Talk:Cardiff Airport

Zoom Cardiff to Vancouver flights

There has been some discussion today over whether Zoom Airlines operate a scheduled service from Cardiff to Vancouver (as a seasonal route). There is no evidence of this route existing next summer or any time in the future on the Zoom Website. I have therefore removed any reference to this service on the airport page. A proper reference will need to be found if this destination is to be added here. SempreVolando (talk) 20:16, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

This route has now been added to the Zoom website and I have also added the start date and seasonal nature of the service to the destinations page. SempreVolando (talk) 16:21, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Removal of 2007 onwards section

I have removed the '2007 onwards' section which was written inappropriately (proseline) and contained many non-encyclopedic news-style items which do not belong on a Wikipedia page. As this is not a news service only noteworthy items have been retained and moved into the History section where they belong. SempreVolando (talk) 16:09, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Good job! --Cheesy Mike (talk) 17:22, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks CM, everyone please feel free to continue to edit and update the article, then perhaps we can get it to 'B' class on the quality scale. Shouldn't take too much more work. SempreVolando (talk) 01:43, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Flybe

Jersey is a new route for BE from cardiff but why have they not annouced it. You can book it on their website but can they expect many bookings with no announcment? By the way i may have missed the annoucment so sorry if i have. - Planenut321 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Planenut321 (talk • contribs) 09:42, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

You're right - there has been no announcement by Flybe or Cardiff Airport, even though tickets for this route have now gone on sale. It's strange to launch a route so quietly, perhaps they will announce it formally in the New Year. SempreVolando (talk) 14:49, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Application only at the moment, you have 14 days to complain before it is approved! - Flybe Limited to operate a scheduled air service between Cardiff and Jersy, The permit would be effective from 1 March 2008. [1] MilborneOne (talk) 15:16, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks MilborneOne, that explains why their Aberdeen and Doncaster routes show details "to be announced" in the Flybe press release, but they are selling tickets already on all three routes. SempreVolando (talk) 15:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Flyforbeans Routes

Sorry Planenut321 this page is for discussing the Cardif International Airport article it is not a forum. When the airline is licensed and announces routes then they will be added as appropriate. Perhaps you should ask at Talk:Flyforbeans. MilborneOne (talk) 20:28, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Please do not keep removing my comment above, it originally answered a comment by Planenut321 which he/she later deleted, although it would have been better to strike it out. Please read guidelines on talkpages about not deleting others comments. MilborneOne (talk) 11:25, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Excel

Do they still fly to cardiff? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Planenut321 (talk • contribs) 08:56, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

From what I can see they have no flying program at CWL for summer 2008 or into winter 2008 / 09. SempreVolando (talk) 13:34, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Excel will be flying from Cardiff in Winter 08/09, operating on behalf of Thomas Cook Airlines (Plaincrazy (talk) 09:58, 31 August 2008 (UTC))

Major Airport Status

I do not believe Cardiff Airport is a major UK airport as this article previously stated. The airport is only the 19th largest in the UK and the major UK airports are Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted and Manchester. All other airports are much smaller and are rightly not referred to as major UK airports on Wikipedia. Please do not change the current text for this article until as many of us as possible can contribute to this discussion and come to an agreement on the appropriate wording to use. Thank you. SempreVolando (talk) 16:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not saying it's in line with those airports, I just think that the definition is wider. I'd consider Bristol, Cardiff, Edinburgh etc. major airports (in contrast to say Newquay, Plymouth, Durham Tees Valley) Welshleprechaun (talk) 16:20, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I still feel the wording major UK airport is misleading and gives it too much weight, suggesting an airport much bigger than this one. I would consider that wording along the lines of principal airport for Wales is adequate. The introduction to the article already emphasises the wide area the airport serves and that it is the only airport in Wales offering international flights, and I believe most people would interpret major UK airport as one of the largest in the UK, which it is not. I'd like to hear the opinions of other editors on this topic so we can reach consensus. SempreVolando (talk) 16:33, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Would you agree on a key UK airport or a large UK airport? Welshleprechaun (talk) 17:07, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I would rather wait for a few more opinions here, but if none are forthcoming in the next few days would be inclined to agree with a key UK airport. SempreVolando (talk) 18:15, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

