User talk:Hipal

This user is not an administrator on the English Wikipedia. (verify)

Welcome to the Wikipedia user discussion page for Ronz.
To leave a message on this page, click here.

*Do not make personal attacks or use the page for harassment. Such comments may be immediately deleted. (See WP:TALK and WP:AGF)
*Sign your post using four tildes ( -- ~~~~ )
Thanks for taking the time to read this.

could you please do me a favor?

Hello,

I am a master student at the Institute of Technology Management, National Tsing Hua University, Taiwan. Currently I am wrapping up my master thesis titled “Can Wikipedia be used for knowledge service?” In order to validate the knowledge evolution maps of identified users in Wikipedia, I need your help. I have generated a knowledge evolution map to denote your knowledge activities in Wikipedia according to your inputs including the creation and modification of contents in Wikipedia, and I need you to validate whether the generated knowledge evolution map matches the knowledge that you perceive you own it. Could you please do me a favor?

I will send you a URL link to a webpage on which your knowledge evolution map displays. Please assign the topic (concept) in the map to a certain cluster on the map according to the relationship between the topic and clusters in your cognition, or you can assign it to ‘none of above’ if there is no suitable cluster.
I will also send a questionnaire to you. The questions are related to my research topic, and I need your viewpoints about these questions.

The deadline of my thesis defense is set by the end of June, 2008. There is no much time left for me to wrap up the thesis. If you can help me, please reply this message. I will send you the URL link of the first part once I receive your response. The completion of my thesis heavily relies much on your generous help.

Sincerely

JnW ^talk 07:36, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

While I'd like to help, I don't know if I can commit the time that may be required to help. Go ahead and I'll do my best. --Ronz (talk) 14:59, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, here is the link

Pretest webpage

If you have any question during pretest, please contact me.

Please finish it before 25 June. Thanks a lot. :)

JnW ^talk 14:57, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not able to get it to work with Firefox. If I have time, I'll try to update my copy of IE to try, but I may not able to get this done by your deadline. --Ronz (talk) 16:32, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, it is now work on Firefox. I have no idea about this, but maybe you can try to update the version of Firefox and Java. The link will exist after my deadline. I still hope that you can help me, but just take your time. Thanks a lot. :)

JnW ^talk 09:25, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, the questionnaire is completed. Link:

evaluation questionnaire

thanks for doing this questionnaire, and I hope that you will feel interested about this. :)

JnW ^talk 04:37, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

When I was finally able to run the questionnaire, I don't think it recorded any but my last response. Sorry that I forgot to tell you earlier. --Ronz (talk) 13:46, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Humm, it seems that some other problems existed. Anyway, I still appreciate your help. :)

JnW ^talk 08:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

FYI

Created formal mediation request. If you want to agree. Agree. If not, do nothing. The link :

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/bates_method&action=edit&section=5

Seeyou (talk) 20:25, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Take a peek

I just got here to see this,[1]. Take a read of this talk page, it's really sad reading. I've been seeing this kind of attitude a lot lately and hope it's just a 'moment' that needs wiki breaks for returns. Just thought you would be interested, --CrohnieGal^Talk 09:46, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yep. I've contributed there a bit. The discussion fizzled out after awhile. Looks like the recent discussion is trolling more than anything. --Ronz (talk) 16:05, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of Warren Patrick Casey

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Warren Patrick Casey, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 04:37, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine. All those Wicked Tinkers articles need to be merged into a single article. --Ronz (talk) 05:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Aaron Shaw (piper) seems to be notable in his own right. Wicked Tinkers may not meet the musical group criteria but it seems to meet the default WP:N criteria. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 11:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wicked Tinkers should stay. Aaron Shaw (piper) if references can be found. The other group members and the individual albums should be merged into Wicked Tinkers. --Ronz (talk) 00:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bled eConference @ E-Commerce Electronic commerce

Dear Ronz, I do not think that the link I added is in anyway promotional. To the contrary, this conference web-site provides a valuable resource for people interested in E-Commerce and its history. The proceedings the conference are freely available as pdfs. Maybe I should link directly to the proceedings? Cheers Kai —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.212.214.236 (talk) 19:20, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for responding here. The best solution would be to find the proceedings papers that could be used as references and list them on the talk page so others can help in adding in the referenced information. A link to the conference website itself fails WP:EL, WP:SPAM, and WP:NOT#LINK. --Ronz (talk) 23:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why did you remove the link to my article "History of Ecommerce" from Electronic commerce?

HEllo, my name is Jareme.

For some time I've posted a link on Wikipage devoted to ecommerce. This link was to the article "History of Eccomerce". You've deleted it as a promotion, poor quality article... So I wonder where do you find any promotional materials in my article? And what article is good quality, if mine is poor? My article has been written together with professionals and all the materials are unique and good. No advertising links, no any advertising contents, just detailed description of history of ecommerce! And I want to mention that as opposed to two paragraphs in Wiki devoted to history of ecommerce (that of course is not enough), my article contains a lot of interesting details since the ecommerce began and even some research materials.

So please provide me with the detailed explanation why it has been deleted.

Looking forward to hear from you soon.

Regards, Jareme —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jareme (talk • contribs) 12:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're saying you're the author of the article? --Ronz (talk) 15:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Depression and natural therapies

Do you think that a merge of Depression and natural therapies to Major depressive disorder would be in order, or is there yet another of these little walled POV-magnets to which it could be de-forked? I rewrote a couple of the entries about a month back, but I am unconvinced that we need to separate this loose conflagration of treatments and "treatments" from the main article. - Eldereft (cont.) 21:45, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely! This has been discussed in detail. The only other solution would be to make a separate article on the treatment of depression, which would be a better solution overall given the size of the depression article currently. --Ronz (talk) 22:09, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Let's try that--a separate article--much easier to maintain. DGG (talk) 02:06, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

message on image tagging

Hi, Im not sure Im doing this right--I tried to upload an image on the entry Yorick Wilks---the image YW.JPG and it was removed by an Image bot because not tagged. I want to add the tag

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

If this is not legally possible:

I grant any entity the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

but cannot see from your (?) instructions where to go to do this--can you help?

