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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 86.141.211.84 (talk) at 14:33, 30 April 2008 (→Oh the Irony). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Dynamo in Wikipedia

The model Wikipedia was based on was very effective in getting it established. However, this model is not effective in maintaining it. When admins elect each other and form cliques, when admins can violate Wikipedia policy with impunity, and when editors are met with the possibility of article vandalism on a regular basis, the opportunity exists for Wikipedia to gradually decline. I think that is occuring. Anyone who is ambitious enough to use it as the basis for an encyclopedia that has stricter edit protections and more specialized and restricted powers of administrators will have a sustainable online encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 17:10, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's true!--194.95.143.150 21:14, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply] 

had edited the complete article alone with User:Mattbr and User:Jameswilson. took over appr. 95%

"User: Wiggy!" vandalised this article in many times an was never been blocked.--194.95.143.150 20:25, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_Dynamo&action=history

Wikipedia- Top Link Dynamo

Oh, it's cool man! http://cwf-co.s3.amazonaws.com/htm/Volkspolizei.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 18:47, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

References

Total population, as of September 1, 2007. Average annual populations January- August 2007

I think it's true!--194.95.143.150 21:14, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply] 

had edited the complete article alone with User:Mattbr and User:Jameswilson. took over appr. 95%

"User: Wiggy!" vandalised this article in many times an was never been blocked.

had added over tousend edits for the Dynamo and other complaining the whole time ago over this article. It is impossible to edit thousands successes within of a day, with edit monster wiggy!, who deletes the article-sections

For the most part I could care less about your edits - until you start spamming articles that are somehow remotely related to your pet team(s), replacing correct English with poor translations, turning articles into tribute pages, agrandizing yourself, adding endless spamlinks and excessive wikilinks, insulting other users, and engaging in right-wing racist rants, etc., etc. You've been blocked here, at de:Wikipedia, and very nearly at simple:Wikipedia. You've had stuff repeatedly tossed at commons, dictionary, and text. When are you going to figure out that nobody appreciates your uncivil POV approach? And by the way, you left me out of your list of credits for making some useful edits to SV Dynamo - but I guess that didn't register on you? Smarten up or go away. Stop messing up other people's work with your POV nonsense and find some useful way to contribute. Wiggy! 23:04, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your statement is ethnic discriminating, because it is not your German Club! You vandalised this article in many times, without blocking about yourself. Your are a racist liar! Your talk is not interesting for me! It would be bad if I have a piece of it as you would still popular.

You vandalise all the time and do nothing else, except nonsense to tell. You are not valuable!

Then you get here from your christian soldiers here backing like User:Quaddel and User:Polarlys 

Racist? Witch! I'm not your new christian witch!

You described many German soccer-logos as "Nazi-Symbols"!

Spam ist, wenn man Werbe-E-Mails versendet! Aber nicht einen Nicht-Christlichen Verein auf Wiki gestaltet.

Übersetzung von Wiggy!: Wenn ich hier diese Seite weiter erstelle, dann ist das Vandalismus und bin ein Nazi, der zerstört werden muss, weil das allen Leuten hier auf die Nerven geht. Wenn ich das nicht tue, dann soll ich private Probleme bekommen. Wenn hier heute ein Bot was erstellte, dann war ich der Zerstörer der Siete und nicht der wiggy!. Völliger Wahnsinn. Dann hatt User Wiggy! wieder randaliert und mein Photo gelöscht.