As I dont agree that the term major UK airport, or even a large UK airport are factually correct I thought that is the main airport for Wales was a resonable comprise. MilborneOne (talk) 20:29, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Agree on "main airport for Wales". It certainly isn't a major or large airport. --Cheesy Mike (talk) 22:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

With no further opinions on this matter here I believe we have consensus that main airport for Wales is the sufficient and most proper statement. As the article already features this wording no change is necessary. SempreVolando (talk) 12:20, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Aer Arann

Do they still do the Cardiff-Galway and Nantes routes? Its not on their website anymore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Planenut321 (talk • contribs) 14:07, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Zoom Cardiff to Toronto route

IP User 213.210.40.35 continues to remove the seasonal note relating to this route, however the airline schedule ([2]) clearly shows the CWL-YYZ route is seasonal (May to October only). The route is therefore seasonal as it does not operate year-round. I have reverted the change, would the editor involved please discuss the issue here rather than continue to change the article. Thank you. SempreVolando (talk) 18:14, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Barcelona Is Back

WW are re starting the route in May! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.11.194.107 (talk) 20:48, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

And WILL SOMEONE STOP DELETING IT OF THE PAGE! IT IS STARTING! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.11.194.107 (talk) 19:37, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Route map

Image:RM.jpg

Cardiff International Airport Ltd. have no problem with this map appearing on Wikipedia. Pete (talk) 10:28, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

User who removed it has been warned. If it happens again, s/he will be reported Welshleprechaun (talk) 10:54, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Removed the route map as it is unclear and distorted even when enlarged. Suggest if a route map is needed a better quality one is sourced. It could also be deleted as it appears to have the wrong copyright as User:Planenut321 has claimed he holds the copyright but User:Peterphillips statement indicates it belongs to Cardiff airport. MilborneOne (talk) 11:45, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Agree with removal of the map, very poor quality which is not sufficient for encyclopedic standard. A much better map, like the one on the Edinburgh Airport page would be acceptable, but not this one. SempreVolando (talk) 11:47, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

But I do have copyright of it, as i created it! Planenut321 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Planenut321 (talk • contribs) 08:05, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Image:Route Map.jpg

I feel the map looks horrendous and does not do the article any justice at all, it would be nice to move it off the 'Start' class, but something like that cetainly would mean it would not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by User:4engines4longhaul (talk • contribs) 12:38, 6 August 2008

Consensus here is clearly not to include this poor quality image on the page, however the IP user continues to refuse to discuss their point here and simply reverts any attempts to remove it. I have asked the user again to discuss the issue here. SempreVolando (talk) 18:11, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Well pretty much every airport page has a map like this, it may 'look horendous' to you but untill a new one could be found it should stay, cause i think it is an important part of the article. And you have had now problem with it until 1/2 year after its added just as soon as someone makes a fuss you all join in, it aint been a problem till now????. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.11.166.211 (talk) 08:56, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Right, the map looks awful, end of story. However, it does contain valuable information, so cannot just be deleted and not replaced. Those who want to delete it, do something useful and find/make a better quality image. Until a better quality image is made, the one that is there stays. Stop edit warring over this, stop being lazy and just deleting without offering an alternative, and strive to improve the article, rather than just argue over petty things. Nouse4aname (talk) 13:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

And one further point, I do not see a "clear consensus" to remove the map, this is not a vote. Nouse4aname (talk) 13:10, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Minor point most of the comments above relate to Image:RM.jpg, which is not the same image under discussion. I have added sub-headings to mark the change in image. The image has only been in the article since June 2008 (and has been removed for some of that period) which is not very long in wiki terms. The number of time the image has been removed by different users clearly shows that the image is questionable by some users, although that is no reason to edit war and not discuss it here. The image has a number of problems, it is not clear what it is trying to show, dots on a map are destinations not routes. It shows previous routes which are not considered encyclopedic and are not listed in the article so thay may be issues of original research and verifiability. It only show the UK and Ireland although the airport has other routes. No it is not a vote and we should gather more opinions on this page to gain a concensus either way but in my opinion the image adds no value to the article in its present form. MilborneOne (talk) 14:02, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah, two images eh, now that confuses things! The reason I think that it should remain is basically if it gets deleted there will be no incentive for people to find a better alternative, whereas if a poor quality image stays there, hopefully it will drive someone to make/find a better one? That's the theory anyway! Nouse4aname (talk) 14:41, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Please dont assume that we have a concensus either way, only five users have commented, three against not adding and two for adding the image. Numerous others have challenged the addition of the image by reverting it in the article. The onus is still on those that want to add it to the article to explain why it adds value to the article. If no others comment as it stands the concensus is not to add the image. But this discussion had only been going a few days so we should wait and gather other opinions, either way. If users keep adding and removing the image a request to protect the page may be suitable until the discussion is concluded. MilborneOne (talk) 13:27, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Thomas Cook Airlines

