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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 2601:902:4301:2010:89b5:fc84:cb87:7016 (talk) at 21:36, 26 March 2024 (→Cartridge storage: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Cartridge storage

What is to be gained by having the system return the empty cartridges to be stored? --Hooperbloob 22:06, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is primarily done for weight and balance reasons. Imagine how much 800 rounds of this ammo weighs, now, imagine it is stored in the drum in the front end of the jet.. now, remove that 800 rounds.. you can't do that with an aircraft it has to be balanced fore and aft. which is why all of the bombs and missiles are right near the center of the aircraft 2601:902:4301:2010:89B5:FC84:CB87:7016 (talk) 21:36, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This prevents any danger of the ejected cartridge cases striking the airframe and causing damage.

F-35 gun

My understanding was that the gun for the F35 was a variant of the Mauser 27mm which was being modified by Boeing. I had heard that the GUA-12 was being looked at but the 27mm was the favoured solution technically. Possible that a political decision on buy American has been made though since the last information I received. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.8.248.2 (talk • contribs)

Hogwash. As you can see, the GAU-12 and the M-51 are both based upon a Norwegian design. Let's not go painting an entire country a bunch of nationalist fascists. At least not without a source. ... aa:talk 01:09, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Hogwash. As you can see, the GAU-12 and the M-51 are both based upon a Norwegian design. Let's not go painting an entire country a bunch of nationalist fascists. At least not without a source. ... aa:talk 01:09, 4 December 2006 (UTC)"

Wow, aggressive response indeed! I am sorry but this is wrong, the multi purpose ammo that is being used is based on a Norwegian design, not the guns. My comment was that politically Americans like to buy American products from American companies, nothing wrong with that and it is good business to keep skills and useful product lines inhouse so to speak, something the UK could do with emulating sometimes. Did you actually read my post properly or were you just goading for a fight aa:talk? If you come back to view this sometime and apology would be nice as I was doing anything but criticising the US. Boeing was the company heavily pushing a solution based on the Mauser 27mm and had an excellent engineered solution for both their aircraft and the F35 but with them losing looks like the 27mm round went down with them regardless of it's faster response time, longer range and greater kill power. Still, going 25mm is a big improvement of sticking with the old 20mm round.

There were main two drivers in the switch from the BK-27 to the GAU-12 (and ultimately to the GAU-22). The first is cost, the GAU-12 system was significantly less expensive than the BK-27 system. Second was the combination of reliability and maintainability. The reliability of the continuous-motion GAU-12 is roughly 5 times that of the intermittent-motion BK-27. The BK-27 also requires removal, cleaning and parts replacement much more often than does the GAU-12. The operation & support cost difference is significant. VTFirefly911 05:36, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

RoF vs Ammo load?

Why the huge rate of fire and tiny, tiny ammo loadout? 180 bullets on a $20m fighter? Wtheck?

Well, let me guess: The huge rate of fire is necessary to keep the rounds in the target while the airplane is moving sometimes at an extreme high speed, sometimes even supersonic speed. The ammo load is limited due to space and weight constrictions on the airplanes. --134.155.99.42 (talk) 22:12, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The U-model gunship can hold 2,000 rounds so it's used more as an area supression weapon in that role. Following the FAS link you'll read it also has applications for ground anti-aircraft weapon systems which are less limimted to thee number of rounds it can carry. Additionally the high rate of fire allows you to use several types of ammunition in the aircraft simultaniously, so you can pack armor piercing, incendiary and high explosive rounds to suit all applications, rather than a 30mm cannon with a lower rate of fire. St Aidan 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Picture

