Talk:Wild Arms

Title

The title should be Wild ARMs, only A-R-M should be in Caps. CyberSkull 23:30, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)

See latest section. --Zeno McDohl 21:44, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Wild ARMs series

Ok, upon further consideration (and after I finished fixing the links >.<) I have come to the conclusion that this article should be Wild ARMs series, since it contains info on all of them. CyberSkull 04:33, 2005 Jun 14 (UTC)

WA2

Wild ARMs 2 is the same as Second Ignition. No need to have a different link and page for it. --Zeno McDohl 03:37, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

I got all the game names from Gamespot.com. It lists 2nd Ignition as a separate game released before Wild ARMs 2. But I can't say I have played either, so if you're more knowledgeable about the topic you're more than welcome to change it! Dragonfly888 17:23, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

2nd Ignition is the Japanese title for the game, it is released in the us as Wild ARMs 2. see http://psx.ign.com/objects/012/012916.html Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 00:23, 2005 August 1 (UTC)

Cool. Thanks for correcting me! Dragonfly888 13:21, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Objection to Title Capitalization

I object to the change in capitalization brought forward. This is a Bad Meme that clearly originated with RPGamer several years ago, one which I've been tracking for quite some time and would like to see corrected.

There is no evidence of "ARM" being capitalized in the title from original US or Japanese sources (Neither Sony Computer Entertainment America nor Sony Computer Entertaiment, Inc.). xSEED games and Agetec only capitalized that name in the title by going purely on media and fan sources—who were, in turn, acting off of the badly-capitalized information from RPGamer.

Further, on a subjective level, it's sort of baseless to use the capitalization of "ARM" due to its use as an acronym in the series; as stated in the entry itself, the acronym "ARMS" has also been used—as both an acronym for an organization (Wild Arms 2nd Ignition) and as a type of weapon (The anime Wild Arms Twilight Venom, creation of which was sactioned directly by Sony Computer Entertaiment). In addition, the noun "Arms" also has several meanings which Media Vision is quite aware of, as they are used thematically throughout the series.

Thematics are subjective, however, I'll admit; we could argue subjectivity all day, and there's precious little place for subjectivity here, so we'll elide that. Let's rely on fact instead.

By the evidence that I have seen presented, there are only two official capitalization schemes that I have actually seen used:

• "Wild Arms" in proper capitalization, the scheme used by SCEA while they handled publishing of the series in the United States (1, 2, 3), and by ADV Films in US distribution of Twilight Venom;
• "WILD ARMS" in full caps, the scheme used by SCEI; by the developer, Media Vision (1 2); and by SCEI again on the recently-opened Official Wild Arms site (which will prove that the scheme has not changed).

I have not seen any other configuration that has not been from a media or fan source, nor from a publisher/localization house that is not Sony.

Now. if you have any official evidence at all challenging this—any evidence whatsoever that I might have missed— please bring it forward. I'd very much like to see it; if it proves me wrong, I will happily hold my peace on this matter. But if there is nothing else that may be brought forward, I would request that the matter be discussed.

Much appreciated. Thank you. --E. Megas 03:23, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Interesting note. I have always used Wild ARMs, but now that I check I see nothing with the titles being that way. Most are WILD ARMS. I'll look into this, I own all of the original games. I'll check through the manuals, etc. --Zeno McDohl 04:28, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

• Okay, I checked the US Wild Arms 1 manual. In the back under credits, it says Wild Arms Development Staff. Same casing in the US Wild Arms 2 and 3 manual. Looks like you're right. --Zeno McDohl 21:33, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

So, could you simply move all the articles which can be moved without admin help and drop a list of pages that need to be moved with admin help on my talk page? Thanks. —Nightstallion (?) 08:33, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Both the manual and game case for the fourth game refer to itself as "Wild ARMs 4".. 69.183.52.75 00:11, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

As you can obviously tell here, it's "WILD ARMS 4" on the case. --Zeno McDohl 04:07, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

69.183.52.75: This is indeed true; xSEED Games used "Wild ARMs," however. because they didn't check the previously established official capitalizations used by Sony and ADV and went straight for the version seen in media sources. This is possibly also true of Agetec's US release of Alter Code: F as well, though I don't have actual confirmation of this yet (since I haven't yet played Alter Code: F myself).

However! If you look at Sony Computer Entertainment America's catalog entry for the game (note that the entries below are press releases from xSEED themselves, so don't try pointing to them!), and the official romanization on wild-arms.net, you will see that they are very contradictory. Seeing as SCEA were the previous translators (who abdicated the Wild Arms series in the US, granted), and Media Vision themselves were the original creators of the series, their capitalization forms take precedence.