An IP user has changed the name of Thomas Cook Airlines to Thomas Cook Airlines UK and has been reverted a number of times. Please note that Thomas Cook Airlines UK Limited is the name of the airline that has a Civil Aviation Authority Operating Licence and that the IP was changing it in good faith not vandalism. It is also useful to tell the difference between Thomas Cook Airlines Belgium and Thomas Cook Airlines Scandinavia. Perhaps editors can come to some consensus on this change and not keep reverting. Thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 18:58, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Well I think their trading name should be used. Plus it links to the UK airline page. What name is used on other airport pages from which it flies. Also I don't consider it good faith repeatedly reverting without giving reason. WL (talk) 21:20, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

First Choice and BH Air

Can Fanrail stop editing the new route from FCA to Caso- De Campo, if you go on thomsonfly.com you will see the route is operting for a while in 2009 with a FCA aircraft.

With BH air the flight to Varna does do via Borgous so please stop editing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Planenut321 (talk • contribs) 13:13, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Can I please state that the airport is officially called La Romana [LRM] and therefore this should be stated rather than Casa de Campo which is a resort close to the airport - we cannot justify placing resorts there instead of the official destination airport! added by User:fanrail 23 June

Thomas Cook - Antayla

This new route is listed on Mytravel.com, its new for summer 2009. Please dont remove.(Plaincrazy (talk) 14:23, 28 June 2008 (UTC))

AND on the other hand, Onur Air are starting the Antalya next month [seasonal]! So please do not delete this either - I am my own source of information, because I work at CWL!! (User:fanrailuk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.108.161 (talk) 20:54, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Please read WP:RS as to why you aren't a reliable source. Nouse4aname (talk) 20:59, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Whoever keeps removing it - I think you'll find that the Antalya route by Onur Air starts on 9 July and contunies every Wednesday until 24 September on behalf of Goldtrail holidays! - Sourcing the Summer 2008 timetable at cwlfly.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.108.161 (talk) 11:42, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

bmibaby's future

Can someone elighten me as to why a 'stirring' newspaper report about an airline cutting back in the winter [notably most airlines do this every winter] makes UK Airport News Info {was link 6} a reliable website for information regarding airlines'/airports' futures which, may I add, is affiliated with no official sources??

For this reason, I am removing the 'bmibaby is cutting back' section from the future until someone can provide actual proof, from a reliable source, that the airline is not doing what it normally does and addresses a shorter operating schedule for the winter?

Those in disagreeance or otherwise, please comment. fanrailuk (talk)

TNT

Shannon is a cargo destination from EGFF. On the fids it flies to Shannon about 4 times a week. So will Plaincrazy stop editing it.- Planenut321 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.11.115.202 (talk) 18:43, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes it does fly to SNN at the moment but it does not pick up any cargo from CWL to SNN, it just drops off as TNT dont have enough aircraft. If this is the case then why dont we add London Gatwick as a destination for Zoom airlines as this drops off passengers and then goes onto LGW without picking up pax from cwl (Plaincrazy (talk) 20:08, 17 July 2008 (UTC))

Ferrying or positioning flights are not worthy of inclusion in the article. To include such temporary arrangements would make an encyclopedic appraoch nonsensical. I have deleted them. If you wish to re-instate them, please make a proper Wikipedia-based case. Pete (talk) 23:30, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

OHY Antalya

This route is not operating for Summer 2008, it is listed on the CWL timetable but has been cancelled by the tour operator. Please stop adding it back in. (Plaincrazy (talk) 20:10, 17 July 2008 (UTC))

Routes

I have changed the format of the destination list. I feel it is easier to read and looks better in general. Any other opinions?? ( Planenut321 (talk) 13:19, 12 August 2008 (UTC))

I agree, it is a much nicer setup, just one thing - I think the remarks column could be a little wider as to not make the table so long, it could be 'bunched' a lot better. (fanrailuk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.108.161 (talk) 09:20, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