I've never tried it. Have you followed the instructions on your talk page? --Ronz (talk) 16:04, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ronz hope all is well. I just noticed this and thought I would help out a little by showing him/her the way to an editor who is excellent in this type of thing, [2]. She helped me with one image I put up and she really knows her way around with the policies to load images and the requirements. I think she would be able to help get this all sorted. I can help if I see the situation myself, the upload request, but it takes me a while till I too get it right but Durova will be able to aid and help get it done the right way much quicker than I can. I hope this helps and that I am not intruding.

On a different note, Ronz, where are you lately? I haven't really seen you around. Are you still on break? I haven't looked at your contributions so excuse me if this is a stupid question! ;) Again, hope you are well. --CrohnieGal^Talk 14:12, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Crohnie! Thanks for the note. Hope you're well. I'm still fairly busy, but have enough time now that I'm officially back from wikibreak. I'm trying to stay away from drama for the most part, though stepping in where it's needed, like Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/TheNautilus. --Ronz (talk) 16:03, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Glad you are still busy, me too. Been dealing with some blockages that stink of late but feeling a bit better today. I have been doing a little here lately but not too much other than mostly vandal reverts. I have been tempted to speak up at The Nautilus for comments page but I have done so well avoiding him since the problems I had with him at the Barrett page and prefer to keep it that way, though the temptations are overwhelming at times, I think it is best to stay out and just watch it. I feel a lot is being shown there. Have you read the comments by Shoemaker Holiday? I found that of interest and almost put my endorsement to it, but I didn't. I will continue to 'watch' though. You take care, bad storms coming and my connection is getting flaky. Talk to you soon, any suggestions are welcomed though about this. --CrohnieGal^Talk 20:15, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why did you remove the link to my article "History of Ecommerce"?

Yes, I'm the author of the article "History of Ecommerce" published on http://spam.ecommerce-land.com/history_ecommerce.html . I've posted the link to this page on Wiki with the sole purpose to enable Wikipedia users to get more information about history of ecommerce. But you've deleted it as spam. I think it is not fair.

Sincerely, Jareme —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jareme (talk • contribs) 14:07, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You've added the link, and nothing else to the article, twice. No one has said it is spam, but the manner in which it has been added violates Wikipedia:Spam#How_not_to_be_a_spammer. It think it's a poor quality article and too promotional. The other editor that removed it thought it was too commercial. --Ronz (talk) 15:52, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

External link guidelines

I do not understand why you would feel that a link to a website that has valid Q&A about the topic in hand is spamming. It is not a personal website, it doesn't sell anything, it is HIGHLY relevant. Are you just trying to limit "competition" with other wikis?

Hagoleshet —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hagoleshet (talk • contribs) 07:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You added similar links, and nothing else, to a large number of articles through your account and 212.143.232.2 (talk · contribs). You were warned that this is inappropriate by another editor. See Wikipedia:Spam#How_not_to_be_a_spammer. --Ronz (talk) 15:58, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

RE: Why did you remove the link to my article "History of Ecommerce"?

So if I edit wikipedia article about the history of ecommerce, add some interesting facts from my article and after that put a link to the page where my article is posted, will it be OK? Am I right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jareme (talk • contribs) 12:54, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The facts need to be verifiable by reliable sources. Further, you should be aware of the conflict of interest policy. The best approach would be to start a discussion on the talk page, and include a list of references that you used for your article. --Ronz (talk) 15:47, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry could use your advice again-spam?

Hi, I hope this isn't getting old with you but you know and understand spam the best I know of so I am bringing this to you, I hope it's ok. On the Joseph Mercola article there are now two external links. The first one is what I am questioning, [3]. To me it looks like spam esp. now that I looked at the second EL. What's your thoughts please? I have not done anything, I want your advice/actions first so I understand this better. It is Mercola's site, but it seems to me to be his sales site, not information site, though there is some links to go to the informations (I didn't click them though so I do not know for sure. I hope the little bit that I have clicked on doesn't put me on the mailing list automatically.) Thank you in advance, --CrohnieGal^Talk 12:09, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I removed it as inappropriate linkspam - a link to a highly promotional site that is off-topic. The links should be to articles or other material about Mercola. --Ronz (talk) 15:31, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the fix, the article is a mess and I totally agree with how you handled it. On a different note, I find this next set of stuff terribly scary and see a major forest fire ahead on this. I don't totally understand all the under currents going on as there is major history behind the scenes here but I think you might be interested in this if you haven't already, though you probably have. Anyways here's some of the links I have been following but it is spreading to so many places real fast. [4], [5] and [6]. I didn't know that this kind of secret actions took place, esp. something like this with the ARB and sanctions and all. I find it quite disturbing as does a lot of editors as you will see. I am just following the links to try to figure out what is going on but I do believe that editors should be aware of this kind of secrecy going on so that the project remains open to all and not to a minority. I think this kind of actions is a bad idea for an open project to succeed. Anyways, take a look when you have the time, it's a lot to read already and it's not been announced for a whole day yet. Thanks again, --CrohnieGal^Talk 11:53, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

[7] More, Jimbo Wales weighs in here. It is definitely getting interesting. :) I hope things work out to be open to the community since this is something I find most appealing about this site. I like the consensus and open atmosphere that wiki is about, and that all editors are considered equals and can respond to most everything going on and give an opinion. I hope you are well and enjoying the start of the weekend. Take care, --CrohnieGal^Talk 12:42, 28 June 2008 (UTC) PS: I am horrible with run-on sentences![reply]

I agree with your assessment of the Joseph Mercola article. I also agree that it's important to put Mercola's website in perspective (traffic). The problem: how to do this without resorting to OR? I have (very briefly) looked for news sources, and I'm sure a few reliable ones are out there, but so far what I find are websites allied with Mercola. His domain of natural/paleolithic/etc. diet/health products seems to reside in a parallel universe, a notable one, but parallel nonetheless....making it difficult to "encyclopedize" reliably. Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 22:10, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I did the same and don't know of anyway to make the article comply better. Other than a major rewrite or turning it into a stub and starting over again which I don't think many editors would be happy with. I am at a loss to be honest so all I do is try to keep the extra stuff not needed or over done out. Open to suggestions though, --CrohnieGal^Talk 11:02, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Forgot to add, the only hits I got was from Quackwatch and that gets people riled up if used. I do understand that this is a very controversial site and a lot take what is said very personally but I also think that this is the kind of article where QW might be useful for balance. Of course just my opinion, thoughts? --CrohnieGal^Talk 11:07, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Newmatilda.com page

Hi Ronz

I work for newmatilda.com and assisted with editing the wiki page.

