Talk:Tmutarakan

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Tmutarakan was a Geography and places good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
January 20, 2007	Good article nominee	Not listed

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"Title of rank"

Does Room really say that "Tamantarkan" means "title of rank"? I think the reference is misunderstood. Tamantarkan would appear to mean "General of the Taman" which would be a title of rank. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 16:26, 7 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this what he says. In the source, "title of rank" is in quotes. Beit Or 17:24, 7 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Some helpful maps of the peninsula may be found here. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 22:53, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

GA concerns

Nice article you have here. It has some issues though, mostly related to formatting.

Please make sure the lead sections conforms to WP:LEAD.
- You can remove the sentence "In the modern Russian language, "tmutarakan" stands for "a distant and obscure province".", as it is just a detail
- Probably good if you mention what years the city existed
- Please expand it with at least two sentences.
What does the reference to " Brook __." mean?
Do you have a reference to the statement "(possibly in connection connected to the conversion of Vladimir I of Kiev which took place during roughly at the same time)", or is it original speculation?
How come there are no inline references to the section "Decline"?
I also find it peculiar to have a coin as first image, and not the map (the map looks really good).

Fred-Chess 12:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Current usage and metaphor

For Muscovites today, the location is apparently translated/referred to as the "place of darkness" and used at a symbol or metaphor for a place that is very remote and distasteful, according to a description in "Biohazard: The Chilling True Story of the Largest Covert Biological Weapons" By Ken Alibek, Stephen Handelman, p. 15. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.71.72.70 (talk) 22:16, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Failed

Sorry, I must fail by now. You are welcome to resubmit once the concerns have been addressed.

Fred-Chess 00:54, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Relevance

There is absolutely no justification for including a detailed history of the Bosporan kingdom in this article since the kingdom was based on the neighbouring city of Phanagoria. It made little sense even when the original article was about Hermonassa, but Tmutarakan is a name chiefly associated with the Russian trading outpost and the article has been rewritten to reflect this.Mzilikazi1939 (talk) 08:49, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Source

The original article here, the source of several speculations that count as original research on WP, was a word for word translation of the Encyclopédie Française available online. One presumes that the mainly Russian references were gathered from that source too. I have tried to provide English-language sources and have deleted what cannot be verified or is less focussed. Mzilikazi1939 (talk) 12:45, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Greek etymology?

Tmutarakan § Etymology mentions the Greek phrase Τομη΄τα΄τιχα, which is indeed what the given reference says. However, when I checked up on what Jean Richard wrote (p. 248, footnote 79) the phrase is mentioned in as Τομη ταριχα. It also doesn't appear to be referenced in relation to the etymology of the name by Jean Richard, although that is the context in which the article's reference mentions it. It's possible the version Jean Richard's work I looked at has a misprint which the article's reference corrects, or perhaps the latter misread the source? I'm not fluent in French or Greek, so perhaps I've misunderstood something. Does anyone know anything that may clear this up? – Scyrme (talk) 20:16, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The first source mentions that the etymology comes from Jean Richard, but the garbled version of Richard's Τομη΄ταριχα there is most probably a misprint. Both authors also mention the meaning as a place for fish-curing (or drying, in French les sécheries). I've corrected the section in light of this. Sweetpool50 (talk) 21:32, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I think you're right. After I asked, I did some more searching around which led me to find a similar word, "τάριχος", which has senses related to dried fish according to online dictionaries, so "ταριχα" seems more likely to be correct. – Scyrme (talk) 21:55, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]