Talk:Tasmania

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General Comments about Tasmania

• This comments page needs a good tidy before it gets too large.<sub\Knobbly 03:44, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

places in Tasmania...Shipstern Bluff anyone???

I haven't heard of it - is there something special about it? -- Chuq 00:28, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Just some of the most spectacular surfing waves in the world. This was a well kept secret for many years, but now you can read all about it. GB 21:34, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

-- Well I am - Can we warrant an article on Harper?? I'll do the key Doghouse heckling dates :) - Jgritz 09:09, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The Economics section needs major work, especially the unsupported quote at the start. Recent developments such as the building boom, a surge in tourism etc also need to be added. (I’ll do it my self eventually, if no one else gets around to it.) --Lukeisham 10:53, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I have rewritten some of the economics section and thrown out a lot of the pessimistic, unsubstantiated garbage. - Bella July 2005

Can any one be bothered putting in a section on the Tas Together process?

Why bother with the Tas Togethe process? The government uses it to make out its listening to the community, but only implements things that it chooses. Old growth logging ending by 2003, FAIL. See what I mean?

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Controversial issues

• Forestry

FWIW, I agree with the reverts made by Jgritz today - the 131.* (Utas IP) user seemed to be a bit biased towards the Greens, especially if you look at the other articles he/she has created/edited today --Chuq 10:30, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Would love to see more on the forestry issue here though. It is an issue integral to Tas Politics over the last 30 years. It also looks like being a big national election issue in Australia this year. Even in the British papers of late - http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1174798,00.html - Jgritz 10:48, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)

• Same Sex relationships legislation
• Aboriginal and European conflict

I just added a bit about logging and the Tasmania Together process. I think that because it is a controversial subject there should be infomation about it. Maybe there needs to be a section with controversial issues including forestry. --harrismw 00:40, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Specific Details about Tasmania

Isn't there also a form of Quoll (spelt wrong?) indigenous to Tasmania?

That would be the Pademeleon, wouldn't it? Larsn 10:22, 9 April 2007 (UTC)larsn

No. A pademelon is a herbivorous macropod, while a quoll is a carnivorous dasyurid.--Meika 23:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Formatting issues and changes

• Wikipedia:WikiProject New Zealand places

A Wikiproject about how best to organise regions, towns and cities. If you compare Tasmania with the other Australian states we have got a pretty good article although there needs to be some common formatting for all the states. --Lukeisham 02:13, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

• (Local Government Areas of Tasmania)

Personally I've been convinced by chuq, that the Local Government Areas of Tasmania page is the best way to list all the Tasmanian towns and cities. More general or less specific places could be simply added under the sub-heading of 'Regions' in the main article. --Lukeisham 02:13, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

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Top 12 Pop Idol?

Do we really need links to Reality TV personalities? Haven't they had enough exposure already :) Also, as a Tassie boy living in the UK they have zero relevance to me and I doubt whether they have have any more historical context than the winner of the dance division B at the Devonport Eisteddfod. Top 12 in dodgy TV show doesn't belong on here IMHO. Jgritz 07:27, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I agree. It would be more notable if Tasmania didn't have any top-12 contestants in a reality TV show. - Mark 07:40, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Ah well, take it out if you like.. we just rarely get included so I thought it was good to list them when they *are*. Also note:

• Two of the three were winners of their shows. Regina was a big deal in the local media. Of the 50+ BB contestants this country has had, Regina has been the only Tasmanian (so we have a 100% win rate!). The premier even said it was all Tasmanian's duty to vote for Regina on Big Brother :/ The Mercury rated her winning BB notable enough for its History of Tasmania 1804-2004 specials this year.
• Amali probably isn't notable yet - although bear in mind that, as last year, there will probably be a single release by the top 12 Australian Idol finalists coming out soon. And (sadly) it will go pretty high in the ARIA charts.