We have endeavored to address a number of the issues which were flagged as not meeting wiki standards.

This includes copyright notice for the image used, conflict of interest, neutrality and in-text citations.

Can I request that these be reveiwed and if, as we believe they have been adequately addressed, the notifications currently displayed on our page be updated or removed?

We appreciate the work you do in maintaining wiki pages and hope you are able to make these updates.

Regards Rod newmatilda Newmatilda (talk) 02:30, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for looking into the problems. I'll look over what you've done. --Ronz (talk) 14:24, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It still needs lots of work. I suggest WP:RFF to get the attention of others to help. --Ronz (talk) 14:34, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Ronz, sorry if you thought that what I posted was spam or anything like that. It seriously wasn't my intention - just tried to add some content. I don't know why would you consider it to be linkspam or anything similar to that.

From now on I'll try to be more open on the changes I try to do.

Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bruce404 (talk • contribs) 20:34, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Marburg72

Why do you keep posting on my page, saying "Please do not attack others". I never attacked other editors. Please stop. You also repeatedly removed my scholarly journal citations about the topic of Hourglass Symbolism and history which has been already moved from Walam Olum Birchbark scrolls to midwiwin to hourglass history and now to hourglass symbolism . Why are you doing this?Marburg72 (talk) 18:55, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Now you are posting unrealted conflict of interest information on my site and again reverting all constructive edits to the Monk's Mound site. The conflict of interest material that you posted has nothing to do with this topic. Why are you doing this?Marburg72 (talk) 16:19, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest you take it to WP:COIN before someone else does. Read WP:COI before you do. --Ronz (talk) 16:21, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are wider issues than WP:COIN, so I've just (crudely) begun a page at: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Marburg72 David Trochos (talk) 17:15, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I noticed that he's well on his way to Arbcomm. I'd like to see an admin or some other uninvolved, experienced editor, take some time to explain proper behavior to him. --Ronz (talk) 17:24, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have added some more complaints for you - that are also unrelated. Marburg72 (talk) 02:44, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ronz, I've just put in an "Evidence of trying to resolve the dispute" summary, and your name keeps cropping up. Would you like to sign in the "Users certifying the basis for this dispute" section? David Trochos (talk) 19:41, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

While I mean to do so, something has come up that might prevent me from getting to it in the next day. --Ronz (talk) 19:44, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if you are aware that Marburg72 has a 24 hour block for edit warring and disruption (deletion of text by other editors that he didn't approve of) on Talk:Monk's Mound -- look at the history of the talk page. Doug Weller (talk) 18:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, and after I advised him to take some time to cool off. Thanks for the note. --Ronz (talk) 18:42, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lego page 'Trademark'

This section has been discuss many times in the past. The information is correct from the Lego Group website and other media sources long before there was 'Google' or 'Wikipedia'. It shows and explains in simple terms the proper use of 'LEGO' name and logo if someone is researching about the LEGO trademark. There is no reason to delete or change the 'trademark' section when it provides information for the reader to understand the history. If the section is deleted, it will create some problems again in the past on 'Wikipedia' which is mention in the past 'Archives'. It is more common for American kids to say or write 'legos' but for the rest of world its different. It could cause a ripple affect to other company names or brands listed on the site. Not to forget the rest of the other Lego pages, such themes and products listed or mention on Wikipedia. The reason behind the trademark section is to explain why it is incorrect to use 'legos' or 'Lego's'. In fact, pretty much all companies, brands or products on Wikipedia should have a 'Trademark' section. So the reader can understand more about the person, company, product, and brand they are reading about. I hope you can understand. GoTLG (talk) 23:17, 1 July 2008 (UTC)GoTLG[reply]

I don't agree. This is an encyclopedia, not a venue for businesses to inform people about their trademarks and how to use them properly. --Ronz (talk) 04:27, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

as an administrator here with an interest in WP:NPOV, I agree that Ronz correctly understands the way wikipedia handles these matters. The place to explain the way you want your trademark used is on your own website. DGG (talk) 04:02, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Help with speedy deletion request

Hi Ronz. I've actually interacted with you one or two times during my time here at Wikipedia. I'm a user that pretty much cleans up articles & helps keep the spam out.

I was hoping you could help me out. I've identified a user who is not using Wikipedia the way it is intended to be used. His Wiki User name is - User_talk:Wrrobinson. I did some tracking and noticed that he's putting up resources for Orange Legal Technologies (a company page that has already been deleted) as well as this article - Electronic_Discovery_Need_"Indicators". I noticed that his user name - Wrrobinson - is oddly similar to the Vice President of Marketing's name on the Orange Legal Technologies website - http://orangelt.us/about/mangement-team/. And that article I nominated for speedy deletion was directly lifted from a Orange Legal Technologies page here - http://orangelt.us/situations/litigation/.