So...Yeah. "Wild Arms" (US) or "WILD ARMS" (Japan). Take your pick. Both are valid. --E. Megas 01:04, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

And since this is the English Wikipedia, I'd say stick to Wild Arms. --Zeno McDohl 01:22, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I still believe we should keep Wild ARMs at least for parts 4 and 5; it does not really matter WHY xSEED used this capitalization; the fact remains they used it, and as the official publishers of the game in the US their name is the definite one in North America. Publishers often change names for international releases, and just because they are not the original developers does not make their naming obsolete; As former games in the series published by Sony may have had the name Wild Arms, this here is not published by them, and it is the new publishers decision how to call their own publications; in this case xSEED decided on Wild ARMs, and it is not up to Wikipedia to say they were wrong and change it.--108 Stars (talk) 10:32, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

But this is the English Wikipedia, not the US Wikipedia... 505 Games, the European publisher of Wild Arms 4 and Wild Arms 5, use "Arms" in both cases (page 2). 88.161.129.43 (talk) 07:06, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I really wish they would decide on something. Today my watchlist page had an enormous wall of editwarring in every WA article between two people arguing over the title. It's such a stupid thing to argue about to such an extent. - Norse Am Legend (talk) 19:41, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

For one, you are mistaken, the edit warring was not just over the title changes. A massive amount of info was changed or incorrectly altered, and the editor also removed references to other games, solely based on the fact that he had not played them.

As for the title, why is this even being discussed? The spelling used in logos counts for nothing, since lots of video games opt to simply capitalize the entire title. Think. Why is this game called "Wild ARMs"? The "Wild" part is obviously because of the heavy Wild West theme in the games. The "ARMs" is obviously because of the "ARMs" in the game, so the spelling would obviously be the same. The fact that XSEED also uses this supports that, and they use it in spite of the logos. I'll contact them, since they actually return their emails with good answers, so but I highly doubt they just got the name from fans. Do you guys honestly believe XSEED or any other company goes around looking how fans spell things?Fragments of Jade (talk) 07:26, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

the editor also removed references to other games, solely based on the fact that he had not played them.

'Sounds like an assumption to me...

The spelling used in logos counts for nothing, since lots of video games opt to simply capitalize the entire title. Think.

Er... Maybe you should think. People came up with examples of the title being spelled "Wild Arms" for all the games in the series. "Wild Arms" is not all caps, Jade.

The "ARMs" is obviously because of the "ARMs" in the game, so the spelling would obviously be the same.

Not necessarily. Especially considering the fact the acronym was actually "A.R.M.S." for "Awkward Rush & Mission Savers" in Wild Arms 2nd Ignition, and "Armaments of Ruined Macabre-Sabaoth" in Wild Arms Twilight Venom[1].

The fact that XSEED also uses this supports that

... and the fact that SCEA and 505 games don't... You know the rest.

I'll contact them, since they actually return their emails with good answers

Don't bother: e-mails aren't considered valid sources around here, as you should know. Besides, you forged an e-mail in the past. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 08:05, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

It was not an assumption-the editor actually said this as his reason when he edited the references out. In all of the logos for the series, the name is "WILD ARMS", but again, this means nothing. 505 Games also uses "WILD ARMS" just as much as "Wild Arms". Can you prove they just did not assume that was the title based on the complete capitalization of the logo? It's worth nothing they make "assumptions" like this with a lot of their games, including "Ar tonelico". The "ARMs" in the game is undoubtedly the "ARMs" from the title. You bring up ARMS from WA2, but that's a different thing. ARMS is the abbreviation of a squad. The ARMs are featured in that game two, though a lot less than in the other games in the series. And WA: TV takes place in parallel universe to Filgaia. People say they don't support this, but that's hardly proof. And I've never forged an email, so don't even try saying otherwise. You merely chose not to believe the content of one I posted, because it went against your argument. I suggested you email them yourself, but you refused, so you've no right to go around making accusations.Fragments of Jade (talk) 08:24, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

It was not an assumption-the editor actually said this as his reason when he edited the references out.

Now, that's not an assumption, that's a lie.

In all of the logos for the series, the name is "WILD ARMS", but again, this means nothing. 505 Games also uses "WILD ARMS" just as much as "Wild Arms".

Indeed "WILD ARMS" tells us nothing about the capitalization of the title. But "Wild Arms" (as opposed to "Wild ARMS") does.

Can you prove they just did not assume that was the title based on the complete capitalization of the logo?

Can you prove that they did? The burden of proof? Somewhere in your general area right now.

You bring up ARMS from WA2, but that's a different thing. ARMS is the abbreviation of a squad.

So what? That's still an example of the acronym not being "ARM."

WA: TV takes place in parallel universe to Filgaia.