Hier wird man systematisch einkategoriert, wie die Leute beim Gottesdienst. Es gibt nnumal Leute, die so sind und das ist nun mal so vom lieben Gott so gewollt. Ob das stimmt ist auch noch egal. Hier wird man einfach nicht anders als minderwertig angesehen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.143.150 (talk) 18:19, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gehen Sie jemanden finden können Sie sprechen. Holen Sie einige helfen. Wiggy! 19:24, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnic and political discriminating in Wikipedia

User:Wiggy! may vandalise this article on every time, without blocking throught admin. He vandalised the Kay Körner-Picture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=prev&oldid=170154229 He vandalised the also the audio data Sportvereinigung Dynamoⓘ He (Wiggy!) vandalised the wikilinks to commons, wikibooks and wikisources. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_Dynamo&diff=prev&oldid=146870006

  • User:Wiggy! vandalised the map discussion

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=cur&oldid=171700821


Vandalism by "revolving bugbear"

  • And again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=next&oldid=177209695

SVDVP

This her is the right logo, then the Spiegel/Mirror of the police in all German times wasn't in gold, if was been silver. Please accept this fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.201.55.6 (talk) 19:27, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a German and you may believe that. MY family was been involved in this club and at at the crminal police.....


?????? I will that putting in at the "other versions" by wiggy! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.30.241.23 (talk) 16:53, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Sports Unification German People's Police.jpg

Image:Sports Unification German People's Police.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 17:39, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Other user vandalsising this page

Jeodesic has moved Hartmut Briesenick out from the succesfull athletes, with the describtion: It's the correct name! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.30.241.23 (talk) 17:43, 18 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


{{helpme}} UserWiggy! does dicriminating all with Dynamo over times uand was never been blocked. THe SV Dynamo is a communist sports club and noting else. He means that the SV Dynamo isn't a communist club and this is false.

Help-me tag moved to user talk. --omtay38 19:09, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalising by User:Cro0016

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=195767604&oldid=195767338 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 09:53, 4 March 2008 (UTC) And again the bronze medals: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=prev&oldid=195784893 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 12:26, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • OK, I offer my apologies here. I did not realise that more than the 215 Olympic medals was being reverted. So, I apologise for this. However, a citaion will be required to back up the 215 medals claim Steve Crossin (talk) 12:30, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Steve Crossin, you are Cro0016?? The source of this lies by the articles of the athletes (linked here) and the athletes articles don't belong to this article, than it would blow up this article. Any medals and memberships of the SV Dynamo are proved. Please look at the hall of fame. Dynamo is a defunct sozialistic sports club. The general proof is the Sports Magazine Dynamosport, the SV Dynamo Almanach and many many others. All stands at the magazine Dynamosport. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 12:44, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yes, I am Cro0016. Steve Crossin is just the name that appears in my signature. Okay, well, the fact should be put in the article with a citation. I believe your statements, however others may challenge it.Steve Crossin (talk) 12:51, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This article needs a cleanup!

The English in this article is quite terrible in places, it does need a major cleanup, I think. Anybody volunteering?EA210269 (talk) 00:33, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The article is lacking any neutrality by simply glorifying the East German sports system. There is no mentioning of the massive amounts of doping performed in former East Germany (see:Doping (sport)), the fact that Dynamos mother organization, the Stasi was directly involved in political repression and that its leader, Erich Mielke, was a convicted criminal, having murdered to Berlin police officers in 1931. I think, their could be a lot more added to it but the articles style is, in my opinion, offensive to victims of the East German regime and definitely offensive to me, as a German!EA210269 (talk) 01:50, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism by User:EA210269

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=prev&oldid=196188747 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=prev&oldid=196408975

Deutsch: Ich möchte dir idealen Bundesbürger mal sagen, dass alles diese Medaillien erkämpft wurden und bis heute anerkannt sind und bleiben. Da kannst du nicht kommen und sagen das es Verherrlichung sei. Dies ist nur der Fall, wenn nicht solche großen Erfolge erziehlt wurden und hier alles so erzählt würde. Verherrlichung ist was du machst. Du erzählst, dass dieses English falsch hier sei, was eigentlich dazu dient andere zu disrkrminieren, wegen ihrer Herkunft, Art und Weise. Die ganzen Sportler hier sind nicht gedopt und zu behaupten, dass diese dann trotzdem gedopt seien, weil diese ja selber anders aussehen und aus Sachsen oder Berlin sind und nicht in deiner Ideologie Platz haben. Die Meisterschaften sind auch anerkannt.