Anyway, I was hoping you could take a look and make sure I did all of the correct steps (nominate the page for speedy delete, add the tag to his talk page, etc.). Thanks Ronz--Christian B (talk) 16:11, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I do know you're not an admin, but you definitely know a whole heck of a lot more than I do when it comes to Wikipedia procedures, Wikicode, etc; That's why I'm asking for your help.--Christian B (talk) 16:12, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the words of confidence. I'll look into it. --Ronz (talk) 18:03, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's hard to tell what he's been doing given that most of his edits were to articles now deleted. Issues like this can be brought to WP:COIN to get the attention of other editors familiar with how to address potential conflict of interest problems. If he's not the same Robinson, he certainly likes to promote Robinson's interests. I've notified him of WP:COI and tagged the one remaining article he's worked on. --Ronz (talk) 18:27, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for this - appreciate it--Christian B (talk) 18:44, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Enterprise architecture etc

Not sure which of my edits your advice refers to. However, I believe the section I added at the front of the Enterprise Architecture definition does indeed merit being placed ahead of the remainder of the definition. The problem with "Architecture" in the IS/IT space is that people need to distinguish enterprise architecture, solution architecture, software architecture, enterprise application architecture, technical architecture, etc etc. If one doesn't start out with something the differentiates them, they all read like synonyms. But I'll have another look at it. Graham Berrisford (talk) 19:30, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm concerned that you're going into details that are too complex and need more discussion than what should be in the introduction. --Ronz (talk) 19:36, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Re: User talk:Levine2112

Just e-mail him with the explanation, okay? He's entitled to remove whatever he wants from his User talk. That's policy, I'm afraid. Both of you edit warring on a user talk page is just silly (I got word of this from WP:3RRN), most of the time it's on articles about real things. If you e-mail him then it's out of the way. Take care, friend! Scarian ^{Call me Pat!} 04:16, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I will not email him. I do not give my email to people who harass me. --Ronz (talk) 17:12, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In reply, I would ask this: Please remove or refactor anything where you have referred to Levine2112 as a troll (anywhere), or said anything else at an article talkpage that might be construed as a personal attack on him. If you have concerns about harassment, you can bring them up at your talkpage, his talkpage, or an administrator's talkpage. But at article talkpages, limit your discussions to the article only. Thanks, --El on ka 18:24, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ANI

WP:ANI#Suggest a topic ban for Levine2112. ScienceApologist (talk) 19:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

RfC/U for Levine2112

Discuss here only if you're able to follow the instructions at the top of this page (follow WP:TALK, WP:AGF, etc). --Ronz (talk) 19:31, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think what would be great is if Levine2112 acknowledged the problems he has caused in the discussion/editing of of alt. medicine articles and began working more from the model of User:Dematt or User:Nealparr. I also think that Levine2112 branching out to topics outside of the area of alt. medicine would be appropriate. Other than reverting petty vandalism and welcoming users he sees with redlinks, I haven't seen anything in his contributions that make him anything more than a WP:SPA. Those would be some good outcomes for RfC/U. What do you think? ScienceApologist (talk) 22:24, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. --Ronz (talk) 23:28, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Levine2112 (talk · contribs) seems to have done a lot more than that.[8] He has been around for nearly three years, has many thousands of edits, and has worked on a variety of articles. This is not the profile of a WP:SPA. --El on ka 01:07, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ahh, spoken like an uninvolved and uninformed admin, with some investigation you will find (as almost all who have to deal with his edits have found) he mostly edits altmed articles where he pushes the altmed POV. Hallmarks of a SPA per WP:SPA. Shot info (talk) 01:14, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, as I look through the contribs of all involved here (including Levine2112) I see very similar patterns, as well as a great deal of attention to certain controversial articles. Which isn't necessarily a problem as long as discussions stay civil, and article edits stay in compliance with Wikipedia policies. See also WP:BALANCE. --El on ka 13:25, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Look again. Levine edits a very narrow range of articles - all altmed. He uses editing tools for petty vandalism and welcome messages that make it look like he's editing a far larger number of articles, which is hard to see in his editing history if you don't know what you're looking for. --Ronz (talk) 16:57, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So? You edit a lot of altmed articles too, but that doesn't mean you should be blocked for it. As for "reverting petty vandalism" and "welcoming new users", those are extremely helpful to the project. We have plenty of editors who do nothing but scan recent changes for that kind of thing. See also WP:GNOME. It is behavior that we encourage. If such an editor wants to get involved in discussions on altmed articles, that's totally fine. Where it would get into the realm of disruption, would be if they were edit-warring, being uncivil, repeatedly adding unsourced information or unreliable sources, removing reliable sources, misinterpreting reliable sources, or editing an article in defiance of talkpage consensus. Has he done any of those recently? If so, show me diffs. --El on ka 17:26, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm simply pointing out the facts. Yes, the vandalism work is indeed useful editing. No one is suggesting he be blocked because he's a SPA that also does some vandalism work. Thanks for the list of items to concentrate on for listing his inappropriate edits. --Ronz (talk) 17:32, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Goal

To document the editing behaviors so it's easier to review.
To centralize discussions on proper response to those editing behaviors.

--Ronz (talk) 16:29, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You thought it is spam when it isn't....

Hi Ronz,

I just saw that you delete a few of the links from pages and tagging them as spam. While I am quite new, I was just curious what I can do to prevent that you or someone else deletes it as spam.

Let's look at the pages:

Customer Experience: I made an external link to my non-commercial blog that provides an overview of academic and non-academic articles on customer experience management. A lot of them are for free, so I think this is quite valuable for people who read this entry on Wikipedia.

User-Centered Design: The link features an overview together with a short introduction of the 13 most popular methods of user-centered design. These 13 methods are the result of a survey of around 150 practitioners of user centered design. So I think this is also highly valuable

Location Based Services: There is a discussion in the field of ubiquitous computing whether humans really need location-based services. I have provided a link to a non-commercial site that discusses this issue and you have marked it as spam. I think this contributes significantly to the discussion in the field of location-based services.

So, I just want to understand your rules for spam. How do you judge between valueable contributions (which as you can see above, the posts definitely represent) and in-valuable spam? How can a website that doesn't follow any commerical interests (no advertising) be flagged as spam?