All games take place in different/parallel Fargaias, as Kaneko Akifumi himself explained here.

People say they don't support this, but that's hardly proof.

And XSEED Games supporting the capitalization "ARMs" somehow is proof? How does that one work?

And I've never forged an email

Why didn't you post the headers, then? What was so hard about that?

You merely chose not to believe the content of one I posted, because it went against your argument.

Actually, I suspected it was forged because: 1) it sure took you a long time to finally copy/paste it (at one point, you actually argued that you couldn't show it to us because it was in your inbox... seriously, now), 2) it was really short, even shorter than your previous (and contradictory) recounts, 3) it contained a typo you had been making consistently up to that point, 4) you wouldn't post the headers nor tell us how you contacted that service exactly.

I suggested you email them yourself, but you refused

Not true. Like I explained, I looked for an e-mail to contact Konami of America about that matter, but all I found was their technical support. Which is why I (and others) asked you about the e-mail address you used to contact them. But you wouldn't tell us.

you've no right to go around making accusations.

You, too, accused people of forging e-mails, remember? And Thaddius spontaneously posted the entirety of his e-mail, headers included. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 09:19, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not a lie-he blatantly said it, and it's really none of your business. I do prove 505 makes titles mistakes, and even provided and exampled-Ar tonelico. Because "ARMS" is something completely seperate from "ARMs" and is in that one game alone and really has nothing to do with the series overall. The games taking place in seperate worlds is nothing but a theory-officially, there is no answer, and this is stated by the creators themselves. Also, said theory is heavily proven wrong by many things within the games themselves, especially by words spoken by Felius in XF, but here is not the place to have that discussion, since it would take up too much space and be full of series spoilers. I posted the entirety of the email, and that's what I was asked to do. You wanted the ticket number, and I was not about to give that to you, since it violates rules and could easily allow you to pretend to be me. Also, I told you I did not want to post the email since you would simply call it fake, which you did. And lastly, I accussed that person of posting a fake email because they did, and their earlier lies hardly helped matters. Why are you even here anyway? Do you even play these games? Because it's more than a little suspicious how you keep popping up on articles where I edit.Fragments of Jade (talk) 09:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not a lie-he blatantly said it

Prove it and post a link, like I did.

it's really none of your business

Hey, you're the one who put that on the table, here.

I do prove 505 makes titles mistakes

Proving they're fallible and proving they're wrong when they spell the title as "Wild Arms" are two different things.

The games taking place in seperate worlds is nothing but a theory

I just linked to an interview of Kaneko stating that they do take place in different Fargaias. Bad faith much?

I posted the entirety of the email, and that's what I was asked to do.

You were asked (many times) to post the headers, and you never did. Why not? I can't think of anything. Except if you were lying about the e-mail in the first place, of course.

You wanted the ticket number

I never asked for that, I asked for an e-mail address.

I was not about to give that to you, since it violates rules and could easily allow you to pretend to be me.

"Rules"? And why would I want to pretend to be you anyway? Again, you're not making sense, Jade...

lastly, I accussed that person of posting a fake email because they did

So you can make that kind of accusations, huh? Well, that's convenient.

their earlier lies hardly helped matters.

1) Yes, let's just accuse Thaddius of "earlier lies." No need to be specific at all, here. Baseless accusations are the best kind of accusations.

2) On the other hand, as confirmed by an admin, you lied (repeatedly) about not being 76.120.173.40 (and probably 24.3.180.166 as well, judging from WHOIS) and used several identities to push your views during a debate. That's bad form, Jade. In fact, you should be thankful that Thatcher didn't block you for sock puppetry. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 10:15, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Go to the history of Wild ARMs 5 and see for yourself, or go to his talk page where we briefly discussed it. I put it here because someone else, whose business it also isn't, mentioned it and misunderstood why the editting war happened. And you've been butting in far before it was posted here. They've miscapitalized numerous titles on their site, so why should Wild ARMs be an exception? It's clear that they don't look into the titles of the games they list. The Famitsu article you provide is in Japanese. I've showed it to a friend of mine who speaks the language, but even the most accurate of translations won't help much in this case, due to gaps between the two languages and how many ways certain words can be taken. Stating the games take place in "worlds seperate from eachother" could just mean that the stories revolve around different character and a different main plot, and are thus not direct sequels. I'd guess you've never played XF, since the parallel worlds issue is touched upon and somewhat cleared up. And for the millionth time-I posted the whole of the email. There's no more text to post. You did indeed ask for the ticket, and you pretending to be me was a risk, and even if unintended, would be what the email receivers would have thought, since tickets are not meant to be shared. I'm not going into detail about that here, because that issue has nothing to do with this, and you need to just let it drop. My accusations were well-based, while yours were not.Fragments of Jade (talk) 10:35, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Go to the history of Wild ARMs 5 and see for yourself, or go to his talk page where we briefly discussed it.