-- Chuq 07:52, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

How about making a sub-heading called "Tasmanians In the News" or something. Then if they prove their worth they go into the "Prominent" list. BTW - this is a handy list for the future: http://messenger.imdb.com/BornWhere?Tasmania,%20Australia. I can still remember when Mark Stevens was the first Tasmanian on Young Talent Time...... Now THAT was news... Jgritz 11:24, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Australia the country and Australia the continent

Somebody once told me that Australia (the country) includes Tasmania, but Australia (the continent) does not. Anything to say about this?? 66.245.74.145 22:28, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

In the following, remember that continent is a fairly ill-defined concept. I could list any number of 'continents' that have tectonic faults running right though them. I would argue that 'Australia the island' is a null concept.

• Australia the country definitely includes Tasmania.
• Australia the continent includes Tasmania, as it is on the same continental shelf.
• Australia the island (if there is such a thing) does not include Tasmania. (or Bathurst Island, Kangaroo Island, Bribie Island, etc). -- Chuq 07:47, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Social Context section from main article

Pasted these here cause I don't know where they should go, but certainly not in the main article - Jgritz

Owing to it's isolation, Tasmania is the butt of jokes implying that incest is prevalent

You're from Tasmania? Give me six!

Many of these are unimaginative retellings of US jokes about Hillbillies (much as many Aboriginal jokes are word-for-word retellings of US Nigger jokes).

Tasmania brews two excellent varieties of beer - Cascade and Boags. One is brewed up north in Launceston, the other in the south around Hobart, and there is some north-south rivalry involved. If you're in Hobart, be sure not to drink the wrong one ... although I'm not sure which one that is. (It's Cascade in the south, Boags in the north. 20-or-so years ago there was a very strong brand loyalty with beer, but now there's so many different brands available it's not as noticable.)

Owing to it's shape, "map of Tassie" is an Australian slang term for the female pubic region.

Politics and "over represented"

I reverted the phrase "is over-represented in the Australian Senate" back to "well represented" as it was changed some time ago. Tasmania has 12 senators, the same as every other state. If it had 13 and the others had twelve, then yes it would be over represented. If Tasmania had 7 House of Reps seats, that would be over represented (even though all other states have more than that).

Thinking about this, I don't even think "well represented" needs to be said, just "has 12 senators" would do. But I'll sit on that one for a while -- Chuq 07:09, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Unofficial Discover Tasmania site

I'm thinking that the unofficial Discover Tasmania site should be marked a bit differently or placed elsewhere - It's has a big green slant that isn't immediately obvious. Jgritz 11:48, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I don't think its appropriate to even have it at all, it is a political site, not a tourism site. -- Chuq 12:07, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If you look at it, you will find that it is more then just a political site. It has a number of links to various things in Tasmania. Besides which, if you just have the government sites, you are only having one side of the story for many of the things that are happening in Tasmania. As such I'll be putting it back, along with some other websites that I find around the place. --harrismw 00:59, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

These links would be perfectly suitable if used inline and incontext. Check out Wikipedia:External_links. - "High content pages that contain neutral and accurate material not already in the article. Ideally this content should be integrated into the Wikipedia article at which point the link would remain as a reference." This article already reads like a bad tourism leaflet anyway, let alone becoming a link despository. Generaly I think we should have a politics of tasmania article, where we could thrash out manny of these issues that don't belong in the main article. Jgritz 09:06, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Tas Governement Site Resources

FYI - I just noticed that the all Tasmanian government sites seems to be covered by this copyright disclaimer.

Apart from any use permitted by the Act, the State of Tasmania grants users of this site a licence (within the meaning of the Act) to download, print and otherwise reproduce the information for non-commercial purposes only.

Which means there is a vast resource available for use on wikipedia, especially the State Library pages. Hope this helps someone. Jgritz

The economics section is woefully pessimistic. Tasmania has been booming for the last three to four years. Tourism is booming, property market is building and labour shortages are commonplace throughout the state.

No mention of the Tasmanian bridge?

Being a local I would have thought a ship destroying the only (at the time) major bridge spanning the Derwent river and sinking to its final resting place killing numerous people might have rated a mention.