Thanks for your answers (and helping me understand the "unwritten" rules of Wikipedia) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ExperientalMarketer (talk • contribs) 10:02, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chiming in here. Your site looks good at first glance. I think the 'spam' thing isn't the issue (although take a look at your username and think what the response is going to be when someone sees you adding links), it's the fact it is a blog. Please read [[WP:Verify}}. Then even if you got past being self-published, adding it your self could be seen as WP:COI. You could post to the reliable sources noticeboard WP:RSN to ask if your blog could be used as a source. If you do that, start off by identifying yourself in some fashion to give yourself creditibility, then describe your blog and how you'd like to use it. Doug Weller (talk) 13:34, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First, it's a blog, so fails WP:EL. Second, you appear to have a relationship with it, so there is likely a WP:COI conflict as well. Third, your behavior of adding links from this same domain to multiple articles is considered spamming. Even if this wasn't a blog and you didn't have a relationship with it, it would still be considered spamming. My concern is how the link is being added, not the content of the pages. --Ronz (talk) 17:39, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ronz, thanks for your feedback! so what do you suggest me to do when I think this is valuable content and want it to add to these entries? Should I try the reliable sources noticeboard WP:RSN? I don't want to be cumbersome, just trying to understand these details. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ExperientalMarketer (talk • contribs) 18:22, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad that you're continuing the conversation. While you can try WP:RSN, I suggest starting at Wikipedia_talk:External_links. Also, if you haven't already done so, I suggest you read through WP:COI and decide if you want to make a declaration about any relationship you might have with the site. Additionally, WP:COI gives some excellent advise no matter what the situation is: discuss the additions you want to make on article talk pages to see if someone else thinks the information is valuable enough that they'll add it for you. --Ronz (talk) 18:33, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As he thought I'd misinterpreted the wording at WP:EL, and I could see that it was confusing, I've already brought it up on the talk page, see [9]. No point in trying the RS noticeboard. Doug Weller (talk) 18:41, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not following. What's being misinterpreted? --Ronz (talk) 18:43, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, take a look at my talk page (and the link above). He read 'except for a link to a page that is the subject of the article' as allowing anything that talked about the subject of the article. But what it means is that an article on Yahoo forums could have a link to a Yahoo forum. Doug Weller (talk) 18:47, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'd seen the discussion earlier there, but I'm not sure what you're trying to clarify. Maybe that's why I'm not sure how it applies to this situation. --Ronz (talk) 18:51, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Say what?

I have no idea what you are talking about. If you are referring to my comment that DBachmann employs hyperbole, he does, i've called him on this before, and tough shit for him that I keep noticing. It's not incivil to call a liar a liar. It's blunt speech, fully protected under our Wikipedia policies. ThuranX (talk) 23:02, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm concerned that you're escalating the problems, especially with your edit summary. --Ronz (talk) 23:07, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Look. DBachmann likes to point out the hypocrisy in others. He likes to point out the hyperbole used by others in discussion and debate. I'm simply calling him on it. And don't worry, it's not escalatign anything, he's aware that I find such duplicities distasteful. ThuranX (talk) 23:12, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like the argument is getting a bit too personal. I think it best to keep the edit summary free from name-calling, where it cannot be refactored. --Ronz (talk) 23:19, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Conditions for editing Quackwatch

Doesn't contain a single mention of WP:NPOV. This is beyond naive. --Ronz (talk) 21:40, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Editors are required to add information that is based on reliable sources. If they add something that another editor feels isn't neutral, then other editors can change the text to something that they feel is better. --El on ka 21:48, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe you understand WP:NPOV. Given that NPOV is at the crux of the problems at Quackwatch and related articles, a solution that doesn't address it is no solution at all, rather a distraction. --Ronz (talk) 21:52, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WP:AGF still applies. The assumption is that whichever editor is adding something, that they are doing their best to comply with NPOV, and that they are genuinely trying to improve the article. However, different editors may have different perceptions of what "neutral" is, in which case they are allowed to go in and try to change the added text to something that they think is more neutral. Then the first editor can either accept that, or make further tweaks, etc. Ideally they can go back and forth, each offering their own compromises, until they can circle in towards consensus. If any editor is obviously adding information in bad faith, the administrators will spot it, and can deal with that editor directly. But to start, an assumption of good faith is being made towards all editors, in a "wipe the slate clean" technique, to try and get past the logjam. --El on ka 22:04, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"WP:AGF still applies." I don't believe anyone said it didn't, nor do I see how it applies to NPOV or the NPOV problems that these articles have.

"The assumption is that whichever editor is adding something, that they are doing their best to comply with NPOV, and that they are genuinely trying to improve the article." See my previous comments. AGF says nothing like this. --Ronz (talk) 22:15, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is no evidence that the Conditions for editing at Quackwatch are valid or in accordance with any policy. QuackGuru 18:21, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer identifying exactly what the problems are, rather than blanket statements. The histories of the Barrett-related articles show again and again that the problems are almost all related to NPOV.

The solution that I've repeatedly offered to to only use the highest quality references (per NPOV, V, and RS), and remove contentious material not supported by the references agreed upon. This will result in all the articles being reduced in size. --Ronz (talk) 18:30, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome to condense the articles, and using high quality sources is an excellent practice. I can't speak for other articles, but at Quackwatch, please be mindful of the Talk:Quackwatch#Conditions for editing, and do not remove sources. If you think a source is unreliable, please tag it, such as with {{vc}} or {{vs}}. The {{fact}} tag is also useful. Then if concerns are not addressed in a reasonable amount of time, no one is going to fault you for deleting the tagged information, and/or questionable sources. --El on ka 18:56, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Given that this is a POV dispute, {{Lopsided}} and {{POV-statement}} are much more relevant. --Ronz (talk) 23:20, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As I understand it, WP:NPOV is usually enforced by the editors editing a page. Administrators and the Arbitration Committee enforce policies such as WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA so that editors will be free to interact in a productive way and to go about their business of trying to enforce NPOV. NPOV is very important, but it wouldn't work very well to expect admins to enforce it, because every individual has their own biasses. It works best if many editors are involved in enforcing NPOV together, through their interactions. That's my understanding. ☺ Coppertwig (talk) 00:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"WP:NPOV is usually enforced by the editors editing a page." Perhaps, perhaps not. I stand by my earlier comment, "NPOV is at the crux of the problems at Quackwatch and related articles, a solution that doesn't address it is no solution at all, rather a distraction." Help enforcing WP:TALK and WP:CON would be helpful as well.

