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Chris Crocker (internet celebrity)

Chris Crocker (internet celebrity) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

More crap off teh Internets. Ludicrously thin claim to fame. Escapes speedy ONLY because it *asserts* notability, not actually having it. PROD tag added, but removed without comment by an anon IP. Calton | Talk 13:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Give me a break. The radio show I was listening to on the way to work the day I wrote that was slightly... misinformed. LOL. Turlo Lomon 07:02, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You're not alone. Keith Olbermann made the same mistake: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ubUHbwAzydc Ichormosquito 03:16, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep – Just becuase he got famous on the internet does not make him less notable. Here a Danish newspaper (Ekstrabladet) has an article about Chris on their website, this spread halfway across the globe underlines the notability. --Morten LJ 13:30, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, pay attention: I offer a link to a common -- and widely accepted -- rationale. You, instead of actually addressing the rationale, simply offer up a link about not offering up links -- which makes it not only a rhetorical dodge, but an ironic one at that. So, were you actually going to address it, or were you going to dredge up some more shortcuts? --Calton | Talk 05:47, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Deserving to be notable is not the same as being notable, only the latter matters here. Debolaz 23:37, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete; the news articles are mostly of the News of the Weird kind, and being famous for 10 seconds does not mean being worth of note in an encyclopedia. Other than the hilarious video, what has he done? We don't even know his date of birth! If this article is kept, it should be renamed to "Britney Spears Fan video" or something similar, as the article subject is the video, not the person. Tizio 13:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Blink. You're seriously saying that appearing once on the home page of an Australian website means makes him famous forever? You're actually making this claim? --Calton | Talk 14:05, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As mentioned before, notability is not the same as being a celebrity. Debolaz 14:27, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And a dessert topping is not a floor wax, and what does any of it mean regarding the price of tea in China? --Calton | Talk 15:05, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. The man's made a tearstained legend of himself, he's been on Fox News, CNN, TMZ, the Age, God knows what else. If absolutely nothing else it should be merged with a larger article, though expanding the article would be preferable. Arguing that he's not going to be famous a year from now is pointless- why do we still have that awful song by Samwell on here then? dethtoll 17:28, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep.Neutral. Here's a fairly thorough biographical write up from The Stranger (newspaper): http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=232684. Quotes: "Nineteen and gay, too effeminate to hide, and persecuted by haters in his small town, Chris Crocker turned to the web to vent. Now he's a huge YouTube celebrity." and "Over on YouTube, where Chris also posts, the total number of views for his videos long ago passed the one million mark. Among the people far away from Real Bitch Island who are tuning in: Cassie, the R&B star, who has a subscription to the Chris Crocker video stream on her YouTube page; Glenn Meehan, a Los Angeles producer who recently inked a deal with Chris to develop ideas for a TV show; and Matt Sunbulli, MTV's 'web correspondent,' who has requested a Chris Crocker video for the MTV website. 'He's got this incredible energy,' Meehan, the L.A. producer, told me. Sunbulli, the MTV correspondent, told me Chris has 'virality.'" God help us all, he might be notable. Ichormosquito 17:31, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Delete: Notability is simply not temporary. This is a case of recentism. All of the sources are incidental and do nothing to establish actual notability. IvoShandor 17:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Wikipedia isn't going to make him famous, He's already famous. Allstarecho™ 01:00, 14 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Allstarecho (talk • contribs)
  • Comment Let me reiterate: Why do we continue to have an article on Samwell's What What (In the Butt), why do we continue to have an article on, say, this guy, why do we have an article on just about every useless person or thing that was only famous for a short period of time? What makes Samwell notable? What makes any of these people notable? If we can have that sort of thing on here, then I honestly don't see why we can't have Chris Crocker on here. dethtoll 19:38, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS is about the weakest reason I can think of to keep any one piece of crap. If you think some page isn't worthy, by all means please nominate it for deletion so we can get rid of stuff that isn't worthy. But wikipedia is huge and nobody can know about what one person considers deletable unless he/she says something. DMacks 19:43, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think you're misunderstanding my point. It's not a question of whether I think those articles are notable- I'm just saying that Chris Crocker is JUST AS notable as they are, no more, no less (with maybe one or two exceptions, like the Evolution of Dance guy) so if we're going to delete this article we may as well delete all the others, because by declaring Chris Crocker non-notable we're declaring most of the other Youtube celebs with 15 seconds of fame non-notable too. But if this article is kept then that validates the existence of the other articles. See what I'm saying here? It's either all or nothing. dethtoll 19:54, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please read over WP:NOTE and WP:BIO. It's not "all or nothing". The Bus Uncle passes WP:WEB with flying colors. What What (In the Butt) is borderline. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Happyslip for an example of the notability guidelines in action as applied to YouTube celebrities. Ichormosquito 19:57, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - A nobody criticising wannabes who criticize nobodies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.23.217.240 (talk) 21:55, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete in a week's time, everyone will have forgotten about him. Hell, a fan video for a Doctor Who episode got at least two newspaper articles. It's not even mentioned on the episode page. Will (talk) 22:39, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Not notable. In that case, anyone can just make some weird video on youtube and become notable for a week or two. Unless this person does something special and we get a full bio of him, then just delete it. We can merge it into another article which relates to this (if there is one). Anyhow, this article is filled with nonsens, vandalism and it's poorly written and not enough sources to back all the claims it makes. --Arad 22:41, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Seriously, did you even read the article? this article is filled with nonsens, vandalism and it's poorly written and not enough sources to back all the claims it makes If you find vandalism, fix it. If it's poorly written, rewrite it. Six sources have been added to the article, thats not enough? Fosnez 23:07, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very Strong Delete The fact that this even needs discussing is insanity. If this gentelman's fans wish to extend his fame they should perhaps consider writing a few lines concerning his video on Britney Spears Wikipedia entry. Otherwise the essential purpose of any true encyclopedia is to provide knowledge. This article certainly does not function in that capacity.SerpentOfDarkness 22:48, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - non notable, another 15 minutes of fame case. Completely irrelevant and non-encyclopedic. --71.231.7.20 22:55, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep He is notable. he is one of the most suscribed on youtube, and so are other people that have pages on here. He is very notable on Myspace, he has the most views on Myspace. He is seen National fame in recent weeks due to his videos. Keep this page —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.65.167.236 (talk) 23:28, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, not notable. Creating entries at youtube and myspace do not make you notable. Being made a laughing stock in several newspapers does not make you notable. He'll now sink back into his 23.75 hours of lack of fame and we'll never hear from hinm again. Corvus cornix 23:31, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, I'm quoting you -- it's called "irony", you could look it up -- about the defects in simply pointing to a link, especially when said link contains no evidence of what you claim. Or does it? Now might be the time to actually prove that. --Calton | Talk 05:47, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please clarify what you mean by not notable? If its sources then they have well been established as being reliable etc. Or is it that you Don't like the article and believe that it shouldn't be on wikipedia(because thats not a valid reason for deletion)? (please, this is not ment as a personal attack) Fosnez 08:06, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - This is most likely fancruft created by Chris to self promote his latest video, clearly he is doing a good job because it has been viewed more then 3 million times since he posted it 24 hrs ago. He is just like Jeffery Starr he is a self promoting nothing who is not note worthy. As with Jeffery I believe Wiki should salt the earth on this subject. I look at an encyclopedia as a record of humanity and our observations, if we were to all die today is this what we want in these records? User: RushDoggr IP:209.12.37.114
Comment: Do you mean Jeffree Star, who has an article? Where through afd it was decided to keep the article? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 21:40, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
More like the Jeffree Starr who bludgeoned his way, tirelessly and relentlessly onto Wikipedia. --Calton | Talk 21:56, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd like to see more evidence than a Seattle alt-weekly's claim regarding this alleged "huge" celebrity status. Being a "Youtube celebrity", for all I know, is the equivalent of the World's Tallest Pygmy. --Calton | Talk 05:47, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
-- Jreferee (Talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jreferee (talk • contribs) 06:32, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Merging would completely discount what this individual has accomplished before the Britney video was even created. Turlo Lomon 08:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very Strong Keep This article will almost certainly be deleted, and I have to admit that I will not be sad to see it go. However, I feel I have to speak up; it seems that all of those who are arguing delete simply don't like it, and haven't even bothered with the notability guideline, which states A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. This is obviously the case here. I don't like this article any more than anyone else, but we can't pick and choose when we observe policy and guidelines, we have to apply them uniformly. faithless (speak) 09:17, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Actually, we can pick and choose -- see Wikipedia: Ignore All Rules. Still, I've voted keep. Tlogmer ( talk / contributions ) 06:45, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Just someone wanting their fifteen minutes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.87.162.140 (talk) 10:46, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - after reading through WP:ITSSOURCED, I think that this should go. There is a line