sell B5 pills. The wiki page reads like an infomercial:

"Though this study was done in 1997, news did not spread...however, by word of mouth and eventually the internet, success stories have came in by the thousands..."

Here's the Leung article: PMID 7476595

It was published in the journal "Medical Hypotheses," which is described on their site as:

"Medical Hypotheses takes a deliberately different approach to peer review. Most contemporary practice tends to discriminate against radical ideas that conflict with current theory and practice. Medical Hypotheses will publish radical ideas, so long as they are coherent and clearly expressed. Furthermore, traditional peer review can oblige authors to distort their true views to satisfy referees, and so diminish authorial responsibility and accountability. In Medical Hypotheses, the authors' responsibility for the integrity, precision and accuracy of their work is paramount. The editor sees his role as a 'chooser', not a 'changer': choosing to publish what are judged to be the best papers from those submitted."

It looks like it's a journal without any review system.

Other Issues

Overall the data on the wiki are poorly cited and shallow.

The wiki lacks clear scientific evidence and has no sources (minus the link to "Coenzyme-A Technologies", a company selling skin products).

Legitimate and well regarded sources tend to disagree with some of the suggestions on the wiki page. The Pauling Institute describes pantothenic acid as helping to heal skin wounds, whereas the wiki article says that "Some users report that cuts heal very slowly."

Some key facts about pantothenic acid are missing, such as recent research, absorption as d-Calcium pantothenate, chemical structure, and metabolism. As Dan| says below, the information about metabolism and "part of Coenzyme-A" makes no sense. To answer Dan's question, the pantothenate is a CoA precursor: KEGG CoA Pathway

This article needs to be substantially rewritten.

Could someone please edit the painfully anthropomorphic "Insulin receptors are acylated with palmitic acid when they do not want to bind with insulin.[22] " Joel1947 (talk) 18:25, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes about the want to part, change it to acylation decreases binding of insulin to its receptors. FeritTuzer (talk) 08:12, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Older Talk

Regarding "It is also needed for proper and healthy growth of hair," is this here because certain shampoo companies say it's true or because it's actually the case? All I can find are suggestions that the use of this chemical in shampoos has no effect, eg [1] - 203.132.90.8 03:39, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

From personal experience: it is actually the case.78.151.26.19 (talk) 03:02, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

"Specifically, it is part of coenzyme-A (CoASH) in the metabolism and transfer of carbon chains."

That sentence dosn't seem to make any sense. --Dan|^(talk) 15:16, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

B5

Using B5 as a treatment to acne really does work. I myself have had amazing results from it, and I am also aware of several other successful cases. I can't agree or disagree with the reasoning behind it, but there is little point arguing its effectiveness having seen the dramatic changes it has had.

a Pantothenic Acid Based Dietary Supplement found effective for Acne Blemishes in an open-label study

Journal of Cosmetics, Dermatological Sciences and Applications, 2012, 2, 132-135 doi:10.4236/jcdsa.2012.23026

www.scirp.org/fileOperation/downLoad.aspx?path=JCDSA20120300001_63880780.pdf&type=journal

"Conclusions: The results from this study indicated that the administration of a pantothenic based dietary supplement in healthy human adults with mild to moderate acne vulgaris is feasible, safe and well tolerated. Secondary analysis shows that administration of the study agent significantly reduced global facial blemishes. Further randomized, placebo-controlled trials are warranted."

thiamine—1.5 mg, riboflavin—1.7 mg, niacin—20 mg, pyridoxine—2 mg, folic acid—400 mgc, cyanoco-balamin—6 mcg, biotin—300 mcg, pantothenic acid— 2.2 g and L-carnitine—733.3 mg. : half of these a day

slightly relevant to the article

Prescription?

From the article, under disputed uses -> acne

"few if any dermatologists prescribe high-dose pantothenic acid."

Admittedly, few dermatologists (or any doctors, for that matter) prescribe pantothenic acid, but isn't that simply because one cannot prescribe things like vitamins/mineral/herbal supplements? A deficiency in Vitamin C, for example, can produce scurvy, however doctors wouldn't be able to prescribe you Vitamin C. They would, most likely, recommend it.