No offense, but it just looks like such admins that behave as you describe are unable to address the real problems and unable to admit it. --Ronz (talk) 03:24, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ban followup

Your one-week ban will expire in a few hours, at 18:23,[10] after which you are welcome to resume editing of homeopathy-related articles, and participating on talkpages. It is my strong recommendation that you endeavor to be extremely civil in all communications, both in messages and edit summaries. I also recommend that you assume good faith wherever possible. Specifically, start from the assumption that other editors are genuinely interested in improving the encyclopedia, not in causing damage to it. At article talkpages, please try to keep your comments focused strictly on the content of the articles, and not on the contributors. For example, avoid naming specific editors in your comments and edit summaries, and avoid use of the words "you" and "your", and conversations may proceed much more smoothly. Thanks, and let me know if you have any questions, --El on ka 14:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I absolutely do not agree with these terms, as you've refused to answer my questions or otherwise pursue WP:DR concerning the reasons for the ban. Further, your terms appear to ignore consensus on numerous policies and guidelines, as well as multipe relevant comments made by other editors and admins. --Ronz (talk) 17:10, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ronz, I think you're misunderstanding a lot of things here and I'd hate to see you headed for more issues. As part of the Homeopathy Arbitration case, the Arb Committee gave a lot of latitude to administrators who are trying to help sort out the long standing issues surrounding it. This includes the ability to ban editors from articles, talk pages, subjects and even blocks if it comes down to it. Elonka (and other uninvolved admins) don't need to go through dispute resolution with you - dispute resolution is something you need to explore with the other editors you are in a dispute with. So long as you follow Wikipedia's editing and behavioral policies, you should have no reason to fall afoul of the sanctions, but if the personal attacks continue, its likely that further restrictions will be placed on your editing. Shell ^babelfish 20:13, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. I believe I was and am following the relevant policies and guidelines. Elonka disagrees, but refuses to discuss the issue. As long as Elonka refuses to give rationale for her actions, no one can be expected to respect her decisions, let alone follow her interpretations of policies and guidelines which she cannot or will not explain. --Ronz (talk) 21:25, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I've taken a look at the discussions between you and Elonka and honestly, I'm not sure why you think she hasn't given a rationale. It looks like she's explained it several times and tried explaining it in several ways, so could you maybe help clarify what about those explanations you don't feel was sufficient? You were asked to clean up your personal attacks and stop making them; you didn't. If you believed that changing "your are a troll" to "you are acting like a troll" was sufficient, this should be your clue that you were incorrect and to avoid these words in the future. Seems pretty cut and dry. Shell ^babelfish 22:33, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. Please read WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. Saying that someone's behavior is in violation of policies or guidelines, which is what I did, is perfectly acceptable. Even Elonka thinks so, judging by her behavior. --Ronz (talk) 22:48, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't just repeat yourself

Communicate: If in doubt, make the extra effort so that other people understand you, and you get a proper understanding of others. Being friendly is a great help. It is always a good idea to explain your views; it is less helpful for you to voice an opinion on something and not explain why. Giving an opinion helps in convincing others and reaching consensus.

Simply repeating yourself, especially when others have clarified themselves, is a waste of time at best. --Ronz (talk) 21:46, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Assume good faith

Assuming good faith also does not mean that no action by editors should be criticized, but instead that criticism should not be attributed to malice unless there is specific evidence of malice.

So, according to WP:AGF, pointing out an editor's violation of policies or guidelines is specifically not a violation of WP:AGF. However, accusing someone of malice, such as accusing someone of trying to intimidate another, is most definitely a violation of WP:AGF. --Ronz (talk) 03:58, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No personal attacks

However, when there are disagreements about content, referring to other editors is not always a personal attack. A posting that says "Your statement about X is wrong because of information at Y", or "The paragraph you inserted into the article looks like original research", is not a personal attack. Or sometimes you could say instead—"The paragraph inserted here [DIFF] into the article looks like original research", which also is not a personal attack, and avoids Second Person (grammar), and the DIFF cuts down confusion.

So, does following WP:AGF while criticizing another editor's actions violate WP:NPA. Some editors say so. --Ronz (talk) 04:14, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Civility

Editors are expected to remain civil, refrain from making personal attacks, operate within the scope of policies, and are urged to be responsive to good-faith questions.

Sadly, it appears some editors assume bad faith of others to avoid answering their questions.

Judgmental tone in edit summaries (e.g. "snipped rambling crap") or talk-page posts ("that's the stupidest thing I've ever seen").

Lies, including deliberately asserting false information on a discussion page in order to mislead one or more editors.

Quoting another editor out-of-context in order to give the impression that he or she hold views they do not hold, or in order to malign them.

--Ronz (talk) 04:14, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requests and questions

Please detail exactly what you feel is uncivil. I'd also like to know your opinion on if he misrepresented me, and what the proper response to misrepresentation should be (regardless of your opinion on if he did so). --Ronz (talk) 19:20, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
We're clearly talking around each other now. I'd like to get these issues worked out. How should I proceed? --Ronz (talk) 20:16, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Question #1: Do you feel I acted in good faith in refactoring Talk:Quackwatch (editing on 5 and 6 July)? --Ronz (talk) 18:14, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Question #1.1 Do you feel I acted in good faith, refactoring my comments in Talk:Quackwatch (editing on 5 and 6 July), to focus on content and actions rather than the editor? (Please note that I'm not asking about how you think I felt. I'm asking you to give some detail of your rationale.) --Ronz (talk) 18:50, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

Hi Ronz, feel free to move my comment if it's messing things up... Just wanted to offer that if you're collecting statements from history, it'll be more effective (and easier) if you supply a diff of the specific comment. Not that I'm sure that I understand entirely what you're doing here, but I did want to mention that as a suggestion. :) --El on ka 16:19, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine. I was definitely going to provide diffs. You had asked what questions I had asked that you didn't answer, so I'm making a list. --Ronz (talk) 16:22, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, let me know when you're done and I'll take another look. Also, if you'd like to contact me off-wiki in IMs, that might help too. Sometimes the rapid back and forth communication in instant messaging, can be more effective than the slow on-wiki communication. Do you have AIM, Yahoo, MSN, GoogleTalk? If not, I could talk you through setting one of them up. --El on ka 16:31, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm proceeding with a mediated discussion, as I've already indicated. --Ronz (talk) 16:34, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Ronz. I happened to be reading User talk:Elonka and saw your discussion there. I thought I would try to help a bit. Elonka had mentioned this diff: [11]. Let me explain why I think this diff can be considered uncivil. You said, " Now please follow it rather than making an exemplary case of grossly violating meta:What is a troll?." The word "exemplary" here is unnecessary and a more diplomatic wording would leave it out. The word "grossly" is unnecessary and I think it's uncivil when applied to an editor or what an editor is doing. Stating that someone is violating meta:What is a troll? is, in effect, calling the person a troll. That page is not a policy nor is it a guideline; it's merely an essay. The existence of an essay doesn't create the right to apply an unpleasant noun or adjective to a person. In order to be civil, it's a good idea to avoid using any nouns (other than their username), adjectives or adverbs to describe another editor (unless it's a compliment). Calling someone a "troll" seems uncivil to me. I didn't look at the previous history before that diff, but I think the wording seems uncivil to me regardless of the previous history.