Does anyone have any references to this disaster for publication?

BTW - To this day no traffic is allowed on the bridge when a large ship is passing beneath it.

You mean the Tasman Bridge? :) -- Chuq 05:28, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Sport

You have forgotten sport. Tasmania is the unique Australian State without an NRL, AFL or Super 14 team. What is the most important sport? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.104.162.224 (talk • contribs) 9:52, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Languages spoken

I don't see any information about which languages are spoken in Tasmania —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 147.83.59.114 (talk • contribs) 10:56, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps someone might like to explain 'WestCoast English and 'Lonnie English' and 'Hobart English' for our inquirer? :)vcxlor 11:14, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Outdoor/Wilderness Experience/Tour Businesses

Anyone aware of any articles on this category for tassie? Long standing businesses in tassie in this area are not mentioned in this article, just wondering if anyone has either started/stubbed or come across entries for wilderness air/ the macquarie harbour gordon river boats / etc etc - maybe an entry is worth it within this art under 'economy' as the post 1980's silent achiever? vcxlor 03:53, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Format problem on elevations in side template

In my browser (FireFox), the highest elevation info is split into two lines, with the highest location in the "highest elevation" row and the height of the highest elevation in the "lowest elevation" row. The lowest elevation, sea level, is not given. This seems to be due to providing the name of the highest peak to a template which has no provision for displaying the name of the highest peak. The obvious solution is to remove the name of the highest peak, but I want to know how others feel about this before doing so. StuRat 06:34, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Tasmania map

File:Tasmap.jpg

I have put together a possible map for this article as there are concerns about the old map's copyright status. By the way, these are well founded. I have determined that the old map (the lower of the two shown here) came from this webpage, where it says that it may not be reproduced without permission.

The new map is an OMC map, and according to the Generic Mapping Tools homepage, these can be considered free. Have a look at the upper map. It's quite comprehensive, a bit more so than the lower map except that it doesn't show roads (I could add those if needed). It's also quite big, being a composite of nine OMC maps. Kelisi 18:52, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Roads are definitely needed!!!!! SatuSuro 22:46, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

All right, then. I'll see what I can do. Kelisi 02:36, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

There we go: Roads. Kelisi 01:25, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

There seems to be no furious objection to this map, although there is also no enthusiastic endorsement. Nonetheless, I shall tentatively insert this map into the article and see what happens. Kelisi 21:09, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, what has happened is that a bot has come along and annihilated the old map so that you can't even see it anymore, even though the code is still there (or can someone else see it?). So, we've had our minds made up for us. Kelisi 18:29, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Map of Tasmania has another meaning. How about a picture of _that_ map? Hee hee hee!

Air quality

The following needs a proper reference. I moved it here since it has remained unreferenced for a while. -- Barrylb 09:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

"Tasmania is scientifically recognized as having the purest air in the world, with the CSIRO establishing and operating the World Meteorological Organization Baseline Air Monitoring Station located at Cape Grim in the far north west tip of the island. When the air monitored at the Cape Grim station originates from the open Southern Ocean region, measurements of many of the atmospheric pollutants are among the lowest values ever recorded.

The station is funded and managed by the Bureau of Meteorology, which jointly supervises the scientific program with the CSIRO division of atmospheric research. Samples are regularly sent to other laboratories around the world to ensure accuracy, as well as to participate in a range of cooperative programs.

See Tasmania's Department of Primary Industries, Water and Environment for more information, as well as the CSIRO."

