Talk:Gangrene

Pictures...

I came across this page as I was swallowing an orange slice. Perhaps it would be prudent to put a warning on the page so readers can brace themselves before seeing the decaying toes? I am not sure how to do this.

I agree with you, it would be better if there were just links to the pictures and a warning that they are not suitable for sensible [= sensitive?] people.

Why are you going to an informative web page about gangrene while eating an orange?

Guys, Wikipedia has had numerous votes about unappetising pictures and others not suitable for everybody. On the whole, the vote always ends up that pictures should not be linked. Sorry. Use Wikipedia at your own risk. JFW | 

Cesium_133 01:45 31 July 2005 (EDT): This is wiki, folks... all knowledge should be free and evident here. Pics that are nasty but relevant have a place here, especially if medical in nature...

T@lk 19:32, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Can the pictures at least go beneath the "fold" ie. where a user of at least 1024x768 would have to scroll down to see them, coupled with a warning at the top of the page? Drw25 14:51, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Put the images in a row across the bottom of the page? Anthony Appleyard 05:47, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

The pictures are fine, albeit shocking; but seriously, people should expect this when researching gangrene ( seriously though, still: EW ) 128.195.94.157 19:40, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

The images are disturbing, to everyone. Please put in a warning at the top of the screen or at least put the pictures at the bottom of the page. Please.

Uh. While this IS medical, I personally think that was sick. The last one wasn't THAT bad... the middle was just plain WRONG, and I almost puked when I saw the first one. Poor, poor Houdini, he musta puked whenever he saw his feet. *shudder* I feel sorry for whoever was swallowing an orange slice. :( At least you don't have a BIG BLUE STUB where your BIG TOE is, or a ROTTING GREEN FOOT! *gag*

I also agree that the pictures aught to go at the bottom of the page so that one has the option of reading the article without having to see the images. Ggrzw83 18:24, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

The problem with the tag "This article contains photographs that some people may find disturbing", was that i was too busy being horrified by the gangrenous toe to see it! I've got a 1280x1024 resolution, though. - Nasta

Those images are disgusting. I have a 1280x1024 resolution and I almost puked when I saw them. I got linked here from Peter the Great and wasn't expecting it. Guess it can stay though, as it does have some medical standing. --Kupo03 04:55, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Dude, I got here from Powerpuff Girls! I'm glad I'd finished my supper before I saw this. --Das654 21:44, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Will someone please move the picture closer to the bottom of the page? Not for the sake of censorship, but because it is distracting to the reader. The picture itself is an excellent example of the affliction, but it makes the page less readable.

Someone tried the warning and got it removed. I think in this case, citing WP:CENSOR does not apply here. TV shows rated M don't censor the profanity, but they offer a warning before the show starts. ALTON .ıl 04:20, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Are y'all females? Leave the pictures as they're very, very educative. I don't know what the hell is wrong with seeing one. Sabertooth 22:42, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

As a boy of 12 I was reading a synopsis of slaughterhouse 5 and came here via a link. And let me tell you it is very disturbing for a 12 year old boy to see a picture of a pussed out rotting foot. The least you guys could have done is put a warning on top of the page. Now it's too late and I've been scarred for life (seriously). And to "Sabertooth" Wikipedia is supposed cater for all audiences regardless of gender, if you think those pictures are educative and theres nothing wrong with seeing them why don't you bring them to an middle school biology class and see what kind of reaction you get?

Stan

PS I edited the article by putting the 2 pictures on the bottom of the page and added a warning on top of the page. If anyone disagrees with the changes made please state you objections below.

Yeah, that picture of the diabetic with gangrene looked YUMMY.

Added warning again. Please be clear of people removing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.1.114.237 (talk) 10:19, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

No disclaimers in articles. This article in particular was one of the reasons that resulted in a major change to that guideline. Mr.Z-man 05:05, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

You people are completely lacking commonsense! Wikipedia is now used by many people. We can't put this kind of pictures without a warning. C'mon, it doesn't take much brain to see that such rules should be adapted in extreme cases (and these pictures are indeed extreme - either change the picture or put a clear warning). I'm putting it again, your legalistic argument doesn't hold water against the _fact_ that these pictures are definitely unpresentable to the mass. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.1.114.237 (talk) 00:59, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