that states "Even articles that cite reliable sources and are verifiable do not necessarily merit inclusion in an encyclopaedia. Many events that were briefly in the news have multiple newspaper articles written about them (frequently with similar content), and can thus be sourced, but are (after the event is over) not of a significant historical or cultural impact." This seems to hit the nail on the head on this occassion. Irishjp 12:10, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment - "Significant historical or cultural impact" is ridiculously subjective, which might be part of the reason why WP:ITSSOURCED is an essay, not a guideline. Even after this Britney thing blows over, Crocker will continue to make videos, as he has for the past six months, and they will continue to get 300,000+ views. The site might not look it, but YouTube is highly competitive. Once a personality reaches the heights that Crocker has, he or she stays in the limelight there for at least a year. And the sources have already tried to place him in a wider cultural context. According to them, Crocker is a stifled homosexual in the Southern United States for whom YouTube is a godsend. Ichormosquito 13:47, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • KEEP There are twenty plus Youtube celebrities with pages. This guys has become a pseudo-celebrity, has been featured in the media. He's annoying, but it doesnt mean he shouldnt get a page. Saopaulo1 12:32, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I see your point but however he is making himself into an well attention (well you know the word that you should insert here) and giving him a Wikipedia page is catering to him wanting to get famous for nothing deal. Its not exactly like Pars Hilton who yes got famous for being famous but she at least has been in movies. But thats just my opinion on this. Evolutionselene 12:53, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment We should be as dispassionate as possible. If he's notable, he's notable, whether or not he's an attention whore. Ichormosquito 13:47, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"If Wikipedia hasn’t recognized Chris as an official Internet phenomenon, he certainly is now." Is this mocking? Looks like an opinion to me. Legitimate, of course, but are we bound to follow it? I don't think so. Tizio 14:04, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Also, note the comparison to Warhol. Who's being mocked here, in your opinion? Tizio 14:06, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say it's mocking. Taunting, anyway. The author has obviously seen that his article is disputed. And the Warhol comparison is apt, if exaggerated. He's not being compared to Warhol, but to Candy Darling. Ichormosquito 14:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The author of that article is talking about the fact we don't have this guy on List_of_Internet_phenomena, not this article or this AFD. At least, that's the page her article is linking to. But seriously, the day we let an editorial comment made by one journalist dictate our editorial decisions is the day most of us will give up on this project. Sarah 14:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not arguing we should cave to the opinion of one journalist. I just thought it was funny. For the sake of balance, I don't think Richard Roeper would be happy if we legitimized Crocker's grab for fame.[10] Still, as Roeper acknowledges, a mention in his column does nothing but support Crocker's self-promotion. Ichormosquito 14:40, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • VERY Strong DELETE... how is Chris Crocker so notable? Just because he can make a video and show up on youtube or myspace like any other Joe Blow? The guy is an actor who's just to make a name for himself. 15.251.169.70 15:14, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Not notable. The mainstream media fell for the video and reported on it (on a slow news day) because they thought it was one of those quirky stories about how a no-life Britney Spears superfan suffered a mental breakdown on youtube. And that isn't the truth; the subject is a wannabe attention-getter and the video is clearly another one of his performance art bits. Yes, he's been interviewed by several radio and TV stations, and he's clearly engaging in self-promotion in each interview. The statements in some news articles that he has a "significant fan base" are attributed to . . . guess who? Crocker. Having someone watch your video on youtube doesn't make the viewer a fan. (E.g., most of the people who watched the Britney Spears VMA clips on youtubes are not fans of Spears, but people who wanted to laugh at her bad performance.) A bunch of "friends" on myspace - so what? Is someone with a 1000 friends on myspace entitled to a Wikipedia entry? Or 10,000? Or 10 million? Crocker himself is not notable enough to merit an entry in an encyclopedia. 64.190.140.138 15:42, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I'm not a fan - in fact, the prospect of watching another video of his frightens me after watching several a few days ago - but the arguments against notability seem to be entirely based on the fact that he's a temporary star. That's entirely probable, yes, but that argument would eliminate one-hit wonders and fads from notability. Furthermore, most of the arguments against keeping it do seem to be based on people just not liking the subject of the article - in some cases, pretty passionately. From what I've seen, notability has been shown, and the idea that a person is just a flash in the pan isn't enough to undo that - especially when that can't be determined yet. I thought Britney Spears herself would be just a flash in the pan. When I first read an article on Brookers in The Oregonian, I didn't think I'd keep hearing about her more and more and more afterward. No, a Youtube video rant certainly doesn't make a person automatically notable. However, when said video rant gains the attention of the news and culture, I'd say that's notable. If notability was only established by "groundbreaking, critically-acclaimed" things, we'd be a lot better off...but notability isn't