Der Artikel ist außerdem selbst in Textabschnitten von Engländern, Canadier und Amerikaner geschrieben. Hier Leute komplett zu verurteilen, weil sie nicht deinem Weltbild entsprechen und hier Tatsachen aufgelistet sind, ist mehr als Diskirminierung. Das ist sehr imperialistisch und diktatorisch. Außerdem kannst du ja selber den Artikel auch bearbeiten. Das machst aber nicht, weil du ja keine Ahnung hast und keine Quellen.

Achso, vergiss nicht dein Germanisches Bärenfell umzuhängen!

English: I'd like to say you perfect "Bundesbürger" that all these Medals were won, and are recognized today. Because you can not come and say it was glorification. This is only the case if not such great successes won were here and everything is telling. Glorification is what you are doing here!. You are telling that this English is wrong here what serves to discriminate others, because of its origin, nature and manner. All the athletes here are not doped and to say that they will still be doped because they look so different and came from Saxony and Berlin, and finding not place of your ideology. The championships are also recognized.

The texts are even been written from the British, Canadians and Americans. This is a work of a community from Dynamo for humans and with humans, against imperial agents rigging/ string-pulling because of political and social milieus.

Don't forgot to wear your Germanic bearskin!

Removal and replacement of POV tag by anonymus user

Due to the fact that the POV tag I placed on the article yesterday was removed by an anonymus user only a few hours later, without a proper discussen through any third party and with only a rant full of insults and accusations as an answer, I was forced to take the following steps:

Apart from this I be very happy to discuss my opinion about this article here with anyone who has got an open mind and tolerates other peoples opinons. EA210269 (talk) 06:30, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have created a section in the article titled "Controversies surrounding the Sport Club Dynamo" to hopefully create a more balance view of the article. I've researched a lot of sources, the amount of information regarding DDR-doping is overwhelming! Only used the most reliable sources, like BBC, The Guardian, etc.EA210269 (talk) 03:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism by User:DeadEyeArrow

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=prev&oldid=197293302 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 08:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Vandalism by User:EA210269

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=prev&oldid=197575659 Th SC Dynamo Berlin is not the SV Dynamo, but it's a stub. The Erich Mielke history is linked here and thus about him is known of this Erich Mielke-article. The SV Dynamo article is over 40 kb. The article sice of Wikipedia may only at the best 30 until 40 kb in large. I repeating myself: The SC Dynamo Berlin is a stub and you must it put in to this article and not here and copying the Erich Mielke article at here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.201.55.6 (talk) 10:35, 11 March 2008 (UTC) Deutsch: Die Größe der Wikiepdia-Artikel darf 40 kb nicht überschreiten. Das, was du hier über Erich Mielke schreibst ist beim Erich Mielke Artikel schon bekannt. Dann das mit dem Doping, wo du es wieder nicht geschafft hattest zu beweisen, dass alle Dynamosportler in der Ruhmeshalle gedopt seien. Ich kann nichts dafür, dass die angeblich Kinder bem SC Dynamo Berlin gedopt hätten. Dann schreibe deine Vermutungen doch bei dem Artikel SC Dynamo Berlin 'rein. Der muss sowieso erweitert werden, weil der sonst gelöscht würde. Das vom Erich Mielke ist aus dem Artikel abkopiert und hierein gesetzt worden, was völlig sinnlos ist, denn kann man selber ja den Erich Mielke-Artikel ahier anklicken, da ich den hier verlinkt hatte. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.201.55.6 (talk) 10:44, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Niemand sagt, das jeder oder viele Dynamo Sportler gedopt waren, aber zu sagen, das keine waren ist falsch und kann auch so bewiesen werden, Kay! Schau doch selber die Quellen an fals du lust hast. Andrea Pollack und Daniela Hunger, die du in deiner "Hall of fame" auflistest haben es ja selber zugegeben! Was Ilona Slupianek angeht, ebenfalls von dir gelisted, sie wurde 1977 ganz offiziel des Dopings ueberfuehrt! Du kannst gern die Augen zu machen und denken, das es nicht existiert aber deswegen verschwinded die Wahrheit nicht, glaub mir. Ein paar schwarze Schafe gibt es ueberall, ob in der alten DDR oder in der US (Marion Jones). Und was deine Aussage anfgeht, das die Erfolge bewiesen sind, wer zweifelt daran? Lies den letzten Abschnitt von The case of doping, er bestaetigt genau das! Was Erich Mielke angeht, der ist wo er hingehoert! Und kopiert habe ich nichts, das sind alles neue Quellen, du kannst das gern mit dem Mielke artikel vergleichen. Du kannst es gern auch alles wieder loeschen aber ich fuege es doch nur wieder ein, Kay, und jedes mal wenn du das tust suche ich nach noch mer Quellen. Das liegt also ganz bei dir. Ich habe keinen Haß auf dich oder Dynamo und solange du statt voller Haß vernuenftig schreibst antworte ich dir gern. Gruß aus Wiluna,EA210269 (talk) 22:13, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Der Artikel ist zu groß mit dem Mist. Dann hast du das bei DDR oder einem anderen Artikel einzufügen. Oder eigentlich bei der Sportlerin und nicht hierein. Ich werde doch ninht anderes hier löschen, damit hier Platz für den Mist ist.