Also, perhaps someone could add that while studies are scarce, a large amount anecdotal evidence seems to support pantothenic acid's positive effects on acne? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.132.210.179 (talk) 03:37, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

Yes, doctors do prescribe vitamins. My doctor prescribed me vitamin C tablets for my knee ligaments, even though he said "The use of this is controversial". He meant I was wasting my time and his.78.151.26.19 (talk) 03:00, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

If he did not write a prescription or send it to a pharmacy, it was a recommendation. David notMD (talk) 13:48, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Biological half-life of the Acid?

Ben. Ben-Natan (talk) 04:21, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Hair care

The article says this stuff doesn't do anything for hair. This is just wrong. If I take pantothenic acid for two days my hair is thicker. My nails also grow noticeably faster, almost to the point where it's a nuisance.78.151.26.19 (talk) 02:55, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

There are no published human trials in the scientific literature (at least none come up from a search on pantothenic acid x hair). Basically, this means not proven or disproven. What is needed is a placebo-controlled, blinded trial of several months duration. Until then, anecdotal, as in "It works for me." is not sufficient. Same applies to any claims for pantothenic acid in shampoo or conditioner.David notMD (talk) 12:24, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

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Dietary Reference Intakes

I am creating the same format for DRIs for all B vitamins. That is a U.S.- based system that identifies Estimated Average Requirements (EARs), Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDAs), Adequate Intakes (AIs) if there is not enough information to establish EARs and RDAs, and Tolerable Upper Intake Levels (ULs). Another major regulatory agency that has established ULs is the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA). ULs for both are provided, as they often differ. If there is a UL (for some vitamins none has been determined) then rationale is covered in a Toxicity section. In addition to DRIs, the U.S. also established Daily Value, using it on food and dietary supplement labels as % DV. DVs were based on older RDAs and as of 2016 have never been updated to reflect the newer DRIs. Thus, often a product that has 100% DV and greater than 100% RDA. Examples given for each vitamin. What I have written can be improved. It lacks EFSA or other major country RDAs. It lacks an estimate of what percentages of people are deficient - although that is often covered in a separate section on deficiency and consequences of deficiency. I am creating this Subject in all of the Talk pages of the vitamin entries I have edited. Comments and improvements are welcome. David notMD (talk) 12:16, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

All vitamins and nutritionally essential minerals being changed from Dietary reference intakes to Dietary recommendations, as that is not a USA-only term. European Union information being added. David notMD (talk) 20:38, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Infobox Crosses & Checkmarks

I glanced at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Chemicals/Chembox_validation, but I don't understand why many of those IDs are reported "changed", when they match the linked sites. --Diblidabliduu (talk) 20:53, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

Improving article

Working to bring article to be closer to state of completeness seen in B-class and GA vitamin articles. David notMD (talk) 11:39, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Nominated for GA. Article as it exists is much shorter than other vitamins that are GA or B-class, but that is because there is much less in the way of science published about this vitamin, as deficiency in humans is near-impossible, and claims for the vitamin as a dietary supplement are not supported by reliable-source literature. Of the vitamins, this is the shortest article, and with the fewest references. David notMD (talk) 15:10, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Pantothenic acid/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: HaEr48 (talk · contribs) 02:31, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Reviewing. HaEr48 (talk) 02:31, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for taking on this review. Looking forward to working with you. Appears you will also be busy with your GA nominations! David notMD (talk) 08:02, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for writing this interesting article. Re my GA nominations, lol I have been waiting for them sitting idle, and now suddenly I have three in review :) I'll manage somehow. As for this article, in general it is in good shape, but I have some feedback especially for clarity and completeness. My feedback is below:

• The anion is called pantothenate: I worry that the relevance/meaning of this statement is lost for general readers, and for people familiar with acids it might be already obvious. Is it possible to explain further, or else remove ?
  • Removed the sentence "The anion is called pantothenate." from the Lede, as it is not elaborated on in the body of the article.David notMD (talk) 21:56, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
• Before we go through the biological role etc. could we add a section about the molecular structure or definition, its chemical properties and functional groups, etc? Is it a single compound, or is it a group of related molecules?
  • Added a Definition section at beginning of the article, incorporating those aspects. David notMD (talk) 21:56, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
• The synthesis of CoA from pantothenic acid is down-regulated by the concentration of CoA and acetyl-Co: Can we have a link for "down-regulated", or use an easier-to-understand way to describe it?
  • Better explanation as separate paragraph. David notMD (talk) 16:07, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
• Is it possible to describe how and where the synthesis of CoA from pantothenic acid happens, or which enzymes/pathways are involved?
  • CoA synthesis information copied from Coenzyme A. David notMD (talk) 16:07, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
• CoA is important in energy metabolism : would a link to metabolism be appropriate here?
  • Biological roles better defined, but Wikilinking to Metabolism would be too vague. David notMD (talk) 19:50, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
• "Pantothenic acid in the form of CoA": Isn't it a COA a distinct compound that is synthesized from p. acid and as opposed to a "form" it?
  • Sentence changed. David notMD (talk) 16:07, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
• Food sources of pantothenic acid include animal-sourced foods: Is it possible to enumerate which animal-sourced foods? Or do all animal foods (including meat, eggs and milk) contain it?
  • All animal-sourced foods, included milk and eggs. Sentence revised to state this and appropriate ref used. David notMD (talk) 17:07, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
• Last statement of #Supplements is unreferenced. Also, it would be interesting to see more explanation why pantothenic acid supplement is a thing if its deficiency is extremely rare. Are there traditional uses of the vitamin that are disproved or not corroborated by science?
  • Added sentence and ref (WebMD)for mention of many conditions for which a supplement benefit has been claimed, but scientific evidence not sufficient. David notMD (talk) 19:37, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
• pantothenic acid deficiency is so rare : is there a quantitative measure of how rare?
  • Ref #9 (ODS) has "Pantothenic acid deficiency is very rare in the United States." but no details and no reference for that statement. Likewise, ref #10 (Present Knowledge...) states "...deficiency of this vitamin in humans is very rare." again, with no details or reference. Descriptions of deficiency specifically of pantothenic acid (in Present Knowledge) are of POWs held by Japan in WWII and in experiments in which deficiency was induced by combining a low PA diet with a PA blocking compound. Changed wording in article to "Very rare." David notMD (talk) 19:18, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
• First para of "Dietary recommendations" is unreferenced.
  • Ref added, it's the DRI ref.
• Within the lumen of the intestine: link "lumen"?
  • Done. David notMD (talk) 17:07, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
• Coenzyme A is hydrolyzed to pantothenic acid, then excreted intact in urine: Maybe add "Waste coenzyme A is hydrolyzed …" or something similar, to clarify that this is a totally different process than the absorption.
  • Excretion sentence revised so no mention of coenzyme A.
• Any description of how deficiency is treated?
  • Deficiency of just B5 is very rare. If diagnosed, would be treated with oral B5. If present, B4 deficiency more likely to be occurring in combination with multiple nutrient deficiencies, so treatment would be with an oral vitamin B complex. (from Present Knowledge ref).
• No dietary requirement for pantothenic acid has been established: Add "for ruminants"? The sentence could be taken to mean in general.
• Done. David notMD (talk) 14:50, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
• History: any idea since when/why it was considered one of the B vitamins?
  • Text and refs added to describe how water soluble vitamins were first called "B vitamin" and later identified as eight different vitamins, with pantothenic acid named B5. David notMD (talk) 11:08, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
    • An editor removed the ref as being not WP:RS. Searching for replacement. David notMD (talk) 14:50, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
      • Existing ref Combs2007 provides a reliable source ref for vitamin history
• Suggest adding page number to books to make it easy for cross referencing, e.g. Voet D, Voet JG, Pratt CW. Also the citation of this books suggest that the original book is cited, but the link is to a student companion book, could you clarify?
  • References for books without page numbers: Voet, Gropper, Combs, Natl Research. Cannot identify page numbers for Voet, so Present Knowledge in Nutrition substituted. Added page numbers for the others. David notMD (talk) 16:07, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

--Thank you. HaEr48 (talk) 23:06, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

HaEr48I believe I have addressed all of this set of requests/queries. David notMD (talk) 20:25, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

@David notMD: Thank you for the updates. I have read the article again and I believe it is ready for GA status. HaEr48 (talk) 16:59, 3 July 2020 (UTC)