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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by G026r (talk | contribs) at 22:01, 11 March 2024 (→Derisive "traditionalists" throughout article). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Name

So what's the point of having a French spelling as the main entry for a Provençal word in an English encyclopedia?

As of today French is (by far) more spoken than Provencal in Provence thus French spelling is the most widely used. At second though if the word is an English dictionnary in that case I think we may have move the article to aioli again. Ericd 13:57, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I just wanted to refer to the introduction and definition on Aioli. It says it is commonly used in Australia with hot chips. Well, I am a 60 year old Australian, and I have never, I repeat never, seen it used that way. (Off the record, I do become disgruntled at the rubbish said and written about Australia - so much is entirely inaccurate) Gotoit2 (talk) 02:01, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am Australian and I have seen it that way in top end restaurants but to call it a "common" use is absurd. 120.156.8.84 (talk) 03:38, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Extended content

Raw Egg?!

Gross, that's unsanitary. No wonder it's not considered "kosher" you could get salmonella! Gross Gross Gross!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.172.24 (talk) 07:59, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

^^^Wow what an amazingly academic insight. Anyway, don't see here who wants to merge this with the article on aioli, but I would advise against it in order to achieve Wikipedia's goal of non-bias. Moving it there would be Eurocentric and make it more difficult for people trying to find out about Arab cuisine to find this page.DichotomyOfFalsehood (talk) 21:34, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Valencian & Catalan

I would like to point out that it's extremely common in Andalucia as well. Until I read this I just assumed it was a local thing. I have nothing to cite for this except that it's just everywhere. Noisejunky (talk) 18:45, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's really necessary to add "VALENCIAN" to every "Catalan"? Jeez, talk about an inferiority complex. --85.155.193.98 16:47, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you look at the Alioli page in Spanish at Alioli, they say the word derives from Valenciano, not Catalan. Moreover, that page claims the dish's recipe that stands today is Valencian, not from Catalonia. What do you think? I would trust the Spanish version more, but who knows.Clarkseth 04:12, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Valenciano and Catalan are sister languages and are written almost exactly the same. As a Catalan I understand 99% of spoken Valencian where as a Valencians can have more trouble understanding Catalan because the pronunciation is different and Catalan is more “closed” in the way it’s spoken. To give an example a lot of Brits have trouble understanding people from Liverpool or even harder Scottish. About the alioli, alioli is oil and garlic if you what a bit of lemon juice and salt. Adding egg is Mayonnaise with garlic. Simple as that.

Catalan is the language and Valenciano is one of its dialects (in the same way as English and American English). In fact, in Catalonia several dialects are spoken, e.g. Central Catalan (in Barcelona). But the differences in pronunciation make the spoken understanding a quite difficult. The Valenciano has a set of vowels very similar to the spanish, while the Central Catalan has vowels that doesn't exists on Spanish. That makes a Central Catalan Speaker to understand the Valenciano, but a Valenciano speaker has quite problems to understand the Central Catalan. The discussion about the Valenciano and Catalan is more about a political topic than philological. --Jose piratilla (talk) 11:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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Mayo

This may just be speculation on my part, but in most American fine dining it seems that aioli (with eggs) is used in places where mayonnaise would normally in order to avoid people's preconceived opinions about mayonnaise. I'm not sure if this is a common thing in the US outside of California, though, so I'd like other people's perspective.Jorkusmalorkus (talk) 09:13, 23 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I never knew anyone to have such strong feelings about mayonnaise; exactly what preconceived opinions would those be?

67.142.172.24 (talk) 07:54, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That mayo is fatty and unhealthy. It also appears on a lot of chain restaurant menus to make it sound like a fancier, gourmet ingredient is being used instead of "just mayo with some stuff mixed in." Also, I learned that aioli uses only oil to emulsify whereas mayo uses both egg yolks and oil. I think that the lead-in is incorrect in saying that aioli is (1) a kind of mayonnaise that (2) (typically) uses eggs. However, in my experience, many restaurants just use mayonnaise with some flavorings mixed in, instead of making aioli in house, to save prep time and cost.
Personal observation: in America, it is becoming more and more common to see any flavored-mayonnaise called "aioli," probably because it sounds fancier. Language drift -- soon the word will have lost any useful meaning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.190.244.215 (talk) 06:36, 2 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

French Cuisine

Is Aioli really a French cuisine? Your response would be appreciated. 76.213.255.67 (talk) 23:46, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

- In fact I thought it came from Italian Aglio e Oglio - Oil and garlic! - Betomg.

- YES! Aioli is commonly associated with Provençe and Marseille, France. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gadjoproject (talk • contribs) 13:43, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Composition

The introductory paragraph specifies that aioli is made from egg, garlic, & olive oil.

The third paragraph describes the preparation of aioli and specifies egg, garlic, olive oil & lemon juice.

Should not lemon juice be included in the introductory paragraph as a primary ingredient? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.245.154.156 (talk) 17:02, 19 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Traditional Where?