Es gibt für den jeweiligen Sachverhalt hier mehrere Artikel, wo das herein gehört. Das mit Erich Mielke ist doch schon bekannt und mit der Mauer auch. Das gehört dort hin, aber nicht hier rein. Wenn, könntest du das in den SC Dynamo Berlin-Artikel einfügen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 08:24, 12 March 2008 (UTC) Lies doch mal, was hier steht! Du sollst das in den Artikel über die Personen 'reinschreiben! Dort gehört das hin! Du kannst doch nicht über andere Dynamo-Vereine oder Personen hier einfach das hiereinstellen! Der Artikel ist zu groß![reply]


It exists an article about Dynamo-Athletes and other Dynamo-Clubs and therefore insert these in this articles and not in this to large article, please!

English:: I have done as you asked and added parts about doping to the Dynamo Berlin and the athlets articles. However, the whole thing is not limited to one club or one person, it involves the Dynamo organisation at large. Thats why I think it belongs here. However, if you do think it is to large, can't you have Captain Future generate a new article called: Controversies surrounding the ''Sport Club Dynamo''. This would certainly solve the length problem and I would be happy with this compromisse and not bother you anymore. I wish to write about other stuff and don't really want to spare the time! The Dynamo article is not your private possesion, kay and anybody with reliable sources is able and allowed to contribute. Give it a minute of thought that I havn't deleted a word you wrote in this article even so I don't believe everything is the way you say. it's about tolarance, you know, respecting other peoples opinion, even when we don't share them. have fun editing and i'm sure I hear from you soon, ME
Deutsch: Ich habe dem Dynamo Berlin Artikle und denen ueber die Athleten schon vorher Paragraphen ueber die doping Verstrickungen zugefuegt. Das ganze beschraenkt sich aber nicht auf einen Klub sondern auf die Organisation, deshalb gehoert es hierher. Fals du wirklich der meinung bist, der Artikel sei zu lang, las Captain Future einfach einen neuen Artikel generieren mit dem Titel: Controversies surrounding the ''Sport Club Dynamo''. Das waere doch eine Moeglichkeit oder? Damit waere ich gern zu frieden und belaestige dich auch gar nicht mehr laenger da ich ganz gern ueber andere Sachen schreiben wurde! Dann waere dein Artikel nicht mehr zu lang. Ansonsten ist Dynamo oder der Artikel aber nicht dein Privatbesitz und jeder der glaubhafte Quellen anbringt kann an ihm arbeiten. Vielleicht solltest du dir auch mal darueber gedanken machen, Kay warum du staendig meine Sachen rausloescht waerend ich keinen einzigen Buchstaben von dir geloescht habe obwohl ich in vielem nicht deiner Meinung bin. Toleranz und so, du weisst ja. Machs gut, viel Spass,EA210269 (talk) 10:39, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And again: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=next&oldid=197716585 Deine Phrasen stören mich. Die Grenztruppen der DDR sind nicht die Dynamo-Sportler! Den Rest mit Erich Mielke kannst du bei Erich Mielke übertragen, aber nicht hierein, da es hier um Sport geht. Deine Dopingaussagen von Fanseiten, kannst du in die Artikel von den SportlerInnen tun und nicht hierein. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 14:55, 12 March 2008 (UTC) And again: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sportvereinigung_%28SV%29_Dynamo&diff=next&oldid=197716585 Deine Phrasen stören mich. Die Grenztruppen der DDR sind nicht die Dynamo-Sportler! Den Rest mit Erich Mielke kannst du bei Erich Mielke übertragen, aber nicht hierein, da es hier um Sport geht. Deine Dopingaussagen von Fanseiten, kannst du in die Artikel von den SportlerInnen tun und nicht hierein. Was willst du mit Toleranz? Hast'e das vom Nachrichtendienst-Lehrer?[reply]

