Talk:Capital punishment in Ireland

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Wow Wikipedia. Really? Another article about Ireland that places the blame at the feet of the UK.[edit]

So the British brought the death penalty to Ireland. GTFOH!!

Yet there is no irony when it states that the Irish State was still conducting lots of executions after Independence. Furthermore they were done using the UK's own executioners. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.132.173.103 (talk) 09:51, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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All murder by IRA/INLA was capital murder?[edit]

Section 1(1)(b)) of the Criminal Justice Act 1964 defines "capital murder":

(i) murder of a member of the Garda Síochána acting in the course of his duty, or

(ii) murder of a prison officer acting in the course of his duty, or

(iii) murder done in the course or furtherance of an offence under section 6 , 7 , 8 or 9 of the Offences Against the State Act, 1939 , or in the course or furtherance of the activities of an unlawful organisation within the meaning of section 18 (other than paragraph (f)) of that Act, or

(iv) murder, committed within the State for a political motive, of the head of a foreign State or of a member of the government of, or a diplomatic officer of, a foreign State;

Now, the IRA and INLA were unlawful organisations within the meaning of section 18" of the Offences Against the State Act 1939, and were not AFAIK concerned with "promotes, encourages, or advocates the non-payment of moneys payable to the Central Fund or any other public fund or the non-payment of local taxation" [paragraph (f)] -- this was before Sinn Féin went anti-bin tax. Therefore, all murders ordered by the IRA or INLA were capital murders under 1(1)(b)(iii). Murders of Gardaí/prison officers/diplomats under 1(1)(b)(i)/(ii)/(iv) did not require one to be a member of an unlawful organisation -- e.g. the Murrays convicted of capital murder under 1(1)(b)(i) [later overturned for reasons not relevant to my point here] were not in IRA/INLA. I have added a sentence in relation to the hypothetical capital murder of Tiede Herrema.

It seems the Director of Public Prosecutions adopted a belt-and-braces approach of only charging IRA/INLA members with capital murder if and when it fell under 1(1)(b)(i). So murdering a Garda at a bank raid capital murder; murdering a bank official ordinary murder. The killers of Senator Billy Fox were simultaneously convicted of IRA membership and non-capital murder. I concede the DPP might fear the additional burden of proof in avoiding a defence of "yes I am in the IRA and yes I killed him but I was acting in a private capacity, not as an IRA member"; however, s.3(2) of the 1964 act allowed a consolation prize of ordinary murder if capital murder was not proved:

(2) A person indicted for capital murder may, if the evidence does not warrant a conviction for capital murder but warrants a conviction for murder, be found not guilty of capital murder but guilty of murder and, if the evidence does not warrant a conviction for murder but warrants a conviction for manslaughter, be found not guilty of capital murder but guilty of manslaughter.

If anyone has any WP:RS info on the DPP's thinking in such cases it would be a useful addition. jnestorius^(talk) 02:37, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]