The old layout was MUCH better Shazz0r (talk) 11:59, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree and think we should go back to the old layout. (cardiffnow)

Don't like destination lists in tables at all, no reason for this article to use a format other than that outlined at WP:AIRPORTS (i.e. the previous, standard layout). SempreVolando (talk) 14:35, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

In the process of reverting it back to how it should be. Shazz0r (talk) 17:01, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Done Shazz0r (talk) 17:11, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I feel that the new arrangement, given the 'tabs' is a lot clearer. Anyone who feels otherwise, please comment and rearrange, [fanrailuk] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.108.161 (talk) 00:20, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Once again, redone the layout. please only use the layout as detailed in WP:Airports Shazz0r (talk) 16:38, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Zoom Airlines

On the 28th August Zoom has stopped services from Cardiff to Vancouver and Toronto. (Planenut321 (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.243.51.209 (talk) 17:56, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it warrants a 'Recently Stopped Routes' section of its own, I think just the removal of it from the Scheduled flights section and a mention in the history is enough. (fanrailuk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.108.161 (talk) 21:10, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Basic Info

We are missing some core data here. What is the actual runway length at CWL, how many a/c stands are available, what is the passenger throughput capacity of the terminal, what is the overall area of the airport's owned land, what's the car parking capacity on-airport and, as far as planning permission allows, off-airport; how much airport-related land/activity is committed in its immediate environment and so on. How much factual information can we assemble here? Pete (talk) 00:41, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

WP:BOLD - go fix it! Runway length is in the infobox. Terminal capacity seems pretty well covered in the stats section. --TimTay (talk) 07:36, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Most of the basic data is in the infobox, some of the examples you gave are not particularly encyclopedic (like car-parking capacity) so should not be included. No problem with adding more data but please make sure it is relevant and notable this is an encyclopedia not a travel guide. MilborneOne (talk)

Ad-Hoc Charters

Would Joey Boeing 777 stop adding Aer Lingus' ad-hoc rugby charter: these have been removed as they are not official routes from the airport - yes okay, one could buy a seat on the flight - but in this case it is not needed and can therefore be seen as an advertisement.

If the group rejects/disgrees then can I suggest you at the various other ad-hoc rugby flights by TOM to DUB, MON to FCO, BE to FCO...and the list goes on! Fanrailuk (talk) 19:46, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Name Change

Should this page now be called Cardiff Airport with a redirect at Cardiff International Airport to reflect the name change? Alecs casnewydd (talk) 00:30, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with this, I have made the necessary changes within the text and added the information regarding the name change in the history section, I believe the main page name should be changed and also the new logo added. Fanrailuk (talk) 00:37, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

Cardiff International Airport → Cardiff Airport — The airport has changed its name, dropping the word "International", so the article needs to be renamed — TimTay (talk) 12:44, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

UPDATE: I used the wrong template to request the move. This is not a controversial name change it is a simple, change request which needs administrator assistance. Don't bother adding any more votes or discussion to the section below. The move should go ahead once an administrator gets around to it. Sorry for the confusion. See Wikipedia:Requested_moves#Uncontroversial_requests for any update on the move. --TimTay (talk) 13:29, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Support I am in agreeance as per above comment. Fanrailuk (talk) 12:47, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
• Support As I proposed the move maybe my support is a given, but just in case it isn't I'll explicitly state my support here. --TimTay (talk) 12:51, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
• Support: The name change is confirmed on the airport's website. I dare say most people simply refer to it as Cardiff Airport anyway, so it would probably qualify under WP:COMMONNAME as well. Bettia (bring on the trumpets!) 12:54, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

• This is a factual change caused by the re-branding and is supported by a reference I would suggest it doesnt need a vote and can just be moved. MilborneOne (talk) 13:11, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

A simple move doesn't work, I tried that, so it had to be requested instead using the administrator moves process. Part of that process involves setting up a discussion here. --TimTay (talk) 13:15, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Please note that although the airport's name has changed, the railway station serving it remains Rhoose Cardiff International Airport railway station so please don't remove International from it as Arriva will continue to refer to it and sign it as such. Welshleprechaun (talk) 19:34, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Flags

Let's discuss the flag matter here to prevent an edit war. Welshleprechaun (talk) 18:40, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

-Hasn't been any problems for 1 year, on other pages, people may not know where these cities are (helps with the term encyclopedia), looks better and should be left as it was.