English:

Your phrases disturbing me. The border patrol of East Germany is not Border Troops (Grenztruppen der DDR) of the GDR. And the dynamo-athletes weren't murderers on the Berlin Wall! The rest with Erich Mielke you can insert in Erich Mielke, but not here. Your statements of doping fansites can get involved in the articles of the athletes do not here! The atheltes are here linked. The article is to large otherwise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.142.179 (talk) 15:01, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dynamo a militant Sports Club who murdered Germans on the wall?

Dynamo is not a military organisaton. Members of the Felix Dzerzhinsky Watch Regiment must wearing the SV Dynamo training suit. They could be members of the SV. Members of the National People's Army were involved at the Armeesportvereinigung Vorwärts (ASV). The Grenztruppen der DDR is a sektion of the National People's Army. On the Medal in the section Institutions you can read the German word "Zoll" (what means in English Border patrol). The one and only paramilitary organisation been the Combat Groups of the Working Class. Only the Grenztruppen der DDR watched and shooted at the wall.

It seems, Kay, you don't read your own article very well! Read the second sentence, it says: It was created for members of the country's ministry of interior which included the Volkspolizei with the Border patrol of the GDR. Well, I personally thought, like you said above, Border Patrol was part of the NVA and therefore should come under ASK Vorwärts, but this article states its part of Dynamo. Whats the truth now? Let me know and if the second is right, remove the part above border patrol from the article and I will delete the reference to the kills on the wall.EA210269 (talk) 21:18, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I removed the bit about the border guards, I think you are right about that bit. I do recommend however, you change the second sentence. I leave it up to you, Kay.EA210269 (talk) 08:58, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do it in these others! Wikipedia is only one page! It exits so many highlights about this theme. Please looking after the Frensh soccer team, Real Madrid, Team Telekom, Bayer Leverkusen and many more unstarted article about none doping Dynamo-athletes of other continents. There you can do your hobby edits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.201.55.6 (talk) 20:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

English:You still havn't made it clear what the connection between Dynamo and the Border patrol of the GDR is, mentioned in the second sentence of the article. Are they associated with Dynamo or not now, there is a bit of a contrdiction. If there is, which I'm doubtful of now, then the killings at the Mauer have to be mentioned here too.
Deutsch:Du hast noch nicht klar gestellt, was die Verbindung zwischen Dynamo un den Grenztruppen ist, Kay, die du im zweiten Satz des Artikels erwaehnst. Da ist ein wiederspruch zwischen deinen Aussagen. Fals eine Verbindung besteht, was ich nun bezweifele, dann muss ich die Mauerschuesse auf jeden fall auch hier erwaehnen. Viel Spass,EA210269 (talk) 00:35, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Whats a Bundi, Kay? Hier in Australia its this! They tatse nice!EA210269 (talk) 00:37, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
English:To finish off this discussion, I have changed border patrol (German:Grenzschutz) to customs (German:Zoll). I think, its a more suitable translation.
Deutsch:Um diese Diskusion zu beenden habe ich border patrol mit customs ersetzt. Die deutsche Uebersetzung von border patrol waere Grenz Schutz (Z.B.: Bundesgrenzschutz im Westen), waerend customs in deutsch Zoll bedeuted. Diese Uebersetzung ist, glaub ich, besser.EA210269 (talk) 21:41, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The 10 evidences against prejudice about the Dynamo