limited like that. I do, however, have issues with the article name...while the Britney Spears rant seems to be what's garnering the most attention right now, "Chris Crocker (Britney Spears Fan)" seems an odd title choice which is probably inspiring further passion toward deletion. I know I twitched toward the "delete" opinion based on that, before I took a better look at the situation and arguments. --Adam the Alien 17:15, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete 15 minutes of fame are nearly over. Limited non-trivial media coverage. OhNoitsJamie Talk 17:16, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.161.219.253 (talk) 17:49, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete He hasn't done anything major such as saved someone's life or cured a disease. All he did was cry about a celebrity. And besides, like some of the other comments say, he'll be forgotten within a week. - Jigsy 18:29, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment No on says you have to save someone's life to have a Wikipedia article. In fact, WP:N says "significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject," which is satisfied. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 21:49, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I don't see why it should be deleted when there's also an article on other Internet Celebrities such as Lonelygirl 15- now THAT was retarded, but because she wasn't gay, no one requested it to be taken off. And Chris Crocker was famous even BEFORE the Britney video. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Countess 2007 (talk • contribs) 18:23, 13 September 2007
  • Strong keep. This video blogger is extremely high profile and is one of a handful of prominent openly gay YouTube stars whose videos regularly land in the top 20 most veiwed out of hundreds of thousands of videos on offer. Also seems referenced enough to denote importance. Benjiboi 18:53, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Will anyone ever research this subject? Probably, I would see this as a good case study in the changing landscape of media and convergence of pop culture and personal politics. I also think that homophobia has at least a little to do with some of the motivations as is evidenced by the comments both here and on the talk page that have been removed. Benjiboi 23:34, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - There are plenty of moderately successful videos on the internet and they don't receive the same coverage. This person is otherwise unnotable. 98.197.248.244 00:01, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep: Even MSNBC tags him "an Internet rock star". His Britney Spears video has made him a world-wide name. Further, a Google News search brings back over a thousand news hits. According to Wikipedia's List of Internet phenomena: "Only a sampling of Internet phenomena which have achieved recognition in a context wider than that of the Internet, such as coverage in the mainstream media, are present here." Chris has also inked a television production deal, as reported back in May, long before his Britney video. I'd say not only now is Chris an internet phenomena but is a notable famous entity outside of the internet and not only worthy of inclusion in the List of Internet Phenomena but also worthy of his own entry in Wikipedia. Allstarecho™ 01:09, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment If the topic of an article is in the news today and it ceases to be in the news or anyone's mind, should the article be deleted? Should the article on scientists except Galileo, Newton, Eisntien, and Hawking be deleted? Should the article on ... I guess you get the idea. --Do not click me! 01:24, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • You might have had a point with the first one. The second? Not so much. But then, the statement was junk news articles, not junk news sources: it's best to make counter-arguments to what people have actually written, as opposed to what you've made up. --Calton | Talk 06:13, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Delete Wikipedia is not a repository of memes. As has been said far more eloquently, five minutes of fame is not notability. To quote WP:NOTE
  • Strong keep - Wikipedia should try to be as broad and far ranging as possible; insofar as Chris Crocker can't be associated with any greater topic, he deserves his own article. He is no less well known for the britney video than for his incest joke with his brother. It's worth having and certainly worth documenting for this point in internet history. Moreover, to argue that this is an encyclopedia in the most proper sense is false. Being a website, wikipedia is already tied to the internet and internet culture much more so than an encyclopedia is or most likely will ever be. Even if wikipedia strives to be like paper encyclopedias (though it shouldn't, it can be so much more), their initial purpose was to document philosophical ideas, concept, and anything else that philosophers cared about. Insofar as this is cared about internet users, it is worth documenting. Finally, in so far as it is impossible to delineate between what are "serious, important cultural artifacts" and what are not, there is no need to remove articles because a few ignoramuses didn't know about it prior to the britney incident."
Wikinews, not Wikipedia, is better suited to present topics receiving a short burst of present news coverage. Thus, this guideline properly considers the long-term written coverage of persons and events. In particular, a short burst of present news coverage about a topic does not necessarily constitute objective evidence of long-term notability. Conversely, if long-term coverage has been sufficiently demonstrated, there is no need to show continual coverage or interest.
Topics that did not meet the notability guidelines at one point in time may meet the notability guidelines as time passes. However, articles should not be written based on speculation that the topic may receive additional coverage in the future. --Walther Atkinson 07:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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