One way to decide whether a comment is uncivil is to wait before posting it, and then when you're in a fresh frame of mind, read it and try to imagine how you would feel if you were the person receiving the comment. It can be hard to imagine this when you're in the middle of a heated debate, though. You could also have a friend or family member read the comment and tell you honestly how civil it is.

If you think someone misrepresented what you had said, you could say something like "Actually, what I had said was ..." This straightens out the facts without attacking anyone. You could perhaps say "Actually, what editor X said about me was not true. What I actually said was ..." but you have to be careful: I would advise not to go a step further and state that someone was lying. If you need to correct a false statement, I suppose it has to be done on the page where the statement occurred; but if you want to complain about the behaviour of another editor, I think it's usually best to do it on the other editor's talk page, rather than more publicly on an article talk page.

Different admins will have different interpretations of precisely what is or is not civil. One can never be completely sure what things one has said might be considered uncivil. It's good to err on the side of caution in following policies. Once someone has been blocked or banned recently, they tend to be held to a higher standard and more likely to be blocked or banned again. This tends to happen even if the person has not been given additional advice or warnings. Also, you continued pressing Elonka for answers after Elonka asked you to stop. I understand your frustration, but nevertheless that could be considered disruptive or harassment. Sometimes on Wikipedia we need to keep quiet and make do without full answers to our questions. Asking questions has a cost: it takes up the time of other editors, and editors' time is a valuable resource. I hope this comment helps you to understand the situation. Feel free to discuss further with me; if you reply here I'll probably see it, or on my talk page. ☺ Coppertwig (talk) 01:03, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Stating that someone is violating meta:What is a troll? is, in effect, calling the person a troll." Nonsense. I think it's misrepresentation of what I said and assumes bad faith on my part.

"I think it's usually best to do it on the other editor's talk page, rather than more publicly on an article talk page" Yep. Exactly what I did.

Also, you continued pressing Elonka for answers after Elonka asked you to stop." Nonsense. I repeatedly asked to take other approaches to resolving the situation. My suggestions were ignored at best.

I appreciate your stepping in here to help, responding in a way that I expect of someone following WP:TALK and WP:DR. Thanks! --Ronz (talk) 03:48, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Ronz. Thanks for your welcoming message. I hope I can be of assistance.

Ah, so you didn't mean to imply that the person was a troll. However, I think most people looking at your words would jump to that conclusion. It would be a good idea, I think, to re-word it or post a clarification. When citing that essay, I think it's a good idea to quote the particular part you're referring to: that might help to reduce the perception of calling the person a troll. It may also be a good idea, whenever citing that essay, to say something like "I don't mean to imply you're a troll, but..." or maybe it's better just to not cite that essay. For example, I've learned to avoid citing WP:NPA except maybe in the most egregious cases, even when I would like to mention something that happens to be stated on that page, because merely mentioning that page is taken in an inflammatory way; and I have trouble imagining myself citing the troll essay at all. I apologize for jumping to conclusions. Coppertwig (talk) 16:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was specifically trying to avoid any name-calling. In hindsight, I should have just mentioned that the RfC/U was long overdue and that I'd be starting one, given that the recent behavior was a compelling reason to start one despite some recent improvement. However, I find that essay more descriptive than citing WP:DE and WP:NPA. It also goes back to the only solution we've yet found for dealing with such disruption: pointing out the problematic behavior then ignoring the editor until the problematic behavior stops. --Ronz (talk) 17:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where you said re using other editors' talk page: "Yep. Exactly what I did." The diff I posted above was at Talk:Quackwatch, not a user talk page. I meant using user talk instead of, not in addition to, an article talk page for such discussions. Coppertwig (talk) 16:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My point was that I did use the editor's talk page. --Ronz (talk) 17:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Re Elonka: Elonka here seems to me to be giving a clear message of not wanting to talk about it any more. She said, "so it is disruptive for you to keep repeating that I "haven't answered your questions" or that I have "refused to explain"." After she said this, you said "I had hoped to get you to clarify your viewpoints, but was unable to get you to do so". In my opinion, here you are doing just what she asked you not to continue doing. Coppertwig (talk) 16:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not everyone gets what they want. We're working on an encyclopedia here. I felt I was following WP:DR to resolve a problem. --Ronz (talk) 17:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Saying "nonsense" didn't convince me of anything and doesn't give me the feeling that my opinions are respected. Coppertwig (talk) 16:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry you feel that way. I explained myself. It wasn't meant to offend, rather to express my offense. --Ronz (talk) 17:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please explain why these informative links are SPAM.

Greetings Ronz!

"Djembe" edit history
(cur) (last) 16:09, 29 September 2007 Ronz (Talk | contribs) (14,241 bytes) (→External links: spam) (undo)
(cur) (last) 16:09, 29 September 2007 Ronz (Talk | contribs) (14,336 bytes) (→Further reading: spam) (undo)

10:47, 14 July 2008 (UTC)onelover

Because you spammed them. See the multiple warnings by multiple editors on your talk page. --Ronz (talk) 22:55, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Barrett v. Rosenthal

[12] Hi Ronz, I responded under your comments and would appreciate it if you would take a peek. I think the new info should be removed immediately primarily for WP:BLP. I stated this on the talk page but would really appreciate your response before I do anything, though maybe someone else already has. Also, could you explain to me my questions about the hidden external links that are in the belly of the article and the usefulness of hiding anything in the article like this? I only know of one way to look for hidden items in an article which is hitting the edit this page button. Is there an easier way to do this? It feels like I am doing it the hard way. As always thanks for your help. --CrohnieGal^Talk 18:46, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Will take a look.