  • 1st Wikipedia is one (biggest) homepage with links to articles.
  • 2nd You can't edite here the same content from the articles: State Security, National Police of the GDR, Fire Brigade of the GDR with fitted, althought they are linked here exists as well as autonom article, which are stubs.
  • 3rd The SC Dynamo Berlin is not the Sports Club Dynamo, but only divided and: therefore, this should be only used in the article and may be linked.
  • 4th Others, from about 190 Dynamo clubs are also linked been in here. They can not be here building contents to be introduced here and therefore can be linked, in this article alone.
  • 5th That would go beyond the scope if links would be saved.
  • 6th Even Dynamo athletes can not take more than the basic structure of SV dynamo himself mentioned here.
  • 7th Dynamo is not the federal sports association of the GDR. If what about the East German sports should be reported, then use the item DTSB.
  • 8th If it is alleged that any athlete Dynamo had killed people, then you have to prove. Otherwise, it belongs in the article in the customs administration of the GDR.
  • 9th I am not intolerant. I don't like support your work because it's hopeless and desperate it is here that one's image to produce, since the balance between misconduct and successes more on the side of the successes stands than on those of misconduct.

You can write about this, but link to the article. But I have also done so, and if you click it, that will also be displayed in one second.

  • 10th The size of the article should of Wikipedia only 30 to 40 kb. With your sections, it is about 50kb!


In answer to your ten points:
  • Prejudice would be if I wrote negative things about Dynamo without having any sources or references. I think, I have provided enough references so far (about 20).
  • Dynamo was the central organisation for all Dynamo clubs and all Dynamo athletes. It carries therefore a chief responsibility for the actions taken by the former. Dynamo can't just claim the glory of medals and titles which are, admittandly, plentyful. It also has to take responsible for the other side, the "dark" side so to speak. The same goes for organisations higher up, like the DTSB, of course.
  • I have never alleged, and I don't ever believed, that Dynamo athletes killed any body. The misunderstanding results from the phrase Border Guards of the GDR, which should now be resolved. (See discussion above).
  • As mentioned before, the balance between success and misconduct does stand on the side of success, this can not be debated. So does the article, which is about 95 % about the success and 5 % about misconduct. I think, this is a good ratio. As an example, if we were to write an article about the 1936 Berlin Olympics and we only wrote about the sport and never mentioned Adolf Hitler, the Nazis and their misuse of the event as a propaganda weapon, would that be right? I don't think so!
  • The section "Controversies surrounding the SC Dynamo" does not warrant its own article, I think, its not important enough. It is a footnote along the history of Dynamo, no more, therefore it belongs to Dynamo.EA210269 (talk) 22:14, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I had a quick look, yes, the article is a bit long but still complies, no need to panic.EA210269 (talk) 22:23, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Der Artikel wird doch nicht in alle Ewigkeit so aussehen wie heute. Da kommt noch viel mehr; im Guten, wie im Schlechten, vielleicht wird der auch mal gelöscht, damit muss man auch rechnen.

