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Afghan British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)
Antiguan British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Armenian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Austrian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Bahamian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Barbadian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Bolivian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Brazilian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
British Kurds (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
British Malays (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
British Nepali (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
British Serbs (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Burmese British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Chilean Briton (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Colombian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Croatian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Cuban British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Dominican British (Dominica) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Dominican British (Dominican Republic) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Ecuadorian Briton (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Egyptian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Filipino British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Georgian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Grenadian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Guyanese British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Indonesian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Israeli British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Japanese British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Lebanese British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Malaysian Britons (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Mauritian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Mexican Briton (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Montserratian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Moroccan British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
New Zealander British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Nigerian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Peruvian Briton (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Saint Kitts and Nevisian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Saint Lucian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Salvadoran British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Sierra Leonean British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Singaporean British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Somali Britons (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Tanzanian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Trinidadian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Uruguayan British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Venezuelan British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Vincentian British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Yemeni British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Violate Wikipedia:Avoid neologisms and Wikipedia:No original research. Many of the articles also include population estimates that are either unsourced or are referenced with a source that does not support the figure given. User:Stevvvv4444 seems to be creating articles for every conceivable group in the UK regardless of notabilty and has been warned many times but ignores advice. Better covered at articles such as British Asian, Latin American Britons, etc. Sorry for nominating so many articles in one go but this is the only way I could see to sort this mess out. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:51, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sadly these are only what I saw as the clear-cut cases. See User:Cordless Larry/Ethnic groups for some more! Cordless Larry (talk) 00:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I was mystified by the titles of the articles I was not sure that either the English Indonesians that I know about would identify themselves with that name - and I was wondering why and how the actual term fits with anything else, I could be very wrong - but if it is not self identification then what the xxxx is it all about? SatuSuro 00:31, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The titles are neologisms, which is part of the reason I have nominated them. Cordless Larry (talk) 00:35, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I will warn User:Stevvvv4444 that creating any more of these articles without establishing their notability will result in their being nominated for a block. Cordless Larry (talk) 00:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, although something like Baltic British would be a neologism too, I think. Cordless Larry (talk) 01:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Nigerian British coul probably be salvaged. Zagalejo^^^ 02:03, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps, but would need a reference or two first! Paulbrock (talk) 18:11, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, here's one to start you off. Zagalejo^^^ 18:59, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep Clear keep due to extensive notability. Also, no neoglogisms and NOR are not good reasons for deletion. Testmasterflex (talk) 03:45, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you think they are all notable? I can't see how articles such as Georgian British can be, when it states that there are only 551 Georgian-born people in the UK. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:39, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oops, my mistake. I see your point. I reviewed all the articles listed here and determined that this garbage should be deleted. My new opinion is Delete all this crap. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Testmasterflex (talkcontribs) 04:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suggest keep but rename to Bolivians in the United Kingdom, New Zealanders in the United Kingdom, etc. This would remove the neologism problem. The other issues - original research, inadequate sources etc - are not reasons for deletion, they're reasons to fix the articles. In a country the size of Britain I think most migrant groups are notable, and demonstrably so. Aggregation might be appropriate in some cases, but it won't be in others - not every nationality can be lumped into a convenient geographical grouping. --Helenalex (talk) 05:14, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • But they would still be based on very little if any source material. Most of these are pure original research. It's also worth pointing out that no other nationality has these en masse double-barrelled articles about every group. If we remove the unsourced material, we're left, in most cases, with a single sentence. --Jza84 |  Talk  11:36, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I haven't looked at every article, but those I have checked seem useful information about distinct groups (and there is worthwhile difference between people from St Kitts & Nevis and people from Antigua, etc). Need for some copyediting, sure (too much "who's" for "whose", etc), and maybe checking sources (found a ref in Israeli_British which didn't seem to support statement), but these articles should not be deleted. PamD (talk) 07:35, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. Fg2 (talk) 12:28, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep: Most of the groups mentioned have populations fast approachiing the 20-30,000 mark with the likelihood of more immigration of the aforementioned countries. In London alone, there are many boroughs with over 100 different languages spoken and these groups are all contributing in an important way, towards British society, so it is only right that their voice gets heard and they get the recognition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.53.63.209 (talk) 13:44, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This has nothing to do with recognising groups or denying that they make a contribution - it's to do with whether they are all notable enough to have their own articles. Surely it would be better to have a number of well-written, comprehensive articles such as Ethnic groups in the United Kingdom, British African-Caribbean community, Latin American Britons, etc. rather than many poorly sourced articles on individual groups? Furthermore, that these groups might grow over time is not relevant, per WP:NOTCRYSTAL. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:16, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with anon. A lot of them are certainly notable, and the ones Cordless Larry mentioned appear to be the less notable ones. There are several stub and start articles that are related to ethnicity, and we don't see them all being tagged and listed as articles for deletion, do we? A lot of them are still in their early stages, and to be fair, they can't suddenly become featured articles the day they are created—it takes time. Now, don't take this personally, but I really don't see why we need to AFD list every single damn article that is related to British dual ethnicity. ~ Troy (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, I really can't believe so many of my articles I have created have been nominated for deletion, I agree that many of them are not fully sourced, but many are. before I go any further, I believe that you nominating Brazilian British, Filipino British, Nigerian British, Pacific Islanders in the United Kingdom amongst a few others is a complete joke, these ethnic groups number in their hundreds of thousands, and contribute a huge deal to British society. It think the fact that you want to create one page to represent many ethnic groups is a completely unnecessary idea, Latin Americans and Caribbeans vary with religion, ethnicity and many other factors and placing them under one title is extremely controversial, I totally agree with you that many articles will need expanding, but I can help and work on that and ensure that all my future edits will be sourced. These really could become great articles and if one naming convention was agreed on, this could make the articles even better. It is extremely important to distinguish each individual ethnic group in a diverse nation like the UK. There are countless numbers of articles about ethnic groups in other countries that are even less significant than these and contain even less information (Paraguayan American being a good example). I really believe it would be a good idea to give these articles another chance, and I will ensure that the integrity of Wikipedia is kept, and that all articles contain enough information to make them worth while, at present there is no harm in keeping them, some need to be a lot better cited, and others don't. The only one I really agree with you nominating is Georgian British. Thanks Stevvvv4444 (talk) 17:22, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I understand that there is variation within broad groups, but such variation can be noted in more general articles. For instance, British people vary in terms of race, ethnicity, religion, etc. but there is still an article called British people which explains these variations. I disagree that there is not harm in keeping the articles as they stand. Not only do most of them lack adequate references, many contain misleading "estimates" of population sizes which are attributed to sources that in no way support the claims being made. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:37, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's why I said that I would ensure that all figures where put right, and there is plenty of sourced information, and honestly for example, what is wrong with the article Moroccan British, every single thing in the article is sourced, and it gives plenty of information on the ethnic groups history and population distribution. Stevvvv4444 (talk) 17:43, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
To take that example, the 74,000 population estimate comes from a forum post, which fails Wikipedia:Verifiability. There are also lots of unreferenced assertions such as "Moroccan migration to the UK began substantially in the 1960s with many arrivals being a mixture of the professional and unskilled, all coming in search of employment and a new life". Can I also ask that you sign in when you post comments? At the moment, while you're using your signature you are appearing in the page history as User:90.207.84.89. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:57, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And please don't remove AfD templates. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:01, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, like I said these articles can either have the information deleted or better sourced, they really do deserve a chance, and I know that you know that many of the articles are extremely important, and that you would just prefer to see them go than stay short and unsourced. Stevvvv4444 (talk) 18:05, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think the only reason you mentioned the Saint Kitts and Nevisian British article is because of the strange name, it is deifnately worth keeping, as there clearly is enough information about the ethnic group, as well as it listing the many famous British people of Saint Kitts and Nevis descent.Stevvvv4444 (talk) 18:15, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