I did, and nowhere does he say that. Again, post proof (link) or retract.

They've miscapitalized numerous titles on their site, so why should Wild ARMs be an exception?

Faulty logic.

Besides, 505 Games aren't the only ones spelling the title as "Wild Arms" anyway. If anything, "Wild ARMs" is the exception, not the rule, judging from the examples mentioned so far in this discussion.

The Famitsu article you provide is in Japanese. I've showed it to a friend of mine who speaks the language, but even the most accurate of translations won't help much in this case, due to gaps between the two languages and how many ways certain words can be taken.

That's bullshit, Jade. Kaneko is being crystal clear about that matter, in that interview.

for the millionth time-I posted the whole of the email.

For the millionth time, you didn't post the headers.

You did indeed ask for the ticket

Link, please?

you pretending to be me was a risk, and even if unintended, would be what the email receivers would have thought, since tickets are not meant to be shared.

Still not making sense, Jade. Why would I pretend to be you? And why would it matter anyway?

My accusations were well-based, while yours were not.

Absolutely shameless... 88.161.129.43 (talk) 10:49, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Look, just get lost. I'm not going through this again with you. I doubt you've ever even played this game. You're just gonna keep spouting absolute nonsense, just like you did the other time, so that no one can have any real discussion. That way, people will just get sick of it and give in to what you want. Well, that's not going to happen here. The title is, and will always be, "Wild ARMs". Anyone who has played the games knows what "ARMs" are, and it would make no sense for it to be spelled differently. As for the worlds issue, no one can talk sense to one-sided people like you, who refuse to accept any wrong on their own part. You don't even know Japanese, so what is being said in that article is not clear to you, and even if you did by some chance know the language, there's still no way he could be being "crystal clear", since the language gap would never let it happen. Go play your games elsewhere, so the rest of us can have a serious discussion.Fragments of Jade (talk) 11:07, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Look, just get lost.

Once again, you get very shy when you're asked to provide specific evidence. Funny, that.

I doubt you've ever even played this game.

I barely played one of the game of the series, indeed. So what?

The title is, and will always be, "Wild ARMs".

Just saying it won't make it true, Jade. You need actual arguments.

Anyone who has played the games knows what "ARMs" are, and it would make no sense for it to be spelled differently.

It's not about what would make sense according to you, it's about what is. How the title is actually spelled on official material. And as it turns out, all of the games have been capitalized as "Wild Arms" at least once, and only some of them have been capitalized as "Wild ARMs." 'Seems like a good argument for calling the series "Wild Arms" on Wikipedia...

one-sided people like you, who refuse to accept any wrong on their own part

You're one to talk.

You don't even know Japanese

Heh. How would you know? And I'm afraid I do know Japanese fairly well. 'Been working as a translator for years, now...

even if you did by some chance know the language

You sound confused. Which is it?

there's still no way he could be being "crystal clear", since the language gap would never let it happen.

Yeah, there's no way one could be crystal clear in Japanese. That's why Japanese people are in a constant state of bewilderment. And it's all because of the language gap between Japanese and English. For some reason.

'Still not making sense, Jade... 88.161.129.43 (talk) 11:27, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I repeat, just get lost. I'm getting sick of you stalking me. You only show up to join arguments when I get involved with them, and you never contribute anything of any actual value, just lie and make nasty remarks. It's impossible for anyone to have a discussion when you're involved. If you had actually played the games, then you would understand why the game is titled "Wild ARMs" as opposed to any other spelling. And you would know why it it pretty much impossible for the games to take place in parallel worlds. But since you have "barely even played one", you don't know anything about it.Fragments of Jade (talk) 11:36, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

You don't get to tell me to "get lost," Jade. I'm here because I disagree with you about the capitalization of the title, and I explained why. Like I said, it's not about what would "make sense" according to you, it's about how the title is spelled. And I'm afraid the fact I barely played the games is irrelevant: my points still stand.

And you don't get to call me (or anybody else, for that matter) a "liar" without explaining yourself. Baseless accusations? Not that classy. When I call you out on your lies, I provide evidence. You should try, someday. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 11:43, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I can tell you whatever I want. The only reason you're here is to try and start trouble with me, and it's getting old. You know nothing about the games-you're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. And as for proof, you haven't posted a thing, whereas I have. I've posted proof that 505 games incorrectly capitalizes games all the time, I've pointed out that it's made very clear in XF that the games cannot take place in parallel worlds, I've provided the painfully obvious reason why "Wild ARMs" is the correct spelling, and much more. You need to get over your psychotic need to argue with me and get involved in my life-it's rude and seriously creepy.Fragments of Jade (talk) 11:50, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I can tell you whatever I want.