Die Ärzte des SC dynamo Berlins gehören zum Artikel SC Dynamo Berlin. Der ist hier gelinkt. Dann waren keine Dynamo-Mitglieder an Erschießungen an der Grenze beteiligt, soweit es nicht bewiesen ist, sollte man nicht den Teufel an die Wand malen. Wenn einige Sportlerinnen gedopt gewesen seien, dann tut es mir besonders leid. Dynamo ist aber kein Dopingzentrum gewesen, wo schwache Leute unter Drogen gesetzt wurden. Das ist auch dafür gut geeignet, um zu rechtfertigen, dass die Arbeitskraft der Ostdeutschen DDR-Bürger schlechter sei als im Westen, da die hier halbsoviel bekommen, da Sport ein Zeigen von genetischer Stärke und Disziplin ist und wer das gut kann, der ist die/der beste. Die haben wirklich sehr hart trainiert. Ich würde dir vorschlagen, dass die Dinge bei den Artikeln der Organe des Ministeriums des Innerns der DDR aufgehoben wärest. Dort, bei dem MFS gibt es auch schon einen Teil über Dynamo oder gab es. Aber zumindest beim Artikel Erich Mielke gibt es eine Sparte, wo eigentlich das alles mit ihm und Dynamo hineingehört. Du könntest da ja hier was 'reinschreiben, aber gleich auf die DDR-Grenze anzusprechen, wobei das ein Thema der NVA ist, finde ich schlecht. Genauso die vielen Daten über die Staatssicherheit. UNd ich habe genau gelesen, dass 30kb bis 40 kb hier ideal sind. Wegen den Leuten, die alte PC's haben.

Ich habe nur mal eine halbe Stunde im Internet über Doping der BRD nachgeschaut und ganz viel gefunden, aber da nun was hiereinzuschreiben - dafür habe ich keine Zeit und keine Lust. Da reicht der Satz hier aus.

Wenn ich an meine Sportler-Tätigkeit denke, die in Vereinen nach der Wende stattfand, muss ich gestehen, dass mehrere Leute vor den Wettkämpfen immer 3 Liter Kola getrunken haben. Manche hatten nie irgendwelche Allergien und dann auch gleich Asthmazeug genommen, was auch Doping ist. Dann, wenn ich hier in die Fitnesscompany gehe, dann stehen die dort herum und geben einen Angebote auf, ob man Spritzen will und wie man dann immer trainieren muss usw.. Die stehen in der Umkleidekabine und tun sich nur Tabletten geben. Manche bekamen Brüste und hatten Arme, die stärker sind als die Oberschenkel.

The article will not ever be like today. There is much more, for better, or the worse, perhaps, the times also deleted, thus, it is important to calculate.

The doctors of the SC dynamo Berlin belong to the article SC Dynamo Berlin. The link is here. Then Dynamo were not members of shootings at the border involved to the extent it is not proven, should not the devil on the wall paint. If some athletes were doped, then it does me very sorry. Dynamo is not a doping centre, where poor people under drugs were set. It is also well suited to justify that the labour force of the East German GDR citizens worse than in the west, because the halbsoviel get here, as a sports point of genetic strength and discipline, and who is it good for, that is the the best. They have trained really hard. I would suggest to you that things in the articles of the institutions of the Ministry of Innerns lifted if the GDR. There, the MFS has also been a part of dynamo or were there. But at least at the article Erich Mielke, there is a division, where it all really with him and Dynamo belong. You could because here was' reinschreiben, but equal to the GDR border approach, with a theme of the NVA, I find bad. Likewise, the many data on the state of security. AND I have just read that 30kb to 40 kb here are ideal. Because of the people, the old PC's.

I only have a half hour on the Internet through doping Germany looked very much and found, but there was hiereinzuschreiben now - that I have no time and no desire. Since the rate goes from here.

When I think of my sports activities think that the clubs after the turn took place, I must confess that several people at the competitions are 3 liters of cola drink. Some never had any allergies and asthma also finished speaking, as doping. Then, when I am here in the fitness company go, then there are around and give an offer on whether to syringes will be and how to train it is always so. The stand in the changing room and do only tablets. Some had had arms and breasts, which are stronger than the thigh. J.delanoygabsadds 18:07, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