If you do a search for 'World's purest air' on Google (without the apostrophes), and also a search for 'Cape Grim', you'll find a lot of listings for the same thing, saying that the place is recognized as gathering "Some of the world's purest air". I've not found anything, at least yet, that's I'd consider a definite source to say that the state has teh world's purest air. My thought would be leave it out as a reference, though - we already know we've got the best air here ;) ~Jaguar 15:34, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you could place the paragraph back in the article but modify the line from "as having the purest air" to "as having among the worlds purest air" or anything similar. A source for this claim could be this Age Newspaper article [1] and I also found an Sydney Morning Herald article making similar claims. However so far I haven't been able to find an example of a source that could prove Tasmania has the 'purest air in the world' although I only looked for about 10 minutes. Kyle sb 04:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Should we mention it at all? It seems to be a claim that cannot be proven, and other places claim the same purity of air. Also - anyone in Launceston, back me up on this - in winter when most households have their wood heaters going, the air is anything but pure! And to put the final nail in the coffin is the Pulp Mill proposed for the Tamar Valley. --shiyoushi 15:45, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Climate

Is Tasmania's climate similar to England? When I was in England it seemed much colder than Tas. Kyle sb 09:02, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I live in Hobart and I am sure that there are only two incidences of snow in the city, some time in the 1980s and again on the 16th of August, 2005. 220.253.106.212 09:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

History and geography

I came here looking for information about when Tasmania became isolated from the mainland to find that there is no information in this article about either the history or the geography of the island! Clearly major omissions which need to be remedied! mgekelly 08:50, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Prehistory is the category you need - as it is before usually accepted eras that have human records. Try Australian prehistory, and at least leave Tasmanian history and geography to their slow provincial ways  :) SatuSuro

A Paragraph has been entered - your point was quite valid - :) SatuSuro 09:02, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

History

I am a little surprised that there is no section for the history of Tasmania. I recognise that the convict era is covered extensively by the article on Van Diemen's Land, but I find it odd that there is not even a cross-reference link from this page. Would I be treading on any toes if I put one in? I'm sure there is more to the history than it's founding as a penal colony, and I was hoping to find out about it. --King Hildebrand 16:09, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I have now found that there is a separate article on the History of Tasmania, so I have put in a link to that, too. --King Hildebrand 16:23, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Aboriginal Name?

More than a simple placement (or excision) is needed here - where does the word come from? mainlander or tasmania - and it needs a source, not just from the ether to be able to stick in this far too regularly vandalised article SatuSuro 02:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Abel Tasman named Tasmania I am quite sure 220.253.107.86 11:13, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Emblems

In the table, emblems isn't working but I don't know how to fix it, can someone help? Nitchell 07:59, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Unsigned/incorrectly placed Place question

places in Tasmania...Shipstern Bluff anyone???

I haven't heard of it - is there something special about it? -- Chuq 00:28, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

There is nothing in the geosciences database for Shipstern anywhere in Australia. Ships Stern only in Queensland. SatuSuro 02:57, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Repeated Pointless Vandalism

Is there a point where this article needs to be semi protected? SatuSuro 10:19, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Fate of Tasmanian aboriginals

Doesn't the fate of the Tasmanian Aboriginals deserve more of a mention than just a link to the article Tasmanian Aboriginals? After all, from an international perspective I would hazard that this is one of the most notable, if tragic, aspects of Tasmania's history.Ashlar77 20:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Tasmanian Culture

It strikes me as strange that where culture is mentioned, we have no reference to Tasmanian visual artists, musicians, composers, musical groups (including the Tasmanian Symphony Orchestra) or the many other cultural areas in which Tasmanians excel. I think that this section needs to be extensively revised. What do people think?Wellingtoncat 20:55, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Common complaint on all australian state articles - due to the interests of and average age of editors I suspect - in most case they have very limited knowledge of the culutral heritage in their states. SatuSuro 12:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Agree with SatuSuro - its a case of systemic bias (see Wikipedia:Countering systemic bias). I can't think of many notable Tasmania's artists, maybe Peter Dombrovskis, Alan Moyle as photographers; The TSO as mentioned is an obvious one; Monique Brumby is really the only modern musician of national note; writers Richard Flanagan and Margaret Scott. I am not aware of any others, but that says more about my range of knowledge than anything else! -- Chuq 00:40, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Big problem is that things come and go - there is fashion inculture - the problem is the obsession with contemporary big names - I can think of at least 10 historians of Tasmania that deserve articles (oh If I ever had the time), then history of Uni of Tas - then the poets, the puppetteers, the novelists. I might get around to a sandbox outline for Tas - but I have a long overdue for the same for Perth, WA. I lived on the west coast in the late 1970's - I am convinced most editors on wikipedia were born long after that date! SatuSuro 02:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree that there is the problem of "things coming and going" in culture, and I suggest that in no situation is this more obvious than with sportsmen and recording artists. Both subject to coverage by the mass media, both subject to the whim of popular opinion. I think you're right SatuSuro, It has to be carefully considered why someone should be mentioned. Thanks for your list of notable Tasmanians Chuq!