That guideline was instituted by a community consensus. As I said, the repeated insertion of content warnings into this article was one of the main reasons for an expansion of that rule. If you don't want to see pictures of gangrene, don't go to Gangrene. Mr.Z-man 01:05, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I usually try to stay out of these edit wars, but I see this as a real dilemma. On one hand, WP:NDA is policy, or close to it anyway, and it says clearly that disclaimers should be automatically removed. On the other hand, not one of the reasons listed in the "Why they should not be used" section applies here. Since some people seem to feel strongly that the disclaimer should be there, and I see no valid reason to remove it, I think it should stay. And before anyone spouts off Wikipedia is not censored instead of replying with a well-reasoned argument, I'll just say that a disclaimer does not equal censorship. --Joelmills (talk) 01:11, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

What's the point of the rule if we just ignore it, even if people disagree with doing so? This is covered by Wikipedia:Content disclaimer, that is why the rule exists. Mr.Z-man 01:19, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I would also add that disclaimers not being the same thing as censorship is yet another reason that we have WP:NDA in addition to WP:NOT#CENSOR. Mr.Z-man 01:23, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I know I'm not going to win this argument, because as you said, consensus is against me. However, quoting the style guidline at the top of WP:NDA, "it is not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception." And common sense is telling me that a little heads up at the top of the article regarding disturbing images at the bottom is not going to harm anything. It may even help people. I would like to hear another reason for excluding it. The content disclaimer is not even directly linked to the article, you have to go through Wikipedia:General disclaimer. And who reads those things anyway? I've been reading Wikipedia for a long time, and today is the first day I've ever looked at the disclaimer. I respect your opinion, but I'm not convinced.

I should add that I agree that WP:NDA is correct in almost every other case. --Joelmills (talk) 01:33, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

imo another reason would be that it would be an unreasonable person who, using an encyclopedia on a media rich medium, was upset to see examples. If they can't cope with the facts, they shouldn't be looking these things up on any medium. -- John (Daytona2 · talk) 20:59, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I fail to see why this article is so different from similar medical articles (especially ones related to sex organs) that it should warrant a disclaimer. Mr.Z-man 01:44, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

There are two reasons, I think. First, in my mind there is a difference between being offended by seeing a sexual organ and being disturbed by a violent or "gross" image. Some people can have a pretty bad reaction depending on how sensitive they are. Second and more important, the difference between this article and another one with a potentially disturbing image is that someone has put a disclaimer on this article. I wouldn't have put a disclaimer on this article, but someone else has felt it is a good idea and I am reluctant to remove it. --Joelmills (talk) 01:53, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

The photos posted are VERY disturbing. Not warning about the graphic nature of these photos is simply cruel and mean-spirited. There is no rule in the words for which not a single exception can be found, and this is an obvious example of such a necessary exception. Additionally, perhaps the rule against disclaimers should be revisited since this is such a perfect example of the fact that disclaimers do indeed have a place on wikipedia/

Where is gangrene found in the world? I mean in what countries? please answer ASAP

Worldwide, but the causes differ. In Europe it's smoking diabetics, but in the Third World it's Clostridium, Lepra etc. JFW | T@lk 20:23, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Gangrene is not a disease but the end result of tissue death. There is no 'boundary' for this and the pictures were taken in New England this past summer. It crosses all socio-economic boundaries. Most gangrene in the extremities is seen as a result of loss of circulation and an inability of the tissue to repair. Much of it in the United States is a result of diabetes, some of atherosclerosis either related to diabetes or hypercholesterolemia or cold injury.

DrGnu 00:34, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

death as a result of gangrene

I have a friend who has just been told he has gangrene in his leg. It has been unusable for the past three years as the result of a stroke. He is in the hospital and has been told he has gangrene and is too weak to live through amputation or vein grafting. Is there any other treatment? Do we have to sit back and watch him die?

I'm not going to second guess the vascular surgeons who are watching over him. Alas the gangrene is most likely a result of insufficient blood supply. I've got a patient now who has been nearly 19 months with antibiotic therapy and local wound care who has not progressed much ... the question always is quality of life. I do suggest this be taken to a medicine FORUM rather than wiki. DrGnu

Copyright violation

Most of this article was based on content taken from http://txtx.essortment.com/whatisgangrene_rejx.htm and dumped there by User:134.148.20.1 at the start of October 2004. I've reverted to the last revision that doesn't have this content. Edward 00:57, 2004 Dec 30 (UTC)

I've put back most of the removed content via paraphrase and other non-copying methods. Also, whole paragraphs which are not in the copyvio source were reinserted. grendel|khan 03:43, 2004 Dec 31 (UTC)

Testimonial

My uncle almost died from internal gangrene. He was having pain for a long time and did not tell anyone. One day the pain became so bad he told my grandparents and he was rushed to the hospital. The doctors said if he had waited another day he would have died. Now it is about three years later and he is still living.