None of which is referenced, I note. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:17, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You have just sourced the actual figure of Saint Kitts and Nevis born people in the UK, when you are clearly going to go ahead and delete all the articles listed above.Stevvvv4444 (talk) 18:20, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I referenced it, yes, and it's the only sourced statement in the whole article. A single population figure does not make a whole article. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I am not amazed of strange name. This article as well as most of the others do not explain why these group are significant. 6519 people, I doubt whether the term "Saint Kitts and Nevisian British" exists or not. FYI, Google throws total of 12 pages all on wiki mirror when you search for Saint Kitts and Nevisian British within quotes (which means exact words or phrase).Hitro 17:33, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment-British African-Caribbean community is enough for all countries in Caribbean islands. Information about many of the articles nominated here are covered within that article. No need for separate article for every country. Hitro 17:43, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Once again, I'm not saying that they should be "lumped together". Being in the same article doesn't mean that the differences between groups can't be outlined. There simply isn't enough notable information on these groups for them all to have individual articles. Being distinct doesn't in itself constitute notability. I'm distinct from my next-door neighbour, but I don't have my own article. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:41, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • There may be a case for replacing some of these articles with broader ones which have sections on the seperate countries - for example all the Caribbean countries could be grouped together as Caribbean British, with subheads for Jamaican British, St Lucian British or whatever (I have no idea how appropriate this would be, this is just a random example). Many of the criticisms made here are either reasons to fix rather than to delete, or reasons to delete some but not all of these articles. Why should a well sourced article be deleted because a similar article isn't? For that matter, why should a badly sourced article be deleted if the sources are out there? --Helenalex (talk) 00:32, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I would have loved to have nominated all of these articles individually so that we could debate each on its merits. However, that would have caused chaos at AfD so I nominated those articles which I thought weren't notable together. This isn't just about referencing, it's also about notability. Note that I haven't nominated British Indian, for example, which is clearly notable. Saint Kitts and Nevisian British, not so much... Cordless Larry (talk) 00:42, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I understand, but in any case, the articles need to have time and patience if you're ever going to give them a chance. I'm entirely sure that the articles' creators never intended for this. ~ Troy (talk) 23:43, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is a lot of correlation between referencing and notability. Indeed the WP definition of notability is related to the available references. Whilst the AFD was made in good faith, I do feel that too many articles are included here which should be judged on their own merit. Paulbrock (talk) 00:02, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep but delete articles with little or no results of pages with the same title on Google e.g. Bolivian British and keep those with more result returned like Brazilian, Colombian and Nigerian British especially where there are more results on Google that accredit the potential noteworthiness of the groups. The latter, especially are notable in that they are the largest of the diaspora outside Nigeria and there are enough famous people with worthy contributions to the UK of Nigerian descent, for a decent well referenced article to be put together. Much harder with Bulgarian, Basque, Maltese Georgian and Salvadorean British (WTF?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.45.249.215 (talk) 05:55, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have already said above, which ones should definately stay, but I am clueless to why the absolutely diabolical article Baltic people in the United Kingdom is not up for nomination, it has about two words in the entire article, neither of which are sourced. Stevvvv4444 (talk) 20:17, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I only nominated the ones that are neologisms here, and I was going to deal with articles such as that one later. Actually, I put a proposed deletion template on it but it was removed because apparently it's controversial enough to need to go to AfD. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:37, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep. There appears to be no rationale for deleting all of the articles. If "many" of the articles are unreferenced, that does not make it legitimate to delete all of them as a lot of these articles are simply in their early stages (as in you can't suddenly create a featured article). Also, considering the depth of how many articles are involved, there is simply no way to delete them all on the same basis. There needs to be a way to assess the worst articles first in a way that can be humanely kept track of. The article titles should be sorted and, as Helenalex said, grouped under less titles to allow for more composition. I agree that they need to be worked on and properly organized—or else there really wouldn't be much point in us being here. However, simply deleting them all will not solve the problem, and quite frankly, makes it harder to properly assess or deal with. ~ Troy (talk) 23:32, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Actually, these are the worst offenders, picked from an even broader selection of articles. There is a list here detailing the good, the bad, and the ugly (so to speak) of this list. Also, I appreciate your comment, but these are, quite simply, original research no matter how we present these for deletion. --Jza84 |  Talk  23:37, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Jza84, I know what you mean, but I'm still pretty sure that they can be worked on. However, what perplexes me is simply that I can't see how they should all be deleted just like that. I still think that there needs to be time to give them a chance, or else it will be harder to re-create the more notable ones (ie: ones that don't lack notability but just happen to need better sourcing or were recently started). While we obviously can't nominate each one that needs to be looked at, we still need to properly assess each and every one before doing away with these articles. Also, I'm sure that we could find sources for ones that have any significance at all. ~ Troy (talk) 23:49, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think we're all in agreement that one solution does not fit all of these. It will be helpful if we group them all according to what should be done with them, as in:
  • KEEP: Article is basically okay and subject group is notable.