'Afraid not.

The only reason you're here is to try and start trouble with me, and it's getting old.

Nope, I really am here because I disagree with you about the capitalization of the title. But it did bug me when I saw you make baseless accusations and mention e-mails. Not again, Jade. Post actual arguments and evidence.

as for proof, you haven't posted a thing

I posted evidence that some English versions of Wild Arms 4 and Wild Arms 5 capitalized the title as "Wild Arms", in response to the latest comment (at the time) regarding the matter, which argued that we should use "ARMs" for these games because of the US version. The fact the UK version disagrees is quite relevant.

I've posted proof that 505 games incorrectly capitalizes games all the time

Again, faulty logic. You haven't proved that their "Wild Arms" was a mistake.

I've pointed out that it's made very clear in XF that the games cannot take place in parallel worlds

You simply stated it and didn't provide any specific, whereas I posted an interview of Kaneko proving you wrong.

I've provided the painfully obvious reason why "Wild ARMs" is the correct spelling

It makes sense according to you. That's nice, but you'll need more than that. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 12:15, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

More lies and insults from you, as expected. You just can't handle being wrong. You haven't proved a thing, you're just grasping at straws. The 505 site is full of title errors, which makes it clear they just use basic capitalization for all titles. And on the flipside, you have not done anything to prove their spelling wasn't an error, even though all the other titles on the site would suggest as much. And they also used the "WILD ARMS" spelling as well. You have yet to provide one logical reason why XSEED is wrong, and your whole "they just took the spelling the fans are using" is bogus. Let's see some proof of that claim. Let's see some proof that the obvious title of "Wild ARMs" is wrong. "Arms" doesn't even make sense at all, as arms themselves have nothing to do with the story, whereas "ARMs" are a major part of the plot. It's similiar to the popular title "NiGHTS into Dreams". No matter how many people opt to say "Nights into Dreams", that will never be the official title, as it's named after the main character "NiGHTS", who is going into dreams.Fragments of Jade (talk) 12:28, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

More lies and insults from you, as expected.

More baseless accusations from you, as usual. Where did I lie, exactly? Where did I insult you, exactly? I guess we'll never know.

The 505 site is full of title errors, which makes it clear they just use basic capitalization for all titles.

Again, just because they're fallible, that doesn't necessarily mean their "Wild Arms" is wrong. Basic logic, Jade.

you have not done anything to prove their spelling wasn't an error

Was it an error? The burden of proof is on you.

they also used the "WILD ARMS" spelling as well.

So what?

You have yet to provide one logical reason why XSEED is wrong

I'm not arguing that they're wrong, I'm arguing that we have contradictory capitalizations for a couple of games in the series, and that we should use the more common one, i.e. "Wild Arms."

your whole "they just took the spelling the fans are using" is bogus

I never argued that (even if that's indeed a possibility), nor do I feel the need to. In my opinion, the fact the "Wild Arms" capitalization has been used for all the games in the series whereas the "Wild ARMs" one is limited to a couple of entries is a good enough argument.

It's similiar to the popular title "NiGHTS into Dreams".

Well, guess what. These things are debated, like it or not. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 12:41, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Again, just go away. You're not here for a discussion-you're here to harass me and try to start a fight. The burden of finding proof is not on me. You're the one who is trying to challenge what is written in the articles. "Wild Arms" is a title that makes no sense. "Wild ARMs", on the other hand does, and you have nothing that proves this spelling is not the proper one. The games themselves support that spelling. Your claims citing WA2 and TV were shot down, as was everything you have presented, so just go.Fragments of Jade (talk) 14:45, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

"Wild ARMs", on the other hand does, and you have nothing that proves this spelling is not the proper one.

And you have nothing to prove that "Wild Arms" is incorrect either. What I do have is evidence that "Wild Arms" is more commonly used.

The games themselves support that spelling.

Most of them don't, actually.

Your claims citing WA2 and TV were shot down

Nope, sorry. Not that it really matters anyway, here: that's original research. What matters is how the title is actually spelled.

By the way... You said here that it took a long time for many people, including yourself, to "fix" the Wild Arms 5 article. I'm only seeing two minor edits by you on the article's history, prior to the edit war that got you blocked [2][3]. How do you explain that? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 15:19, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

You need to stop stalking me and making up lies. "ARMs" is the official title, after the guns in the series, and EVERY GAME supports this by featuring them. You have no room to talk about it, since you've already admitted to barely even playing one. Thus, you have no basis for essentially every thing that you are saying. You can't say the games don't support that, nor can you say anything about WA2 or TV. You're just making up stuff. Fighting for the sake of fighting is immature and wrong, so just quit it already.Fragments of Jade (talk) 18:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

You need to stop stalking me and making up lies.