How about a picture? I have no idea how this weapon looks like, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. -- xompanthy 19:42, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I've added a picture. You can find a lot of information about various weapons systems by using the flag "-site:mil" and "-site:.gov" in Google. A cheat sheet for all the available operators is here. ... aa:talk 01:10, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That picture isn't of a GAU-12/U. The GAU-12/U only has five barrels. That is a picture of an M61 cannon. See here http://www.gdatp.com/products/PDFs/GAU-12U.pdf I'm deleting this picture and correcting the article information on this matter. -- Thatguy96 04:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
On Commons there is a supposed photo of GAU-12/U but it shows six barrels. If it's good, it should be used in this article. But if it's bad (i.e. the gun pictured is not GAU-12/U) then its title should be corrected directly on Commons. This picture is also used in the Wikidata item for GAU-12 so the correction should also be applied there. 192.198.151.36 (talk) 11:58, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There is a picture on General Dynamics official page that has been "Approved for Public Release" (link). Is this a sufficient claim for adding the picture to Wikipedia under some image licensing scheme? I feel the description is ambiguous... it could just be "approved for public release" as in "unclassified". Thoughts? This page could really use a decent picture.  Amit  ►  18:09, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm confused about this, the Gau-12 is described as a 5 barreled cannon, and this can be seen in video footage, with the Gau-22 being described as a 4 barreled cannon, yet the header picture for this page depicts a cannon with 6 barrels. Unless this is some prototype (in which case that's not clear), then it would appear that the gun in the header image is actually an M61 Vulcan cannon. Either way, it seems that this article can use a better image for its header, the previous links in this thread are near 12 year olds by now and are well and truly dead. --217.209.145.79 (talk) 03:43, 10 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ammo load

The Harrier II carries the Equalizer system in a pair of pods mounted on the fuselage sides, with the cannon in the port pod and 300 rounds of ammunition

Is this correct? At the rate of fire of 3,600 rounds per minute, this is only enough for five seconds of fire? (moved from text by BillCJ) - BillCJ 17:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, rarely do aicraft fitted with "gatling" style weapons have more than 4-7 "seconds worth" of ammunition. The largest capacity I know of was on the F-105 Thunderchief, which had ammunition for over 10 seconds of sustained fire. -- Thatguy96 04:31, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is fairly typical for modern aircraft. The F-16 carries 511 rounds with a 6,000-spm rate of fire, the F/A-18E & F carry 412 rounds with a dual rate of fire selectable between 4,000 and 6,000 spm, the F-15E carries 500 rounds with the same selectable rates of fire, and the F-22A carries 480 rounds with a 6,000-spm rate of fire. All translate to 4-5 seconds of firing (all data from www.gdatp.com). VTFirefly911 05:43, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to GAU-12/U

The complete alpha-numeric portion of the designation for this weapon is GAU-12/U. The /U is not a seperate variant, it is the only variant. There is no six-barrel version of this weapon either, the Global Security entry which is unsourced is incorrect and does not match published print sources or the manufacturer's specifications. Furthermore, the GS entry notes this "six-barrel" version as being fitted to the AC-130. The AC-130U uses a five-barrel GAU-12/U. -- Thatguy96 04:30, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GAU-22

Anyone know what the differences are between the GAU-12 and the GAU-22? --Jaewonnie (talk) 22:40, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The GAU-12 has 5-barrels, while the GAU-22 has four. - BillCJ (talk) 01:46, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Weight

Hi,

sorry for my bad english, especially when you want to get information in such a complex thing it is hard sometimes, I'm checking out the weight of bullets for some time now. Most goes back to World War 2 when machine guns or "machine cannon" like we would call everything with 20mm or more today where the only weapon in most cases. I know there have been some unguided rockets on german and I'm sure on allied side too, but the bomber crews had crazy amounts of MG, I think the B-24 was flying with 10 Browning M2 Guns (in use until today called "fifty" I think? 0.50 inch, 12.7x99mm), some crews if they expected "big trouble" took even 12 or up to 14 I have read.