  • FIX: Subject group is notable but article needs to be rewritten and/or properly sourced.
  • RENAME: Article is basically okay and subject group is notable but title is a neologism.
  • FIX AND RENAME: Both of above issues.
  • MERGE into broader article, generally covering the whole area/continent.
  • DELETE: Subject group is not notable.

The vast majority, along with quite a few on Larry's 'not sure' list can probably be merged into larger articles dealing with people from a particular geographical area - Eastern Europe, South East Asia, etc. In some cases these articles don't yet exist, but I think they should. There will probably be problems with the middle east - currently there is a page on British Arabs which it would not be appropriate to put Kurds, Armenians, Israelis and probably other groups into. Creating Middle Eastern Britons with the British Arabs page forking off from this should work, I hope.

The other issue is Oceania (a term which no one from that region actually uses). Lumping Australians and New Zealanders in with Pacific Islanders in the United Kingdom is misleading; Australians in Britain (not nfd even though it's awful) should be fixed and New Zealander Briton renamed to New Zealanders in Britain and have more references added. The other option is merging them into Immigrants from the white Commonwealth in Britain along with Canadians and white South Africans, but this would be problematic because plenty of NZers and Aussies are not white.

There are other articles which are good enough to be kept, like Brazilian British - this should stay as an article, forked from Latin American Britons. --Helenalex (talk) 02:25, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - I ask, in all good faith, that the above editor moderate his/her tone. I voted "keep" because I believe these articles to be notable and valuable to our project, and, hence, our readers, who will come to our encyclopedia wishing to find this information--this reason, and no other. Badagnani (talk) 05:59, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that there should be consistency across Wikipedia, but with all due respect it was enough of an effort to nominate this group of articles without trying to add all similar ones! The logic of opposing this nomination because you want similar articles deleted is lost on me. Cordless Larry (talk) 00:11, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Your point is OK. I am changing vote to neutral.--Rjecina (talk) 00:19, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

*KEEP OR MERGE also Naming Conventions - A large percentage of people in this debate seem to be focused only on the name of the article and not its actual content, many of the articles may not be named to peoples likings, but the truth is the terms above can be justified through the use of Asian British, Black, British, Chinese British, White British etc in the actual United Kingdom census, many people say the other way round is more common in the UK, others think a title such as Asians in the United Kingdom would be better, this is an argument in itself, and in this case it is actually more important to be deciding whether to improve, merge or delete the articles listed above. Each has their negatives, but I believe it would be in Wikipedias best interests to keep them or possibly merge them into subtitles of larger groups....deleting is not an option, and each subgroup has its own distinct culture etc (even within the Caribbean countries, ethnic makeup etc are considerably varied), and although there is an article of the overall British African Caribbean community, the sub articles should be kept, and improved as well as being better sourced (there are many articles across Wikipedia which are more or less identical to these apart from they are representing ethnic groups in the USA, Canada, Australia, Brazil.....) Also I believe that the following articles should definately stay due to their notability and the large populations they represent, I am sure many will agree:

  • Afghan, Burmese, Brazilian, Colombian, Ecuadorian, Nigerian, Egyptian, Filipino, Japanese, Lebanese, New Zealander, Somali, Yemeni (which is probably the best citied out of all the articles), amongst possible others

Stevvvv4444 (talk) 19:13, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"The truth is the terms above can be justified through the use of Asian British, Black, British, Chinese British, White British etc." - those are all recognised terms and I'm not proposing that any of those articles be deleted. But terms such as "Georgian British", "Croatian British" etc. are pure neologisms. Cordless Larry (talk) 00:06, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep Articles about Ethnic Groups, these help show the diversity of the UK.