You need to stop making baseless accusations.

"ARMs" is the official title

Not for most games in the series, as we've seen during this discussion.

after the guns in the series, and EVERY GAME supports this by featuring them.

We're talking about the title, here, Jade.

You can't say the games don't support that

I just did. Most of the games support "Wild Arms."

nor can you say anything about WA2 or TV.

Sure I can, and I did. But again, that's irrelevant anyway, here. What matters is how the title is spelled on official material.

About that, I have to correct something I said earlier: the US version (I believe there's no UK version) of Wild Arms XF doesn't appear to be using the capitalization "Wild Arms" (unless I missed something). So that's one game that apparently always capitalizes its title as "Wild ARMs" (in English, anyway... the Japanese version uses the usual "WILD ARMS").

Yes, it looks like I have to do your job, Jade.

And I'll note that you didn't answer my question about your Wild Arms 5 edits... Not an easy one, huh? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 19:00, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Not content with simply restoring original research, bias/POV issues, strange capitalisations, removing punctuation, etc (as in this diff: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wild_Arms_5&diff=231947966&oldid=231889913), FoJ is now in such a rush to change every 'Arm' to 'ARM' that they are now breaking links to character pages and categories (as in this diff: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wild_Arms_2&diff=231949455&oldid=231948722), not to mention the spelling mistakes (seriously, FoJ, how hard is it to check dictionary.com to find out 'monikor' is not a word?) and mistaken word usage (you could have also used dictionary.com to find out what 'transverse' means).Mr T (Based) (talk) 18:43, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

No links are being broken-I made sure to double-check all of them. And it was actually you, in your hurry to revert my last edit that caused "moniker" to go back to being mispelled. If you'd bothered to look at my edit before undoing it, you'd see that the spelling mistakes you fixed were left intact. And for the record, it was originally "monikure"-YOUR edit changed it to "monikor".

Again, you can't say anything valid about something you know nothing about, 88. The official materials all use "WILD ARMS". However, this is something quite common with Japanese items, as most of the official materials I have for games prefert to use all-capitals for everything but the game subtitles.Fragments of Jade (talk) 19:09, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

No links are being broken-I made sure to double-check all of them.

I guess you should have triple-checked...

it was actually you, in your hurry to revert my last edit that caused "moniker" to go back to being mispelled. If you'd bothered to look at my edit before undoing it, you'd see that the spelling mistakes you fixed were left intact. And for the record, it was originally "monikure"-YOUR edit changed it to "monikor".

That's not true.

The word was misspelled "monikure" until this edit by Mr. T, which changed it to "moniker."

You then misspelled it as "monikor" with this edit.

Mr. T corrected it back.

You misspelled the word one more time.

The official materials all use "WILD ARMS".

In Japan, yes, it would seem they always use "WILD ARMS." But you'll note that when they use different sizes for some of the letters, they consistently fail to hint at a "Wild ARMs" capitalization: big "W" / "big "A" [4][5][6][7].

As for the English versions, like I said above, you can find the title being capitalized as "Wild Arms" for all games (except for Wild Arms XF, unless I missed something). 88.161.129.43 (talk) 19:30, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Not a single link on that page is broken. And your official links just include more "WILD ARMS", so you're still not proving anything. And where "Wild Arms" would be an easy mistake to make, "Wild ARMs" would not be. And it is also used for all the games.Fragments of Jade (talk) 19:39, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Not a single link on that page is broken.

Check your eyes: "List of Wild ARMs 2 Characters" and the "Wild ARMs" category. They're in red. 'Shouldn't be that hard, really.

And your official links just include more "WILD ARMS"

In all caps, yes, I never said otherwise. I was merely pointing out that some letters were bigger than others... and those letters were "W" and "A." That certainly doesn't hint at an intended "Wild ARMs" capitalization.

where "Wild Arms" would be an easy mistake to make, "Wild ARMs" would not be.

Considering the acronym "ARM" is used in-game, I can perfectly see how such a mistake could be made.

it is also used for all the games.

Prove it. I'm waiting for your links. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 19:50, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not broken, and the Wild ARMs category link, despite being in red, actually works just fine. You should try being patient some time, such as when a redirect was being done for the character page. Making letters bigger than others means nothing, so I do not know why you are even bringing it up. And you are mistaken if you believe companies play the games much before actually writing articles about them. I would be very surprised if any of the XSEED staff has ever even played the games, other than a few for their own entertainment.Fragments of Jade (talk) 19:53, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not broken

Not anymore, but that's because you just redirected it at 19:47, after your previous message, you weasel. The link was broken before that.

the Wild ARMs category link, despite being in red, actually works just fine.