Thankfully. "Gangrene" is not really used for that specific condition. Mesenteric ischemia is in use. Indeed, necrosis of the gut is a medical emergency as pathogens from the intestine mount a septic reaction. JFW | T@lk 20:19, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Literature?

Can someone provide information for further research in scientific books about that topic? I'd need some text sources for a thesis. This could be included in the article as well, I guess. Thanks!

Useful and comprehensive "source" documents on gas gangrene include:

Report of the Anaerobic Infections of Wounds and the Bacteriological and Serological Problems Arising Therefrom - Medical Research Committee, London 1919 (A comprehensive review of clinical presentation, treatment, incidence, bacteriology and serology) written in the light of the WW1 experience.

The Histotoxic Clostridial Infections of Man, JD MacLennan, 1962, Bacteriol Rev 26:177-276 (JD MacLennan was an RAMC pathologist working in Nth Africa and Italy in WW2.)

Warning of Disturbing Pics at Top?

I'm going to put this warning at the top of the page, in case someone has a really large monitor and sees the pictures without scrolling. -- Dantecubed 05:58, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Huh? JFW | T@lk 15:09, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Gas gangrene

Many people have heard of gas gangrene and that the bacterium Clostridium perfringens (formerly called Clostridium welchii) causes it. This sort of gangrene needs to be included in Gangrene by someone who knows the subject. Is gas gangrene a sort of wet gangrene, or of dry gangrene, or neither, or what? Anthony Appleyard 17:18, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

I created the gas gangrene page. Think it is a large enough subject to have its own article. --WS 22:46, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm in favour of the merge. Zargulon 07:56, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Anyone notice that the "Treatment" sections for Gas Grangrene and Regular Gangrene are almost exactly the same? And that, in essence, gas gangrene can probably be considered wet more than dry and is clearly an evolution of basic gangrene. Not including it seems...well...like not including "Flamemon" in the "Takuya Kanbara" article.

So, this would probably be te one time i could agree with the whole idea of "merging" on wikipedia.

Still, I'm more in support of multiple articles than merging, so maybe someone should just write a stronger reference to "Gas Gangrene" in the meantime?

Ace Class Shadow 16:16, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Smilepossum: I am in favour of the merge and have replied to tell you that wet gangrene and gas gangrene are one and the same and that it is just a paraphrase. I also put in the article that Gangrene is cause by clostridium Perfringens and that gangrene call also cause necrosis.

10:18, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

• There's quite a large separate article in German on gas gangrene - maybe someone could add to the current English article by translating it, whether or not the merge takes place. Saint|swithin 12:03, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Oppose merge, per WS. --Arcadian 01:46, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

i came across this topic studying for the medical boards. i'm not infavor of the merege, but i dont know if i knwo enough about the topic to count. gangrene is a general term describing death or decay of a tissue because of lack of oxygen. no necessarily result of infection. gas gangrene is (uniquely) caused by clostridium bacteria, and (uniquely) has gas bubbles in the decayed tissue. a prevelant type of gangrene but not the only kind and NOT the definition of gangerene at all. anyone can delete this whole thing if i'm wrong.

I am not in favor of the merge either. Also, if you are looking up gas gangrene you shouldn't be shocked to find pictures that show examples. It is certainly not a pleasing pathological experience.