Just noting I was reading through the article, it says it's a traditional food but doesn't say traditional from where. Only hints were Occitan and Provence mentions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.129.101.144 (talk) 20:13, 4 December 2011 (UTC) [reply]

Extended content
It's generically traditional. --86.167.141.239 (talk) 23:59, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Extended content

Against Aioli

There's a new movement gaining traction against aioli http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2015/04/03/against-aioli/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.54.50.22 (talk) 01:06, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ingredients

There seems to be some dispute about whether egg yolk and lemon juice are a standard ingredient in aioli. So I looked at some good books on Provençal cooking:

  • J.-B. Reboul, La Cuisinière Provençale 1910 (1st edition); 1989 (25th edition), p. 88 — This is generally considered "the classic".
  • Robert Courtine, The Hundred Glories of French Cooking (tr. Derek Coldman), 1973, p. 140
  • Henri Philippon, Cuisine de Provence, 1977 (2nd ed), p. 20
  • Mireille Johnston, The Cuisine of the Sun, 1976
  • Prosper Montagné, Larousse Gastronomique (1938, tr. 1961), s.v. — This is generic French rather than specifically Provençal

and this is what I found:

Author garlic cloves egg yolks oil lemon other
Reboul 2 1 50cl one lemon water, salt
Courtine 16 (5 oz.) 4 25cl squeeze 2 boiled potatoes, salt
Philippon 6 1 75cl some water, salt
Johnston 8-10 2 37cl one lemon white pepper
Montagné 4 1 25 cl — salt

The proportions are all over the place, but all these recipes include egg yolk, and almost all include lemon juice. --Macrakis (talk) 19:56, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

None of those books, even the Reboul, comply with the true original recipe which calls only for ail (garlic) + oil. Those two ingredients are enough to make an emulsion (mixing immiscible liquids: i.e. here oil and water contained in the garlic - Refer e.g. Molecular Gastronomy by Hervé This ). Making the emulsion and keeping it stable is an art. Adding egg (white or yolk) help stabilize it, hence its use in today's recipes. Yet the true thing does not contain eggs, let alone lemon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by YPLeroux (talk • contribs)

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asfd

The opening paragraph should mention that its a sauce of garlic, olive oil and egg yolks because that's pretty fuckin significant difference between just garlic and olive oil.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.224.176.47 (talk) 16:28, 10 April 2016‎ (UTC)[reply]

For your information, allioli doesn't contain any egg. It contains only garlic and olive oil, and that is what form the name: all i oli (literally means: garlic and oil) in catalan. And there is some recipes (allioli de codony) that include quince, but that's an exception. 37.133.34.252 (talk) 20:34, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The canonical recipe contains no egg yolk

I hate the the introduction paragraph first lists a recipe for flavored mayo, and then as an aside, the canonical recipe, which contains no yolks. One needs only look at the word itself. Even though it is now commonly used as a synonym for flavored mayo, eggs, oil, and salt should be the first recipe, with the rest as variations, not the other way around. -2600:1700:2660:FD0:950D:E4C1:6C27:8E02 (talk) 22:45, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Dangling ref

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Derisive "traditionalists" throughout article

Ita odd that throughout the article, the tone seems to lament "traditionalists" and frames them as contrarians. The problem is that there is no "history" section that shows the evolution of the term, and there needs to be. There is an original recipe and method, and it's not some archaic food. Just as anything in a cocktail glass is now dubbed a "martini", nevertheless, gin and vermouth makes a martini, traditionalists not required. Aioli is garlic oil and salt, and anything else is a later addition or riff. They're all valid, but as an encyclopedia, this has a major tone issue. 189.216.40.154 (talk) 18:24, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The biggest problem in my view is is that all the arguments made on the talk page for not including eggs in the article description are all backed by references to "the traditional recipe", "the canonical recipe", "the original recipe", etc, yet never is any source provided.
Even the source currently in the article for this view, a 2008 cookbook, is just "purists say" — and then goes on to differentiate between allioli and aioli:

Spanish purists insist that the ultimate all-i-oli (also called ajoaceite) is made only from garlic cloves, pounded to a paste in a mortar, and olive oil, added drop by drop to make a thick sauce. This old-fashioned method requires not a little skill and a saint's patience. Most modern cooks use a machine and an egg, so today all all-i-oli is basically a very garlicky mayonnaise, quite similar to aïoli.

So right now, barring any other sources that show a traditional recipe without eggs, "purists say" or "traditionalists say" would seem in my eyes to be correct. — g026r (talk) 22:01, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"it is found in the cuisines of the northwest Mediterranean, from Valencia to Nice"

I don't have a source to establish that regular use of aioli extends well beyond Nice, but the claim that it stops at Nice does not sound at all credible. I know from personal experience (the despicable "original research") that in the other direction it doesn't stop at Valencia. Some adjustment is needed in the text, with good sources. Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 16:15, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It would be easiest to remove this over-specific statement completely, and rely on what is said in the next paragraph about regions of origin. Ponsonby100 (talk) 16:18, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Done. --Jotamar (talk) 17:33, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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