It started working at 19:55, when you redirected it, Jade. It didn't work yet when you claimed that it did (19:53).

See, that's why I can call you a liar: the evidence is there.

Making letters bigger than others means nothing

If you say so, Jade.

you are mistaken if you believe companies play the games much before actually writing articles about them.

You know, I hear they actually translate these games sometimes. 'Might be a silly rumor though! 88.161.129.43 (talk) 19:59, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't call me names. I said in my last post that you just needed to be patient while I redirected it. And the category link did still work, it just didn't show everything. The very fact that you're now trying to claim the size of letters is relevant to your argument proves you're running out of ideas. You don't have anything conclusive. The game is called Wild ARMs because of the ARMs in the game-no other variation of this title would make sense. And, if that is not enough to convince, there are actually "Wild ARMs" in the game. Aside from ARMs know for going wild because of the Resistance Impulse and various other things, there is an actual dialogue in the game that speaks of "Wild ARMs". Of course, if you had played the games, you would know that.Fragments of Jade (talk) 20:07, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't call me names.

Sorry, but I call it like I see it.

I said in my last post that you just needed to be patient while I redirected it.

You said that the links weren't broken, when in fact, they were. Three times [8][9][10].

The very fact that you're now trying to claim the size of letters is relevant to your argument

Well, kinda, yeah? If the title is meant to be capitalized as "Wild ARMs"...

You don't have anything conclusive.

The fact the "Wild Arms" capitalization is the more common one of the two is good enough, in my opinion.

there is an actual dialogue in the game that speaks of "Wild ARMs".

We're still talking about the capitalization of the title, here, Jade. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 20:15, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

"Wild Arms" could easily just be mistake, since one who had never played the game would naturally assume that to be the title. Also, it is not used all that widely, while many other great sources do use "Wild ARMs". It's "ARMs" in the game, and there are even "Wild ARMs" in the game. You're losing more and more ground here-you better find something solid to stand on.Fragments of Jade (talk) 20:27, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

"Wild Arms" could easily just be mistake

Same thing for "Wild ARMs."

it is not used all that widely, while many other great sources do use "Wild ARMs".

Shall we make a list of official sources and the spellings they use for each game?

It's "ARMs" in the game, and there are even "Wild ARMs" in the game.

We're not talking about the dialogues, we're talking about the title. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 20:32, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

You think games are just given names for the heck of it? They are given specific names for a reason. This game has nothing to do with "arms", but it has everything to do with "ARMs" and them going wild, as well as the Wild West theme. "Wild ARMs" could not easily be a mistake. Looking at the title "WILD ARMS", no one who has not massively played the series would not automatically think "ARMs", but "Arms". Just like how "SILENT HILL" was released as "Silent Hill", which is also it's name in the game.Fragments of Jade (talk) 20:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

You think games are just given names for the heck of it?

I think the capitalization used in a title doesn't necessarily reflect the one used in the dialogues of the game.

It's not capitalization, but the Soulcalibur series of games deals with a sword called "Soul Calibur." The space isn't there in the trademark, and Namco apparently insists it shouldn't be in the title... but the name of the sword, on the other hand... 88.161.129.43 (talk) 20:51, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, even on the Japanese releases it is "SoulCalibur". The space may be ommited, but because the "C" is capitalized, you can still view them as seperate words put together to look fancy. "Arms" as opposed to "ARMs" would make no sense. There are no "Wild Arms" in the game, only various forms of "Wild ARMs".Fragments of Jade (talk) 21:00, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

even on the Japanese releases it is "SoulCalibur". The space may be ommited, but because the "C" is capitalized, you can still view them as seperate words put together to look fancy.

True. Still, no space.

There are no "Wild Arms" in the game, only various forms of "Wild ARMs".

Out of curiosity (I still say that's besides the point anyway), is the "W" always capitalized in the dialogues? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 21:17, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Lack of a space is just a fancy touch. And yes, it's actually "Wild ARMs" in the dialogue.Fragments of Jade (talk) 21:45, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Lack of a space is just a fancy touch.

If you go there, you could say the same thing about capitalization, Jade.

And yes, it's actually "Wild ARMs" in the dialogue.