I suggest that we need paragraphs covering: Visual Arts, Music and Performing Arts, Literature, and Indigenous Culture (Although let me be the first to admit I don't know anything about Indigenous culture so I have no idea what should be included nor where this should fit into the article). I would also suggest some other preliminary additions: Composers: Peter Sculthorpe, Kitty Parker, Don Kay, Constantine Koukias; Dancer and choreographer Graham Murphy (former head of the Sydney Dance Company); Actor Errol Flynn; Painters John Glover, Geoff Dyer (Recipient of the 2003 Archibald Prize); and Tasmania's pre-eminent Wilderness photographer Olegas Truchanas (Dombrovskis' mentor). I recognise that there are many others to be mentioned including early settler and convict painters, composers and poets.

There is also The Southern Gospel Choir (Led by Andrew Legg - An Aria Nominated group, recorded with EMI and with Artists including Guy Sebastian). I'm not sure if people see this fitting in to this section. It is certainly popular within the state. (Wellingtoncat 22:31, 7 December 2006 (UTC))

I should point out List of Tasmanians here as well, by the way! -- Chuq 23:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Chuq! I have updated the list! (Wellingtoncat 02:13, 8 December 2006 (UTC))

A good test would be Candle Records, Nick Armstrong, Ian Paullin, record shops of the 1970's - Tas Free Press, and for the reall oldies - the Sydney Sparkes Orr case? (which is an article but had no Tas Category with it) Tas History is not just environmental or old buildings - . Or the state film theatre in the 70's or the tas puppet thatre in the 70.s, or the theatre in education people of the 70's but the easy 'heritage things' people cannot easily packaged are the intangibles - the scandals and human weirdness of some of the awkward bits of Hobart and Tassie history - although richard (flanagan) and nick (shakespeare) do catch bits. As I say most contributors are born after these things happened - and do their parents tell them - I dont think so. SatuSuro 05:21, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

9+83

The Culture section is shaping up very well now, at the same standard of better then the other states of Australia. Knobbly 02:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Tasmanian Genocide

I don't like the wording of the new addition to the article about killing all of the natives - but it's accurate, I can't argue with that. Any thoughts? MojoTas 22:30, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I have moved it about, reworded, and added a link to Black War which has more details - what do you think? -- Chuq 23:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Nicely done. MojoTas 02:18, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Economy: Poppy industry

Maybe consider added this: Tasmania is the world's largest producer (about 50% world wide) of opium alkaloids for the pharmaceutical market and has the highest alkaloid yield of about 9.3 kg/ha [2]

-ChristopherMannMcKay 00:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Deleted discussion

I didn't think there was a problem with the link to "the article on that other site", I think comparing this article with other sources on the same topic is a valid discussion. Anyway if people want to continue the conversation, a similar/related conversation is at Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board#Dude.2C_where.27s_my_country.3F. -- Chuq 02:05, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Very well. Restored below. Hesperian 02:35, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Tasmania at Conservapedia, a bit of a laugh.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Tasmania

(All quotes are from http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Tasmania&oldid=54126 )

"Tasmania is a small Island, and state in Australia. Its population is approximately 1 million and its capital, Hobart, has a population of just over 400 000 people."