English: Nobody doubts that the athletes in the GDR trained hard, I would say, propably harder then they themselves sometimes wanted. And I'm certain that doping existed and still exists in other countrys, including Germany. If you wish to write about this and you have good sources (ARD definatly is a good one), I have no intentions of stopping you. Regarding the killings at the wall, I repeat what I said before, my misunderstanding results from the term "Border Guards of the GDR". My appologies if it offended you but I consider it an honest mistake on my side with no bad intention and I have removed the section already myselve. I however forgot about the Dynamo berlin article. I will consider how to approach the POV problem I see with this article for a few days and let you know what I think is a suitable approach. But don't be to surprised if the "Controvesie" section reappears, I make no comittmend for now.
Deutsch: Niemand bezweifelt, das die Athleten in der DDR hard trainierd haben, manchmal haerter als sie es sich wohl selber gewuenscht haetten. Und ich bezweifele auch nicht, das anderswo auch gedopt wurde und noch immer wird, einschliesslich Deutschland. Wenn du darueber einen Artikel oder Paragraph schreiben moechtest so stehe ich dir sicherlich nicht im Wege. Deine Quelle, die ARD, ist sicherlich eine verlaessliche. Die Streitfrage der Mauerschuesse reultiert von einem Missversaendnis meinerseits, auf Grund des Ausdrucks "Border Guards of the GDR". Border Guards sind der Grenzschutz, nicht der Zoll und ich weiss jetzt das du Zoll meinst, aber ich habe Grenzschutz verstanden. Ich entschuldige mich, sollte es dich unangenehm beruehrt haben aber es wahr sicherlich kein absichtlicher fehler. Ich habe diesen Teil auch vorher schon herausgenommen, aber den Dynamo Berlin Artikel dabei vergessen. Ich bin weiterhin der Meinung das der Artikel nicht Neutral ist, habe aber diese tage nicht so viel Zeit, mich mit dem Problem zu beschaffen, ich werde mal schaun wie ich es angreife wenn ich wieder mehr Zeit und Lust habe. Ich las es dir wissen und du wirst ja sehn, fals der Paragraph "Controvesies" wieder da ist. Machs gut, EA210269 (talk) 07:17, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dynamo-Hall of fame section cleanup

The Sportvereinigung_(SV)_Dynamo#Dynamo-Hall_of_fame section should be better organized to become more readable. I suggest to clean up this section by one of the following way: (a) Use bulleted list (*), see Wikipedia:Lists#Bulleted_lists; (b) Create a separate category and categorize these people, see Wikipedia:Categorization; (c) Create separate article as a list. Visor (talk) 17:34, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

New article:Controversies surrounding the Sport Club Dynamo

I have now created a new article of this name, linked to this article in the hope of this setteling the ongoing dispute. If so, I consider the matter finished on my behalf.EA210269 (talk) 02:58, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The new article was heavily vandalised by the same anonymus user editing this page, not unexpectedly, as it does not fit his ideology. Almost 20 years after the end of the Stasi, its (selve declared) agents obviously still try to silence people and contrary opinions! Excuse my outburst but I think this anonymus editor has been left roaming long enough!EA210269 (talk) 23:09, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
For more information on the anonymus editor of this article, see: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive133 under: SV Dynamo and multi-indef-blocked User:Kay Körner,EA210269 (talk) 23:21, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move to SV Dynamo. JPG-GR (talk) 04:43, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sportvereinigung (SV) Dynamo → Sportvereinigung Dynamo — The team name is Sportvereinigung Dynamo. —Visor (talk) 08:28, 19 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Discussion

Any additional comments:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Unreliable sources template

The main source for this article, the Dynamosport magazin, published by Dynamo about Dynamo, seems a very unreliable source for the article as it is not an independent source. A more neutral source should be found for the article.EA210269 (talk) 06:33, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Oh the Irony

So the response to nazi-ist "vandalism" (still yet to see ANY satisfactory accepted definition of Wikiality's "vandalism") is to lock the page off in true wikinazi style.

Wikipedia - the encyclopedia anyone can edit - as long as Jimbo and his Admin Regime agree with your point of view. Anything else is vandalism, and will be prevented at all costs.

Nazi-ism is a terrible evil. We should never forget this. And we must fight it everywhere it is found. And these days it is most often found here, on Wikipedia, being perpetrated by the Admins.

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