Yeah, I saw that. Still, we're talking about the title, here. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 22:17, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

No, because the capitalization is meant to go with the ARMs featured within the game. "Wild Arms" makes no sense whatsoever, and you've yet to provide anything that makes it make sense.Fragments of Jade (talk) 22:31, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

---

Any progress on the name change back? Will someone process Nightstallion's request, or should I attend to the move myself? --E. Megas 18:59, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I haven't gotten around to doing it as you can tell, so if you want to move it yourself go right ahead. --Zeno McDohl 19:11, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Done! (For the most part)

I have not done a formal move of the anime entries yet, since I'm afraid I'd be crossing into some other person's purview if I do that. Would it be acceptable if that was done?

While I'm at it, I could also merge the two WATV entries if you'd like me to.

I can't change the names on the image filenames and the series box (which still includes "Category:Wild ARMs" in it, apparently). Doing that is admin-only access, right? --E. Megas 00:28, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Never mind, fixed the template. That leaves only the filenames to be changed.

Can that be done by a non-admin? I'm not certain... --E. Megas 07:51, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for doing the moves. I assume filenames can only be changed by admins, but I don't think it's necessary. Just as long as the image captions are correct. --Zeno McDohl 18:36, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Good article nomination on hold

This article's Good Article promotion has been put on hold. During review, some issues were discovered that can be resolved without a major re-write. This is how the article, as of June 22, 2007, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?: Expand lead per WP:LEAD. Otherwise, it's ok.

2. Factually accurate?: Well cited. Just one thing, when citing GameFAQs, the author is not "GameFAQs staff." If you don't know how to find the author of the file you cited, contact me and I can help you out on that. But this must be changed.

3. Broad in coverage?: Expand the critical response section more, if possible.

4. Neutral point of view?: Y

5. Article stability? Y

6. Images?: Image:MichikoNaruke.png needs a WP:FURG. There may also be concerns that it merely shows what she looks like (see the boilerplate message)

Please address these matters soon and then leave a note here showing how they have been resolved. After 48 hours the article should be reviewed again. If these issues are not addressed within 7 days, the article may be failed without further notice. Thank you for your work so far. — G1ggy ^Talk/_Contribs 04:58, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the help, G1ggy. I went ahead and expanded the into, added citations to some of the more dubious facts, fixed the GameFAQs references to include the names of contributors, and removed the Naruke image entirely since it's probably not going to get approved for use. The critical response section was expanded *slightly*, but it's difficult to add any more information without resorting to individual games' reception. If anything else is required, I will try and add it as soon as I can. Appreciate the help! Nall 03:51, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

GA Pass

As it has been on hold more than 7 days, I'm jumping in to pass this article for GAC. Good job! The only thing I had reservations about was that you were using gameFAQs as a source- random people's faqs aren't a very reliable source. I passed it anyway, though, as none of the cites in question were of major importance, but I still recommend finding a better source. --PresN 08:40, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I second this ;) Thanks PresN, and well done Nall! G1ggy ^Talk/_Contribs 03:22, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you both for your support! The article looks much better now. Nall 03:51, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

media vision

Where is it that media vision is a subsidiary of Sony? Just want clarification that this is a fact, and it should be cited somewhere.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.133.139.5 (talk) 16:22, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "Elw"

Could it be said somewhere on how to pronounce "Elw," perhaps have the Katakana spelling of it, since no Anglophone will have any remote idea on how to pronounce it? I actually think it's "el-loo" since the Katakana spelling I think is "Eruu."Jmg124 (talk) 15:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

That's how it's pronounced, though it's a spoiler how I know that.^^ I agree with you, though.Fragments of Jade (talk) 07:15, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Could you post that "spoiler" of yours? I'm interested.

Considering the kana spelling is "エルゥ", it would be pronounced "erū" by Japanese people, indeed... But the fact it's "エルゥ" instead of the simpler "エルー" or "エルウ", the spelling "Elw" and the similarities with Elves makes me wonder if the intended pronunciation wouldn't be something weird like "Elwood" minus the "ood" part... 88.161.129.43 (talk) 08:13, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Let's just say the world is verbally said in Wild ARMs XF. Anything more would be saying too much.Fragments of Jade (talk) 08:24, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Right... 88.161.129.43 (talk) 08:45, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Problem?Fragments of Jade (talk) 09:05, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, why so mysterious, Jade? Surely, we could do without the drama and cite our sources, here? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 09:25, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm not being "mysterious", I'm being considerate. There's no reason to post spoilers here. "Elw" is amongst the dialogue spoken in the game, and that's really all that needs to be said.Fragments of Jade (talk) 09:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh, OK. So it's not really a "spoiler" how you know that: you know that because the word is pronounced in that game. Based on the way you were putting it, I thought there was something more to it. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 10:18, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

The exact context in which the word is used would be considered a spoiler.Fragments of Jade (talk) 10:35, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I got that, but the exact context doesn't matter, right? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 10:58, 14 August 2008 (UTC)