I don't know if it true or if you find enough holes to fire 12 or 14 machine guns. The Browning M2 has an empty weight of 38.14 kg. That is the reason why in Vietnam the soldier who had the very hard job to carry the weapon for a few miles never had the amunition and I think he didn't take other things, carry over 38kg and maybe run with it is hard enough, there were at least 2 guys they were close to him and they had belts with 50 or 100 (don't know) bullets for the weapon, I think many people see pics and think this was kind of "rambo" or to be cool, but they don't know that a soldier alone wasn't able to carry the Browning M2 and 100 bullets,

now we got rockets everywhere in the air fight, I think even the modern "birds" got one machine cannon with a few rounds (150-300), but only on helicopters MG's remain extreme important.

In the article there is the information:

The complete installation, which includes a double-ended feed system that returns empty cartridges to the magazine, weighs 900 lb (410 kg) empty and 1,230 lb (560 kg) loaded.

In the article is also mentioned that this is for 300 rounds. Making 150kg for 300 rounds, so 500 gramm per round is correct?! I found on another website the information for 5 types of 25mm amunition that can be used for the M242 MG:

Projectile Weight

4.73 oz (134 g)

6.53 oz (185 g)

6.42 oz (182 g)

3.35 oz (95 g)

3.39 oz (96 g)

Cartridge Weight

16.15 oz (458 g)

17.67 oz (501 g)

17.67 oz (501 g)

14.81 oz (420 g)

16.01 oz (454 g)

Can someone explain this?! So if this gun fires 1 round only (lets take the heaviest projectile from above) 185g from the 458g "leave" the system?! Since empty cartridges are returned into a magazine? Or how much is the weight of the round when it leaves the gun?! Greetings Kilon22 (talk) 05:56, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Indented line

The 185g projectile leaves the gun down the barrel along with some propellant gas mass, and the remainder of the 458g cartridge weight (minus projectile weight and minus propellant weight) is cycled through into the ammunition stowage. The "empty" figure will refer to a completely unloaded system - upon returning to base, as the ammunition is restocked, the spent cartridges will also be removed from the pod.81.101.221.187 (talk) 02:07, 20 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

GAU-22 gun accuracy

The GAU-22 is claimed in the article to have an accuracy of 1.4 miliradians. This is not strictly correct, and the source provided has since expired.
According to the manufacturer (the site originally sourced before some company change), it does achieve 1.4 miliradians - but only over a "1-sigma radius" - this is approximate to the accuracy of forty percent (39.7%) of rounds fired. Whilst theoretically a good indicator of the performance of the gun, it should be more proper to use the 80% accuracy figure cited by the manufacturer of 5 miliradians, either in place of or alongside the quoted 1.4mr figure.
This 5mr figure for 80% of rounds is identical to the GAU-12 from which the GAU-22 derives, and also the GAU-8 30mm gun.
http://www.gd-ots.com/armament_systems/mbw_GAU-22A.html
http://www.gd-ots.com/armament_systems/ags_A-10.html
http://www.gd-ots.com/armament_systems/mbw_GAU-12U.html81.101.221.187 (talk) 02:03, 20 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The source is archived on Wayback. And yes, it seems you are right. I added the "dubious" tag as the info within the source doesn't confirm "improved accuracy". 192.198.151.36 (talk) 12:34, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone ahead and made the article change to remove the claim; while it is potentially possible that the most accurate ~40% of rounds fired from a GAU-22 are more accurate than the most accurate ~40% from a GAU-12 (at which point one could claim that the GAU-22 is more accurate), I simply can't find 1-sigma data on the GAU-12 to suggest that they differ in accuracy. Due to the common comparisons made between the F-35's GAU-22 and A-10's GAU-8 I've also briefly mentioned that (in addition to the GAU-12) the 5 milliradian, 80% accuracy is also equal to that of the GAU-8. Dragon029 (talk) 00:02, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Multiple rifled barrels? 5 or 6 barrels? (March 2022)

The image has a 25mm GAU-12 Equalizer but six barrels? Is that the second variant of the gun? JaFryingPan (talk) 23:39, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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