Talk:Erwin Helmchen

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Any further citations or references?

Is it enough to list just one site, rsssf.com? There are no other articles, references for this supposed all time record goalscorer? Where is the Infobox, club and national goals statistics? Very poor article and not good enough for Wikipedia surely. If there are no further citations added to back his ludicrous goals total, I would have to create proposal to delete. Feudonym (talk) 20:04, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Unreliable article for deletion

The article does not list basic information such as when he started playing football, when he retired, which clubs he played for and how many titles or honours he won. Furthermore it has very few verifiable and reliable references. As such, it is currently not up to Wikipedia standards.

The article claims he is the highest goal scorer of all time, but with only one site as reference rsssf.com. That site does not list its sources and as such is not reliable on its own. I tried researching myself but could not find anything, and a lot of it was in German.

I could only find out that the team he played for between 1928 and 1945, so between the ages of 21 and 38 which would be his main footballing career, Chemnitzer FC/PSV Chemnitz only won 2 regional leagues (Gauliga Sachsen) in 1935 and 1936, and no German league titles. This does not tally with Helmchen scoring in excess of 980 goals.

This page on the Gauliga Sachsen states that during the eleven years the regional league was running, 10/11 teams only played each other twice, so maximum of 20 games were played per season. This works out at 220 league games in total.

This page states he only played 21 matches in the Central German football championship and 5 matches in DFB Cup.

Neither of these sites back up the claim that Helmchen would have been able to score over 667 goals for PSV Chemnitz or 720 goals in league matches, or 1295 goals in total. Without more reliable evidence, this article should surely be nominated for deletion? Feudonym (talk) 21:08, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Article has been cleaned up somewhat but there are still several inconsistencies, especially regarding the number of appearances, and whether he was actually able to score 667 goals for Chemnitzer PSV, or 981 goals in total in official matches. There were simply not enough league or cup games for those numbers to be realistically achieved. The addition of number of league appearances with citations would greatly help in verifying these claimed numbers. Feudonym (talk) 03:22, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hey

Did he even really exist?

He certainly existed. Whether he scored the most amount of goals of all time at 1200+ is very much debatable. Feudonym (talk) 03:09, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Chemnitzer PSV

Helmchen played for Chemnitzer PSV, which is NOT the same as Chemnitzer BC, they are two separate clubs and in fact rivals! Please see the (French) Wikipedia article on PSV.

Therefore the content under Regional Leagues is is definitely incorrect as it relates to Chemnitzer BC. Feudonym (talk) 04:27, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Created new article for Chemnitzer PSV so now this links to correct club. What is not clear is if he moved to SG Chemnitz Nord between 1945-50, or whether the author was confusing PSV for Chemnitzer FC (then known as SG Chemnitz Nord). I have amended to mention he moved clubs but more clarity/references may be required. Feudonym (talk) 07:14, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Strange, strange, strange

What the article does not say is that this gentleman chose to play with very minor teams. Why? This way he could score a lot of goals! As we say in French: In the country of blind people, the one-eyed man is the king. Nowadays, no one would do that for there is no money to be made in the minor leagues. But he lived in another generation. He probably also broke the record for the soccer player that played at an advanced age. Quite a character this gentleman! :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Erwin_Helmchen&action=editRobert Abitbol

Why to say at least 987 goals and back it up with a table that shows 629 or so?

Have a table showing the “at least” 987 if that is the correct number

Back it up the 140 plus hat tricks….that is stunning but back ii up 2601:58B:1080:7AB0:122:37D1:9A02:B4F (talk) 13:19, 23 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have asked the Bezik Group and they have informed us that Helmchen scored more than 900 goals in official matches and that they will soon publish all the data on their official website 83.51.115.6 (talk) 08:12, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Grupo Bezik aclaims Erwin Helmchen scored more than 900 goals in official games

As a soccer fan, I have asked Grupo Bezik and they have informed us that Helmchen scored more than 900 goals in official matches and that they will soon publish all the data on their official website.