~~"could you explain to me my questions about the hidden external links that are in the belly of the article and the usefulness of hiding anything in the article like this" I don't understand.~~ --Ronz (talk) 18:47, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see what you're talking about. QuackGuru commented out all the external links, without discussion. Not good. --Ronz (talk) 18:51, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for disappearing after making a comment here. I got called off my computer to watch a movie, hubby said I was online long enough, "time to take a break" :). I have read a bit of what has gone on since I signed off yesterday but I am still playing catch up. I'll be back! Thanks, --CrohnieGal^Talk 12:12, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your edits to Multivariate Adaptive Regression Splines‎

Thanks for your attention and edits to the new article on Multivariate Adaptive Regression Splines Stephen Milborrow (talk) 19:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. It looks like it's already getting some attention from other editors. --Ronz (talk) 19:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

not going to do tildes to sign b/c it weirds me out that you want an official signature, sorry.

Cookie Magazine is a nationally published print magazine. They themselves have posted this article and everything that I have added to her page is FACT, with documentation as required. I added citations where you asked for them, and re-wrote to remove anything that could possibly be construed as opinion.

Attempts to censor me on this are being documented. Please do not block my IP from using and/or contributing to this site. I should have a right to add factual information whether it is in line with what another user/reader likes or not. I add comments regarding deletion because censorship is evil. That's a fact, too.

Thanks for your help and continued attention. Hundreds of thousands of people are mad about this and are seeing and hearing about it on national news outlets that are recognized as such. This is a current event, the following outlets have reported on it:

E! Online Salon Discover Magazine Salon E! Online Perez Hilton (i know, i know, but he gets over a million hits a day, hundred of uproarious comments (find another word if that makes you happier. i tried to tone it down. sorry, but the pure number of visitors to his site justifies my comments. I write my fiction elsewhere. :)

Even AAP representatives have been mentioned in stories that concern this event. http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2008/07/15/amanda_peet/

I'm a new user, so I'm still learning how to use your site but am trying to be mindful of your rules and regs. Thanks again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ucccode1readaboutit (talk • contribs) 20:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please use the talk page to discuss this and I'm sure we can put together something that's acceptable. If you have the reference information for the news outlets you mention, those would be extremely helpful. Please add them to the article talk page here: Talk:Amanda_Peet#References.

Thanks for the link. I've added it to the discussion. --Ronz (talk) 20:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yorick Wilks Page

I've tagged the article so that other editors might help, after doing some very superficial and straight-forward cleanup there. --Ronz (talk) 21:31, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Spamming?

Apologies if my work is viewed as spamming, that was never my intention. Please look at my website and the information that is within it. There is a great deal of original work here, not the simple "hack" of mimicing Goldratt. I thought that it was easier to provide this external link than to enter into endless editing. Clearly all of the TOC pages are quite a mess and quite full of mis-understanding. I don't want to enter into a debate over this, I know that effort that went into one entry in the TOCICO dictionary.

Feel free to e-mail me at youngman@dbrmfg.co.nz if you like. I would like people to be able to understand TOC.

Regards

Dr Kelvyn Youngman Systemica (talk) 05:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My concern is primarily with how the link has been added to the articles, rather than the content of the site. See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam#spam.dbrmfg.co.nz --Ronz (talk) 14:49, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I understand your perspective now. On the pages concerned I would like to do some editing. The link business can wait, I will probably in due course suggest some links for others to decide upon. However, in the Theory of Constraints page there is some opinion that I find negative that I would like to see remove - it is closer to a personal attack. I know the person who is making the claims (but it might not be he who has made the entry). It would be good to tidy this up, and I will do it on the talk page in the next couple of days. I'll paste this back to the talk page as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Systemica (talk • contribs) 07:17, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In response to a "spamming" message

Hi Ronz,

I hope you are well. I wanted to contact you regarding a message I received from you, and tell you a bit about findingDulcinea as I believe your current perception is incorrect. It is not a blog nor do they utilize amateur writers. They are a highly editorialized Website that employees 30 full-time, experience writers and Web researchers. Every piece of content goes through a strict 5-step QA process. While they do link off the page to outside sources, the bulk of their articles are original content.

This is not a spamming operation and I am not just trying to get traffic for the site. Myself and about two other people at findingDulcinea post the occasional findingDulcinea link but only because we are avid Wikipedia users outside of our worklife and often find pages that could use a well-rounded view of the topic at hand. Internally we do NOT employ any type of spamming scheme on Wikipedia and tend to deter employees from doing so because we want Wikipedia links to happen organically for us. In light of your message to me, I took a look at our traffic reports, and saw that we do get some traffic from Wikipedia and that users are spending a lot of time (like 5:00+ minutes) on the site when they come from Wikipedia, which means that they ARE finding it useful, otherwise they wouldn't stay there. All I ask is that you check out the site and see for yourself --- you may even find it useful as a personal resource. If users are posting links to it on pages than they must be finding us useful.

I encourage feedback from you and hope that in the future if you see links to us that you consider this new information before simply removing them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hermie2007 (talk • contribs) 15:34, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please read WP:SPAM and consider contributing to the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam#http:.2F.2Fwww.findingdulcinea.com. --Ronz (talk) 21:01, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

FindingDulcinea email

Hi Ronz. Did you happen to email me with a forward of a message this company sent you (looks similar or same to the above)? I can't tell if you sent it or if they sent it to me with an accidental "Hi Ronz" at the top. DreamGuy (talk) 19:38, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, I didn't forward you any email. --Ronz (talk) 20:59, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bubba73 was out of line

And you know it. He reverted a talk page with an accusation of vandalism, rather than an answer to a question. Vandalism on a TALK PAGE. Are you kidding me? Bubba73 decides what gets discussed? And what he doesn't like is vandalism? Please explain that. Is he somebody special? Why does he get to do that? JimZDP (talk) 01:19, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]