• I'm strongly opposed to merge. They are two different conditions. Gas gangrene is a condition caused within gangrene tissue, and is a result of a bacterial infection, that's all the physiological simililarity they share. I work with C. perfringens every day, in normal conditions, they have nothing to do with gangrene. A mention about gas gangrene and a link to the article is all that should be included in the gangrene article. Alperyasar 16:01, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Apparently, any mention of Gas gangrene has been removed from the article- I have reinserted the section on it. If anyone thinks that this should be trimmed down to a link, I would support that too. --70.236.28.238 23:57, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Dry Gangrene

I am 57 years old male and a diabetic for the last 3 years. I am taking 'Daonil', an oral pill, twice a day to keep blood sugar under check but it hovers between 100 and 150. My doctor says it is ok. I do not have visible signs except that I have lost interest in sex. About 10 days back on May 01, I fell down in the bathroom and hurt my left foot and left side of the rib cage. There is no cut however any where. For the first few days I had quite a big pain at both places, however, now the pain has reduced considerably. It means it is healing though I still have some pain. There is NO visible sign of any damage to my foot except for a little swelling which is receding day by day. Now, I want to know if there is any chance of developing dry gangrene on my left foot. Please help me with information. Thanks.

Gas gangrene and dry gangrene are both very different things... the rate of progression and the pathology if it make it two different beasts. Gas gangrene is a viable enough subject to have its own heading...i know that is how i ended up here... looking up gas gangrene specifically.

I see the argument of those of you who maintain that gas gangrene should be its own entity, but they are both types of gangrene. Also, both entries are stubs, and with the lack of available information, it's difficult for the article to stand alone.

This was posted in the article--MrFish^{Go Fish} 16:00, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Need Help - I am 57 years old male and a diabetic for the last 3 years. I am taking 'Daonil', an oral pill, twice a day to keep blood sugar under check but it hovers between 100 and 150. My doctor says it is ok. I do not have visible signs except that I have lost interest in sex. About 10 days back on May 01, I fell down in the bathroom and hurt my left foot and left side of the rib cage. There is no cut however any where. For the first few days I had quite a big pain at both places, however, now the pain has reduced considerably. It means it is healing though I still have some pain. There is NO visible sign of any damage to my foot except for a little swelling which is receding day by day. Now, I want to know if there is any chance of developing dry gangrene on my left foot. Please help me with information. Thanks.

Recently added

I'm pretty new at all this, especially creating boxes. I did create a warning box, but it isn't the greatest. If anyone can make it better, please do. --66.218.22.187 05:27, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Just agreeing to merge it...

I agree that gas gangrene, as it is gangrene and already included therein, should be merged. Count me as "aye" in favour of the motion... :) thx... Cesium...

gangrene and heroin addiction?

I recently watched the film Requiem for a dream, which features someone losing an arm to gangrene, caused by injecting heroin. Is this common? Is it wet or dry gangrene?

I'm certainly not an expert, but it seems logical that the necrosis induced by heroin injection is caused by a bacterial infection in either the needle or the heroin sample. By definition, this is a case of wet gangrene. you a monkey

where did gangrene orginate from?

where was the fist "outbreak" found? 76.194.34.241 17:28, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Gangrene isn't caused by a bacterium or a virus, so it's not really meaningful to ask where the "first outbreak" occurred. It's been known at least since antiquity, and presumably it was known when our distant ancestors were injured somehow and noticed their flesh rotting off. Asking where gangrene originated is like asking where bruises or broken bones originated. grendel|khan 19:49, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

This article contain photographs that you may find disturbing

That line at the top of the article should really be removed. Wikipedia is not censored. Mr.Z-mantalk¢ 19:49, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Or we'll just revert war over it. That works too. Mr.Z-mantalk¢ 17:18, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

You retards, of course wikipedia is not censored, but proper warnings should be applied to certain articles for the benefit of the general viewers. Case and point: Spoiler warnings...OOO lets remove them wikipedia is not censored. Idiotic sadistic nerds.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.18.219.156 (talk • contribs)

Be civil and don't make personal attacks. Thanks. ~ UBeR 19:13, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Someone please explain to me how putting up a warning, or having a click-through warning, is censorship. No material is even removed. -- Northgrove 20:59, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I echo the question of the above

Request for Edit

{{Editprotected}}
There is a double image of a decaying foot, one at the top of the page and one at the bottom. I think that someone should fix this. -Lεmσηflαsh^(t)/_(c) 00:10, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

It's the one at the bottom that is extra. --Joelmills 00:17, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Done. Cheers. --MZMcBride 01:20, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Hydrogen disulphide (HG)??? (Dry gangrene section)

Is there a reference for this? I was surprised that it was the disulphide mentioned, not the sulphide, and I can't imagine what the "HG" refers to. Anyone? Xarqi (talk) 13:04, 30 December 2007 (UTC)