"Tasmania joined the Australian federation in 1900, a move that was not supported by a significant minority of the voting population. In 2004, a referendum to leave the federation was only just defeated (it required a majority in both houses as well by voters and failed to gain a majority in the upper house)."

Don't you love the Encyclopaedia that no one (unless you are registered, and you can't register) can edit?~AFA ^{(Fuck you!)} 02:41, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Funny or not, you shouldn't use Wikipedia talk pages for your own commentary. Talk pages are for discussing the Wikipedia article, preferably in a constructive manner. -- intgr 15:53, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Ditto to the comments of intgr- as it stands this reads like a spam link. --VS ^talk 23:47, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Tasmanian Separatism

While I agree the conservapedia link etc above does not belong here, and AFA wasn't contributing to discussion about the article, it does raise the point that in our article we don't even mention the significant separatist movement gaining ground in Tassie. I don't reckon theyve got a real chance of success, and media reports have treated them as a bit of a joke, but with thousands of members maybe they rate a mention?Humanproject 23:21, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Are u serious? Those idiots are just a bunch of unAustralian bogans, with too much time on their hands. Just cos there recruiting aggressively and getting attention doesnt mean theyre notable enough to be in Wikipedia. It makes me sick hearing the rubbish from their campaign - we'd gain nothing from independence! and what if the fanatics turn it into something like Northern Ireland? No thank youTazchook 23:46, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

You will want to remain civil in your comments; as noted above, Wikipedia talk pages are not for venting your feelings on a topic — they are for discussing the article. -- intgr 00:00, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that Humanproject, that's great, except for the minor fact that there is no separatist movement (and if there is, no-ones heard of them). If you have any links, please do tell. -- Chuq (talk) 03:20, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad you haven't heard of them, and I'd appreciate it if they were not publicised anywhere! Tazchook 22:18, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

My edit

I was looking through this article and found that there was a climate section but no geography section. I thought this was quite odd since in almost all other articles I know of, the climate section is usually placed after the geography section. Doing some investigation, I found that it had been removed along with the history section almost exactly a year ago today. The next editor to come along simply removed the vandalism rather than reverting it. I replaced the history section that was there before at this edit with the July 2006 version and made no attempt to merge the contents. As far as I can tell, the history section from July 2006 is much more comprehensive than the section before my edit and there is very little information to merge. I did however change the main article template about Tasmanian aborigines to point to the correct target. I put the geography section back without modification. Graham87 13:14, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Ocean names

Interesting article. I corrected only one facet (that was correct in the map, but in error in the text) upon which Australian WP editors (or WP editors from any actual locality) do not have an "authoritative leg up." Australians, perhaps unfortunately due to the common usage on Australian maps, no more "get to decide" the name of the oceans of the world than do the people of, say, Chile, who refuse to use "Pacific" and have their own name for it on all their maps. The group that does is the IHO (see the WP Southern Ocean article for references....this article should not be cluttered with IHO references, I should think!) .

For good or bad (bad if you're a fan of Australian maps and terminology), they have decided that Australia is a continent sitting in the Indian Ocean, with the Pacific along its eastern side. They publish this with carefully delineated borders for these water bodies (see that mentioned in the WP Great Australian Bight article. So, certainly not for Australian use, but for a worldwide English enclopedia, its "Indian Ocean", not "Southern Ocean." The IHO very clearly ruled (after a vote of member nations) that the "Southern Ocean" stops at 60 degrees south, and north of that its the Indian Ocean. Not debatable, unless you want to try to overturn the worldwide and WP-wide acceptance of the IHO as the authority on these matters. Water bodies that Australia does not share with other nations are a different matter, of course. This is how world geographers (and the IHO) avoid having several names for various sides of various oceans. Having done the South Coast Track in Tasmania and looking southwest off the cliffs (an amazing place; huge old growth trees, remote beaches) and saying something to a local about the big Indian Ocean waves and getting an incredulous stare, I know this doesn't make sense locally.....But it's an international encyclopedia.DLinth 19:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)